I would say the bigger issue is not signing a 30-year-old, but trying to sign a 30-year-old who signed a new contract just last year.
Is a 30-year old high profile player too old to be worth the outlay in the PL?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
So hard to say, players peak and tail off at completely different times.
Signing a 30 year old Rooney would have been a terrible signing, signing a 30 year old Ibrahimović would have been great.
Signing a 30 year old Rooney would have been a terrible signing, signing a 30 year old Ibrahimović would have been great.
It depends on where you are as a team, if you're close to winning major trophies then getting in someone to provide immediate quality and experience makes complete sense. For a team that is theoretically rebuilding like United should be then you obviously still need experience but I don't love the idea of spending big money on or prioritising older players because even if the rebuild works those players aren't going to be as useful by the time you get things right.
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Thiago Alcantara, James Miller, Thiago Silva, Adam Lallana, Trippier, Henderson, Klich, Vardy, Azpilacueta, Gundogan, Mahrez, Kante, KDB....to name a few.
All over thirty, all playing in high tempo teams, all very much integral to their teams,
Koulibaly is 31, just signed to Chelsea for £35m, for four years, apparently is actually on more than the £160k reported, near enough £300k if rumours are to be believed, (he was earning £180k a week at Napoli, so I'm inclined to believe he wouldn't take a pay cut).
All over thirty, all playing in high tempo teams, all very much integral to their teams,
Koulibaly is 31, just signed to Chelsea for £35m, for four years, apparently is actually on more than the £160k reported, near enough £300k if rumours are to be believed, (he was earning £180k a week at Napoli, so I'm inclined to believe he wouldn't take a pay cut).
Depends on both the player, and the team they are coming into.
For United currently, I think in general no depending on the other options.
But considering you are missing a leader and the other DM options touted aren't fantastic, then Casemiro probably isn't a bad move, price and wage dependant.
But, signing Aubamayang now for example would be a big no. Or signing someone like Grizemann.
For United currently, I think in general no depending on the other options.
But considering you are missing a leader and the other DM options touted aren't fantastic, then Casemiro probably isn't a bad move, price and wage dependant.
But, signing Aubamayang now for example would be a big no. Or signing someone like Grizemann.
Depends on the position and character of the player imo.
For GK and Defenders, 30 is still young. For MF ans FW where you have to sprint a lot, its a risk with injury and early decline. Lose half a yard of pace and you're just not the same player anymore.
Then you have to consider character. Players like Shaw will most likely not hit their best anymore after 30, while for others like Ronaldo and Zlatan, 30 is the new 20.
For GK and Defenders, 30 is still young. For MF ans FW where you have to sprint a lot, its a risk with injury and early decline. Lose half a yard of pace and you're just not the same player anymore.
Then you have to consider character. Players like Shaw will most likely not hit their best anymore after 30, while for others like Ronaldo and Zlatan, 30 is the new 20.
Precisely. They are the last piece of the puzzle who will just give you that little bit extra, i.e., having a great player over one good one in a strong team might be the difference between winning championships or at least making a fist of it. But that's not where we are
We have too many holes to fix and we will play rubbish around him. We will need 3-4 windows to get there and by that time the 30 yo becomes a 32 yo. And now we have just a couple of years or max 3 to get results with him. Why not buy someone at that point of time?
If you're not ready to win in the next year or so, you shouldn't be signing players of this profile. It's stupid.
I can't believe people are okay with this!? The numbers reported are insane and it's more if the same. Haven't we've had enough of old stop-gaps on obscene wages and super long contracts? It looks like a contract drawn up by Woodward himself. If Real Madrid let him go then they are doing it for a reason. We've bought from them twice now in this manner and both times it's been a bad idea. It's like we are dumping ground where they send players they no longer need. Another hand-me-down. Just stop.
never paid attention to age until Shevchenko and Deco both came to the Prem and flopped spectacularly, it’s a gamble but seems less so than it was 10-15 years ago
Its insane, another sticking plaster to cover up the gross incompetence of the owners and the yes men they appoint. Our supposed equals are busy buying young players, yet for the last decade we sign OAPs. When his legs go or injuries kick in and he is stuck here on huge wages for 3 years without playing and we cant afford new players, how will it look. DOnt support this.
To answer the question, I would take him or any elite CM even if they were a 1000 years old instead of having to see McFred start again
A 30 year old with desire and motivation is perfectly fine.
A 30 year old motivated by money and a big pay day is not good.
A 30 year old motivated by money and a big pay day is not good.
As many said, depends on the player, the club, the situation.
A shit, broken, demoralised club that has no realistic prospects of winning stuff any time soon signing a 30-year old who won everything there is to be won for 70m and a 5-year, 363k a week contract is absolute insanity. That's Alexis Sánchez squared. And even he didn't cost 70m as Arsenal accepted the equally useless Mkhitaryan in exchange. That's far worse than Schweinsteiger who was at least cheap.
A shit, broken, demoralised club that has no realistic prospects of winning stuff any time soon signing a 30-year old who won everything there is to be won for 70m and a 5-year, 363k a week contract is absolute insanity. That's Alexis Sánchez squared. And even he didn't cost 70m as Arsenal accepted the equally useless Mkhitaryan in exchange. That's far worse than Schweinsteiger who was at least cheap.
It's totally contextual. Look at Van Persie as the prime example, SAF felt he was the missing piece and he joined us at 29 if I'm not mistaken. Yes he had injuries etc but the season he gave us was a pure elite striker delivering in his prime which brought us back the title.
The problem we've had is we're signing over 30 year old players who are past their best on big contracts, that's the issue.
Right now one 30 year old elite player on big wages just doesn't solve it for us. We need half a dozen first team players at least to bring us back to a competitive place. At which point a 30 year old DM or CF or whatever the missing piece is, would be perfect.
The problem we've had is we're signing over 30 year old players who are past their best on big contracts, that's the issue.
Right now one 30 year old elite player on big wages just doesn't solve it for us. We need half a dozen first team players at least to bring us back to a competitive place. At which point a 30 year old DM or CF or whatever the missing piece is, would be perfect.
Depends on a number of factors. I think they need to be
- PL proven - we've seen time and time again players struggle to adapt to the PL (Di Maria / Varane / Veron). 30 seems to be quite old to adapt to the speed and power of the PL.
- Body / wear and tear - someone mentioned a 30 year old Ronaldo would definitely be but a 30 year old Rooney or original Ronaldo
- Cost - at the reported £80m we are offering for Cas, that's a bit too much in my eyes as there are too many uncertainties.
- Contract offered - if it's silly money and on a long deal just to get the player in we could end up being stuck with a 33 year old on £300k p/w doing feck all for 2 years
- PL proven - we've seen time and time again players struggle to adapt to the PL (Di Maria / Varane / Veron). 30 seems to be quite old to adapt to the speed and power of the PL.
- Body / wear and tear - someone mentioned a 30 year old Ronaldo would definitely be but a 30 year old Rooney or original Ronaldo
- Cost - at the reported £80m we are offering for Cas, that's a bit too much in my eyes as there are too many uncertainties.
- Contract offered - if it's silly money and on a long deal just to get the player in we could end up being stuck with a 33 year old on £300k p/w doing feck all for 2 years
The physicality of a 30 years old player in 2022 is like the physicality of a 28 years old player in 2002
You can't generalise, depends totally on the player and their professionalism throughout their career, imagine genetics plays a big part too.
The problem is I don't trust us to be able to recognise whether a player that age is in decline or not before we sign them.
The problem is I don't trust us to be able to recognise whether a player that age is in decline or not before we sign them.
I'd be more concerned about an older player coming in from Europe adapting to living in England than anything else.
Depends on the player, of course. Rooney was never gunna go on much later than 30, whereas you could tell Ronaldo was.
Signing Casemiro isn't "probably not a bad move" dependant on his price and wage, those are irrelevant to his quality. He's one of the, if not the, best DMs in world football currently and would come in and improve us massively. He has no bad injury record, and has proven to be a serial winner over the years. Only doubts would surround his motivation, i.e. whether he's coming for a last big pay cheque solely, or whether he actually wants to be a part of this rebuild. He seems to be quite a consumate professional, but the pessimist in me (which most Utd fans have become) fears the former option. Anyway, I doubt we'll pull this off.
Aubameyang would also be a great option. Just cos Arteta was unable to manage him or buy into his heart and brain drawings doesn't mean he's done, he's still a top player, and I'll fear he'll prove that again in the PL if Chelsea recruit him.
Yes it's more about signing an older players for big money. Nobody batted an eye lid for the Eriksen signing for that reason.
I''d be fine with this signing if we had a settled team. As it stands, we're a team that should be rebuilding and you don't rebuild a team with a 30-year holding midfielder. Add Eriksen to that, too. I mean, we could be potentially going into most games with two 30-year-olds in what is supposed to be the engine room.
That being said, it is a position that requires a vast amount of experience and Casermiro has that in abundance. Madrid has also been successful with himself, Kroos, and Modric, who are all 30+, although they have made sure they have found their replacements in Tchouameni and Camavinga.
I certainly won't be against this signing if we get it over the line but again, it just seems there's no strategy to our transfers, as usual, but hopefully, it works out if we sign him.
That being said, it is a position that requires a vast amount of experience and Casermiro has that in abundance. Madrid has also been successful with himself, Kroos, and Modric, who are all 30+, although they have made sure they have found their replacements in Tchouameni and Camavinga.
I certainly won't be against this signing if we get it over the line but again, it just seems there's no strategy to our transfers, as usual, but hopefully, it works out if we sign him.
Not with the way ten Hag uses his strikers. Aubameyang is awful with his back to goal.
There isn't a rule IMHO. We have botched so many transfers over the years that using Man Utd as a case study would not be valid.
It'll be a typical United signing that we were hoping to get away from but as things stand you'd have to be off your rocker to be against this. Right now the immediate season has to be our priority because the team as it is might struggle to finish in the top 8.
He’s also a centre back, the one outfield position where I would reasonably accept a 33 or 34 year old could still be at their peak.
That's a bit too black and white, in my mind, but I see what you mean. Still thinks he'd be very good for Chelsea.
How is Casemiro’s English?
Cant say much as a wholes about signing 30yr old players. Circumstances dictate us to pay the fees and wages for Casemiro.
We cant compare really with the past as fees were in a different sphere since the famous Neymar transfer. United really has to do whatever and buy whoever we can (of course quolity too) to stop the falling now. Its a fall the last 2 matches and thats what trigger the panic in the club and gives out more money for players. You need to stop the fall nd have some great player (Casemiro) as well with young talents to help us build. Even 3 very good years from him is worth it because we not in position to choose. You dont want to be like Arsenal with young talents and won nothing and at the end the talents will move from you.
We cant compare really with the past as fees were in a different sphere since the famous Neymar transfer. United really has to do whatever and buy whoever we can (of course quolity too) to stop the falling now. Its a fall the last 2 matches and thats what trigger the panic in the club and gives out more money for players. You need to stop the fall nd have some great player (Casemiro) as well with young talents to help us build. Even 3 very good years from him is worth it because we not in position to choose. You dont want to be like Arsenal with young talents and won nothing and at the end the talents will move from you.
In answer to the OP
Yes, the transfer fee is way to high and the wages are ridiculous for a 5 year contract.
If the transfer fee was 30m and the wages halved and a three year contact then it would make sense.
Figures being talked about are nonsense.
Yes, the transfer fee is way to high and the wages are ridiculous for a 5 year contract.
If the transfer fee was 30m and the wages halved and a three year contact then it would make sense.
Figures being talked about are nonsense.
I can see why ten Hag wanted to desperately keep hold of Matic. Despite the loss of dynamism, from an on-the-ball point of view, Matic would have been perfect for the way ten Hag wants to use his single pivot.
There is a general lack of appreciation of our current standing in world football. Lets say we want to sign a player who can improve us. Our options are the following:
Casemiro would fit into that last category. Maybe he will work out long term, maybe not. But you have to work with what is realistic. I would love to focus on unknown players who we scouted well and rising stars, but our fanbase won't buy into it, no matter how much they say they would. The strategy that people talk a lot about (decent player at a good age from a smaller club, like Neves and Tielemans), has mostly failed here tbh. Mostly because we don't have a defined style of play where it is clear how and where people fit.
- Sign an unknown quantity early in their development, who shows great promise. Think the strategy of the RB group and Dortmund. This doesn't work for us because our lack of stability and philosophy means more often than not we will fail to develop them. Additionally, although we've achieved very little recently, expectations remain very high which means that there is no time to develop these transfers properly. I don't know who fits here. Maybe Dalot was this kind of buy?
- Sign a rising start. Think Haaland, Tchouameni, Bellingham. This we can't do easily like we used (Rio, Rooney, Ronaldo) because beyond money, we don't offer much these days. Not stability or chance for development, no trophies, often no elite European football, and the future is uncertain. The last player we signed that fits this criteria was Sancho, so it is doable when the stars align, but difficult.
- Sign a WC/WC-adjacent player at their peak. De Jong comes to mind and fits into this category. These players are usually already at great clubs. Whereas before we could match these big clubs for accomplishments and future prospects, and then outspend them, now we can't. We're just not that appealing for these kinds of players. This forum knows full well the futility of trying to get a player at the peak of their powers from a big club. The last player we signed that fits this criteria, and had to pay a lot for it, was Pogba.
- Sign a decent player in their prime who is not at a superclub, who might or might not actually improve us. Lots of this type of signing (Lindelof, Maguire, Fred, Bruno, Schneiderlin, Martinez..). Some come off, most don't.
- Finally, sign a world class player who is on the downward trajectory because of their age, recent form, injury record, or any other factors. Here there is a big great list: Varane, Matic, Ronaldo, Ibra, Cavani...aka, the stopgap.
Casemiro would fit into that last category. Maybe he will work out long term, maybe not. But you have to work with what is realistic. I would love to focus on unknown players who we scouted well and rising stars, but our fanbase won't buy into it, no matter how much they say they would. The strategy that people talk a lot about (decent player at a good age from a smaller club, like Neves and Tielemans), has mostly failed here tbh. Mostly because we don't have a defined style of play where it is clear how and where people fit.
ETH uses his strikers in many ways, Huntelaar, Tadic and Haller were used differently. The issue with Aubameyang is himself, if he is motivated then there isn't actually a lot of better strikers.
And all of those strikers you mentioned are good with their back to goal. As I said before, Aubameyang isn't!
That's a stretch. Huntelaar was a poacher and not particular good with his back to goal despite a decent size, Tadic was use as a false nince and Haller is the only one that can be described as someone with a good striker-like back to goal game. Those are three genuinely different players with and without the ball.
5 CLs, 3 La Ligas. 30 years old and a midfielder, so fittest days are likely behind him. If he can make double the money for the next 4-5 years it won't matter that he never wins anything significant again. I just don't see him being hungry
It's not solely the age. It's a combination of all the mistakes from the Woodward years. Short term purchases that don't fit the timeframe when we'll be able to compete, no resale value, funding other teams building for the future. It's an infinite loop of pissing money up the wall on players that wouldn't look near us if it wasn't for the wages and then wondering why they perform like they don't give a feck. Signing a player as a cherry on top type deal like Liverpool with Thiago or Bayern with Mane is completely different than our last minute panic buys every single season.
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy and I'm shocked so many people are on board with it.
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy and I'm shocked so many people are on board with it.
The individual pictured below is 31 years of age.
Ibra was a great signing for Man Utd even he was 35 back then.