The player(s) that are the hill you are prepared to die on?

I've backed Shaw previously simply because he has had 3 or 4 spells in his career usually lasting a few months where he has been genuinely excellent. It's harder to accept that a player needs replacing/upgrading when you know that they are capable of being excellent, but the problem is with mentality and consistency.

Of the current lot - Sancho. Can't believe some fans have written him off already. He has the talent, its upto the club/manager to get the best out of him. Same for Bruno, he's frustrating as feck and has very obvious limitations, but in the right setup we have seen what he can do and he's never short of work rate. Both these players are good enough that the team should be adjusted to get the best out of them.

Youngster - Garnacho. The one pre-season game was enough, I'm completely sold. He's going to be a superstar. I thought the same about Januzaj, mind.

Past players: Fletcher (massively underrated, was becoming a top player before his illness). Rooney - absolute hero for me and his decline was painful to watch. I came up with every excuse possible, he should play in midfield, he needs runners around him etc etc, the reality was he was drinking and eating junk and his body was done at the top level from about 27.

I'm a proud member of Martial FC

I will also rejoin Martial FC. Personally think his hold-up play and dribbling really benefit the team in a way that is only noticed when he doesn't play. And at his best he's always been devastating.

Anderson was a hill I was am somewhat willing to die on but have to admit he didn't live up to the expectations of the first season. I maintain that it was constant injuries that made him lose heart and some professionalism, rather than lack of professionalism causing the injuries. We'll never know. Used to know a Liverpool fan that always said he was shite from the start. I thought a fit Anderson in those first few seasons was top-class, excellent at driving the game at the opposition. Went to Old Trafford around that time and thought he was the best player on the pitch.

Fortitude said:

Until this season, I’ve given Luke Shaw the benefit of the doubt that one day he’ll return to his pre-leg break style of play and really live up to what I’ve always thought was obvious potential. The penny dropped the game before last when he couldn’t be arsed chasing back at full pelt to at least try and prevent a goal-scoring opportunity. I think before then I’d turn a blind eye to the criticism and would more likely defend him or explain away his actions than put him down. Bias because I saw the player he could be over the player he’d become. I’ve other players I favour, but I can’t recall many I would go out of my way to defend or excuse in the manner I very recently would’ve for Shaw.

I am curious about how you perceive your own stance on the players and perhaps managers we’ve had here post-Fergie, and which hills you’re prepared to die on, but also why that is the case for you.

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Marcus. He’s had a terrible season, off the back of a bad injury but we know he’s class. He’s still young and can improve, especially his decision making on the ball. I think he will become a monster again under Erik and Schteve.

Plant0x84 said:

Marcus. He’s had a terrible season, off the back of a bad injury but we know he’s class. He’s still young and can improve, especially his decision making on the ball. I think he will become a monster again under Erik and Schteve.

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Yes, I totally agree. I was very impressed to read in another thread that when Erik Ten Hag got the players in after the Brentford match to do extra running, he also did it himself (and I notice he didn't mention it during the Carragher/Neville interview when they asked him about that extra day) so good man management with humility/modesty thrown in.

Marcus co-authors books for teenagers with life lessons and stuff so I'm sure he will have been impressed with these actions by the new manager (it won't have been so easy for him to run those 13km at age 52 on a hot day).

I'm pretty convinced that one small action - getting the players in for 'punishment' but then accepting he should be part of it too, was why we saw the players run their hearts out and get a result that beforehand, not many people expected.

Fred. I think once he gets away from Mctominay he'll prove that he's a very good midfielder if used correctly.

I still think Rashford will come good again too and I can't help but like him, I was so happy for him when he scored against Liverpool.

For me it has to be Daley Blind.

I've always thought he's a fantastic footballer. Very good in 3 positions and had/has the intelligence to make up for his physical limitations. There was a time when Blind and Smalling looked like a great partnership.

I've never understood why he was sold.

Sancho.

Januzaj will return to his 2013 form any day now

I was toting the Tuanzebe water for a little while a year or so ago. Dude had such potential.

Valencia.

Thom Merrilin said:

I've never understood why he was sold.

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I think simply because Mourinho does not trust small, slight defenders like him. The first thing Mourinho generally does with his teams is increase the average height.

Rash is my boy. And I have a theory that this young group of forwards all stagnated for a reason. Now there is a manager who opens up the game for them. Who uses the speed of that forward group to move opponents around like a chessboard to open up opportunities.

These things favor young athletic players like Rash. Like Sancho. Like Martial. He just had to get them to flip that switch and find their aggression.

KeanoMagicHat said:

I will also rejoin Martial FC. Personally think his hold-up play and dribbling really benefit the team in a way that is only noticed when he doesn't play. And at his best he's always been devastating.

Anderson was a hill I was am somewhat willing to die on but have to admit he didn't live up to the expectations of the first season. I maintain that it was constant injuries that made him lose heart and some professionalism, rather than lack of professionalism causing the injuries. We'll never know. Used to know a Liverpool fan that always said he was shite from the start. I thought a fit Anderson in those first few seasons was top-class, excellent at driving the game at the opposition. Went to Old Trafford around that time and thought he was the best player on the pitch.

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Yes, I remember the very early days of Anderson and I still think he was brilliant. Shame it didn’t last.

Not letting Nick Powell develop into the next Paul Scholes was a mistake.

...and Phil Jones when fit is as good as the best of them.

Fortitude said:

Until this season, I’ve given Luke Shaw the benefit of the doubt that one day he’ll return to his pre-leg break style of play and really live up to what I’ve always thought was obvious potential. The penny dropped the game before last when he couldn’t be arsed chasing back at full pelt to at least try and prevent a goal-scoring opportunity. I think before then I’d turn a blind eye to the criticism and would more likely defend him or explain away his actions than put him down. Bias because I saw the player he could be over the player he’d become. I’ve other players I favour, but I can’t recall many I would go out of my way to defend or excuse in the manner I very recently would’ve for Shaw.

I am curious about how you perceive your own stance on the players and perhaps managers we’ve had here post-Fergie, and which hills you’re prepared to die on, but also why that is the case for you.

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Here is the sad stat about Luke Shaw. At age 18, he had 2986 minutes with Southampton. His first 4 years with United? 3,049. (PL games only.)

The only 2 times Shaw has surpassed 1750 minutes (in the EPL) were the 2018-2019 season and the 2020-2021 season. Both times- he was voted United's players player of the year-- and if not for Bruno going on a hot streak, Shaw would have won the Sir Matt Busby award twice. (Shaw won in it 2018.) I feel like he did return to his pre-leg break style, albeit for just 2 seasons.

Shaw's problem is staying healthy-- the 2 times he was able to stay healthy for most of the season-- he was one of United's best players. In reality, bc of his injury record, you can really only count on him for half the season. I won't write him off, bc he is truly capable of going on a 15 game run where he is awesome-- but then he will eventually injure himself. He takes so much stick-- but he's one of the few players in United's squad that when he is performing well, he is one of the best players in the world at his position. We can't say that about most of the squad, now can we? Not the worst thing to have, is a backup left back who is capable of being one of the best in the world when he's on. Fingers crossed Shaw pushes Malacia which forces both players to become better. Iron sharpens Iron. Competition is good. Lets hope Shaw, and other players who lost their spot work hard in training to push the starters. It's really good for the team if they do. And if they don't-- ETH should just get rid of the me first, toxic players in January-- even if it depletes the squads depth.

From current team nobody. Every single one let me down.

KeanoMagicHat said:

I think simply because Mourinho does not trust small, slight defenders like him. The first thing Mourinho generally does with his teams is increase the average height.

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It's a shame because if Blind was still at the club he would probably be an important player. He's 32 which while not young isn't too old and he played 34 league games last season for ETH, 10 more than Martinez.

From current team? Eriksen.
From potential signing? Frenkie.
Intelligent midfielders rarely disappoint unless if you play them on the wing like Mata. But even so I wouldn't call Mata a failure, the managers didn't know what to do with him.

Sancho, Martial, Bailly (RIP)

Like Fred too but not prepared to die on that hill. Sancho is an obvious one, and along with Martial the two are some of the best decision makers we have with the ball under pressure and exhibit key selflessness. Technically fantastic players which is something our fans don't care enough about compared to the old school "pace, physicality, etc." traits. Martial in particular was never given enough credit for his 19/20 season, he was legit one of the best strikers in the league yet everyone just talked about Bruno nonstop. Problem was that short break meant he didn't really get a good rest and then came out the next year and couldn't finish anything before getting injured. I also think his face irrationally pisses fans off the same way Pogba's hairstyles would.

Bailly I thought got a terrible rep for being way more error prone than he actually was, but his body let him down and never allowed him to establish himself back into the team. I think he'll be great for Marseille if he stays fit.

tenpoless said:

From current team? Eriksen.
From potential signing? Frenkie.
Intelligent midfielders rarely disappoint unless if you play them on the wing like Mata. But even so I wouldn't call Mata a failure, the managers didn't know what to do with him.

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I think Mata just lost any sort of burst he had while at Chelsea pretty much on arrival here, and it left us with a technically brilliant player that just couldn't really function in a modern side unless you give him that floating role off the right and surround him with equally technical players (which we did NOT have in the club). He would have been brilliant in a slower league after leaving Chelsea.

a good number of our current squad. Rashford, Shaw and Martial chief among them. Although I do think Malacia looks like a solid buy.

Over the seasons, I would pick Herrera and Mata. I think both were grossly misused. They had enough talent/potential to be good. But we tried to play them in all kinds of useless ways. And Ander kept getting dropped for no particular reason, even when he had good games. I think LVG didn't fancy him mostly because Ander wasn't suitable for the sideways passing and no risk football.
Overall, I blame the club/managers than the players themselves.

Obviously, I don't think they are useful anymore.

From the current squad, I still think Lindelof is an intelligent player and will have more use than Maguire. There is no reason and I don't think I can back it up in any argument. But hey ho!! People believed in Shaw this summer. Some of them called Maguire awesome till last year. Some of the lot on here wanted Bale even 2-3 years back. So I am not the only nut case.

Isotope said:

I still feel a bit bitter that Ole decided to sell Smalling and kept a coward CB like Lindelof.

I get that if Ole wanted to play possession football and building from the back, but then he had McFred in midfield for years with DDG as Gk. And Smalling with the right manager, could also play from the back, as he did under LvG.

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I disagree, but I guess it depends on what your definition of "playing out from the back" is. Yes - Smalling could rack up several completed passes per game when passing side to side without any pressure, however - it made for painful viewing whenever he tried to ping a pass. Watching Martinez effortlessly clip a 30 yard pass onto his teammate's foot has made me realise how starved we've been of ball playing centre backs over the years.

Berbatov.

In the past: Martial. In the post SAF era he's undoubtedly the player whose skillset I've been most in awe of and hence a talent I'd often find worthy of tuning in / championing. I thought he did great as a young player despite playing in a broken Manchester United while being managed by has been/ mediocre managers. But I'll admit that I totally misjudged his lack of intensity, reliance on confidence and seemingly low physical output and the extent to which these would hold his career back. Of course he may still fulfill his incredible potential but its no longer a 'hill I'm willing to die on'.

Currently: Nobody I guess. I wouldn't say I have that strong a view on anyone in this team given how much we've been let down. But I do think very highly of Sancho as a talent. He's incredibly gifted both in terms of close control and link up play / creating. His wrakness id say is killer instinct and physical toughness which will determine how good he'll end up. Aside from that I'm quietly happy of determining Malacia as a player we should sign when we were first linked. He looked a really good talent available on a reasonable fee and I think he'll do great.

But I wouldn't say there's anyone I'm willing to back no matter what or something currently.

I’m surprised to see no one mentioned Ravel Morrison yet.

Rashford for me. Had a couple of great seasons before the last one and quite frankly everybody was s... Scoring against the scousers is always special and he showed how much it really ment to him (as to all of us). As our academy product he would be a legend had he played with Scholes, Beckham and Giggs. But since he apeared in one of our darkest history pages he is going to be remebered maybe like Mark Robins (to the older fans I know Robins scored that all important Fa cup winner against Forest).

Im talking about current players because I have a large list of former ones.

Sancho, in one more year though the patience will run thin.

I know Ronaldo has been holding our team performances back and without him our performances will improve. Sancho need to improve and become more visible and aggressive.

Rashford, Bruno, Martial. Love them all.

atkar83 said:

Januzaj will return to his 2013 form any day now

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Came here to say this

Nani. You are all arseholes and Nani was mint.

A lot of our young players have regressed, Rashford, Martial, Sancho, McT, seemingly due to lack of coaching and serious loss of confidence.
One player that I am still very hopeful for is McT. He has been woeful recently, but he has shown brilliant attitude and desire in the past. He can break up play, carry the ball a little bit needs to do it consistently. Also, His position needs a lot of mental capabilities, positional sense, off the ball movement. He never developed these.
I am hoping under ETH and by training/playing alongside Case he fulfills the potential.

I’ve never heard this idiom and still can’t quite make out what it means, but if the question is who among current or former players got a raw deal from his club in some way, the first name that comes to mind is Ander Herrera. Our midfield play cratered when we went from Herrera to McTominay. Herrera was never the force of nature as Gerrard was or the goal scoring machine Lampard was, but he was tenacious off the ball and gifted with the ball and understood what it meant to be a United player. But judging from other posts I’m sure I’ve misunderstood the question.

Other names that come to mind are Rafael and Chicharito, both of whom had a lot left to give United before they were dismissed for no reason at all, not even to make a tidy profit from the sale.

EtH said:

Nani. You are all arseholes and Nani was mint.

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Nani was such a natural talent. Some of his goals are "crazy" to say the least

Berbatov: was actually a very hard worker yet many believed otherwise. Wish more people could see it. Will never let that die.

McTominay: Gets pelters on here, yet there's a reason why managers keep picking him. Does the dirty work and follows the managers tactics to the letter. Could be a better player on the ball for sure, but is a very solid player. Again, many on here can't see it.

Thom Merrilin said:

For me it has to be Daley Blind.

I've always thought he's a fantastic footballer. Very good in 3 positions and had/has the intelligence to make up for his physical limitations. There was a time when Blind and Smalling looked like a great partnership.

I've never understood why he was sold.

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Because the gaffer who came in wanted deep blocks and physical lumps. Took us a while but we may have actually replaced him with Martinez and Smalling with Varane.

Martial - AM9 FC is a cult, not a clique;
Sancho - even with the Bundesliga tax stuff this guy was putting up league tally double digit goals and assists at the age of 18-20. That’s the type of stuff only the Messi’s, Neymar‘s, and Hazard’s were doing on a season on season off basis.

Shaw out of the current lot, if only because there have been periods when he's looked great. He's so comfortable on the ball too, almost like another midfielder when he drifts in, think Pep would love that side of his game. Then he will get injured again. First few games this season though, yeesh..

Smalling out of recent years. Always unfairly lumped together with Jones. He had his faults but was solid defensively and not as bad on the ball as made out, just looked awkward. Some great goals too.