United are bottom of the league, but are you prepared to see United go backward to go forward?

amolbhatia50k

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Yes I am. But only if the club genuinely back ETH. He will struggle to implement his vision with the useless lot carrying over their nonsense from the Ole era.

It would also be nice if we gave him a bit more support than "well go for your targets". The feck do we have so many employees for.

Personally I've been crying out for modernizing our football for years and us messing up while learning that is acceptable to me. But it won't actually result in anything positive while we have a keeper who can't pass or fecking Dalot or Shaw who strolls about the pitch like he's completed football or something.

So yeah, ready for the pain for the gain but with our board and owners I have little hope for gain.
 

croadyman

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To be honest, over the last 10 years how much have they let the manager spend? About £1.3 billion.

That’s more than Man City, Barca and PSG. So to just call the Glazers parasites is totally ridiculous.
Ridiculous post
 

DeGea’sFeet

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Both in terms of performances and results there are no real positives to take from our first two matches. In simple terms we are P2 D0 L2 with a GD of -5. Do I think we are going to get relegated this season? No more than I expect Brentford to remain in the top four. It is a sobering thought that sometimes you need to go backwards to go forwards. If that principle applies to United then we should expect that this is going to be a long, painful, frustrating and scrappy season. One where we may well see the likes of Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea pull away from us quite significantly. United are in a fight and the first order of business for ETH is to ensure that the players that he picks have the stomach for the fight. Clearly, some are simply not up for that.

Would you be willing to see United go backwards this season if it means that we can go forward next season?
Such a ridiculous post, almost as if it’s written by one of the Glazers. What do you mean by going backwards? How far backwards is a team supposed to go?

Off course we know it’s going to be difficult, of course we expect defeats and even battering along the way… but people are not stupid. They can tell when a team is in the making. It doesn’t take long to see the signs both on and off the pitch, even if the results are not what’s expected.
 

The_Midfielder

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I don't see us winning the next few games
Liverpool -- No way we win
Southampton away-- I don't recall us winning the last few seasons
Leicester away-- I don't see is winning

That is how my confidence ha. Right now
 

OrcaFat

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There's only 38 games in the Premier League though? If the players keep serving up their form over the last 28 games (long enough to be considered their level) for the next 36 we'll finish the season on 36 points - going by last year we'd have finished 1 point a head of a relegated team.

That's without seeing these mentally fragile players going through a battle, for years we've picked up our points when the pressure was off (no fans in stadium, no title hope, no top 4 hope) but as soon as the pressure dialled up a little (again, top 4 battles, semi finals, finals etc) they wet themselves.

It would genuinely be interesting to see these players go through a relegation scrap. :lol:
I think you might not have included draws in your calculations (?) but I take the point and I agree, if we’re not going to be challenging at the top it would be amusing to see the carnage play out at the bottom!
 

Fearthegrimp

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Seriously, looking at our upcoming fixtures, can anyone see where our first points are coming? Southampton away possibly but given out away form atm I would hold out much hope. Tragic times...
 

yumtum

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I think you might not have included draws in your calculations (?) but I take the point and I agree, if we’re not going to be challenging at the top it would be amusing to see the carnage play out at the bottom!
You're correct! Insomniac problems :lol:
 

justsomebloke

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Both in terms of performances and results there are no real positives to take from our first two matches. In simple terms we are P2 D0 L2 with a GD of -5. Do I think we are going to get relegated this season? No more than I expect Brentford to remain in the top four. It is a sobering thought that sometimes you need to go backwards to go forwards. If that principle applies to United then we should expect that this is going to be a long, painful, frustrating and scrappy season. One where we may well see the likes of Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea pull away from us quite significantly. United are in a fight and the first order of business for ETH is to ensure that the players that he picks have the stomach for the fight. Clearly, some are simply not up for that.

Would you be willing to see United go backwards this season if it means that we can go forward next season?
The question is more if there is any other choice. The answer to which in my opinion will be "no", unless they can turn it around in the next couple of games. There are only so many times this group of players can fail catastrophically before it becomes inevitable that you have to break it up. It's not even fundamentally about the "why" any more. It's just very close to becoming obvious that for whatever reason, we've got a crew that amounts to something much, much less than the sum of their parts. Sometimes things are simple, and if this goes on that's one of those times: When something has failed again and again and again, for a long time and under different circumstances, that means it doesn't work and can't be fixed. I don't see anything to suggest the players think it can be fixed either.

What you then have to do is gut the core group, and move out at least some of the key regulars. Otherwise, you will never bring back belief. Adding new players to the group won't fix a dysfunctional collective, it's just more wood to throw on the funeral pyre. Maguire, whose captaincy is irretrievably associated with the whole mess, has to be moved out. Ronaldo naturally should not be around - it makes no sense from any perspective, and won't be good for either him or the club. Shaw is another natural name to point to, but really more or less everyone bar the new arrivals, Lindelof, Varane, Elanga and maybe Sancho would merit consideration. Ideally, you'd like to see at least 2-3 important players out, and good replacements brought in.

The trouble of course is that while this would have been a workable project if undertaken in June, we are now close to the deadline and it's really too late for a shakeup of this sort. It also won't help that all any prospective signee can see is a failing megaclub in total and obvious disarray, and no evident way out of it - the sort of club that sucks in a career, chews it up and spits you out. How hard is it to find better options than signing for such a club? Which means that we will almost certainly be stuck essentially with this current team until, at the very least, January. And the way things are looking so far, that will mean going backwards this season, but without the "in order to go forward later" bit.

Still, I keep telling myself it's only two games. It can still change. It's just very, very hard to see a reason it would.
 

Gurtej

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Absolutely no problem!! But not under the current ownership!!

I think Glazers will sell given continuous noises and performance on the field!! They have milked it completely and now it will be difficult for us to attract or deliver financial performance in a long run with the way things are going and I am sure they know that!!

You need to sell when the value of the brand is highest or still close to high!! Our value will decline (doubt it will go up from here) once we start negotiating big commercial deals over next 5 years, so even from business side it makes complete sense for glazers to sell now!! And they will make a great return over their initial investment!!

I just hope whoever takes over has a clue on how to run football club!!
 

Carl

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If I was offered relegation and a guarantee of the Glazers leaving the club then I'd snatch your hand off.
 

trevor newnham

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Who would have the money to buy us anyway? I would hate to see the Saudis or the like take over. We have spent millions over the last ten years and generally bought underwhelming. The kids look promising but the under 21s just got dubbed by Crystal Palace so the rot is deep in the club. To go down? No club is too big to go down but it would be disastrous and I really cannot see any benefit. I still believe we can get back to some semblance of success ( and at the moment that just seems to be top ten) but there will have to be some major surgery.
 

Ayoba

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Honestly the only way out of this mess is the Saudis! Who else can buy us?
 

James35

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Our last 38 premier league games

P38 W15 D9 L14 F52 A61 Points 54.

As each week goes on and with the form which has gradually become worse, it is 100% not out of the realms of possibility that we could be in a relegation battle this season.

I’m seriously concerned as I do not see us having more than a point after 6 games, which would have us on 46 points after 38 games. We need to improve and fast and unfortunately I don’t see EtH lasting the season either.
 

youmeletsfly

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As long as players like Shaw, Maguire, Rashy, AWB, hell even Sancho, will be here, I'm happy to see the club go backwards, don't even care.

I can't stand these English prima donna players not even being arsed to run and being dumber than a second coat of paint.

On the other side, you have the other sassy prima donnas, like Bruno and Ronnie who can't play football for their lives but complain like pussies after each play.

I can't wait for the day these idiots will no longer be here. This club needs a moral reset and it should start from the field right to the top executives. If, meanwhile, we finish 16th, I do not give a single flying feck.
 

Oranges038

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To be honest, over the last 10 years how much have they let the manager spend? About £1.3 billion.

That’s more than Man City, Barca and PSG. So to just call the Glazers parasites is totally ridiculous.
Spent over a billion on players and pay some of the highest wages on football. I read somewhere last year that there was over 1bn spent on transfers, 1bn spent on debt repayments and took 200m in dividends.

Utd is like the public service, spending stupid money on over paid slackers, hiring people who just haven't got the skills required to do things right. All ths while ignoring basic issues like club infrastructure and facilties and letting buildings go to wreck and ruin. To which their only answer in the end will be to build really expensive new ones that end up piling even more debt on top of debt. Throwing good money after bad as the expression goes.

They just don't know how to run a football club properly and it doesn't like seem they ever will.
 

Boondog

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It seems to me that the team's problem has been a lack of a shrewd team builder in the room. So the ownership should get behind ETH and use him in that role by listening to his analysis on players and have player acquisition aligned with the traits he is seeking.

Also I do not believe it is necessary for things to get worse before they get better. They either hired the right coach or they did not. If they did, they will be rewarded with a sudden change in the success rate of additions which would mean improvement going forward. Perhaps they will also be rewarded by players showing better as they feel comfortable in his system and usage too. Support him as he installs the new culture and team discipline.

If he is not the right coach time will tell. But I think this is unlikely. I think the key is the ownership getting behind him. Just that. Then maybe the value of the franchise is raised enough that they will sell and we can all be happy with the result.
 
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fastwalker

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Such a ridiculous post, almost as if it’s written by one of the Glazers. What do you mean by going backwards? How far backwards is a team supposed to go? Off course we know it’s going to be difficult, of course we expect defeats and even battering along the way… but people are not stupid. They can tell when a team is in the making. It doesn’t take long to see the signs both on and off the pitch, even if the results are not what’s expected.
How long have you been a Man Utd fan exactly? I am guessing that you have never heard of Sir Alex Ferguson then? In his first four years in change he finished 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th. Thereafter he finished 6th and 2nd, before finally finishing 1st. It literally took SAF four years of inconsistent seasons, before he was able to right the ship and produce three consistent year on year finishes culminating in a Premier League title win. I am old enough to remember that in the 1989/90 season there were calls for his head. At that time no-one could possibly have imagined the greatest period of sustained success of any English club was around the corner.

The problems at our club are legion. We have a bloated wage bill that does absolutely nothing to incentive performance and means that we find it near on impossible to sell players on. We still seem to have a powerful dressing room, which is something that Sir Alex never tolerated during his time as manager. Our recruitment strategy is nothing short of an absolute joke and nowhere near the slickness of a Liverpool or City. We were once seen as a destination club and now we have top players openly choosing to go elsewhere or stay where they are. Our ground is literally crumbling around us. Not only that but on the pitch, the manager's playing philosophy has clearly not bedded in and will take time to do do. That's without even mentioning the Glazers.

If the record of our greatest manager is anything to go by, yes things may actually need to get very much worse before they get any better
 

DeGea’sFeet

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How long have you been a Man Utd fan exactly? I am guessing that you have never heard of Sir Alex Ferguson then? In his first four years in change he finished 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th. Thereafter he finished 6th and 2nd, before finally finishing 1st. It literally took SAF four years of inconsistent seasons, before he was able to right the ship and produce three consistent year on year finishes culminating in a Premier League title win. I am old enough to remember that in the 1989/90 season there were calls for his head. At that time no-one could possibly have imagined the greatest period of sustained success of any English club was around the corner.

The problems at our club are legion. We have a bloated wage bill that does absolutely nothing to incentive performance and means that we find it near on impossible to sell players on. We still seem to have a powerful dressing room, which is something that Sir Alex never tolerated during his time as manager. Our recruitment strategy is nothing short of an absolute joke and nowhere near the slickness of a Liverpool or City. We were once seen as a destination club and now we have top players openly choosing to go elsewhere or stay where they are. Our ground is literally crumbling around us. Not only that but on the pitch, the manager's playing philosophy has clearly not bedded in and will take time to do do. That's without even mentioning the Glazers.

If the record of our greatest manager is anything to go by, yes things may actually need to get very much worse before they get any better
Our wage bill is as bloated as the post above which words are recurring like a Phil Jones injury amongst some fans , and outdated like a Mike Phelan training session
 

croadyman

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How long have you been a Man Utd fan exactly? I am guessing that you have never heard of Sir Alex Ferguson then? In his first four years in change he finished 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th. Thereafter he finished 6th and 2nd, before finally finishing 1st. It literally took SAF four years of inconsistent seasons, before he was able to right the ship and produce three consistent year on year finishes culminating in a Premier League title win. I am old enough to remember that in the 1989/90 season there were calls for his head. At that time no-one could possibly have imagined the greatest period of sustained success of any English club was around the corner.

The problems at our club are legion. We have a bloated wage bill that does absolutely nothing to incentive performance and means that we find it near on impossible to sell players on. We still seem to have a powerful dressing room, which is something that Sir Alex never tolerated during his time as manager. Our recruitment strategy is nothing short of an absolute joke and nowhere near the slickness of a Liverpool or City. We were once seen as a destination club and now we have top players openly choosing to go elsewhere or stay where they are. Our ground is literally crumbling around us. Not only that but on the pitch, the manager's playing philosophy has clearly not bedded in and will take time to do do. That's without even mentioning the Glazers.

If the record of our greatest manager is anything to go by, yes things may actually need to get very much worse before they get any better
This is a different era so please don't compare
 

fastwalker

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Our wage bill is as bloated as the post above which words are recurring like a Phil Jones injury amongst some fans , and outdated like a Mike Phelan training session
You are incapable of providing a sensible response then? Well, at least you know your limitations.
 

InTheHole

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A lot of people are talking about relegation like it's an opportunity to rid ourselves of the leaches and just reset. But implicitly I think people believe we'd bounce straight back up and I really doubt we would. We need to be very very careful.
 

Ceteris

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What Ranick suggested was that we actually buy players who are hungry to play football not just for us but for their own personal and professional motives. Someone like Malcia

Traditionally United fans would see certain players as not been our calibre of players
What's our calibre these days?

In the past not a single player from Brighton or Brentford would be deemed good enough for us but right now I would take some of them because they will work their socks off for the team

We are still stuck chasing FDJ when there are good players out there that we can build a team with.

We have players who don't want to even run on the pitch, we can't get close to opposition players to tackle. We need to earn the right to play which we are not doing.

Until we change our recruitment policy and not act like playing football manager with £1b to spend we will keep seeing results like these all season

Why can't we approach Brighton for Caicedo? Or players of that ilk
 

RedRob

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I don't think relegation is a possibility. 6th or 7th is most likely.
For the first time, I'm looking at our fixture list and struggling to see what I would consider our next nailed-on win. Every team who played yesterday showed enough fight and spirit to demonstrate why they're PL teams. All except for one, that is; we're playing with the same sense of surrender that a relegated-in-waiting team does.
Is relegation the most likely outcome? No, but 6th or 7th is so far above the current standards that it's scary.
 

dinostar77

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We've lost our last 7 away games on the trot. Taken 4 points from a possible 24 points. We have to play one of the strongest teams in europe in our next league fixture. Which will probably leave us with 0 points after the first three games.

Then we have a six pointer against southampton. How much lower can we go?!?
 

GMoore23

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We've been going backwards since 2013 and maybe even since 2009.
I think that's long enough. If we'd have gotten Conte in we'd have been moving forward instantly. That's the effect an elite manager can have.
 

sullydnl

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At this point I'm already writing this season off in terms of league position. We're not finishing in the top four so what difference between 5th and 10th?

I just want to see progress by the end of the season, so we end looking like a coherent team that needs to upgrade key positions to get better rather than a mess of a team that seems to need to upgrade nearly everyone.
 

DeGea’sFeet

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You are incapable of providing a sensible response then? Well, at least you know your limitations.
You think your post is sensible, and original thread, is in anyway sensible and relevant to the modern day?

1) In your OP you talk about going backwards, but set no parameters or signs of progress as we go backwards to give hope. So by your standards we could get relegated (I’m not saying that will happen) 3 years in a row and on the fourth year get promoted and you’ll start screaming “ see progress”

2) Later on your start harping on about SAF taking 5 years to win a title… and you point out his league finishes. We’ve been hearing this argument for the past 9 years.

Now let’s look at the facts. That was over 30 years ago. SAF took over a team of drunks. It’s probably no coincidence that our rise coincided with Liverpool’s long term decline, Souness really ruined them, and Arsenal’s mid term decline.

If tomorrow Klopp and Pep leave, there will be Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, soon Newcastle… and don’t forget at least one of those two, most likely City will still carry on as normal.

So let’s look at the similarities: the board. Martin Edwoords in the 80s faced similar criticism as the Glazers. He was no way as bad and didn’t put the club into debt but he was known for being stingy and taking money out the club.

So tell me going backwards before you go forwards jump out a plane without a parachute and call it progress guy, what signs of progress do you want to see while we go backwards to make you believe ?

Klopp took 4 years to win a trophy, but everyone could see he was making progress.
 

GBBQ

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My immense dislike of the thoughts of us being owned by an oligarch or questionable regime has really had me being as optimistic about the Glazers as possible. I do see huge benefits to being run as a business but being honest the Galzers are clueless.

SAF papered over a lot of cracks with his abilities as a manager and I don’t think we’ve ever had a proper footballing structure in place. But this was the season to change that. A fresh start with the right appointments and bringing in the right players. Backing the manager fully and investing to get United back to the top. They’ve failed miserably to invest or put people in charge who can make these decisions. We’re still squandering money.

They should do the honourable thing and sell the club to owners who will secure the long term future of the club, having what happens on the pitch being the main objective of their ownership. This club has never cost the Glazer family a single penny and if they were to sell for 2 billion to the right consortium (as opposed to the highest bidder) they’d all make a huge chunk of profit and put the club in good hands moving forward as a massive good will gesture / apology.
 

DeGea’sFeet

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They should do the financially smart thing and sell the club
corrected that for you.

Really now it comes down to have they milked the club enough, will we still be getting top level sponsorships deals, and will the value of the club and revenue start decreasing.
 

stoinz

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hard to say. To me there are positives to both. If we do go backwards, it will set up back a decade or so with players leaving, managers going but most importantly is a probable change of ownership.

If we do go forward and that is equally likely as we have a manager who proven to be able to learn from mistakes and we have youth side brimming with enthusiasm. Minimum top 10 quality. And we do have some good players in our midst. DDG may not be the keeper we want but he is not a priority problem. For all our priority problems - LB, CD, CM we have someone either a new signing or a youth player to take its place.

So let's say we get no more new signings and we drop Shaw, Maguire, Mc Fred, Bruno, Rashford.

we end up with something like
DDG
Dalot Varane Martinez Malacia
Garner/Iqbal/Savage
Eriksson Hannibal/Iqbal
Sancho Ronaldo Gernacho

Not too bad imo. Anyway sorry for derailing the thread. For me I always want to see the club do well but I can see much benefits if we go backwards.
 

Nytram Shakes

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100% happy for us to take steps backwards if i could see that we were making decisions that will allow us to take steps forward in the future.

The problem is we arn't making those decisions. When Ten Hag was first mentioned as coach, realistic people understood it would only work if he had a support structure to give him a squad to coach.

That isn't happening and wont happen unitll people like Murtough are replaced.

So yeah happy to go backwards so we can go forwards, but all I see so far is us making decisions to sent us further backwards
 

Eyepopper

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To be honest, over the last 10 years how much have they let the manager spend? About £1.3 billion.

That’s more than Man City, Barca and PSG. So to just call the Glazers parasites is totally ridiculous.
No a more accurate analogy would be let's say you earn £500 a week, and on pay day I turn up at your place and tell you I've remortgaged your house and I own it now, but you'll have to pay that mortgage, oh and I won't be doing anything other than minimal maintenance, I don't care if the roofs leaking. You don't get a say in any of this new arrangement, you do get to spend the rest of your wages but I will have my mate Richie move in and decide what you can and can't spend it on, he's totally clueless by the way, but he's a nice chap, loves a pint.

Oh, and by the way, you now owe me £25 a week!

Okay? Good!