Kevin De Bruyne

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I think KdB is a fantastic player, one of the very best midfielders in world football and nearly unplayable on his day... However when things aren't going his way his attitude stinks, hands in the air , bitching at teammates and sulking.

Had he had more leadership qualities/ abilities I think he may have achieved more (he's obviously still achieved loads) over his career.

The man just isn't captain material.
 

CoopersDream

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cyberman said:
It’s telling that you have to pick one game from every other year to be honest. If I’m not mistaken you’ve even picked 3 CL ties that they’ve lost when they lost complete control of the midfield on top of that.
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What are you talking about? If the thesis is that de Bruyne dissapears when City goes out, then surely it's interesting to see that he absolutely did his part in three of the last four exists?

Anyway, to say it's "telling" is ridiculous - this is the majority of the knock out ties they have played in the past 4 seasons. Three of the other ties are against Shalke, Mönchengladbach and Sporting which I would think doesn't qualify as big games anyway (scored or assisted in two of those as well). Which means that he has scored or assisted in 9 of City's last 11 knock out ties in the CL. But yes, let's call this dissapearing in the knock out stages in the CL.
 

edcunited1878

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KDB is a class player. People list all these players who were class as well, but they too had class players around themselves and the team was top class. The revision on players based on major international tournaments are exhausting.

Guy has been one of the best players in the league and world for many years now.

His attitude this WC is poor, but he's also being cynical. Belgium is old and past their prime...but should have just toe the party line and play. Oh well.
 

cyberman

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CoopersDream said:
What are you talking about? If the thesis is that de Bruyne dissapears when City goes out, the surely it's interesting to see that he absolutely did his part in three of the last four exists?

Anyway, to say it's "telling" is ridiculous - this is the majority of the knock out ties they have played in the past 4 seasons. Three of the other ties are against Shalke, Mönchengladbach and Sporting which I would think doesn't qualify as big games anyway (scored or assisted in two of those as well). Which means that he has scored or assisted in 9 of City's last 11 knock out ties in the CL. But yes, let's call this dissapearing in the knock out stages in the CL.
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Here’s my point about KDB. He never had that season where he stepped up and everything went through him. He never had that season when he walked off the pitch and you could point and say he was absolute elite from day one to last. There’s too many CL games in a season, too many international so - so games that work against him. Do you know why it’s striking? Because he does have these games week in, week out for City. The difference is right there in front of your eyes. It’s like this World Cup, it’s weirdly being written off as though it’s not yet another example of KDB letting the game go past him. I could quote stats at you with Pogba and Ronaldo but we know stats aren’t everything and we know stats aren’t everything because KDB himself shows us it isn’t. It’s why I’m seeing posts about this odd assist here and there instead of big games that you point to and say feck me the opposition couldn’t get near him. In an era when people critique Ronaldos greatness because he didn’t score in a massive final that his team actually wins or Messi not winning one of his 5(?) Balon Dors away from Barca, to overlook such massive gaps in his CV is ridiculous. He is in those games with City that completely fall apart, that devolve into end to end madness and that happens on a yearly basis. You can point to Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Gerrard, Lampard. Scholes and Carrick spend about 3 years controlling games against the best sides in Europe home and away setting record after record for CL football as a whole.
Yes he is one of the best EPL midfielders of all time but falls short of joining that elite, elite group that either did it in CL or covered themselves by doing it for their country. Nobody is saying KDB isn’t anything but an outstanding midfielder but there’s that tiny piece missing somewhere that would make him legendary calibre. All he needs is one of those seasons ( for me) and he’s in but it really doesn’t look as if it’s in him
 

MostHandsomePlayer

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I like. He's being honest. Players are so boring and guarded. The comment about having been given MOTM cause of his name is hilarious. Which other star would admit?

Top autistic players?
Messi
De Britney
Owen

Not a bad kernel.
 

CoopersDream

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cyberman said:
Here’s my point about KDB. He never had that season where he stepped up and everything went through him. He never had that season when he walked off the pitch and you could point and say he was absolute elite from day one to last. There’s too many CL games in a season, too many international so - so games that work against him. Do you know why it’s striking? Because he does have these games week in, week out for City. The difference is right there in front of your eyes. It’s like this World Cup, it’s weirdly being written off as though it’s not yet another example of KDB letting the game go past him. I could quote stats at you with Pogba and Ronaldo but we know stats aren’t everything and we know stats aren’t everything because KDB himself shows us it isn’t. It’s why I’m seeing posts about this odd assist here and there instead of big games that you point to and say feck me the opposition couldn’t get near him. In an era when people critique Ronaldos greatness because he didn’t score in a massive final that his team actually wins or Messi not winning one of his 5(?) Balon Dors away from Barca, to overlook such massive gaps in his CV is ridiculous. He is in those games with City that completely fall apart, that devolve into end to end madness and that happens on a yearly basis. You can point to Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Gerrard, Lampard. Scholes and Carrick spend about 3 years controlling games against the best sides in Europe home and away setting record after record for CL football as a whole.
Yes he is one of the best EPL midfielders of all time but falls short of joining that elite, elite group that either did it in CL or covered themselves by doing it for their country. Nobody is saying KDB isn’t anything but an outstanding midfielder but there’s that tiny piece missing somewhere that would make him legendary calibre. All he needs is one of those seasons ( for me) and he’s in but it really doesn’t look as if it’s in him
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And my point is that is not really truthful to say that de Bruyne hasn't been good in the CL the past years. He absolutely has been brilliant in a lot of their ties, even some of those where they eventually went out. Even last year against Real he was exceptional, but he was taken off and then we all know what happened.

Anyway, you're confusing winning with controlling. Kroos, Modric and Casemiro seldom controlled the midfield but they did win a lot. Scholes and Carrick certainly didn't dominate top class opposition that often in Europe (they were actually ofthen dominated themselves when they came up against the best). Both of these examples certainnly dominated and controlled less than City's midfield with de Bruyne at the head. The fact that City hasn't managed to win yet seems to cloud a lot of judgments about him.
 

tjb

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cyberman said:
Here’s my point about KDB. He never had that season where he stepped up and everything went through him. He never had that season when he walked off the pitch and you could point and say he was absolute elite from day one to last. There’s too many CL games in a season, too many international so - so games that work against him. Do you know why it’s striking? Because he does have these games week in, week out for City. The difference is right there in front of your eyes. It’s like this World Cup, it’s weirdly being written off as though it’s not yet another example of KDB letting the game go past him. I could quote stats at you with Pogba and Ronaldo but we know stats aren’t everything and we know stats aren’t everything because KDB himself shows us it isn’t. It’s why I’m seeing posts about this odd assist here and there instead of big games that you point to and say feck me the opposition couldn’t get near him. In an era when people critique Ronaldos greatness because he didn’t score in a massive final that his team actually wins or Messi not winning one of his 5(?) Balon Dors away from Barca, to overlook such massive gaps in his CV is ridiculous. He is in those games with City that completely fall apart, that devolve into end to end madness and that happens on a yearly basis. You can point to Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Gerrard, Lampard. Scholes and Carrick spend about 3 years controlling games against the best sides in Europe home and away setting record after record for CL football as a whole.
Yes he is one of the best EPL midfielders of all time but falls short of joining that elite, elite group that either did it in CL or covered themselves by doing it for their country. Nobody is saying KDB isn’t anything but an outstanding midfielder but there’s that tiny piece missing somewhere that would make him legendary calibre. All he needs is one of those seasons ( for me) and he’s in but it really doesn’t look as if it’s in him
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I actually disagree with you. I think a lot of that narrative has to do with nostalgia. During Chelsea's peak between 04 and 2012, Lampard didn't control or dominate most big UCL clashes. He scored in them, but these games didn't run through him. It almost rarely happens. Even when he has a really good game, like the two legs against Real Madrid in 19/20 and was phenomenal in their run to the final in 2021.

He's also been the catalyst of many victories against rival sides in the top 6, with many games where a moment of magic from him, particularly against Chelsea, led to victory. These are massive games that had a huge sway on title. These are games that would be romanticized if Gerrard had done it, but due to how used to we are concerning KDB's brilliance in the league, they are forgotten about quite quickly. in the 2018 world cup, he was massive for Belgium against Brazil. That would be one of the moments you are speaking about.
 

Righteous Steps

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tjb said:
I actually disagree with you. I think a lot of that narrative has to do with nostalgia. During Chelsea's peak between 04 and 2012, Lampard didn't control or dominate most big UCL clashes. He scored in them, but these games didn't run through him. It almost rarely happens. Even when he has a really good game, like the two legs against Real Madrid in 19/20 and was phenomenal in their run to the final in 2021.

He's also been the catalyst of many victories against rival sides in the top 6, with many games where a moment of magic from him, particularly against Chelsea, led to victory. These are massive games that had a huge sway on title. These are games that would be romanticized if Gerrard had done it, but due to how used to we are concerning KDB's brilliance in the league, they are forgotten about quite quickly. in the 2018 world cup, he was massive for Belgium against Brazil. That would be one of the moments you are speaking about.
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De Bruyne I think gets the most leeway out of all the top players I’ve seen in the last few years, he didn’t show up for the whole first of last season yet still finished 3rd in Ballon d’or, people quickly forget about his bad spells while others on his level are judged with far more scrutiny.
 

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Righteous Steps said:
De Bruyne I think gets the most leeway out of all the top players I’ve seen in the last few years, he didn’t show up for the whole first of last season yet still finished 3rd in Ballon d’or, people quickly forget about his bad spells while others on his level are judged with far more scrutiny.
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Didn't Messi not show the whole first half of the season before and went on to win the Ballon d'or? The fact is just that it is much more important what happens on the second half of the season than the first in regards to the Ballon d'or.
 

Morty_

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CoopersDream said:
Didn't Messi not show the whole first half of the season before and went on to win the Ballon d'or? The fact is just that it is much more important what happens on the second half of the season than the first in regards to the Ballon d'or.
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So has Ronaldo at least once as well.
 

cyberman

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tjb said:
I actually disagree with you. I think a lot of that narrative has to do with nostalgia. During Chelsea's peak between 04 and 2012, Lampard didn't control or dominate most big UCL clashes. He scored in them, but these games didn't run through him. It almost rarely happens. Even when he has a really good game, like the two legs against Real Madrid in 19/20 and was phenomenal in their run to the final in 2021.

He's also been the catalyst of many victories against rival sides in the top 6, with many games where a moment of magic from him, particularly against Chelsea, led to victory. These are massive games that had a huge sway on title. These are games that would be romanticized if Gerrard had done it, but due to how used to we are concerning KDB's brilliance in the league, they are forgotten about quite quickly. in the 2018 world cup, he was massive for Belgium against Brazil. That would be one of the moments you are speaking about.
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I picked Lampard because he plays in a similar position. He played further forward and was the only link between Drogba and the midfield. He didn’t control games per say but the attack went through him and he had the defensive discipline to go the other way as well as he continually stood up time and time again. It wasn’t step up in quarters and disappear, it was step up in quarters, go to Barca in the semi final and work stupidly hard with 10 men and still play the great through ball to Ramirez for the goal. Even in 08 final he drags the team back with the goal and was arguably the best player on the pitch after that. KDB simply doesn’t have that, his one final he played in he was pocketed by Kante before coming off Injured.
People are blaming Martinez but these last two games are just a continuance of his form over the last 4/5 weeks. His only real impact in any game is the embarrassing dive v Fulham. I have every sympathy for players in this World Cup when week to week form has a huge impact coming into the competition like never before to be fair to him.
He’s great when City have the ball dominating and he plays in the inside right position and can play ball after ball into the box, he’s the best in the world with those crosses. When the game gets stretched and it becomes end to end it’s harder for him to get in those positions and ball carrying becomes a lot more prevalent, it just doesn’t suit him. With Haaland up top and his dubious on the ball skills, they’re not holding it up as much and it’s coming back a lot more as the season wore on and KDBs influence has lessened because of it. It’s become a trait now.
Rashford and Vardy have great records v top 6 sides in the league as well, that’s not where the difference is.
 
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tenpoless

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He is really good but he is a brutally honest kind of person who looks the future. His role in Home Alone shows you just how good he was at predictions at such early age, all his traps hit the target.
 

Glorio

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cyberman said:
Here’s my point about KDB. He never had that season where he stepped up and everything went through him. He never had that season when he walked off the pitch and you could point and say he was absolute elite from day one to last.
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Yes - however, those words are true about no human player ever.
Sorry - No player has been this. The best teams with the best players have always fallen apart from time to time where the entire team, including them have been poor.

If anything Pep's City is more consistent than most, and for the most part KDB is exceptional and the difference maker
 

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I think sometimes people forget that football is a team game. There are 10 other players on the pitch.
 

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Chief123 said:
That’s pretty damning about the premier league if the best player in the league isn’t great.
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He is great, but there is a question or 2 about the PL. Hazard, Aguero and KDB are the closest thing to an EPL top 3 of the best attacking players over the last decade. And they all failed to deliver in the CL with their PL sides. (KDB has been better than the other 2).

And Chelsea won the CL as soon as Hazard left.

(Salah may be there in that top 3, but he doesn’t help my point)
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black

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Pintu said:
He is great, but there is a question or 2 about the PL. Hazard, Aguero and KDB are the closest thing to an EPL top 3 of the best attacking players over the last decade. And they all failed to deliver in the CL with their PL sides. (KDB has been better than the other 2).

And Chelsea won the CL as soon as Hazard left.

(Salah maybe there in that top 3, but he doesn’t help my point)
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Salah doesn’t help no, and he’s clearly number one.
 

erikcred

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MoskvaRed said:
I’d give de Bruyne a free pass for his Belgian NT performances. it can’t be easy playing for a manager who is obviously out of his depth (see England’s golden generation under McClaren). His failure to really stamp his mark on the Champions League, however, is less easy to dismiss. it’s not lack of ability - maybe he‘s a too nice, well-balanced guy who lacks that bit of mongrel, as the Aussies would say.
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So he'll only play really well against Canada and Morocco if he has a billion pound squad around him and the world's best manager managing the team? That's embarrassing for the supposed best midfielder in the world.
 

Chief123

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Pintu said:
He is great, but there is a question or 2 about the PL. Hazard, Aguero and KDB are the closest thing to an EPL top 3 of the best attacking players over the last decade. And they all failed to deliver in the CL with their PL sides. (KDB has been better than the other 2).

And Chelsea won the CL as soon as Hazard left.

(Salah maybe there in that top 3, but he doesn’t help my point)
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I don’t believe achieving champions league success is the tool to decide if someone was great though. There’s far too many variables and luck involved to rely solely on that.

Pep is the best manager in the world for me and he’s still not won it with city who have been there or thereabouts the best team in the world last few years. It doesn’t take away from the fact they are a great team and he is a great manager.
 

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Pintu said:
He is great, but there is a question or 2 about the PL. Hazard, Aguero and KDB are the closest thing to an EPL top 3 of the best attacking players over the last decade. And they all failed to deliver in the CL with their PL sides. (KDB has been better than the other 2).

And Chelsea won the CL as soon as Hazard left.

(Salah maybe there in that top 3, but he doesn’t help my point)
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De Bruyne would likely have won it had Rudiger not smashed his face, which still amazes me that he got away with.
 

Adam-Utd

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One thing this shows is you need a great TEAM to look a great player.

There's no coincidence he looks unstoppable at times for City, but a poor Belgium with a weak base, he isn't anywhere near as good.

It reminds me a bit of Pogba back when he first joined.
 

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Adam-Utd said:
One thing this shows is you need a great TEAM to look a great player.

There's no coincidence he looks unstoppable at times for City, but a poor Belgium with a weak base, he isn't anywhere near as good.

It reminds me a bit of Pogba back when he first joined.
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This Belgium team is not good though. Maybe the comments were a bit out of line, but even if you can plug any other midfielder(maybe with the exception of Bruno) in this Belgium squad, I feel the result would have been the same.
 

tjb

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Chief123 said:
I don’t believe achieving champions league success is the tool to decide if someone was great though. There’s far too many variables and luck involved to rely solely on that.

Pep is the best manager in the world for me and he’s still not won it with city who have been there or thereabouts the best team in the world last few years. It doesn’t take away from the fact they are a great team and he is a great manager.
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Exactly, when did Ronaldo or Rivaldo win or dominate that competition. Yet both were at a point the best players in the world. Roberto Baggio was the best player in Serie A in the early 90's, didn't win a champions league.

Hazard was class. Debruyne is class and they were the best in the league over the past decade. Their clubs, not them, didn't win the champions league.
 

Chief123

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tjb said:
Exactly, when did Ronaldo or Rivaldo win or dominate that competition. Yet both were at a point the best players in the world. Roberto Baggio was the best player in Serie A in the early 90's, didn't win a champions league.

Hazard was class. Debruyne is class and they were the best in the league over the past decade. Their clubs, not them, didn't win the champions league.
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Yep. R9 was the greatest ever for me personally and never won the champions league.
 

SirReginald

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RacingClub said:
I think KdB is a fantastic player, one of the very best midfielders in world football and nearly unplayable on his day... However when things aren't going his way his attitude stinks, hands in the air , bitching at teammates and sulking.

Had he had more leadership qualities/ abilities I think he may have achieved more (he's obviously still achieved loads) over his career.

The man just isn't captain material.
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This sounds exactly how he behaved at Chelsea. Before he realized his potential. He was diabolically shit, couldn’t even raise his game for a league 2 team and then cried when he was dropped after.
 

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CoopersDream said:
Didn't Messi not show the whole first half of the season before and went on to win the Ballon d'or? The fact is just that it is much more important what happens on the second half of the season than the first in regards to the Ballon d'or.
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id love to know what season this is?
 

Bluelion7

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I don’t blame KDB on this one. Maybe he shouldn’t air it openly right now … but this team is old, slow and bad. Do they feel like they “owe” some of these players one last shot at a tournament or something? It’s weird frankly.

I can just picture KDB turning to try and thread an upfield pass to Hazard, only to realize he’s still behind him, and staring wistfully at the concessions in the stands.
 

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SirReginald said:
This sounds exactly how he behaved at Chelsea. Before he realized his potential. He was diabolically shit, couldn’t even raise his game for a league 2 team and then cried when he was dropped after.
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At Chelsea he just wanted to play, and all that stuff about him being difficult, throwing his toys out of the pram, training badly etc was just Mourinho running bullshit propaganda against him years later to deflect from the fact that he had a player that would go on to become one of the greatest players in PL history in his hands and he just didn't see his talent.
 
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cyberman

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Bluelion7 said:
I don’t blame KDB on this one. Maybe he shouldn’t air it openly right now … but this team is old, slow and bad. Do they feel like they “owe” some of these players one last shot at a tournament or something? It’s weird frankly.

I can just picture KDB turning to try and thread an upfield pass to Hazard, only to realize he’s still behind him, and staring wistfully at the concessions in the stands.
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What age is KDB?
 
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