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2022-23 Performances

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kthanksbye

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yamo123x said:
If that's your major criticism of Maguire then get over it FFS !!

I find myself defending Maguire on here alot amidst the torrents of abuse he receives, most of which is personal and uncalled for.

He is a centre half, he wasnt bought for his searing pace, brilliant reading of the game and progressive football. He was a old fashioned centre back, good in the air, physical and always good against us in defensive teams, whether it be for Sheff Utd in the youth cup, Hull or Leicester. Ole bought him to play in a counter attacking team and to sit back, which was ideal for Maguire to be part of.

The price tag was too high, but this was not his choice, he was made captain and up until Ole rushed him back against leicester last season was a steadying influence for us with the occasional feck up like any player has.
The abuse he got after the Leicester game snowballed and he became an easy target, no wonder his confidence was shattered, he never recovered. Idiots were even blaming him for goals conceded when he wasnt even on the pitch.....Agree he didnt help himself gesturing on England duty but that was his way of hitting back at the critics who hound him daily.

Im not gonna sit here and say he is a great captain, he is clearly not, but who else is there? Please dont tell me the petulant underperforming Bruno is, or CR7 who so desperately wants to leave us. The social media stuff he psots is managed by the club, the club push this and he is the captain... so he has to comment..again some of these comments after bad results havent helped.

As a centre half myself who played at a good level, I watch Maguire and see he has zero defensive protection in front of him and poor full backs either side. He doesnt struggle with England when there are better players around him. He was superb in the euros and made team of the tournament.... as a team we are so easy to get at from an attacking point of view, easiest team to play against in the league say neville and other pundits.

Fast forward to today, so many fans whether it be fan channels or social media followers have daggers out for him before a single ball was kicked. I thought he was one of the better performers against Brighton and was poor against Brentford like all 12 or 13 of his team mates, but he wasnt the worst..... but again he is being singled out unfairly.....
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I don't even know what you're on about, I've not mentioned anything about him being captain or his price tag.
I' haven't singled him out either, this is the Maguire thread and I've actually singled out one thing that annoys me the most.
His lack of taking responsibility in situations where he could bring the ball down but still chooses to head or boot it back to the opposition. Calm down.

What I said is not personal, neither is it an abuse. I haven't even spoken about his lack of pace, I know CBs aren't meant to be rapid. I don't know who you're mad at here, but you've quoted the wrong post.
 

Replenish

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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Maguire (and Shaw) rated amber in terms of how successful they’ve been :nono:
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That's fair for Shaw I'd say. He was very good when he arrived until the leg break and wasn't he player of the year or something the season before last? He's had some very good periods of form for the club, less so recently. Maguire on the other hand should clearly be in red.
 

Bwuk

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I can't see us ever turning a corner and being a decent side with him as the leader/captain in it.

He doesn't know how to win. He's not got it in him.
 

SadlerMUFC

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Lyng said:
No the fault here is firmly on Maguire and De Gea, who both did the opposite of what the coach asked them to. Ten hag outlined that the idea was to invite opposite players in (which Eriksen did) and then play long, which of course Maguire and De Gea didn't.
They directly went against the gameplan.
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Wow....scapegoat much? I can see how someone could blame De Gea, but some how you've even managed to include Maguire. That's impressive
 

Lyng

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SadlerMUFC said:
Wow....scapegoat much? I can see how someone could blame De Gea, but some how you've even managed to include Maguire. That's impressive
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He did the EXACT same thing in the match though??? You have to be in a Maguire cult to not compare those two situations.
 

SadlerMUFC

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Lyng said:
He did the EXACT same thing in the match though??? You have to be in a Maguire cult to not compare those two situations.
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Maguire gave the same pass to Erikson and rather than pass it with his first touch like he's supposed to, Erikson tried to take a touch. This pass isn't meant to draw people in so you can go long. It's meant to draw people in so you can go wide with your first touch and on both passes Erikson fecked it up. If you don't understand that then you obviously have never played. This pass happens at least a dozen times in a match without issue. The only time an issue happens is if the player receiving the pass does something he shouldn't do.
 

Chief123

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SadlerMUFC said:
I'm not a big De Gea fan but there was absolutely nothing wrong with the pass he gave Erikson. Erikson f***ed it up. That's a pass that happens several times in a match with the idea being that you pass it wide with your first touch.
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It’s a good job you’re not a coach.
 

SadlerMUFC

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Robbie Boy said:
Gotta love the backtracking :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Back tracking? Not at all. You are absolutely right and it was so wrong of me to say "nobody complained about it". You see, I forgot that people here take everything you say literally so in your little head you will miss the point of the post and claim a win because a few did complain about it. That's my bad. I should have known that someone would point that out while the entire point of the post goes miles over their head. I should have said "Barely anyone complained"....and then perhaps the point of the post would be heard by people like you. But I failed and you got side tracked by one little word that had very little to do with the post. Hence the response of "thanks captain obvious"...
 

Lyng

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SadlerMUFC said:
Maguire gave the same pass to Erikson and rather than pass it with his first touch like he's supposed to, Erikson tried to take a touch. This pass isn't meant to draw people in so you can go long. It's meant to draw people in so you can go wide with your first touch and on both passes Erikson fecked it up. If you don't understand that then you obviously have never played. This pass happens at least a dozen times in a match without issue. The only time an issue happens is if the player receiving the pass does something he shouldn't do.
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Ten Hag even said so in an interview.

Maguire walks with the ball, like he is known to do. Dalots marker moves towards him and Eriksen drags the other player with him, leaving a ton of space for Maguire to sent the ball in behind to a free Dalot. But he passes it to Eriksen because he apparently doesnt understand basic football tactics more than you do.
Eriksen yelled at him afterwards for the same reason, you even see Eriksen point towards Dalot before he moves towards Maguire to drag the players away from Dalot and that space behind.
Its basic. Yet Maguire fecks it up.
He should play for a team that plays basic counter attacking football. He would be very good there. Will never work in a high line side.
 
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AjaxNL

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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Maguire (and Shaw) rated amber in terms of how successful they’ve been :nono:

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Daley Blind being included in a flop list with absolute utter garbage signings like Fellaini, Sanchez, Dalot and AWB seems very unfair on Blind. Maybe I'm biased. I remember him being more than decent for a good while here.
 

Cassidy

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AjaxNL said:
Daley Blind being included in a flop list with absolute utter garbage signings like Fellaini, Sanchez, Dalot and AWB seems very unfair on Blind. Maybe I'm biased. I remember him being more than decent for a good while here.
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Blind should be green in my opinion, maybe amber if we're being overly critical. He was 14m and played very well for us
 

Xaviboy

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Even Joel Ward made playing out from back easy last night for Palace v Liverpool.

Towards end of game Palace goal kick he receives ball inside 6 yard box and with no pass on so drove forward with ball, Palace attack from it.

Telling you lads he needs to be dropped or sold.

Brutal player.
 

BeforeKeanetherewasRobson

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Xaviboy said:
Even Joel Ward made playing out from back easy last night for Palace v Liverpool.

Towards end of game Palace goal kick he receives ball inside 6 yard box and with no pass on so drove forward with ball, Palace attack from it.

Telling you lads he needs to be dropped or sold.

Brutal player.
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This is the issue I see in our defenders and goalie.

They pass to feet and stand still (the player with the ball AND the ones without). It makes it so easy for opponents to narrow angles and press.

One, team mates have to move to create options and two, player with the ball… if there’s no pass, just take a couple of strides out/create new angles. If all else fails, hoof it.
 

Irwin99

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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Maguire (and Shaw) rated amber in terms of how successful they’ve been :nono:

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You could, somewhat generously, consider his first season and a half as a moderate success but in his second season I think we conceded 44 goals or something similar and we all know what happened last season.

Gary said he was partly rating these players on value for money and impact which immediately makes this signing a flop in my eyes. For 80 million you'd want a bit better than just either average/good or downright dreadful.

Anyway let's hope ten Hag can get him back to looking decent. I still think there's a good defender in there somewhere.
 

SadlerMUFC

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Lyng said:
Ten Hag even said so in an interview.

Maguire walks with the ball, like he is known to do. Dalots marker moves towards him and Eriksen drags the other player with him, leaving a ton of space for Maguire to sent the ball in behind to a free Dalot. But he passes it to Eriksen because he apparently doesnt understand basic football tactics more than you do.
Eriksen yelled at him afterwards for the same reason, you even see Eriksen point towards Dalot before he moves towards Maguire to drag the players away from Dalot and that space behind.
Its basic. Yet Maguire fecks it up.
He should play for a team that plays basic counter attacking football. He would be very good there. Will never work in a high line side.
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Dude, i've obviously forgotten more about this game then you will ever know if you don't understand the simple tactic of Erikson playing that first time to Dalot
 

Lyng

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SadlerMUFC said:
Dude, i've obviously forgotten more about this game then you will ever know if you don't understand the simple tactic of Erikson playing that first time to Dalot
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He doesnt expect to get the pass, so had to react to that will being pressed down. He expects his teammate to actually do what the manager has asked them, and he himself has pointed towards.
The tactic was to pull the player and give space for Maguire to pass the ball into. Passing the ball to a teammate beeing pressed down is not tactic, its lack of brains. Never in a million years is that Eriksens fault.
 

Robbie Boy

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SadlerMUFC said:
Back tracking? Not at all. You are absolutely right and it was so wrong of me to say "nobody complained about it". You see, I forgot that people here take everything you say literally so in your little head you will miss the point of the post and claim a win because a few did complain about it. That's my bad. I should have known that someone would point that out while the entire point of the post goes miles over their head. I should have said "Barely anyone complained"....and then perhaps the point of the post would be heard by people like you. But I failed and you got side tracked by one little word that had very little to do with the post. Hence the response of "thanks captain obvious"...
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Apology accepted - we all talk shit on here from time-to-time, some more so than others :)
 

SadlerMUFC

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Lyng said:
He doesnt expect to get the pass, so had to react to that will being pressed down. He expects his teammate to actually do what the manager has asked them, and he himself has pointed towards.
The tactic was to pull the player and give space for Maguire to pass the ball into. Passing the ball to a teammate beeing pressed down is not tactic, its lack of brains. Never in a million years is that Eriksens fault.
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So a player is checking in but not expecting to get a pass? Give your head a shake. I wish there was a way that I could ring a bell every time that pass happens in a game. I guarantee you it will be at least a dozen times without issue
 

Lyng

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SadlerMUFC said:
So a player is checking in but not expecting to get a pass? Give your head a shake. I wish there was a way that I could ring a bell every time that pass happens in a game. I guarantee you it will be at least a dozen times without issue
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He is pull the marker towards him to make space so Maguire can pass long, like Ten Hag said in the interview afterwards. So of course he doesnt expect his team mate to go straight against the tactic.
 

Longshanks

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Oranges038 said:
He doesn't struggle because Southgate plays 6 other defensive players with him.
There's no way he could struggle in that setup against mostly weaker teams.

I agree that he gets little to no protection and very little backup from his keeper which gives him a massive amount of ground to try and cover.

But do you not think. If the guys in around him, in front or to the sides of him aren't doing their jobs right as captain and main centre back he should be organising and controlling all that? Making sure the cover is there, telling people what to do out there on the pitch.

The way I see it is that he can't and doesn't because he has absolutely no leadership or authority about him at all, he commands zero respect from those around him. For me that is one of his biggest flaws.
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His biggest problem is the player behind him, he cant tell de gea to be more pro-active, to sweep more and command more and claim more balls and be the extra player in possesion when playing out from the back.

De gea thinks he is brilliant and other than glaring errors thinks he isnt in anyway responsible for the disorganised shit show happening infront of him when actually an awful lot of it is on him.

Maguire has been horribly exposed by his GK and his managers, the managers want the team to push high and press, the GK want the defensive line deeper and more protecting. The defensive line ends up neither here nor there as the rest of team pushes up to attemp a high press and huge gap appear between midfield and defence.

The defenders don't dare push further forward for fear of a ball over the top that they have to chase as there is no chance of de gea doing it. For a CB to confidently push high you need the reassurance from the GK that they will cover and sweep behind you anything to comes over the top, de gea dosent do that.

Defending well is something a team does, you have to be compact, either all high,all mid or all low including the GK. More often than not we end up some high, some mid and the GK is always low. Its impossible to get defending high right without a GK that will actively push the defensive line high and proactively sweep behind the defensive line.

Maguire for what its worth is on a hiding to nothing trying to defend high infront of De gea, all the defenders are.
 

Polar

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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Maguire (and Shaw) rated amber in terms of how successful they’ve been :nono:

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Not sure it’s fair to put Sancho and Ahmad in the red category already.

Maybe wrong to put Lindelof in the same box as the other duds. Should be moved up?

Daniel James was good business, so he’s in my opinion not red :D
 

Oranges038

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Longshanks said:
His biggest problem is the player behind him, he cant tell de gea to be more pro-active, to sweep more and command more and claim more balls and be the extra player in possesion when playing out from the back.

De gea thinks he is brilliant and other than glaring errors thinks he isnt in anyway responsible for the disorganised shit show happening infront of him when actually an awful lot of it is on him.

Maguire has been horribly exposed by his GK and his managers, the managers want the team to push high and press, the GK want the defensive line deeper and more protecting. The defensive line ends up neither here nor there as the rest of team pushes up to attemp a high press and huge gap appear between midfield and defence.

The defenders don't dare push further forward for fear of a ball over the top that they have to chase as there is no chance of de gea doing it. For a CB to confidently push high you need the reassurance from the GK that they will cover and sweep behind you anything to comes over the top, de gea dosent do that.

Defending well is something a team does, you have to be compact, either all high,all mid or all low including the GK. More often than not we end up some high, some mid and the GK is always low. Its impossible to get defending high right without a GK that will actively push the defensive line high and proactively sweep behind the defensive line.

Maguire for what its worth is on a hiding to nothing trying to defend high infront of De gea, all the defenders are.
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I agree about DDG. I would say it's nigh on impossible for any defender to play with someone like that in goal. Whether defending high or deep, you can't trust that he's going to be there to claim the ball, which causes all kinds of confusion.
 

Wing Attack Plan R

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Fortitude said:
It's basically an incomplete methodology, one even Maguire used to do a lot in his earlier career and here before he completely lost his nerve and confidence. Prod and stab the ball: draw players to it and then either drive into vacant space or lay off to another player having then giving them a lot more space and time to operate in.

Two things were initially at work that reduced Maguire's aptitude with this: others around him, particularly midfielders in front, not showing for the ball immediately, ultimately leaving him with more and more responsibility to do something with the ball in lieu of that basic support, which so often saw him go long because other options ensured they weren't on.

The second thing has been his own mistakes, which have left him doubting and second-guessing himself to the point we now see how crippling the thought processes have become im his head where he essentially goes into temporary stasis and looks terrified as he's being closed down and has real time decisions to make - the Dalot incident being one of countless others where this leads to absolute chaos and unsettling everyone around him as they have no idea when the next brainfart is coming.

The inability to think and adjust on the hop, with and without the ball, is one of his biggest failings and should ultimately be his downfall if ten Hag is still here in a season or two.

Unfortunately for Maguire, I think he's FUBAR'd by now, and the progressive player he came here as, which was supposed to be built upon, has been completely consumed by self-doubt and fragility. He's a broken man who doesn't believe in himself anymore let alone have the ability to instill confidence in literally anyone around him.

It's a misery compounded because our keeper has similarly become a shell of himself, so you've got two flappers back there in absolutely crucial positions through the spine of the team. In fact, as spines go, ours, straight through qualifies us as some kind of invertebrate as it can't even hold itself up let alone a team.

It's a fragility every single team in the league knows to attack; just get amongst us; someone will flap and make mistakes, 100% guaranteed.
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Bolded part made me laugh. I agree with what you wrote 100%. I think you've articulated what Maguire's problem is, and I agree that he doesn't look like he can be fixed (paraphrasing).
 

The1974s

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I'm new here so I apologise if what I say is just me repeating what others have said but the main issue with Maguire is he's not capable of playing for United or any other top 6 side that want to play a high line
This isn't Maguires fault its the board and whoever is meant to scout these players because if they had done anywhere near their job then Harry would never have been allowed to sign and most definitely not for 80 million.
I personally feel sorry for him because he's so far out of his depth and TenHag hasn't helped by keeping him as captain.
 

fps

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Cassidy said:
Blind should be green in my opinion, maybe amber if we're being overly critical. He was 14m and played very well for us
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Versatile squad player who did what was asked of him, typical good Dutch player in that he had very clear tactical acumen and reliable touch, positioning and passing. Just didn’t have the extra physicality for top end of PL, not for lack of effort. A good pro.
 

Stadjer

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The1974s said:
I'm new here so I apologise if what I say is just me repeating what others have said but the main issue with Maguire is he's not capable of playing for United or any other top 6 side that want to play a high line
This isn't Maguires fault its the board and whoever is meant to scout these players because if they had done anywhere near their job then Harry would never have been allowed to sign and most definitely not for 80 million.
I personally feel sorry for him because he's so far out of his depth and TenHag hasn't helped by keeping him as captain.
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Ole signed him. Ole didnt want to play a high line but sit back with 4 defenders close to DDG with Fred and McT infront protecting. The attacking tactic was to kick the ball forward and hope Rashford or Daniel James would outsprint the opponent and score. Maguire would be good in a tactic like that.
 

Mmm-Qatarian

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I have no aversion to replacing Maguire as captain at this stage; mentally I don't think he's capable of handling that pressure any longer. Although who I would make the captain is an entirely different question; I'd probably just let the squad vote on it.

With that said, I find the calls to have him dropped from the side genuinely strange considering of the back five he has arguably been the least bad performer. Now, before anybody comes on here saying this is a "classic Maguire blindfold", this is NOT me saying he has played well. His slowness on the ball has really frustrated me, and that was typified in the hospital pass he played to Eriksen moments before De Gea decided to do the exact same thing leading to Brentford's second goal. With that said, when you're thinking about dropping players it's typically the ones who are causing the most problems, and I'm yet to see anybody make a convincing argument that Maguire was one of them in our first two matches.
 

The1974s

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Stadjer said:
Ole signed him. Ole didnt want to play a high line but sit back with 4 defenders close to DDG with Fred and McT infront protecting. The attacking tactic was to kick the ball forward and hope Rashford or Daniel James would outsprint the opponent and score. Maguire would be good in a tactic like that.
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Yes totally agree but he's shown time after time he can't play what currently is being asked of him so he shouldn't be in the team nevermind be captain.
 
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