£340million broadcaster rebate

Pexbo

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Dumbstar

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Wow, that's a large chunk of money from clubs. Did the PL (clubs) not have insurance for this kind of situation?
 

sean9988

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really hope this is the end of the likes of sky sports. the sooner the premier league get their own channel, sorta like nil game pass the better.
 

duffer

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Are they not going to televise the upcoming games? Viewing figures will be higher, not lower.

If the clubs have to pay the money back they should not let the Sky cameras in and film it themselves, broadcast it for free and get their own adverts.
 

horsechoker

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Are they not going to televise the upcoming games? Viewing figures will be higher, not lower.

If the clubs have to pay the money back they should not let the Sky cameras in and film it themselves, broadcast it for free and get their own adverts.
I imagine they would if they didn't have existing contracts. Sky would probably sue if they did something like that.
 

Sky1981

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Do you guys take refund for unplayed matches?

How's that any different?

I dont like the tv giants myself but cancellation and refund arent exactly robbery. You get refunded for airline ticket, advance booking, season ticket etc.
 

Rozay

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I’ve been confused about it from the beginning. Broadcasters are enjoying record viewers, AND want their money back too. The thing is, there’s clearly something obvious I have missed because nobody who matters seems to be asking the question.
 

sullydnl

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This is exactly why voiding the league in its entirety was never an option. If this is the rebate they're looking for because games behind closed doors devalue the product they paid for then imagine the rebate they would would have been looking for if the games that have already been played were also "devalued" by being declared null.
 

golden_blunder

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This is exactly why voiding the league in its entirety was never an option. If this is the rebate they're looking for because games behind closed doors devalue the product they paid for then imagine the rebate they would would have been looking for if the games that have already been played were also "devalued" by being declared null.
Fair point. You have to wonder if money wasn’t involved would they have voided weeks ago?

bless poor little Liverpools aspirations saved by the money men. Who’d have thought?
 

Chipper

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I'd have thought viewing figures would drop but then I'm hardly an expert.

Many, probably the large majority of match going fans normally subscribe anyway so not being able to attend wouldn't see them becoming new customers.

Were subscriptions paused? If you're the fan of a team with nothing to play for you might reason there's no point re-subscribing again until next season.

With no football for a while viewers may be keen at first but a lack of atmosphere probably makes viewership drop quickly.

Not necessarily the club's problem but even if viewing figures stayed strong advertisers are probably going to pay less. Harder to sell product to fans at home if there's no atmosphere one would assume so you'd want to pay less for your advertisement to be played.

Edit- I suppose when it comes down to it the broadcasters are not getting the product they paid for. Hugely delayed, no packed out, loud stadiums, not even normal player celebrations following a goal or big result.
 
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tenpoless

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Now the team itself is a leader of PL clubs. First Henderson and now this.
Pretty sure other clubs don't need a leader and They will do pretty much the same thing.
 

Rado_N

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Fair point. You have to wonder if money wasn’t involved would they have voided weeks ago?

bless poor little Liverpools aspirations saved by the money men. Who’d have thought?
I really don’t think there’s any question about that is there? I mean, it unquestionably would have been.
 

90 + 5min

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It's really not. How do you think clubs like Bournmouth will survive without this money when it forms the main portion of thier revenue?
From the article "Broadcasters have suggested staggering payments - £30million for some, £10.5million for others - over the next two seasons to help clubs hit financially by the pandemic."

Let's say Bournmouth need to pay in 10,5. Just sell one player. Simply. I don't see any problem with that.
 

Skills

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We should start broadcasting our own games at the end of this TV deal.
 

Adisa

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Broadcasters want to eat their cake and have it. I would suspect viewing figures will be substantially higher.
 
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Are they not going to televise the upcoming games? Viewing figures will be higher, not lower.

If the clubs have to pay the money back they should not let the Sky cameras in and film it themselves, broadcast it for free and get their own adverts.
really.

not so sure about that.

giver the league is over, there is no momentum, the atmosphere will be strange and games will start off like they are in pre-season. Also lots of people will have cancelled their subscription, realised they don’t miss it, and don’t resubscribe - wouldn’t at all be surprised if there’s a big hit on viewing numbers.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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So even if the season continues, they are getting money back? Even though they'll be able to televise more games than originally planned due to the temporary lazing of the 3pm blackout, and even though they'll probably have more viewers than ever because everyone seems desperate for football to return?

If the season is cancelled, then a rebate makes sense. But getting a rebate despite the same fixtures (and more) still being on TV makes zero sense.

The "devalued product" line is rubbish. They have no idea how many people are going to tune in. Look at how many are flocking to watch the Bundesliga, just to watch live football again. When the PL returns, I am certain the viewing figures are going to be huge.
 
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This is exactly why voiding the league in its entirety was never an option. If this is the rebate they're looking for because games behind closed doors devalue the product they paid for then imagine the rebate they would would have been looking for if the games that have already been played were also "devalued" by being declared null.
ridiculous - do you think advertisers would be calling up sky asking for a rebate for adverts in September. Such uneducated nonsense.
 

Nou_Camp99

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We should start broadcasting our own games at the end of this TV deal.
Never happen. There has to be 7 or more clubs to refuse the joint agreement. United, Liverpool n Arsenal would definitely benefit from selling their own rights due to fan base size. Not sure the rest of the clubs would so it will never happen. Nor should it really.
 

Greck

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Sounds odd. Maybe there are details we're missing. If it was as unjustified as it sounds I can't imagine the clubs would have agreed to it at a time like this
 
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Never happen. There has to be 7 or more clubs to refuse the joint agreement. United, Liverpool n Arsenal would definitely benefit from selling their own rights due to fan base size. Not sure the rest of the clubs would so it will never happen. Nor should it really.
benefit in the short term. But in the long term, collective rights mean the league is more competitive. We don’t want to turn into La Liga.
 

Skills

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Never happen. There has to be 7 or more clubs to refuse the joint agreement. United, Liverpool n Arsenal would definitely benefit from selling their own rights due to fan base size. Not sure the rest of the clubs would so it will never happen. Nor should it really.
What happens if we just refuse to take part in the next collective deal? They can't force the club to sell their TV rights in the collective deal?
 

Nou_Camp99

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What happens if we just refuse to take part in the next collective deal? They can't force the club to sell their TV rights in the collective deal?
There is a 14 club majority rule I think. We can't refuse unless there are 6 other teams or more.

It's not in the best interest of the league though. Teams with small fanbases would be screwed.
 

Skills

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There is a 14 club majority rule I think. We can't refuse unless there are 6 other teams or more.

It's not in the best interest of the league though. Teams with small fanbases would be screwed.
But even then, Manchester United is an individual entity. We're not a franchise that belongs to the Premier League, so I don't understand how we can be forced to accept any deal?
 

Nou_Camp99

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But even then, Manchester United is an individual entity. We're not a franchise that belongs to the Premier League, so I don't understand how we can be forced to accept any deal?
For the good of the league. If we could do it we'd make 100 times some other clubs and the league would become ridiculously uncompetitive. It's never going to happen either so forget it.
 

Skills

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For the good of the league. If we could do it we'd make 100 times some other clubs and the league would become ridiculously uncompetitive. It's never going to happen either so forget it.
The league's already uncompetitive. The last 3 seasons title winners have averaged 100 points, so it doesn't make a difference. The clubs at the bottom end are also just wasting the money anyway by spunking 30-40m on crap and in turn inflating transfer fees.

We're the club who are giving up the most in the collective deal, while we're also the only ones who are stupid enough to believe it's making the league more competitive while our rivals win titles racking up 100 points.
 

RUCK4444

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Are they not going to televise the upcoming games? Viewing figures will be higher, not lower.

If the clubs have to pay the money back they should not let the Sky cameras in and film it themselves, broadcast it for free and get their own adverts.
Agree, boycott the games. Sky have leached off this league enough.

If the games are televised there is absolutely no reason to request a rebate. It's hardly the clubs fault there is a pandemic.
 

MDFC Manager

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So even if the season continues, they are getting money back? Even though they'll be able to televise more games than originally planned due to the temporary lazing of the 3pm blackout, and even though they'll probably have more viewers than ever because everyone seems desperate for football to return?

If the season is cancelled, then a rebate makes sense. But getting a rebate despite the same fixtures (and more) still being on TV makes zero sense.

The "devalued product" line is rubbish. They have no idea how many people are going to tune in. Look at how many are flocking to watch the Bundesliga, just to watch live football again. When the PL returns, I am certain the viewing figures are going to be huge.
I think you're right. However the broadcasters are probably just realising that they've actually overpaid (for the broadcasting rights) to begin with. They're just taking advantage of the situation to get some market correction. I don't think the next TV deals will be higher than the current ones and it wouldn't surprise me if they actually dipped.
 

Megadrive Man

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The league's already uncompetitive. The last 3 seasons title winners have averaged 100 points, so it doesn't make a difference. The clubs at the bottom end are also just wasting the money anyway by spunking 30-40m on crap and in turn inflating transfer fees.

We're the club who are giving up the most in the collective deal, while we're also the only ones who are stupid enough to believe it's making the league more competitive while our rivals win titles racking up 100 points.
I wouldn't say the leagues uncompetitive at all. Liverpool are on course to be the 5th different league winner in the past 10 years, that's more competitive than most leagues?

The transfer fees have been getting really out of control. Obviously this will change over the next 12 to 24 months due to the pandemic.
 

RedDevilzFox

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There are contracts for things of this nature. Clubs can claim "force majeure" but that wouldn't be without a lot of legal wrangling and destroying relationships. If both parties have reached this settlement, rest assured both are doing the give-and-take. It's probably for the best in the grand scheme.
 
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Brightonian

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I wouldn't say the leagues uncompetitive at all. Liverpool are on course to be the 5th different league winner in the past 10 years, that's more competitive than most leagues?
People never seem to get this, and I don't understand why.

It's clearly so much more competitive than it was. Between 1992 and 2011, the same 3 teams won 18 titles (plus Blackburn's in 94-95, of course). Between 2012 and 2020, taking Liverpool's win as a given, 5 teams have won 9 titles.
 
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edcunited1878

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There's no real rebate if it doesn't actually happen. The matches look like they'll be happening, so any full rebate to the broadcasters will not be realized. The broadcasters are shitting bricks because they lost out on fixed advertising revenue for the last 9 matches on specific days and cord cutting is happening at an increasing rate because the premiums you pay is based on the sports you watch when subscribing to cable/satellite.

Thus the rebate talk. This rebate stuff isn't really talked about in America because the leagues have a really good relationship with the broadcast partners and understand that short-term pain cannot get in the way of long-term gain.

On the other hand, the Premier League should have done a better job of outlining some language about guaranteed payments and how that shakes outs for club payments, etc. because clearly it wasn't that comprehensive.

"Most contracts signed with the National Basketball Association and Major League Baseball don’t have clear provisions for media networks to demand refunds on already paid broadcast rights fees, according to familiar with the language of the contracts. While deals do have so-called “force majeure” provisions, or “act of God” clauses that allow for refunds in some cases, pandemics may not be specifically covered.

Even if they are, networks might not enforce them given the long-term importance of their relationships with sports leagues. In the past, when strikes have shortened seasons, media payments for broadcast rights haven’t been refunded. Networks can’t afford to be too aggressive with the NFL and MLB, who can make or break media companies by divvying out their rights to competitors.

“Let’s say it’s a one-time only event, obviously you’re not going to pay,” Pilson said. “But what you’re talking when you have a 10- or 15-year agreement, year after year, you work it out in an accommodation of some kind.”"

There's nothing stopping the PL in saying, okay we and the clubs will reluctantly pay your rebates that you're demanding. But in the next couple of years when the domestic deal ends, we're going to shaft you because you shafted us and that's part of considering/negotiation the type of partnership we will have.
 

Sky1981

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But even then, Manchester United is an individual entity. We're not a franchise that belongs to the Premier League, so I don't understand how we can be forced to accept any deal?
They cant. But the we can't make the fa invite us to their league as well.

League football is by principle an event where fa is the host. You join the event and abide by their rules. Same as world cup and any other competition.

So unless actual teams started arranging their own match tough luck
 

Blackwidow

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Could it be that their is more midweek matches when they only can start the matches in two slots - in differences to the usual different starting times on the weekend?
 

The Boy

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But even then, Manchester United is an individual entity. We're not a franchise that belongs to the Premier League, so I don't understand how we can be forced to accept any deal?
Because the premier league owns the broadcast rights to premier league games and Manchester United doesn't. The rules can be changed if enough clubs vote for it, but given that, as has already been stated, this would leave smaller clubs with less revenue and bigger clubs with more, this is unlikely to happen.

My guess and it is only a guess is that if the rebate is paid it means at least some of the games (if the season restarts) will be free to air.
 

Ludens the Red

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The league's already uncompetitive. The last 3 seasons title winners have averaged 100 points, so it doesn't make a difference. The clubs at the bottom end are also just wasting the money anyway by spunking 30-40m on crap and in turn inflating transfer fees.

We're the club who are giving up the most in the collective deal, while we're also the only ones who are stupid enough to believe it's making the league more competitive while our rivals win titles racking up 100 points.
Once Joelinton settles, he’ll be a good player.
 

Cloud7

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Why would the broadcasting companies want to bite the hand that feeds them? You have to think for for companies like sky sports, the PL is a large part of what they have to offer, and if the PL were to ever say “Feck it, we’ll broadcast our matches on our own”, then the existing broadcasting companies would be in a mess, no?