Which nation is The Gatekeeper in international football?

Scandi Red · Dec 2, 2022

I didn't find a good term so I just invented my own: The Gatekeeper

The Gatekeeper is a very strong football nation that is still not quite top class. To clarify who The Gatekeeper is is useful for weaker nations as it gives them a tangible level to reach for. If you can consistently outperform The Gatekeeper over many years, then you should by definition be allowed to join the ranks of countries like Brazil, Spain, Germany etc. When thinking in these terms it's important to have a long term perspective. In other words, a golden generation shouldn't be enough to earn you the top nation seal of approval.

Croatia is the perfect gatekeeper in my opinion. They have never won a world cup(not when they were a part of Yugoslavia either) and they don't have a top class domestic league, but the football quality of the country is still undeniable. They have produced great footballers like Suker and Modric and they have only failed to qualify for one world cup since they became a country in the early 90's!

For clarity, I consider the following 10 to be the top nations in football: Brazil, Argentina, Germany, France, England, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Netherlands, Uruguay.

SalfordRed18 · Dec 2, 2022

1) You've not invented the term gatekeeper. It's a commonly use term in sports

2) You've answered your question in your OP in Croatia

3) Netherlands haven't been a top side for atleast a decade.

Scandi Red · Dec 2, 2022

SalfordRed18 said:
1) You've not invented the term gatekeeper. It's a commonly use term in sports

I didn't know this. I'm happy that I chose a good term then! :lol:

Scandi Red · Dec 2, 2022

SalfordRed18 said:
3) Netherlands haven't been a top side for atleast a decade.

Perhaps, but I would like to wait at least a few more years before removing them from the top flight. They still produce very good players, their domestic league isn't bad and they are generally better than most nations outside the list provided.

VanDeBank · Dec 2, 2022

Why is Croatia a better gate keeper than Holland? We've been doing it since the 70s and we're not a top side.

DRJosh · Dec 2, 2022

For some reason I feel people always overlook Croatia even with their proven pedigree.

Scandi Red · Dec 2, 2022

VanDeBank said:
Why is Croatia a better gate keeper than Holland? We've been doing it since the 70s and we're not a top side.

Ouch, if the Dutch themselves don't consider the country a top nation then I might have to reconsider! :nervous:

There can probably be multiple gatekeepers, though.

VanDeBank · Dec 2, 2022

Scandi Red said:
Ouch, if the Dutch themselves don't consider the country a top nation then I might have to reconsider!

There can probably be multiple gatekeepers, though.

Ive never considered England a top nation either. Growing up, I can't recall ever having thought of them as a team capable of winning a cup or going past quarter finals even.

Uruguay could be considered one, but maybe it's a bit disrespectful cause they won it a million years ago.

The Cat · Dec 2, 2022

Belgium?

SalfordRed18 · Dec 2, 2022

VanDeBank said:
Ive never considered England a top nation either. Growing up, I can't recall ever having thought of them as a team capable of winning a cup or going past quarter finals even.

Uruguay could be considered one, but maybe it's a bit disrespectful cause they won it a million years ago.

2004, 2006, 2018, 2020(1), 2022. I'd be shocked if they weren't capable of getting out the quarters the next euros too.

Sure theres a few in the 90s too.

Scandi Red · Dec 2, 2022

The Cat said:
Belgium?

I think they fall under my golden generation example, but time will tell!

Spaghetti · Dec 2, 2022

The Cat said:
Belgium?

That’s what I thought too. I’d rather play Croatia than Belgium.

Ødegaard · Dec 2, 2022

Not what you are asking about, but: Norway.
Always misses tournaments by a game or two.

VanDeBank · Dec 2, 2022

SalfordRed18 said:
2004, 2006, 2018, 2020(1), 2022. I'd be shocked if they weren't capable of getting out the quarters the next euros too.

Sure theres a few in the 90s too.

Well Im not that young anymore, so I didnt consider the recent success. I was more thinking of the time Seaman was in goal and the aughts. I dont think I ever saw a good England team performance. They were overrated because of good individual players. Cant say I was a huge follower but they were not Brasil/Germany tier.

Dan_F · Dec 2, 2022

VanDeBank said:
Why is Croatia a better gate keeper than Holland? We've been doing it since the 70s and we're not a top side.

Things must be bad if you’re actually arguing over which country is a better gatekeeper :lol:

Scandi Red · Dec 2, 2022

VanDeBank said:
but they were not Brasil/Germany tier.

There are going to be tiers within the top tier but I find it hard to deny that England is a top football nation, even though Brazil is much better.

Krakenzero · Dec 2, 2022

I'd say England could be a good example. Good results, lack of titles. All the better teams are multichampions. All the worse teams (bar the strange case of Uruguay) aren't.

massi83 · Dec 2, 2022

What makes Belgium better than Czechia, Sweden or Denmark apart from recency bias?

Skills · Dec 2, 2022

VanDeBank said:
Why is Croatia a better gate keeper than Holland? We've been doing it since the 70s and we're not a top side.

Netherlands have won the Euros and reached 3 WC finals

Abizzz · Dec 2, 2022

Scandi Red said:
There are going to be tiers within the top tier but I find it hard to deny that England is a top football nation, even though Brazil is much better.

Without winning anything in half a century? All depends how broadly one defines top I guess.

Scandi Red · Dec 2, 2022

Abizzz said:
Without winning anything in half a century? All depends how broadly one defines top I guess.

Yeah, I think so. England are chronic under-performers when you look at the players they've had during these years. I don't think England is worse than Portugal, Netherlands and Uruguay and I consider all of them top nations. But I might be a little more generous than most.

Krakenzero · Dec 2, 2022

The following is a list of official titles of the 8 WC winning nations:

Team	WC	Euro/CA	Confed	LoN	Olymp
Brazil	5	9	4	-	-
Germany	4	3	1	0	0
Italy	4	2	0	0	0
Argentina	2	15	1	-	0
Uruguay	2	15	0	-	2
France	2	2	2	1	0
Spain	1	3	0	0	0
England	1	0	0	0	-

This reinforces the England gatekeeping theory.

Marauder1 · Dec 2, 2022

Agree with England being gatekeepers, frequently progress to quarters/semis but no further, apart from the most recent euros.

iHicksy · Dec 2, 2022

Isn't gatekeeping the term for lauding it over others and deciding who gets to have an opinion on something based on their own purist, often misplaced ideals of the event?

E.g when Klopp moans about teams using the longball because it beats his teams and it's "not real football"

VanDeBank · Dec 2, 2022

Scandi Red said:
There are going to be tiers within the top tier but I find it hard to deny that England is a top football nation, even though Brazil is much better.

Like I said, I was going by my childhood memories, which excludes England's recent successful-ish era. I've always had way higher expectations of Brasil, Argentina, Germany, France, Italy and Portugal compared to England and Holland. That's why the last 2 are perfect as gate keepers. They can beat anyone on a good day, and people fear drawing them, but their actual chances of winning any given tournament are less than 1%.

Scandi Red said:
Yeah, I think so. England are chronic under-performers when you look at the players they've had during these years. I don't think England is worse than Portugal, Netherlands and Uruguay and I consider all of them top nations.

I don't recall that many mind-blowing performances that raised my expectations of the English in the late nineties or aughts (if there were any, let me know) By comparison, Holland had some wow performances post '88, Euro 2008 in which they dominated the group of death sticks out in particular and I'm sure more than a few people had us as favorites in '98, maybe 2010 as well.

harms · Dec 2, 2022

VanDeBank said:
Uruguay could be considered one, but maybe it's a bit disrespectful cause they won it a million years ago.

I thought about them first, early World Cup exploits aside.

SalfordRed18 · Dec 2, 2022

Krakenzero said:
The following is a list of official titles of the 8 WC winning nations:

Team WC Euro/CA Confed LoN Olymp
Brazil 5 9 4 - -
Germany 4 3 1 0 0
Italy 4 2 0 0 0
Argentina 2 15 1 - 0
Uruguay 2 15 0 - 2
France 2 2 2 1 0
Spain 1 3 0 0 0
England 1 0 0 0 -

This reinforces the England gatekeeping theory.

3/4 of Spain's wins came in the space of 4 years and have never looked like winning anything since (nor did they before the wins either really). Does that make Spain gatekeepers too?

Krakenzero · Dec 2, 2022

SalfordRed18 said:
3/4 of Spain's wins came in the space of 4 years and have never looked like winning anything since (nor did they before the wins either really). Does that make Spain gatekeepers too?

Maybe. They are multichampions tough.

Rhyme Animal · Dec 2, 2022

I thought Sigourney Weaver was the Gatekeeper…?

Rodgerzzz · Dec 2, 2022

Surely it's the Dutch, not only because their level isn't quite top tier anymore, albeit still competitive enough, but also because stylistically they demand an idealistic profile of football from their NT?

Demyanenko_square_jaw · Dec 2, 2022

Depends on how broadly you are setting the tiers at.

In sports if i see someone call a team/person a gatekeeper, it tends to mean they are above average and consistent, but never a contender for anything; a gatekeeper to the top 10/20 in the world etc...Netherlands is too historically successful to be a good fit. you can't be getting to multiple semi-finals and finals. if it's shorter term, they are a good fit for the last 5/6 years, as are Croatia or Uruguay.

RedTiger · Dec 2, 2022

I'd say Sweden is a bit of a gatekeeper type nation.

Dirty Schwein · Dec 2, 2022

Stoke away on a cold Tuesday night.

Countries wise, I always see it as Poland and Switzerland. They usually beat the teams they should beat and lose to the teams they should lose to.

KirkDuyt · Dec 2, 2022

Scandi Red said:
Ouch, if the Dutch themselves don't consider the country a top nation then I might have to reconsider!

There can probably be multiple gatekeepers, though.

We are overly critical really. We've had a shit spell last decade, but came in 2nd and 3rd in 2010, 2014 and have been consistentlt good since the late 80s (1990 didnt happen) If that's not good enough to be a top nation then I'm not sure what Uruguay is doing in that list. Or England :nervous:

The absolute power houses are Brazil, Argentina, France, Spain and Italy if you ask me.

After that it's England, Portugal, The Netherlands as almost power houses and under that Croatia and Uruguay etc.

Zetrio2002 · Dec 2, 2022

Denmark as well. Always in every competition and always qualifying to knockout save for this time.

abundance · Dec 2, 2022

Ok, I've no idea what's a gatekeeper is in sports, but,
I think,
the pattern is like this:
if you're a decently large country, you either are top shelf:
Brasil, Germany, France, Italy, England, Spain, Argentina
or seemingly never good at it:
China, India, USA ...

Then if you're small, chances are that the smaller you are, the better you may often be. During the years:
Scotland, Uruguay, Austria, Hungary, Czeckia, Sweden, Portugal, Yugoslavia, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Croatia...

KeanoMagicHat · Dec 3, 2022

Mexico, first time they haven’t got to the last 16 in 7 or 8 attempts and it was on goal difference.

If you’re shit like Germany in 2018, they'll beat you. If you’re decent you can get a draw. If you’re good you’ll beat them. So beating Mexico is generally a sign of a good team.

Kanu · Dec 3, 2022

England and Netherlands are definitely in the same tier in International football. Last 30 years Netherlands have been more impressive than England. I would say those 2 nations would be "gatekeeper". Not quite a powerhouse, but not far from it.

Bondi77 · Dec 3, 2022

This gate should be closed.

Real Name · Dec 3, 2022

Scandi Red said:
I didn't find a good term so I just invented my own: The Gatekeeper

The Gatekeeper is a very strong football nation that is still not quite top class. To clarify who The Gatekeeper is is useful for weaker nations as it gives them a tangible level to reach for. If you can consistently outperform The Gatekeeper over many years, then you should by definition be allowed to join the ranks of countries like Brazil, Spain, Germany etc. When thinking in these terms it's important to have a long term perspective. In other words, a golden generation shouldn't be enough to earn you the top nation seal of approval.

Croatia is the perfect gatekeeper in my opinion. They have never won a world cup(not when they were a part of Yugoslavia either) and they don't have a top class domestic league, but the football quality of the country is still undeniable. They have produced great footballers like Suker and Modric and they have only failed to qualify for one world cup since they became a country in the early 90's!

For clarity, I consider the following 10 to be the top nations in football: Brazil, Argentina, Germany, France, England, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Netherlands, Uruguay.

Good shout for us. Missed only one wc and one euro since independence, been 3rd in 1998 and 2nd in 2018, in the final four NL, all the while having a crap league and not much better infrastructure.

Dutch are a good shout also.

Which nation is The Gatekeeper in international football?

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