What is Diogo Dalot good at?

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Lentwood

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criticalanalysis said:
As pointed out above, he came off at half time, where he was one of the better (arguably best iirc) players. Lindelof came in and we lost the game as Kubo had him on toast every time. Anyways I think there are two thoughts at play here, which can be discussed separately imo:

1) Has he or any player in the squad shown anything on a consistent basis to say 'yes he's a Utd player through and through and it's say to safe we'll fine with him'? Not really and that's sort of the end of discussion there. Many wouldn't really disagree, myself included.

That said, we can still praise, comment and/or speculate on a player's performance and potential based on what we are seeing and have seen.

2) Has Dalot shown enough base qualities and evidence that he's perhaps better than a mixed bag? Well again it's too early to judge but if I had to make a definitive statement then I would tentatively say yes, as has many others in here. The 'issue' is that you're judging him or not seeing what he has done. The examples and stats in the last page is enough evidence of that. Even your assessment of his against games Arsenal/Liverpool discredits his overall performances. He's one of our most important players when it comes to ball progression, passing etc and it's because he has the quality to do it. I'm not say it's top tier but there's some there. Enough to be optimistic about.

Check these videos - as is rudimentary with all compilations, it will make Dalot look like peak Alves and Cafu combined but if you ignore the stylised editing and EDM cinematic music, it's a fairly good representation of his best moments thus far this season. Even in the games against Brentford/Brighton, you will see he created some very good chances with his quick passing etc.

(literally first two searches on youtube)




I don't have an issue with 'let's not jump to conclusions, it's so fickle', I have issue with 'he's shown nothing to justify the recent praise/optimism' as that is too harsh. Not personal of course, just some light discussion.

Also I will add, like most on these forums, I get it. We're all Utd fans and anything post Fergie is almost PTSD inducing, it's the hope (and disappointment) that gets you so I understand how weathered it is to continuously go through this boom, bust cycle.
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I appreciate you're measured and thoughtful response and I am not saying I disagree with some of your points - however, as you sort of allude too, I find it quite hard to get excited about 'progressive passing' when that just used to be 'par' for a United player. Passing the ball forward, through the lines, at pace, was just something you were supposed to be able to do as standard. It comes with being 'quite good' at football, which I expect you to be if you're paid 100K+ to play for a supposedly elite team!

Now, again, I appreciate we're not the United of old and as I said a couple of points ago, comparisons to previously successful teams are not necessarily fair or helpful. However, I still want more from players like Dalot before I am willing to give him credit for anything more than 'decent'. For a start, I would like to see more assists, or at least dangerous crosses. He gets into good positions and his delivery is often poor or at least, he makes the wrong choice. I think if you look at his career record for assists, it supports this, since it really is very bleak for a full-back who is supposed to be the 'attacking/progressive' option

I think to be honest, when I have a 'cool' head on (i.e. not directly after a game/defeat) my personal opinion is that we only have one genuinely 'poor' regular starter, and that's Fred. The rest are at least average/fair if we're being objective/realistic about it.
 

justsomebloke

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Olecurls99 said:
Nah he was pretty good last season too.

Stats against all other full backs in Europe last season .

Progressive passing 83%
Completed long passes 90%
Passes into final 3rd 91%
Tackles 90%
Tackles won 87%
Click to expand...
He really wasn't pretty good last season.
criticalanalysis said:
As pointed out above, he came off at half time, where he was one of the better (arguably best iirc) players. Lindelof came in and we lost the game as Kubo had him on toast every time. Anyways I think there are two thoughts at play here, which can be discussed separately imo:

1) Has he or any player in the squad shown anything on a consistent basis to say 'yes he's a Utd player through and through and it's say to safe we'll fine with him'? Not really and that's sort of the end of discussion there. Many wouldn't really disagree, myself included.

That said, we can still praise, comment and/or speculate on a player's performance and potential based on what we are seeing and have seen.

2) Has Dalot shown enough base qualities and evidence that he's perhaps better than a mixed bag? Well again it's too early to judge but if I had to make a definitive statement then I would tentatively say yes, as has many others in here. The 'issue' is that you're judging him or not seeing what he has done. The examples and stats in the last page is enough evidence of that. Even your assessment of his against games Arsenal/Liverpool discredits his overall performances. He's one of our most important players when it comes to ball progression, passing etc and it's because he has the quality to do it. I'm not say it's top tier but there's some there. Enough to be optimistic about.

Check these videos - as is rudimentary with all compilations, it will make Dalot look like peak Alves and Cafu combined but if you ignore the stylised editing and EDM cinematic music, it's a fairly good representation of his best moments thus far this season. Even in the games against Brentford/Brighton, you will see he created some very good chances with his quick passing etc.

(literally first two searches on youtube)




I don't have an issue with 'let's not jump to conclusions, it's so fickle', I have issue with 'he's shown nothing to justify the recent praise/optimism' as that is too harsh. Not personal of course, just some light discussion.

Also I will add, like most on these forums, I get it. We're all Utd fans and anything post Fergie is almost PTSD inducing, it's the hope (and disappointment) that gets you so I understand how weathered it is to continuously go through this boom, bust cycle.
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Good points generally. Except that his stats doesn't actually unambiguously back up that he's one of our most important players when it comes to ball progression and passing, and they have also declined this season compared to last. His pass completion was 12th on the team last season with 79,8%, and has dropped significantly further to just above 71% this season. For a couple of key offensive impact indicators (GCA, xA) they also are in the bottom end of the team, though for some others (SCA, crosses into the box, progressive passes, passes into the box) they were in the higher end of the squad last season. However, he's had a notable dropoff in both progressive passes and progressive carries this season compared to last, so it seems difficult to argue he's contributing more in that area now.

On the other hand, he tops the team in attempted passes and also in progressive distance (except De Gea).

Not a really a clear answer to how to read all this, I guess I'm just noting that there's a lot to unpack.
 

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Fair play to him. Seems transformed this season, couldn't stand the sight of him last year but he's doing what he has to now and doing it well. I don't think he's the long term answer on the right side of defence, but he's improved ten fold this season at what he was bad at.
 

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justsomebloke said:
He played only the first half against Real Sociedad.
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And replacing him with Lindelof probably had something to do with us losing. All creativity from the right hand side disappeared the minute we decided to play a CB there
 

MrBest

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It's amazing what proper coaching can do to a player. Still early days, I think he is showing some real potential. I want to see him create more but also get more assists. You can say its the strikers issue that they are not there but its a joint relationship because the need to build that understanding. I like what I am seeing, including consistency. One thing for sure, he is definitely ahead of AWB.
 

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justsomebloke said:
He really wasn't pretty good last season.
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He also wasn't as bad as some make out. He was decent when Rangnick first bought him into the team, and although his form dropped off and he struggled for the last few months of the season it's a bit harsh to hold that against a young player too much when the entire team is self-destructing around him.

Olecurls99 said:
How do you explain the stats then? One of the best fbs at moving the ball forward and making and winning tackles according to FBRef
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Saying he was pretty good last season is as overboard (if not more so) as those saying he was terrible last season. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
 

Olecurls99

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MadDogg said:
Saying he was pretty good last season is as overboard (if not more so) as those saying he was terrible last season. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
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Stats say he was quite good and that from an inexperienced player in a team in meltdown. He was one of the few bright lights for me last season
 

justsomebloke

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Olecurls99 said:
Stats say he was quite good and that from an inexperienced player in a team in meltdown. He was one of the few bright lights for me last season
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Could you clarify which stats exactly you're looking at? Because if you're looking at the percentiles in the fbref scouting report, those are for the last 365 days, not 2021/22 PL.
 

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Olecurls99 said:
Stats say he was quite good and that from an inexperienced player in a team in meltdown. He was one of the few bright lights for me last season
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His passing in the build-up was decent throughout most of last season but, after a decent start, the rest of his game went downhill quite badly as the season wore on. Most notably defensively as he was constantly being caught out of position. His crossing was also poor, with him constantly blazing the ball way over everyone's heads and wasting the opportunities.

Dalot showed enough that I hadn't written him off and I knew he was obviously more suited to how ETH would want to play than AWB, but he would have to improve significantly to not be a big weakness in the team. The good news is that, for now at least, he's showing that improvement that I did hope for. Hopefully he can maintain it and continue improving further.
 

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Dalot was fairly good in the air, which is better than most right backs and was the main improvement over AWB
 

Olecurls99

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justsomebloke said:
Could you clarify which stats exactly you're looking at? Because if you're looking at the percentiles in the fbref scouting report, those are for the last 365 days, not 2021/22 PL.
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I quoted the below stats back in July in the Dalot thread so they're last season's figures.

Progressive passing 83%
Completed long passes 90%
Passes into final 3rd 91%
Tackles 90%
Tackles won 87%
 

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Diogoat Dalot is a very good player. Least of Utd's concerns.
 

justsomebloke

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Olecurls99 said:
I quoted the below stats back in July in the Dalot thread so they're last season's figures.

Progressive passing 83%
Completed long passes 90%
Passes into final 3rd 91%
Tackles 90%
Tackles won 87%
Click to expand...
okay. 83% etc what? Are those percentiles?
 

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Lot of talk about stats to defend his performances last season but there is big difference between stats and those big moments that decide games and that is where I and a number of other people grew incredibly frustrated with Dalot last season. He could be having a statistically great game but when on numerous occasions attacks came from his side of the field and he would not even be in the frame you had to question his discipline and awareness and as had been pointed out, his final ball was repeatedly only of any use if we had a 16ft striker. He has improved this year and I do think ETH has managed to instill a little more discipline in his game as I have not noticed the issue of him vanishing when we are attacked that was such a feature of his game last year. Baby steps but I am hopeful and I would love to see him succeed.
 

Foxbatt

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He really hasn't played much football. I still think he needs to improve on his defending and his crossing is getting better. I like the fact that he tries to sprint back too
I also remember he was terrible under Ole.
 

hart

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Least of our problem , and we will have to spend fortune to get a right back that might be significant upgrade to him. Renewing him should be our priority. It's just funny how some people wanted Trippier to replace him back then forgetting he was already like 33 years old. Probably the same people who ask the club to buy young players to build for the future.I mean If you want a young player then you can't expect for a finished articles, if you want a finished articles then you can't ask for young players ,that's like 1 + 1 = 2.Those who wanted young players shouldn't complain about what Dalot is currently lacking and must give him time to learn.
 
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UNITED ACADEMY

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Gandalf said:
Lot of talk about stats to defend his performances last season but there is big difference between stats and those big moments that decide games and that is where I and a number of other people grew incredibly frustrated with Dalot last season. He could be having a statistically great game but when on numerous occasions attacks came from his side of the field and he would not even be in the frame you had to question his discipline and awareness and as had been pointed out, his final ball was repeatedly only of any use if we had a 16ft striker. He has improved this year and I do think ETH has managed to instill a little more discipline in his game as I have not noticed the issue of him vanishing when we are attacked that was such a feature of his game last year. Baby steps but I am hopeful and I would love to see him succeed.
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The stats imo reflect to his talent and potential, in fact his last season stats was much better than Telles (which we know Telles is not rated by ETH). Which I haven't been surprised at all what he is doing now so far under ten Hag based on what I watched last season and how the last season stats backup what I saw last season. There is talent and potential that I expected ETH would like him.
 

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Lentwood said:
I appreciate you're measured and thoughtful response and I am not saying I disagree with some of your points - however, as you sort of allude too, I find it quite hard to get excited about 'progressive passing' when that just used to be 'par' for a United player. Passing the ball forward, through the lines, at pace, was just something you were supposed to be able to do as standard. It comes with being 'quite good' at football, which I expect you to be if you're paid 100K+ to play for a supposedly elite team!

For a start, I would like to see more assists, or at least dangerous crosses. He gets into good positions and his delivery is often poor or at least, he makes the wrong choice. I think if you look at his career record for assists, it supports this, since it really is very bleak for a full-back who is supposed to be the 'attacking/progressive' option

I think to be honest, when I have a 'cool' head on (i.e. not directly after a game/defeat) my personal opinion is that we only have one genuinely 'poor' regular starter, and that's Fred. The rest are at least average/fair if we're being objective/realistic about it.
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Dalot has been great at deliveries this season. There aren't just accurate they are some of the most well weighted crosses we've seen from any of our recent fullbacks. If we're even talking assists and moments he has been delivering. This reads like a discussion from july when it still made sense to say he had shown nothing going forward. At this point the conversation has long moved from whether he has it to whether he can sustain it.

You also can't put down progressive passing to talk up the assists. Assists are an even worse way to gauge full backs. They get so few of them per season that they can almost double their career tally in as many weeks. It doesn't actually tell you what they attack. Plus calling progressive passing something you're paid to do is grossly understating what it means for modern defenders to be able to withstand pressure like midfielders. It's not just sending the ball forward. Even Ashley young could send the ball forward. Advancing the ball without needing to compensate or cause numbers disadvantage elsewhere, the talent requirement for defenders is huge. Wan bissaka would still have a future at the club if it were so easy to play out of pressure. I should even have roped him in earlier, the perfect example of why assists are meaningless for gauging forward play.
 
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Olecurls99

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Greck said:
Dalot has been great at deliveries this season. There aren't just accurate they are some of the most well weighted crosses we've seen from any of our recent fullbacks. If we're even talking assists and moments he has been delivering. This reads like a discussion from july when it still made sense to say he had shown nothing going forward. At this point the conversation has long moved from whether he has it to whether he can sustain it.

You also can't put down progressive passing to talk up the assists. Assists are an even worse way to gauge full backs. They get so few of them per season that they can almost double their career tally in as many weeks. It doesn't actually tell you what they attack. Plus calling progressive passing something you're paid to do is grossly understating what it means for modern defenders to be able to withstand pressure like midfielders. It's not just sending the ball forward. Even Ashley young could send the ball forward. Advancing the ball without needing to compensate or cause numbers disadvantage elsewhere, the talent requirement for defenders is huge. Wan bissaka would still have a future at the club if it were so easy to play out of pressure. I should even have roped him in earlier, the perfect example of why assists are meaningless for gauging forward play.
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Excellent points. Progressive passing is a critical stat for a full back. Far more important than assists which, as you say, just isn't on the agenda often enough to be relevant.

Finding a free man high up the pitch is a crucial part of building attacks and Dalot is fantastic at it. Stats show he was doing it last season too.
 

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Olecurls99 said:
Excellent points. Progressive passing is a critical stat for a full back. Far more important than assists which, as you say, just isn't on the agenda often enough to be relevant.

Finding a free man high up the pitch is a crucial part of building attacks and Dalot is fantastic at it. Stats show he was doing it last season too.
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Well, your reading of those stats is still too shallow and superficial. You ignore, for example, his sub-80% pass completion, which actually this season is even worse - just above 70%. Which means that he quite frequently is failing to find a free man high up the pitch, and is giving away the ball instead. I don't have the time for this at the moment, but if you want to take a statistical view of Dalot's performance, there's quite a lot to unpack and assess. It's not a very straightforward picture.
 

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Greck said:
Dalot has been great at deliveries this season. There aren't just accurate they are some of the most well weighted crosses we've seen from any of our recent fullbacks. If we're even talking assists and moments he has been delivering. This reads like a discussion from july when it still made sense to say he had shown nothing going forward. At this point the conversation has long moved from whether he has it to whether he can sustain it.

You also can't put down progressive passing to talk up the assists. Assists are an even worse way to gauge full backs. They get so few of them per season that they can almost double their career tally in as many weeks. It doesn't actually tell you what they attack. Plus calling progressive passing something you're paid to do is grossly understating what it means for modern defenders to be able to withstand pressure like midfielders. It's not just sending the ball forward. Even Ashley young could send the ball forward. Advancing the ball without needing to compensate or cause numbers disadvantage elsewhere, the talent requirement for defenders is huge. Wan bissaka would still have a future at the club if it were so easy to play out of pressure. I should even have roped him in earlier, the perfect example of why assists are meaningless for gauging forward play.
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Generally I agree with you BUT Dalot has a shockingly low number of career assists. That then begs the question(s) - is that because he doesn't get forward enough or is it because his delivery isn't generally good enough?

Remember, many posters talked Dalot up as the 'attacking option'. We can talk about 'progressive passes' all we like but as I said before, that will only get you so far. If you want to be winning trophies, players have to have a bit more in their locker than just being able to pass forwards, that's the base standard.

Again...fine for now...let's not get-ahead of ourselves...we're not City or Liverpool so it's pointless comparing...but I do want to see MORE from Dalot before we start proclaiming that he's the answer at RB
 

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There are two types of modern fullbacks. The midfield type who's great at retaining possession and passing creatively, and the winger type who's a great dribbler and crosser. Dalot is more of the midfield type and he's good at it. The only question is how well that will work with an inverted winger like Antony.
 

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The Original said:
There are two types of modern fullbacks. The midfield type who's great at retaining possession and passing creatively, and the winger type who's a great dribbler and crosser. Dalot is more of the midfield type and he's good at it. The only question is how well that will work with an inverted winger like Antony.
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So far, ETHs style look more like inverted FBs and wide wingers to me. You very rarely see the FBs overlapping.
 

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Lentwood said:
Generally I agree with you BUT Dalot has a shockingly low number of career assists. That then begs the question(s) - is that because he doesn't get forward enough or is it because his delivery isn't generally good enough?

Remember, many posters talked Dalot up as the 'attacking option'. We can talk about 'progressive passes' all we like but as I said before, that will only get you so far. If you want to be winning trophies, players have to have a bit more in their locker than just being able to pass forwards, that's the base standard.

Again...fine for now...let's not get-ahead of ourselves...we're not City or Liverpool so it's pointless comparing...but I do want to see MORE from Dalot before we start proclaiming that he's the answer at RB
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Dalot has actually been providing assists and assist worthy crosses all season. So far so good. I could just leave it at that but for me, whether low or high, the stat tally doesn't mean anything. Fullback assists just don't say anything about the talent. We should not overstate the significance of those extra 2-3 assists, it's not where they make their money. It's a small part. Look up Evra's yearly assist tally in the league, ridiculously low. He often hovered below 3 per season. Even his crosses weren't great yet he's a legendary fullback and that was because of the thrust of his forward play. The true benefit lies beyond assist totals.

edit oh and for what it's worth I actually thought his crossing was poor in the past but not because of assists. Also form under Ole means little to me. Those who will remain are those who mesh with ETH, not just with numbers but general play. Squad has enough guys hiding gash general play behind decent numbers.
 
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wolvored

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He"s improved considerably this season so far. This is probably due to having proper coaching and a run in the team. We have plenty of games now, and a wc before xmas. Lets see how Dalot has done by the new year and whether TH still wants a RB to supplement him, or take over from him.
 

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This contract situation will be a real test for the new management ... Will they reward him with disproportionate wages as would surely have happened under Ed!
 

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justsomebloke said:
Well, your reading of those stats is still too shallow and superficial. You ignore, for example, his sub-80% pass completion, which actually this season is even worse - just above 70%. Which means that he quite frequently is failing to find a free man high up the pitch, and is giving away the ball instead. I don't have the time for this at the moment, but if you want to take a statistical view of Dalot's performance, there's quite a lot to unpack and assess. It's not a very straightforward picture.
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I'm ignoring it with good reason. I'm trying to counter the narrative that Dalot has suddenly turned into a good player this month and am showing that when he got his first proper run in the team, last year, he showed he was very good on the ball.

I think his pass completion figures aren't as high as others (61 percentile) because he attempts more long and medium passes. I think they will improve over time too.
 

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justsomebloke said:
So far, ETHs style look more like inverted FBs and wide wingers to me. You very rarely see the FBs overlapping.
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That must be a compromise rather than the design. We play with Sancho on the left and Antony on the right, both looking to cut in so the plan must be eventually to have the full-backs overlap.
 

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The Original said:
That must be a compromise rather than the design. We play with Sancho on the left and Antony on the right, both looking to cut in so the plan must be eventually to have the full-backs overlap.
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It is by design. Both like to cut in, but off the ball, they stay wide, which is why Dalot spends a lot of time in field.
 

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Olecurls99 said:
I'm ignoring it with good reason. I'm trying to counter the narrative that Dalot has suddenly turned into a good player this month and am showing that when he got his first proper run in the team, last year, he showed he was very good on the ball.

I think his pass completion figures aren't as high as others (61 percentile) because he attempts more long and medium passes. I think they will improve over time too.
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Not sure you're really getting my point here. What I'm saying is that it's not really straightforward that the stats show he was very good on the ball. And you're not countering the opposite view by ignoring that.
 

justsomebloke

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Okay, so here's a start: PL passing stats this season.

Premier League Passing Stats | FBref.com

His volume of completed passes is not high, at 40.5/90. There are 22 PL FB/WBs (with at least 2 90s this season, a qualifier used also for all subsequent position-specific figures) who have more.

His pass completion is pretty bad - 71,8%, good for 199th in the League. A quick count yields 33 FBs with better stats.

He's got a particular problem with short passes, where he's got 80.4% completion - good for 221st in the PL. I'm not going to count through more than 200 players to see how many FBs are above him, but obviously they are many.

He's not that much better with long passes completion%, where he ranks 192nd. For volume of completed long passes, he's got 5.93/90, good for 131st in the league. I'm counting 14 PL FBs or WBs who have more. Incidentally, Harry Maguire also has more. A lot more, actually (14.3/90).

Completed passes into the final 1/3: 132nd in the PL, with 3.22/90. I count 14 FB/WBs with better figures.

Progressive passes: I count 16 FB/WBs with higher figures/90 than Dalot's 3.90.


I'm finding it hard to see these as descriptive of a FB with a high-level impact when it comes to passing. But feel free to deepen the analysis. He'll probably rank higher for Crosses into the box, f.e.
 

Leethal

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justsomebloke said:
Okay, so here's a start: PL passing stats this season.

Premier League Passing Stats | FBref.com

His volume of completed passes is not high, at 40.5/90. There are 22 PL FB/WBs (with at least 2 90s this season, a qualifier used also for all subsequent position-specific figures) who have more.

His pass completion is pretty bad - 71,8%, good for 199th in the League. A quick count yields 33 FBs with better stats.

He's got a particular problem with short passes, where he's got 80.4% completion - good for 221st in the PL. I'm not going to count through more than 200 players to see how many FBs are above him, but obviously they are many.

He's not that much better with long passes completion%, where he ranks 192nd. For volume of completed long passes, he's got 5.93/90, good for 131st in the league. I'm counting 14 PL FBs or WBs who have more. Incidentally, Harry Maguire also has more. A lot more, actually (14.3/90).

Completed passes into the final 1/3: 132nd in the PL, with 3.22/90. I count 14 FB/WBs with better figures.

Progressive passes: I count 16 FB/WBs with higher figures/90 than Dalot's 3.90.


I'm finding it hard to see these as descriptive of a FB with a high-level impact when it comes to passing. But feel free to deepen the analysis. He'll probably rank higher for Crosses into the box, f.e.
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I watched him with my god-given eyes, and he’s played well this season from what I can see.

I don’t need statistics to tell me that.
 

justsomebloke

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Leethal said:
I watched him with my god-given eyes, and he’s played well this season from what I can see.

I don’t need statistics to tell me that.
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Ooookay. Good for you. As long as we're not discussing anything more precise than "has he been good"? Unfortunately, we are. But feel free to ignore it if you don't need it.
 

Olecurls99

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justsomebloke said:
Okay, so here's a start: PL passing stats this season.

Premier League Passing Stats | FBref.com

His volume of completed passes is not high, at 40.5/90. There are 22 PL FB/WBs (with at least 2 90s this season, a qualifier used also for all subsequent position-specific figures) who have more.

His pass completion is pretty bad - 71,8%, good for 199th in the League. A quick count yields 33 FBs with better stats.

He's got a particular problem with short passes, where he's got 80.4% completion - good for 221st in the PL. I'm not going to count through more than 200 players to see how many FBs are above him, but obviously they are many.

He's not that much better with long passes completion%, where he ranks 192nd. For volume of completed long passes, he's got 5.93/90, good for 131st in the league. I'm counting 14 PL FBs or WBs who have more. Incidentally, Harry Maguire also has more. A lot more, actually (14.3/90).

Completed passes into the final 1/3: 132nd in the PL, with 3.22/90. I count 14 FB/WBs with better figures.

Progressive passes: I count 16 FB/WBs with higher figures/90 than Dalot's 3.90.


I'm finding it hard to see these as descriptive of a FB with a high-level impact when it comes to passing. But feel free to deepen the analysis. He'll probably rank higher for Crosses into the box, f.e.
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That's a lot of needless work you've done there. Fbref compares him against full backs in the top 5 leagues over the past 365 days. The work has been done for you.

I don't need to know how he compares to every player in the league. That's pointless unless you want to say things like 131st best which isn't really helpful and is a bit disingenuous. Nobody really cares how he compares to KDB. We want how he compares to other FBs.

Okay here are some stats again from FBref
80+ top tier impressive
60+ quite good, better than average
50- Below average

Pass completion 61 Not as heinous as you're making out and I am countering your point here.

Total passing distance 84
Progressive passing distance 81
Short passing distance 25 but at 86.7% it really isn't that concerning and again he does attempt more long 87 and medium passes 82 which he succeeds at to a high level 90 and 81.

Key passes 63
Passes into final 3rd 89
Progressive passes 76

These are all big numbers as you can see. He's objectively, comparatively, drilled downingly good at passing.
 

Lentwood

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Greck said:
Dalot has actually been providing assists and assist worthy crosses all season. So far so good. I could just leave it at that but for me, whether low or high, the stat tally doesn't mean anything. Fullback assists just don't say anything about the talent. We should not overstate the significance of those extra 2-3 assists, it's not where they make their money. It's a small part. Look up Evra's yearly assist tally in the league, ridiculously low. He often hovered below 3 per season. Even his crosses weren't great yet he's a legendary fullback and that was because of the thrust of his forward play. The true benefit lies beyond assist totals.

edit oh and for what it's worth I actually thought his crossing was poor in the past but not because of assists. Also form under Ole means little to me. Those who will remain are those who mesh with ETH, not just with numbers but general play. Squad has enough guys hiding gash general play behind decent numbers.
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Yeah well I thought Evra's crossing was poor too but the difference between Evra and Dalot was that Evra was dynamic and regularly ran in-behind the opposition and drove forward at pace and on the overlap to create space for the likes of Ronaldo and Rooney to cut-inside.

Also, you must not have read the post you quoted because the post starts by saying how I don't like basing performances on stats (particularly assists) BUT I then go on to say that when the stats are SO bad...you might then have to ask "why".

Similarly, I have made the point elsewhere that when stats are SO good, they excuse otherwise mediocre performances. It works both ways...if you have a CF/WF/AMC who generally is hit and miss but posts insane numbers, then you can probably accept that.

Again though, I go back to my point...Dalot has played, what, 7/8 games this season, three of which have been defeats against mediocre sides. So yes, whilst I agree he's played BETTER, let's not start getting carried away because that's what this forum does. The truth is, he's PROBABLY, on the evidence of his career to date, just an average-to-fair fullback but, with age on his side and a decent coach, it's possible he could become fair/good
 

justsomebloke

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Olecurls99 said:
That's a lot of needless work you've done there. Fbref compares him against full backs in the top 5 leagues over the past 365 days. The work has been done for you.

I don't need to know how he compares to every player in the league. That's pointless unless you want to say things like 131st best which isn't really helpful and is a bit disingenuous. Nobody really cares how he compares to KDB. We want how he compares to other FBs.

Okay here are some stats again from FBref
80+ top tier impressive
60+ quite good, better than average
50- Below average

Pass completion 61 Not as heinous as you're making out and I am countering your point here.

Total passing distance 84
Progressive passing distance 81
Short passing distance 25 but at 86.7% it really isn't that concerning and again he does attempt more long 87 and medium passes 82 which he succeeds at to a high level 90 and 81.

Key passes 63
Passes into final 3rd 89
Progressive passes 76

These are all big numbers as you can see. He's objectively, comparatively, drilled downingly good at passing.
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Indeed I seem to have wasted my time - not because fbref has done the work for me (it should not be too complicated to understand the difference between percentile placement in the top 5 leagues, and performance relative to other FBs in the PL), but because you're obviously not interested in understanding the data you're bandying about.
 

justsomebloke

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Greck said:
Dalot has actually been providing assists and assist worthy crosses all season. So far so good. I could just leave it at that but for me, whether low or high, the stat tally doesn't mean anything. Fullback assists just don't say anything about the talent. We should not overstate the significance of those extra 2-3 assists, it's not where they make their money. It's a small part. Look up Evra's yearly assist tally in the league, ridiculously low. He often hovered below 3 per season. Even his crosses weren't great yet he's a legendary fullback and that was because of the thrust of his forward play. The true benefit lies beyond assist totals.

edit oh and for what it's worth I actually thought his crossing was poor in the past but not because of assists. Also form under Ole means little to me. Those who will remain are those who mesh with ETH, not just with numbers but general play. Squad has enough guys hiding gash general play behind decent numbers.
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Just to give the facts, which you are discussing even though you think they don't say anything, Dalot has 0.1 xA per 90 this season. Ie, one expected assist every ten games. And one actual assist. And he has completed a grand total of 6 crosses into the box.
 
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