Red Devils Lite | Belgium Discussion thread

Rubbish as expected.

Extremely lucky against Canada, got what they deserved today.

Gareth Martinez doing a good job.

Lads it's Morocco

Same old same old, all talk no substance. Waste of generationnal players with a Championship level manager.

mu4c_20le said:

Lads it's Morocco

Click to expand...

*Monaco.

They were talking about the exact same thing on Talksport in the buildup, saying whether they have wasted what is one of, if not the best squad they have ever assembled.

Quite clearly, very wasted

2016 Euros was there for the taking, but instead they got mugged off by Hal Robson Kanu

Awful performances, were lucky to get the win against Canada.

Tarrou said:

2016 Euros was there for the taking, but instead they got mugged off by Hal Robson Kanu

Click to expand...

That was their only underachievement but overall they did well to get 3rd in the last World Cup.

Can anyone explain the logic of not starting Trossard when he's been in brilliant form and instead starting Hazard over him? International managers seem far too fixated on reputations compared to there club counterparts.

Courtois is not, and never has been, the best keeper in the world.

They’re held hostage to the FIFA rankings and a respectable third place in World Cup, which got them stuck with Martinez and his preference of players he already knows. I think this year already the golden generation is starting to look worse even on paper, I’m not surprised the cracks are showing on the pitch too. They missed their chance to win something relevant, not the first and not the last country to do so, still ended up being quite good over the last decade and reaching the latter stages few times, it’s the best Belgians have ever witnessed.

2014 WC was before De Bruyne joined City and in 2020 Hazard was already at Real and done as a top player. This means they only had 2016 Euros and 2018 WC were they should've been favorites. In 2016 they chocked vs Wales and in 2018 they finished 3rd. They should've done more in 2016 but I think wasted is very harsh considering they had the best WC run in their history and a better run than countries like England have had in 50 years.

Typical Belgium, first gear its why it doesnt matter what their squad is they just dont have the balls to play with any risk or pace

King7Eric said:

Can anyone explain the logic of not starting Trossard when he's been in brilliant form and instead starting Hazard over him? International managers seem far too fixated on reputations compared to there club counterparts.

Click to expand...

I posted it in another thread but I wouldn't be surprised if managers follow this thought pattern:

• If I win, I was right to play the experienced veteran big names.
• If I lose, I now won't have to endure criticism of not playing the big names, and I can safely give minutes to the rest.

IMO they were an excellent collection of players 4-8 years ago whose manager held them back at the time, and now the same manager is being exposed as these players are well past it yet he's staying loyal to them as they carried him to decent positions.

King7Eric said:

Can anyone explain the logic of not starting Trossard when he's been in brilliant form and instead starting Hazard over him? International managers seem far too fixated on reputations compared to there club counterparts.

Click to expand...

Yea, same thing with Openda, he has been brilliant in Ligue 1 and is always agressive and a threat for the opponent. Instead he starts shitty Batshuayi and subs old man Mertens, broken Lukaku and 0 goal De Ketelaere.

A great collection of players who are past their prime now, who were held back by a crap manager while they were in their prime

I feel like you could rename this thread England in a few years.

Said it before the opening game Belgium are a little like England were a decade ago, just playing past it players on reputation rather than form.

How can Trossard score a hat trick at Anfield and generally be excellent for Brighton and yet he's just a sub in this tournament? Wout Faes has been really good for Leicester with many clean sheets to back up so another in form player who they could've slotted into back 3.

I liked Jeremy Doku's cameos during the euros but seems he's been injured and perhaps not kicked on in his career. Only new guy they've given a chance to is Onana and I'd say based on his Everton games he's still very much a work in progress.

So while it's not Golden generation part two they do have options but just starting Toby, Vertonghen, Hazard etc is only going to go one way. Rode their luck so much first game but got found out today.

Skills said:

Look to be losing. Have they wasted their golden generation on Roberto Martinez?

Click to expand...

Martinez needs to leave as soon as this tournament ends but I think the stick he's getting for previous years is a bit harsh.

2018 they produced probably their all time best result beating Brazil in QFs and they were unlucky with the side of the draw they were in. Give them England's half and they would've strolled to the final and been much fresher than Croatia were imo. Instead after playing so well to beat Brazil they then had France and narrowly lost off a set piece so very small margins.

In the euros they dug out a hard fought 1-0 over Portugal and then had Italy straight after so again little things and of course by then Hazard had amounted to a bit part player and De Bruyne went into that tournament far from fully fit.

No final but given them some of England's draws and they would've made the 2018 final imo.

I'd say losing to Wales under Wilmots in 2016 was a far bigger missed opportunity personally.

Their golden generation in competitions

European Championship
2016
2wins 1 loss in GS (vs Italy, Sweden and Ireland)
R16 - Won 4:0 vs Hungary
QF - Lost to Wales 3:1
FIFA ranking before EC 2nd / After 2nd


2020
100% record in GS (vs Denmark, Finland and Russia)
R16 - Won vs Portugal 1:0
QF - Lost to Italy 2:1
FIFA ranking before EC 1st / After 1st

-----------------------------------------------------------------


World cup
2014
100% record in GS (vs Russia, Algeria and South Korea)
R16 - Beat USA in Extra Time 2:1
QF - Lost to Argentina 1:0
FIFA ranking before the WC 11th / After 5th


2018
Again 100% record in GS (vs England, Tunisia and Panama)
R16 - Barely beat Japan 3:2
QF - Won vs Brazil 2:1
SF - Lost to France 1:0 / 3rd place playoff win vs England 2:0
FIFA ranking before WC 3rd / After 5th


2022
So far a lucky win vs Canada and a loss to Morocco

It was already obvious against Italy at the euro that our squad was aging and we had a year and a half to sort it out but Martinez has persisted with the same system and the same players from then to now.
Today, we pay the full price of his choices. It would be a miracle that we beat Croatia and make it out of the group at this point as we should already have lost to Canada.

I won't say anything bad about him because I think he brought a decent amount of success to our small footballing nation but it is time for him to go. I can no longer watch his system which I will call "Negative possession" where you are bouncing the ball between your center halves and they look like they have no idea what to do with the ball so they end up tossing it away.

I can no longer defend his choices... How does Mertens comes off the bench before Trossard ?
What does Witsel bring in his system ? He doesn't press/win the ball back, he doesn't offer a passing possibility to move the ball forward between the defense and the attack, he doesn't have good passing abilty, he is not good in the air, He is not famous for his long shot. Why is he still there ?
Bats, Hazard,Jan, Toby, ... We should have used the time between the Euro and now to replace them and change that system...

tl;dr : Thank you for your work Martinez but it is time for you to go.

Korwas said:

2014 WC was before De Bruyne joined City and in 2020 Hazard was already at Real and done as a top player. This means they only had 2016 Euros and 2018 WC were they should've been favorites. In 2016 they chocked vs Wales and in 2018 they finished 3rd. They should've done more in 2016 but I think wasted is very harsh considering they had the best WC run in their history and a better run than countries like England have had in 50 years.

Click to expand...

That is such a redundant statement. Belgium had a top team in 2014. They had one of the best defence in the world with Kompany, Alderweirald and Vertonghen all top of their game back then. Their frontline was one of the best too with Hazard who was one of the best players in the world, Dries mertens and lukaku. Their midfield consisted of Axel Witsel, moussa Dembele and de bruyne who wasn’t peaked yet but still a fantastic midfielder. That midfield was more than good. No one can say that they didn’t have a top team in 2014.

Their defense still hasn’t moved on from Vertonghen and Alderweireld, which is a sad indictment of the erosion in talent level from their peak a few years ago but I can’t understand why Trossard isn’t starting over a clearly over the hill Hazard in 2022.

Always thought the Belgium golden generation are a bit overrated anyway.

However, you can't help but think they should've achieved more than they have.

Martinez has been in charge for a while I believe which is odd because he's a bang average manager. A top manager would've got them to where they wanted to be I feel.

Something doesn't look right in the camp this time round though, they look like they can't be assed.

kaku06 said:

That is such a redundant statement. Belgium had a top team in 2014. They had one of the best defence in the world with Kompany, Alderweirald and Vertonghen all top of their game back then. Their frontline was one of the best too with Hazard who was one of the best players in the world, Dries mertens and lukaku. Their midfield consisted of Axel Witsel, moussa Dembele and de bruyne who wasn’t peaked yet but still a fantastic midfielder. That midfield was more than good. No one can say that they didn’t have a top team in 2014.

Click to expand...

We had decent players but it takes time to build a strong team. We were not the favorites at all as it was our first big tournament after not qualifying for anything for 12 years.
We lost in the QF 1-0 to the Argentina of prime Messi, who went on to lose 1-0 in the Final in extra time. I don't think this was a bad tournament at all.
Our biggest missed opportunities are the Euros 2016 and the first Edition of the Nation League.

i'm not so sure as to say it would fully stand up to the scrutiny of going back and reviewing all the games again, but i've been left with the general feeling now that Hazard didn't do nearly as much for them as a direct match winner at major tournaments as his club level performance and reputation suggested he should.

Martinez is too stubborn to move away from Hazard, Witsel or the aging defenders.
Not playing Trossard, Tielemans or De Ketelaere from the start will cost Belgium dearly and they will probably not qualify.
Even De Bruyne looks lost in his negative system.

I enjoyed it and will look back with fond memories to the past 8 years. I’ve lived through the shit years of 2000 and the small nation underdog years of the 90ies so playing the quarterfinals of the past 5 tournaments has been a delight. Maybe in 20 years time we will produce another great generation and we will have another go. When my son will ask me how it was when we finnished 3rd in the world cup just as I asked my dad about our 80s team that finnished 3rd, like my father I will talk about it with great joy.

I mean, Euro 2016 was a bust but 3rd place at a World Cup isn't a waste of talent. They lost to the eventual winners in France and they also beat Brazil.

This team now is too old. Its amazing they still have the same CB partnership who are way past their prime.

Bring back Fellaini.

We've thrown away our best generation ever with Wilmots, a man who had never really managed a side except a short and disastrous stint at a relegation side in the Belgian league and Martinez, who did a decent job at Wigan but then proceeded to fail at Everton. I never really believed in Martinez but had respect for the job he did in the first couple of years and during WC 2018.

After that though, he's shown a complete inability to adapt, an unwillingness to replace ageing and underperforming players and a lack of any tactical coherence on the pitch. A significant part of our core is clearly past it, but he refuses to start other players. People will point at the drop off in quality, but quality doesn't matter if you haven't shown it in years, as is the case with Hazard, Vertonghen, Alderweireld etc. Now we're left with an old guard who're clearly not motivated anymore, have lost their belief and are all pointing at each other.

It's a clusterfeck, but one we all saw coming and that makes it all the more frustrating. Most likely we're out of the group stage and that will that for this generation and Martinez.

Can't be mad at these players. They turned a country that was ranked 71 in the world, failed to qualify for 5 tournaments in a row and couldn't beat teams like Lithuania, Estonia and Kazakhstan into World Cup contenders.

But better managers could have squeezed a little more out of it you feel and that doesn't sit right.

Now it's time to turn the page, find a new manager and get some new talent into the team.

Showed no intent whatsoever till the last 10 minutes or so is what is the most disturbing thing about this exit. More poignant play from Croatia earlier, and they would have easily won it.

Roberto Martinez will find it difficult to land a good job post this.

I suppose thats the end of most of the “golden” generation of Belgium. Most of them won’t be there at the next tournament.

They need to rebuild a fresher and younger team.

I expected them to be shit, but at least get out of the group.

Typical belgium, stuck in first gear and can't finish their chances.

Immense talent but the structure around them is complete shit.