So what's next for Sir Gareth Southgate?

phelans shorts said:

England wouldn’t have reached the semi or the final without him. As evidenced by all of the sexier managers they’ve had in the past that can’t hold a candle to him record wise, despite having been blessed with better squads.

Tactics is a tiny part of international management, and it’s idiotically simplistic to ignore that.

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The only difference is that Southgate had a ridiculously easy run in both those tournaments.
The only good team you played in the World Cup was Belgium who beat you and France proved in the final they were miles better than Croatia. They should never have beaten you in that semi.
A poor German team was your only tricky game in the Euros and if Muller hadnt missed that sitter, it might have been different.
My point is that Southgate carried all the luck in the world in those 2 tournaments and still couldn't pull it off. Give one of those sexier managers those opponents and they just might have won something.
He is a dead man walking IMO and wont have a good WC.
The problem is the media fawned over him so much they are finding it hard to backtrack so fans criticism is met with derision and talk of overreaction. Talksport were actually booting callers yesterday if they called for him to be sacked.

redcucumber said:

Yeh, I did mention that. They happened to beat England to win the Euros, though. Would you not swap places with them? There's no guarantee of success regardless of the manager, we're talking about international knock out tournaments here, but deriding the likes of Italy and France who are the respective Euro and World Cup holders seems odd to me.

Fair enough. From memory Italy played far more entertaining stuff than England at the Euros, but I might be misremembering.

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Not misremembering. Luke Shaw scoring was almost the sole highlight of England’s tournament. Easiest draw imaginable, final at home, and Southgate still choked.

Rayman96 said:

The only difference is that Southgate had a ridiculously easy run in both those tournaments.
The only good team you played in the World Cup was Belgium who beat you and France proved in the final they were miles better than Croatia. They should never have beaten you in that semi.
A poor German team was your only tricky game in the Euros and if Muller hadnt missed that sitter, it might have been different.
My point is that Southgate carried all the luck in the world in those 2 tournaments and still couldn't pull it off. Give one of those sexier managers those opponents and they just might have won something.
He is a dead man walking IMO and wont have a good WC.
The problem is the media fawned over him so much they are finding it hard to backtrack so fans criticism is met with derision and talk of overreaction. Talksport were actually booting callers yesterday if they called for him to be sacked.

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Oh yeah Talksport are terrified of someone having the guts to say what they haven't any balls to, has definitely been fawned over by the media and now they are trapped.

Rayman96 said:

The only difference is that Southgate had a ridiculously easy run in both those tournaments.

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I find it hard to believe Southgate just got an all-time lucky draw twice in a row. Plenty of England managers have had easy draws and f##ked it up. He's obviously done well. If you write off every team England beats as crap, then they're only going to beat crap sides.

croadyman said:

Oh yeah Talksport are terrified of someone having the guts to say what they haven't any balls to, has definitely been fawned over by the media and now they are trapped.

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Those 2 jokers they have on a Sunday morning were ripping the piss out of Southgate's post match excuses yesterday morning.

little.triangles said:

Would be a hell of a downgrade from Rodgers and guarantee relegation.

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Most definitely. But it's also the kind of appointment I could see them making.

Southgate is England’s Ole. Ex player turned coach who comes in and stabilizes the team and creates a good atmosphere around it.

That good atmosphere enables the squad to perform better and luck their way to the deep end of tournaments and people mistake that for coaching genius.

But that can only take you so far, and the clock is ticking on the wheels coming off and his actual coaching ability, or inability, I should say, would be put to bare for all to see.

What’s with all the newspaper journalists coming out in support of Southgate? Don’t think I’ve seen journalists stating their support for other managers as they have for him.

TheGame said:

What’s with all the newspaper journalists coming out in support of Southgate? Don’t think I’ve seen journalists stating their support for other managers as they have for him.

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It is difficult to accept you are wrong, so they are just continuing down the same path of their love in with him even if it's obvious to anyone with even a 30 IQ that he's clueless.

English woke yes man puppet.

If he wasn't English they'd want him out in no time.

He's not great but let's be honest who are the candidates to replace him at the moment? You'd need an interim if he gets sacked straight after the WC but there's still unlikely to be anyone good in the summer.

• Steve Cooper would be near the top of the list considering his experience in the England setup but at the moment Forest are in the bottom 3, no chance he gets the job if he takes them straight back down.
• Eddie Howe would only be available if he gets sacked, which wouldn't be a good look if appointed on the back of that.
• Potter (ideal candidate) would only be available if he gets sacked, which would be a terrible look less than a season into his first big job.

SilentWitness said:

He has dropped TAA, Tomori, JWP and Bowen from the squad for tonight. I'd be seething if I were Tomori.

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Absolutely ridclulous with Tomori. The guy playing regularly for Milan in the league and UCL. Didn’t start him in Italy and now drops him. Fecking clueless.

He's absolutely fecking shite. His mental defenders in here are hilarious

Hope he stays for another decade

DannyCAFC said:

He's not great but let's be honest who are the candidates to replace him at the moment? You'd need an interim if he gets sacked straight after the WC but there's still unlikely to be anyone good in the summer.

• Steve Cooper would be near the top of the list considering his experience in the England setup but at the moment Forest are in the bottom 3, no chance he gets the job if he takes them straight back down.
• Eddie Howe would only be available if he gets sacked, which wouldn't be a good look if appointed on the back of that.
• Potter (ideal candidate) would only be available if he gets sacked, which would be a terrible look less than a season into his first big job.

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Brendan Rodgers. The idea of him at United was a horrible joke, but he's got the experience and ability to be a very competitive manager. Far, far better manager than Southgate.

Robbie Boy said:

He's absolutely fecking shite. His mental defenders in here are hilarious

Hope he stays for another decade

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Strange parallels with Ole supporters who did weird contortions, excuse after excuse, to defend their messiah.

SilentWitness said:

He has dropped TAA, Tomori, JWP and Bowen from the squad for tonight. I'd be seething if I were Tomori.

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Not really sure how much more he has to do to get a game to be honest.

SilentWitness said:

He has dropped TAA, Tomori, JWP and Bowen from the squad for tonight. I'd be seething if I were Tomori.

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He's a moron. Why call up so many players in the first place when you know you have to drop 5?

Tomori plays every game for Milan, a chance to try him in a back 4 tonight - with his pace, can play with a higher line. Last game before the world cup, already relegated anyway... Nope, stick with Maguire and the back 3/5.

The game is irrelevant anyway but especially so given the relegation so I so no reason why Toney doesn't get a start tonight. It's not like Kane is losing his place for the WC.

Fully expect another boring 3-5-2 with the known faces.

Robbie Boy said:

He's absolutely fecking shite. His mental defenders in here are hilarious

Hope he stays for another decade

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If this has taught anything it is that how rival fans felt when we had ole in charge. I get the feeling now

little.triangles said:

Strange parallels with Ole supporters who did weird contortions, excuse after excuse, to defend their messiah.

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Honestly, it’s eerie how similar they are, how both landed massive jobs well above their reach and how their fans make excuse after excuse for them. Have anyone seen them in the same room?

Leg-End said:

The game is irrelevant anyway but especially so given the relegation so I so no reason why Toney doesn't get a start tonight. It's not like Kane is losing his place for the WC.

Fully expect another boring 3-5-2 with the known faces.

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Hmmm while it's irrelevant from the Nations League perspective, it's also the last game before the World Cup and I'd argue England needs a win more than ever. Morale will be super low if they don't, and this is the last chance for Southgate to get things right with his starting XI before Qatar. He messed up by not including new faces earlier, now it's a salvage operation, and I expect the lineup tonight reflects who he has in mind as his starting players for the WC. A shame for Toney, Tomori and co, though in fairness they're probably better off not having to play in this unambitious, dull team.

The man’s doing an excellent job currently, I don’t know where the criticism is coming from. Keep up the good work Gareth! You’re on course for a knighthood.

kaku06 said:

Honestly, it’s eerie how similar they are, how both landed massive jobs well above their reach and how their fans make excuse after excuse for them. Have anyone seen them in the same room?

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At least Ole was a legend at the club, a near top-class striker, and scored one of United's most famous goals. He did overstay his welcome by at least a year though. There were folks here who thought many clubs in the premier league would line up for his signature after his sacking, but there haven't been any credible rumors about anything being offered to him. Everyone outside the United bubble--and many inside--had seen very quickly what his level was.

Southgate deserves ten times less leeway. At club level, he was an average player and a below average manager.

little.triangles said:

At least Ole was a legend at the club, a near top-class striker, and scored one of United's most famous goals. He did overstay his welcome by at least a year though. There were folks here who thought many clubs in the premier league would line up for his signature after his sacking, but there haven't been any credible rumors about anything being offered to him. Everyone outside the United bubble--and many inside--had seen very quickly what his level was.

Southgate deserves ten times less leeway. At club level, he was an average player and a below average manager.

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Can’t argue with that. Agreed.

Rooney in Paris said:

Hmmm while it's irrelevant from the Nations League perspective, it's also the last game before the World Cup and I'd argue England needs a win more than ever. Morale will be super low if they don't, and this is the last chance for Southgate to get things right with his starting XI before Qatar. He messed up by not including new faces earlier, now it's a salvage operation, and I expect the lineup tonight reflects who he has in mind as his starting players for the WC. A shame for Toney, Tomori and co, though in fairness they're probably better off not having to play in this unambitious, dull team.

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It works both ways though doesn't it, it's true they need a win for morale but if they go full strength and get beaten by Germany anyway it's probably a negative with no excuses.

England haven't evolved at all, it's the same system with largely the same squad as the Euro's, they are a Kane injury away from being up shit creek so we need to see what Toney could bring.

Leg-End said:

It works both ways though doesn't it, it's true they need a win for morale but if they go full strength and get beaten by Germany anyway it's probably a negative with no excuses.

England haven't evolved at all, it's the same system with largely the same squad as the Euro's, they are a Kane injury away from being up shit creek so we need to see what Toney could bring.

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Oh I agree with you, but Southgate has shown to be so conservative that I think that's how he'll approach the game.

redcucumber said:

Brendan Rodgers. The idea of him at United was a horrible joke, but he's got the experience and ability to be a very competitive manager. Far, far better manager than Southgate.

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Bit of a bellend though isn't he, don't think he'd do a great job with squad harmony.

DannyCAFC said:

Bit of a bellend though isn't he, don't think he'd do a great job with squad harmony.

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Bellend or not, he's successfully managed every team he's been a part of and has proven himself in a number of different environments. Players for the most part buy into whatever it is he's selling, so I'd absolutely take a punt on him.

redcucumber said:

Brendan Rodgers. The idea of him at United was a horrible joke, but he's got the experience and ability to be a very competitive manager. Far, far better manager than Southgate.

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Decent shout. He's well versed in making teams more than the sum of their parts, which is never something that Southgate has really convinced upon. And would be well suited to building around the more talented attacking players in the squad.

DannyCAFC said:

Bit of a bellend though isn't he, don't think he'd do a great job with squad harmony.

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He doesn't take responsibility very well, and has a horrible record in the transfer market. England could certainly do worse, but for one or two years is not a bad shout. More realistic than Tuchel anyways.

Rooney in Paris said:

Oh I agree with you, but Southgate has shown to be so conservative that I think that's how he'll approach the game.

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100% agree, he won't do anything bold for this one.

phelans shorts said:

Or embarrassing themselves in the infamous “EASY” group, followed by the horror show of the Germany game .

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That's true, but then that Germany team was pretty good and England had one of the worst refereeing decisions in history, with that goal not being counted.

phelans shorts said:

Or being eliminated by Iceland.

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True, but then big Sam wasn't really the sexy manager.

phelans shorts said:

Or offering a total of nothing against a poor Italy and a meh Uruguay.

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Roy Hodgson is a manager. He might also be sexy. But he definitely isn't a sexy manager.

phelans shorts said:

Or not even qualifying.

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Steve McLaren definitely was never a sexy manager.

phelans shorts said:

Or the many, many penalty defeats to meh Portugal sides.

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Were they actually meh teams? In 2004, they were the best squad in the tournament and should have won it (finished second). In 2006, they finished fourth. That meh squad actually was as successful as England under Southgate, but playing much better football. If that was meh, then England is double meh.

Honestly, Southgate did a good job in stabilizing the team after the horror shows of Hodgson and Allardyce. In those tournaments, England had a very nice draw, and in total defeated a single good team (Germany 2021), losing four matches against other good teams (Belgium x2, Croatia and Italy). They played, for the most part, bad football, but they did a good job in defeating minions, something that England was not able to consistently do since SGE left. However, they also have a pretty good set of players and it is not nice to see another generation of them getting wasted by a manager who is around as good as Ole, and has roughly the same strengths (togetherness, unity, keeping the squad happy) and weaknesses (pretty much everything that has to do with football, coaching and tactics).

redcucumber said:

Brendan Rodgers. The idea of him at United was a horrible joke, but he's got the experience and ability to be a very competitive manager. Far, far better manager than Southgate.

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redcucumber said:

Bellend or not, he's successfully managed every team he's been a part of and has proven himself in a number of different environments. Players for the most part buy into whatever it is he's selling, so I'd absolutely take a punt on him.

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Gio said:

Decent shout. He's well versed in making teams more than the sum of their parts, which is never something that Southgate has really convinced upon. And would be well suited to building around the more talented attacking players in the squad.

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mu4c_20le said:

He doesn't take responsibility very well, and has a horrible record in the transfer market. England could certainly do worse, but for one or two years is not a bad shout. More realistic than Tuchel anyways.

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Rodgers is from Northern Ireland. I'm not entirely sure if he is more "Green" NI or "Orange" NI, but the fact that he managed Celtic may be slightly suggestive. If he identifies more with the Republic of Ireland than England then he would definitely not see the England managerial hotseat as a better option than a top 12 English Premiership team. The likes of Everton or Villa would probably be after him if they sack their current English wonderboys.

He would be a good option though. He clearly knows his onions when it comes to coaching. It's just that his David Brent/Gordon Brittas persona probably becomes quite irritating to players after a while. Being in international management means the players won't have to deal with him constantly and so they might not get sick of him as quickly as they would if they had to interact with him daily.

Rodgers?

Sure, why not.

I can see him doing something more impressive than Southgate have done with the players available. Easily, I would say.

Rodgers is not a bad manager (coach) at all. And it is possible (I'm not saying it would happen, I have no idea really) that his faults as a manager (coach) would be less problematic in a national team setting. If that is the case, he could be brilliant, even.

TheGame said:

What’s with all the newspaper journalists coming out in support of Southgate? Don’t think I’ve seen journalists stating their support for other managers as they have for him.

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They don't want to admit they went far too OTT when getting to that Euros Final

Kweku Amonoo said:

Southgate is England’s Ole. Ex player turned coach who comes in and stabilizes the team and creates a good atmosphere around it.

That good atmosphere enables the squad to perform better and luck their way to the deep end of tournaments and people mistake that for coaching genius.

But that can only take you so far, and the clock is ticking on the wheels coming off and his actual coaching ability, or inability, I should say, would be put to bare for all to see.

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This is why United fans were the first to call him out when other fans were saying, WC semi and Euros Final.

Ole got us 2nd and Europa final too, but the football that went with it wasn't great.

England however well they have done, rely massively on set pieces and their defence keeping a clean sheet. The football is dreadful, players look like they cant pass.

I was watching the Italy game and the way they easily played out the press reminded me so much of when teams looked like prime Barca at OT.

Rooney in Paris said:

Hmmm while it's irrelevant from the Nations League perspective, it's also the last game before the World Cup and I'd argue England needs a win more than ever. Morale will be super low if they don't, and this is the last chance for Southgate to get things right with his starting XI before Qatar. He messed up by not including new faces earlier, now it's a salvage operation, and I expect the lineup tonight reflects who he has in mind as his starting players for the WC. A shame for Toney, Tomori and co, though in fairness they're probably better off not having to play in this unambitious, dull team.

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Yeah hold on tight you two because may get a manager soon who wants to attack that actually gives you a chance

Newspapers adore Southgate and he epitomises everything they’ve longed for. From giving pre & post press interviews without the air of contempt or hostility that some previous managers showed, to allowing the cameras into his home to feature in articles about his family life. They also loved the endless photo opportunities, whether it be his flair for sporting waist coats or the time he conducted the travelling England supporters singing from the stands during last summers Euros.

Teamsheet.. Looks interesting

On the BBC ticker I saw it with no righback, but James is there. So he picked 4 rightbacks for the squad?

Maguire again.

Won't be pretty.

Flying_Heckfish said:

Teamsheet.. Looks interesting

On the BBC ticker I saw it with no righback, but James is there. So he picked 4 rightbacks for the squad?

Maguire again.

Won't be pretty.

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Out of the substitutes 7 of the 12 are either goalkeepers or defenders!! That pretty much sums up Gareth!