Dean Henderson | Nottingham Forest loan watch

Longshanks

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largelyworried said:
Some updated stats comparing him and De Gea this season (plus whoever is top in that category). Out of 21 keepers.

Shot Stopping
(Post Shot xG - Goals Allowed per 90)
1st - Pickford+0.59
16th – Henderson-0.27
17th – De Gea-0.28


Long range pass completion
1st – Ederson56.7%
14th – De Gea33.3%
18th – Henderson31%


Crosses collected
1st – Fabianski13%
20th – De Gea1.5%
21st – Henderson1.4%


Sweeping
(Defensive actions outside the box per 90 mins)
1st – Allison1.57
8th – Henderson1
16th – De Gea0.43

Both as bad as each other.
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Other than in sweeping, despite de Gea being encouraged to sweep by ETH and Henderson playing behind a pretty old school style team in Forest.

That extra willingness to sweep would be a huge bonus to us and give the confidence to our defensive line to push up high so we can compress the space in the oppos half and actually excecute a high press.

More remarkably alot of people would have you believe De Gea is leagues above Henderson. Despite him more often than not behind or level with him in most comparable metrics.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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Greck said:
A good goal can have poor goalkeeping and vice versa. Deanho United should just get ready to defend the 2-3 curlers he's going to concede every week. He actively makes it easier to do just that. This is a growing sample and it's increasing. His shot stopping positioning will be brutally exploited more and more. The guy(s) who talked about his shocking positioning months ago were all spot on.
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I'm this guy :lol:
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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This thread has been pretty quiet as he's consistently been very average after saving a few penalties.

Funny thing is, he's busy so his shot stopping should be on show, think Mignolet at Sunderland or Foster at Watford. Yet, his % are no better than DDG
 

romufc

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He is an average keeper. He positions himself so it makes it look like its not his fault. He needs to be sold asap.
 

SATA

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Why does he always beat the ground whenever he concedes a goal? Any particular meaning to that or just a stupid tantrum of his?
 

RedDevil@84

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SATA said:
Why does he always beat the ground whenever he concedes a goal? Any particular meaning to that or just a stupid tantrum of his?
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He loves moaning. Makes you think someone else was at fault to things happening to him.
 

MUnchies

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Longshanks said:
No your right he should take a step to his left to open up the right hand to give Barnes a really easy finish into the other bottom corner while being compleatly unsighted by his own defender.
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Yes he should have taken a few steps to the left way before the shot so he had a chance to save, no way that would exposed his right side. Many goalkeepers save that shot, go watch the replay and pause it right before the shot is taken.
 

RedOrange

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SATA said:
Why does he always beat the ground whenever he concedes a goal? Any particular meaning to that or just a stupid tantrum of his?
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He does that because he's extremely upset about conceding a goal. It is a relatively common human response to feelings of intense frustration.

I understand why he didn't trust the club much after last season but he should have trusted in ETH to play him more this year. He probably would have started in the EL and cup matches at a minimum, especially considering how rough DDG's first two matches were. Instead he's getting shelled at a relegation club behind an awful defence.
 

RedMistyDevil

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romufc said:
He is an average keeper. He positions himself so it makes it look like its not his fault. He needs to be sold asap.
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I know right! I don't understand why the narrative when he concedes is "nothing he could do about that". Maybe if he had better positioning, he could've done something.

We really need our scouting department to step up so we can get a good replacement in.
 

Olecurls99

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MUnchies said:
Can't post media so thanks for posting this. The poster you replied to doesn't know what he is talking about, his positioning must be the worst of any goalkeeper I have ever seen.
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No anticipation, no footspeed, no arms. Poor keeping
 

Grande

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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
You don’t think he’s a tad too close to his right post?

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Hm if you extrapolate lines from the penalty spot and from Henderson’s feet to the goal line, he’s a lot farther from his right post than the firat impression makes it look like. With the ball where it is, the positioning doesn’t look that shabby to me, only seeing the photo.
 

Amir

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RedOrange said:
I understand why he didn't trust the club much after last season but he should have trusted in ETH to play him more this year. He probably would have started in the EL and cup matches at a minimum, especially considering how rough DDG's first two matches were. Instead he's getting shelled at a relegation club behind an awful defence.
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After wasting last season, I can totally understand why he wouldn't trust a manager he doesn't know. Plus, playing the odd cup match wasn't going to be enough.
 

RedOrange

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Amir said:
After wasting last season, I can totally understand why he wouldn't trust a manager he doesn't know. Plus, playing the odd cup match wasn't going to be enough.
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Oh I'm right there with you. I'm just saying that in hindsight, he would have had a pretty good chance at playing a good number of games this season had he stayed, like all the cup matches and maybe some of the PL matches too. If he'd outshone De Gea distributing the ball and sweeping in training I think ETH would have started him. I just think that at the end of the season he might come to regret not sticking it out here and going to a newly promoted team. Forest are terrible and any keeper will look bad behind that defence.

As much as some United fans hate him for his on field shows of emotion this season, we'd all have loved it if he wore that ball cap for us and waved it around after a big save.
 

Boondog

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Getting his ego kicked in at Forest is not the worst thing that could happen to the cnut. Might be helpful for him down the road in his MLS career.
 

Boondog

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RedOrange said:
Oh I'm right there with you. I'm just saying that in hindsight, he would have had a pretty good chance at playing a good number of games this season had he stayed, like all the cup matches and maybe some of the PL matches too. If he'd outshone De Gea distributing the ball and sweeping in training I think ETH would have started him. I just think that at the end of the season he might come to regret not sticking it out here and going to a newly promoted team. Forest are terrible and any keeper will look bad behind that defence.

As much as some United fans hate him for his on field shows of emotion this season, we'd all have loved it if he wore that ball cap for us and waved it around after a big save.
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He definitely should have stayed. That entire evolution was an example of a young player being stupid and hurting not only his opportunities for this season but making himself look like a dipshit with the fans.

I can't root for the type of guys that are on their own program. The selfish types. This whole thing with him is all about him. Maybe he'll learn though. I doubt it, but we'll see.
 

TheRedHearted

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Boondog said:
He definitely should have stayed. That entire evolution was an example of a young player being stupid and hurting not only his opportunities for this season but making himself look like a dipshit with the fans.

I can't root for the type of guys that are on their own program. The selfish types. This whole thing with him is all about him. Maybe he'll learn though. I doubt it, but we'll see.
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Look at it this way, if it’s some exciting project okay. Going to a newly promoted team, most of them go right back down. It’s not like he’s got a exciting defense in front of him. It was a dumb ass move.
 

Amir

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Boondog said:
I can't root for the type of guys that are on their own program. The selfish types. This whole thing with him is all about him. Maybe he'll learn though. I doubt it, but we'll see.
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It's so easy for us to say. But he's only got one, relatively short, career.
 

sullydnl

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Though in fairness the xG of the chance doesn't tell you how good the actual strikes were.
 

Boondog

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Looking at how much EtH and his coaching staff have improved DDG it's hard to imagine they couldn't make big strides with Henderson simply by getting him to do a better job in his positioning. He may be too much of a cnut for this club. But his bullshit decision making put him where he is at, and maybe he learns some deep and valuable lessons from all this.

I think it is quite funny that he purposely avoided EtH in his workouts to ensure he gets the loan he wanted. So all of that blowing up in his face and then him seeing DDG improve tremendously is a really nice combination for him. Unless he is too much cnut to learn from it. Which I think is possible.
 

V.O.

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Boondog said:
Looking at how much EtH and his coaching staff have improved DDG it's hard to imagine they couldn't make big strides with Henderson simply by getting him to do a better job in his positioning. He may be too much of a cnut for this club. But his bullshit decision making put him where he is at, and maybe he learns some deep and valuable lessons from all this.

I think it is quite funny that he purposely avoided EtH in his workouts to ensure he gets the loan he wanted. So all of that blowing up in his face and then him seeing DDG improve tremendously is a really nice combination for him. Unless he is too much cnut to learn from it. Which I think is possible.
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Not sure how much he could be improved with coaching. Unlike De Gea, his deficiencies are in fundamental goalkeeping, rather than mentality/tendencies.

His shit positioning could be improved upon, but he simply doesn't have the reflexes or technique to be even an average shot stopper for PL level.
 

sullydnl

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tomaldinho1 said:
An accurate use of stats this time. Much better.

Now where does that rank in the PL currently?
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Without being updated to take his game today into account and adjusted per 90, he's currently 15th out of 21 in the league according to Fbref. Just ahead of a certain Mr. De Gea in 16th. Overall Fbref's model has them as having conceded 2.2 and 2.5 goals more than they "should" have respectively.

berbatrick said:
How much do you trust the post-shot stats? (I don't fwiw)
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I think it's fine for for making general points like "De Gea was in better shot-stopping form in season X than season Y" or "X goalkeeper is generally a good shot-stopper". And obviously if it suits a random argument I'm making on the internet then I'll shamelessly cite it.

But in serious terms there are still a lot of flaws with the different models and we aren't as aware of those flaws as professional analysts would need to be to actually make effective use of that data. There's a reason clubs hire actual professionals and not any random idiot with access to Fbref.

That John Harrison guy gives a few examples of the models misrepresenting different chances in the video below, from about 5.05 min on, which make clear the kind of basic elements that still don't get captured in a lot of the stats we throw around.

 

Oldbird7

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sullydnl said:
Without being updated to take his game today into account and adjusted per 90, he's currently 15th out of 21 in the league according to Fbref. Just ahead of a certain Mr. De Gea in 16th. Overall Fbref's model has them as having conceded 2.2 and 2.5 goals more than they "should" have respectively.



I think it's fine for for making general points like "De Gea was in better shot-stopping form in season X than season Y" or "X goalkeeper is generally a good shot-stopper". And obviously if it suits a random argument I'm making on the internet then I'll shamelessly cite it.

But in serious terms there are still a lot of flaws with the different models and we aren't as aware of those flaws as professional analysts would need to be to actually make effective use of that data. There's a reason clubs hire actual professionals and not any random idiot with access to Fbref.

That John Harrison guy gives a few examples of the models misrepresenting different chances in the video below, from about 5.05 min on, which make clear the kind of basic elements that still don't get captured in a lot of the stats we throw around.
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True and on the surface it seems a better balanced assessment, however I would take ANY stats, especially on GK-ing with a grain of salt, given the amount of variables around it. People act like john Harrison's word is the gospel truth but if he were so accurate he would have been snapped up by a club long ago.

I disagree with him that out of the 9 goals he's conceded from outside the box, he only underperformed by 2 of them. That alone makes me skeptical of anything John Harrison says
 
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