£36 million front three, 55 goals.

Santoryo

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One can dream ^^
Please. You know very well you could be getting Haaland for free in a few years. Looting Dortmund and other teams in the Bundesliga is your favorite pass time :lol:
 

Andycoleno9

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Not bad for raw speed merchant, never a no9 player with weak mentality and kid who is not ready.
 

TheNewEra

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It sounds great, but you'd argue spending 200M on 3 forwards and winning trophies each year is better than paying 36M and not winning trophies for years (besides an FA Cup and Europa League).

It's going to be great for the future however.
 

The Cat

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I've already given my opinion on Sancho several times in this thread alone. Great player, but I don't think we need him anymore, not for the record-breaking prices that are quoted.
This is what I think too - the board will rub their hands and say no need. They might even be right - it will be fun finding out - this young man is exciting I just hope he is looked after.
 

GhastlyHun

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Please. You know very well you could be getting Haaland for free in a few years. Looting Dortmund and other teams in the Bundesliga is your favorite pass time :lol:
We're not alone in that, i know of a PL team or three who are eyeing the goods like Sancho, Haaland, or Havertz ;)
That certainly limits the big targets we can get for free.
 

DoomSlayer

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This is what I think too - the board will rub their hands and say no need. They might even be right - it will be fun finding out - this young man is exciting I just hope he is looked after.
They'd be idiots to be happy for saving money. My point is that such a huge amount of investment can be made in areas which cry for improvement. We need quality squad depth in attack at the moment and mainly someone to rotate with Greenwood for the next 1-2 years, so he doesn't burn out, I don't think we need definite starters though.
 

Lam

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Future thread: why we can’t win a league with a forward line up valued at 36m

I hope we have patience when they don’t fire (and also why we should add Sancho) and we don’t start threads to burst some bubbles.
 

roseguy64

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The only one that will be benched is Greenwood. Then, in 2 seasons time (maybe even less), we'd have to decide to sell one of Martial, Rashford or Greenwood, because each of them will want guaranteed playing time. As it happened with City and Sane.
There's more to City and Sane than just playing time. He was rotated in less because he wasn't putting in the effort that Pep wanted. Bad example.
 

roseguy64

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I can't take anyone seriously that suggests we don't need Sancho and/or Grealish to add to the forward line. It's like they weren't fans of the team before Sir Alex's reign ended.
 

DoomSlayer

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There's more to City and Sane than just playing time. He was rotated in less because he wasn't putting in the effort that Pep wanted. Bad example.
It's the most appropriate example. Sane is a world class talent and wanted to be a guaranteed starter, Pep never gave him that so he wanted to leave for at least 1 year now, of course he would not be motivated to put the effort. We would end up in a similar situation for sure if we get Sancho and would have to sacrifice one of our current first 11 forwards.

Just look at Martial under Mourinho. He was definitely very close to leaving, because Mourinho had him fighting for a place with Lukaku, Rashford and eventually Sanchez.
 

Revan

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I can't take anyone seriously that suggests we don't need Sancho and/or Grealish to add to the forward line. It's like they weren't fans of the team before Sir Alex's reign ended.
Sancho yes, Grealish I am not sure. He is not gonna displace Bruno, and Bruno’s fitness is top notch. Dunno if we need to spend big in a young player so he can play 10 mins every other game. I wouldn’t mind spending small in a reliable option who is willing to get the wage and play the occasional cup game.

Sancho on the other hand would be perfect. 4 great players for 3 positions.
 

passing-wind

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A space where Ole does deserve credit. Baring mind these are all the exact same players Mourinho had at his disposal.
 

roseguy64

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It's the most appropriate example. Sane is a world class talent and wanted to be a guaranteed starter, Pep never gave him that so he wanted to leave for at least 1 year now, of course he would not be motivated to put the effort. We would end up in a similar situation for sure if we get Sancho and would have to sacrifice one of our current first 11 forwards.

Just look at Martial under Mourinho. He was definitely very close to leaving, because Mourinho had him fighting for a place with Lukaku, Rashford and eventually Sanchez.
This article says it: https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/why...an-city-for-bayern/1a3638mukx1wc1jb5ccbrgd2ig

Pep wanted more out of Sane who was resting on his laurels. That's why he got less game time. It was a title challenge against Liverpool that was neck and neck. He couldn't afford to play him and that's when Bayern turned his head. Simple as. He wasn't giving Pep what he wanted and so got benched.

However, Guardiola believed that the winger was capable of even more.

“Leroy makes mistakes in the simple things – big mistakes. He has a lot to improve," Guardiola said after Sane scored in a 4-1 FA Cup victory over Burnley in 2018.

"He is a special talent, we need his goals, but it’s how he defends, [goes] backwards."

There have always been some concerns about Sane's work-rate, which led him to being in and out of the City team.

Also, at the end of the 2018 season, he was surprisingly omitted from the Germany squad for Russia 2018.
 

Keefy18

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The only one that will be benched is Greenwood. Then, in 2 seasons time (maybe even less), we'd have to decide to sell one of Martial, Rashford or Greenwood, because each of them will want guaranteed playing time. As it happened with City and Sane.
That's a bit ridiculous to compare.

If for arguments sake we signed Sancho we'd have 6 (technically 5 as Ighalo is a loan) players for 3 spots

LW - Rashford / Martial / Sancho (has played a few games LW)
CF - Rashford / Martial / Greenwood / Ighalo (due to head off though remember it is only a loan)
RW - Sancho / Greenwood / James

If we make the CL, along with 38 league games, FA Cup and League cup... we are talking about 55-60 games and there is enough there to share between 5 players and for each to start a minimum of 45 games each.

I can understand the argument against signing Grealish however as our CM is now overloaded, something which hasn't the case in years.
 

georgipep

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That's a bit ridiculous to compare.

If for arguments sake we signed Sancho we'd have 6 (technically 5 as Ighalo is a loan) players for 3 spots

LW - Rashford / Martial / Sancho (has played a few games LW)
CF - Rashford / Martial / Greenwood / Ighalo (due to head off though remember it is only a loan)
RW - Sancho / Greenwood / James

If we make the CL, along with 38 league games, FA Cup and League cup... we are talking about 55-60 games and there is enough there to share between 5 players and for each to start a minimum of 45 games each.

I can understand the argument against signing Grealish however as our CM is now overloaded, something which hasn't the case in years.
Do we sell or kill Daniel James (and even Chong, potentially) in this potential reality of yours?
 

Keefy18

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Do we sell or kill Daniel James (and even Chong, potentially) in this potential reality of yours?
No harm loaning Chong out is there? He hasn't impressed me much at all and a 1 year loan isn't the worst idea by any means.

Leaves 3 players for the RW.

Sancho obviously the logical first choice and Greenwood is still only 18 and would still get around 35-40 games no doubt about it.

We seriously can't be expecting to kick on and challenge Liverpool and City for the league with a RW set up of Greenwood, James and Chong in this reality of yours?
 

DoomSlayer

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This article says it: https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/why...an-city-for-bayern/1a3638mukx1wc1jb5ccbrgd2ig

Pep wanted more out of Sane who was resting on his laurels. That's why he got less game time. It was a title challenge against Liverpool that was neck and neck. He couldn't afford to play him and that's when Bayern turned his head. Simple as. He wasn't giving Pep what he wanted and so got benched.
Basically the same thing that Mourinho was saying about Martial. See the similarities now? I'm sure you remember Mourinho speaking exactly like that about Tony, if you want, I can find the quotes and post them here.
 

roseguy64

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Basically the same thing that Mourinho was saying about Martial. See the similarities now? I'm sure you remember Mourinho speaking exactly like that about Tony, if you want, I can find the quotes and post them here.
I'm not gonna compare a past it Mourinho with Guardiola.
 

DoomSlayer

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That's a bit ridiculous to compare.

If for arguments sake we signed Sancho we'd have 6 (technically 5 as Ighalo is a loan) players for 3 spots

LW - Rashford / Martial / Sancho (has played a few games LW)
CF - Rashford / Martial / Greenwood / Ighalo (due to head off though remember it is only a loan)
RW - Sancho / Greenwood / James

If we make the CL, along with 38 league games, FA Cup and League cup... we are talking about 55-60 games and there is enough there to share between 5 players and for each to start a minimum of 45 games each.

I can understand the argument against signing Grealish however as our CM is now overloaded, something which hasn't the case in years.
Do Liverpool have world class substitutes for their 3 main men in attack? Even someone like Shaqiri is getting irritated for not playing enough. I just don't see how we balance that when a £100m signing is basically the first name on the team sheet. It puts the other players in very peculiar situations.
 

Traub

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Does the academy operate at a net profit when taking account of player sales? I’m all for considering homegrown as free, but it’s a bit untrue if you’re losing millions in your academy every year.
 

DoomSlayer

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I'm not gonna compare a past it Mourinho with Guardiola.
Their current status in the game has nothing to do with comparing the cases of Martial and Sane. It was the same exact thing, I quite clearly remember Sane being crazy good when given consistent game time.
 

TheNewEra

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Does the academy operate at a net profit when taking account of player sales? I’m all for considering homegrown as free, but it’s a bit untrue if you’re losing millions in your academy every year.
The potential return on investment for academies is huge, it's not really the net profit, but having a youngster with huge potential and keeping them in an academy for 10 years, costs far less than a world class players weekly income I'm assuming.

Probably 30+ youth players, at 10 years in an academy costs less, and that's including staffing. You let some go if they don't progress enough, if you even get one good player in the batch of 50-100 you start with you'd still generate a few million. If you come across talents like Giggs, Scholes you have a loyal player in your squad that will make you tens of millions per year.
 

Keefy18

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Do Liverpool have world class substitutes for their 3 main men in attack? Even someone like Shaqiri is getting irritated for not playing enough. I just don't see how we balance that when a £100m signing is basically the first name on the team sheet. It puts the other players in very peculiar situations.
Is Greenwood world class? He'd be our support. He might well be some day but lets not jump the gun just yet and jinx it ;)
Is DJ world class? He'd be our support.

Again, when you play a 60 game season there's enough mins there to share between 3 players no doubt about it.

More so when you remember that Martial has a record of injuries / sickness. He's missed around 10 games approx each season to my mind with various ailments. Meaning Rashford or Greenwood take the CF spot and freeing up either of the wings and in turn playing time for someone else to come in.
 

DoomSlayer

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Is Greenwood world class? He'd be our support. He might well be some day but lets not jump the gun just yet and jinx it ;)
Is DJ world class? He'd be our support.

Again, when you play a 60 game season there's enough mins there to share between 3 players no doubt about it.

More so when you remember that Martial has a record of injuries / sickness. He's missed around 10 games approx each season to my mind with various ailments. Meaning Rashford or Greenwood take the CF spot and freeing up either of the wings and in turn playing time for someone else to come in.
I personally believe it's a much bigger gamble to spend insane amount of money on Sancho. We have a bad history with Borussia Dortmund players, Kagawa and Mkhitaryan never lived up to the expectations, though they had their odd moments of magic.

I personally think Greenwood can become a better player than Sancho as soon as next season. What has Sancho actually achieved to make him world class and cost so much money? Look at Barcelona and Dembele - I'm sure they regret being so hasty.
 

Traub

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The potential return on investment for academies is huge, it's not really the net profit, but having a youngster with huge potential and keeping them in an academy for 10 years, costs far less than a world class players weekly income I'm assuming.

Probably 30+ youth players, at 10 years in an academy costs less, and that's including staffing. You let some go if they don't progress enough, if you even get one good player in the batch of 50-100 you start with you'd still generate a few million. If you come across talents like Giggs, Scholes you have a loyal player in your squad that will make you tens of millions per year.
Thanks that makes sense. There’s probably societal benefits to having an academy when it comes to improving the area.
 

georgipep

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No harm loaning Chong out is there? He hasn't impressed me much at all and a 1 year loan isn't the worst idea by any means.

Leaves 3 players for the RW.

Sancho obviously the logical first choice and Greenwood is still only 18 and would still get around 35-40 games no doubt about it.

We seriously can't be expecting to kick on and challenge Liverpool and City for the league with a RW set up of Greenwood, James and Chong in this reality of yours?
I agree about Chong. James would be expected to step up and improve though. And I'm saying all this while still wanting us to sign Sancho just thinking how Ole will rotate but I expect him not to care about playing time of the non-starters (with notable exception of Greenwood) and focus on results and competition for positions.
 

roseguy64

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Their current status in the game has nothing to do with comparing the cases of Martial and Sane. It was the same exact thing, I quite clearly remember Sane being crazy good when given consistent game time.
And that was under Guardiola who bought him but felt he could do more and challenged him but he decided nah. Different to Mourinho/Martial where Mourinho wanted rid and decided he wasn't good enough at all. Pep still had belief in Sane and tried to get him to stay.
 

DoomSlayer

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And that was under Guardiola who bought him but felt he could do more and challenged him but he decided nah. Different to Mourinho/Martial where Mourinho wanted rid and decided he wasn't good enough at all. Pep still had belief in Sane and tried to get him to stay.
Going back to the original argument I was making, in the end City lost a class player because he felt he could get a guaranteed first 11 spot at another top club. And my point was that it would inevitably happen with us as well, we can't keep 4 extremely talented forwards happy at the same time, that just doesn't happen. Maybe if we were coming off a PL or CL trophy win, but at the end, talented players want to play regular football, so even that might not be enough.
 
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eire-red

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The potential return on investment for academies is huge, it's not really the net profit, but having a youngster with huge potential and keeping them in an academy for 10 years, costs far less than a world class players weekly income I'm assuming.

Probably 30+ youth players, at 10 years in an academy costs less, and that's including staffing. You let some go if they don't progress enough, if you even get one good player in the batch of 50-100 you start with you'd still generate a few million. If you come across talents like Giggs, Scholes you have a loyal player in your squad that will make you tens of millions per year.
Imagine all of the money that we have wasted on the likes of Rojo, Depay, Darmian, Di Maria and many others post Fergie. You have to feel that if that amount of money was pumped into global scouting and poaching the cream of the crop of Europe then that potential return on the investment is much higher, as you say.

Furthermore, I think having academy graduates in the squad just adds something extra, makes it all mean a little more to both the fans and players. That intangible that you can't measure in returns or pure monetary cost. When you compare City and United, is almost feels like even though United are such a global household brand, they're still have more local roots in the community than City, which is really special.

And the benefits just compound themselves from there. What young footballer would not want to join the United academy right now? Looking at Greenwood, Rashford, McTominay and William's in that squad, you'd have to think, 'I'll get a chance there.'
 

Red Star One

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I absolutely love seeing them play and they give me some of the best emotions since Fergie times. I so hope Martial can keep up this level of commitment and ambition and that we will not get back to discussions about his drive, whether he wants to leave and whether his mentality is holding him back.
 

Santoryo

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I personally believe it's a much bigger gamble to spend insane amount of money on Sancho. We have a bad history with Borussia Dortmund players, Kagawa and Mkhitaryan never lived up to the expectations, though they had their odd moments of magic.

I personally think Greenwood can become a better player than Sancho as soon as next season. What has Sancho actually achieved to make him world class and cost so much money? Look at Barcelona and Dembele - I'm sure they regret being so hasty.
I agree with you. I've seen enough Dortmund "world beater" turn into duds after leaving them. Unlike many on these boards I'm not gonna hastily label Sancho as World class because he's putting great numbers at Dortmund. We've seen first hand plenty of examples of Dortmund players not working out elsewhere and after seeing the likes of Barca who have recently forked 100m+ on players who didn't work out(Dembele, Coutinho Griezman) I wouldn't be so quick to jump on another bandwagon, especially a Dortmund one.

I say we go for Sancho if the price is reasonable but those 100m-120m prices being quoted just don't work for me because he's simply not worth it. Better and more proven players have moved for those figures recently and flopped, so it's not always wise to throw absurd amount of money for 1 player, especially one that has still loads to prove in better leagues.
 

Giggsy13

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When we had Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez, we went out bought Berba. There should be no question about adding Sancho and creating what could be the best group of young attacking players in Europe.
 

cyril C

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Plus ballon d'or bonuses and other bonuses, but the initial price was 36 mil.
No, 36m may be the 1st instalment, we put in another 8 or 9m after X no. of goals, which we paid up last year?
 

In Rainbows

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Going back to the original argument I was making, in the end City lost a class player because he felt he could get a guaranteed first 11 spot at another top club. And my point was that it would inevitably happen with us as well, we can't keep 4 extremely talented forwards happy at the same time, that just doesn't happen. Maybe if we were coming off a PL or CL trophy win, but at the end, talented players want to play regular football, so even that might not be enough.
City had Aguero, Jesus, Mahrez, Bernardo, Sterling, and Sane. Not comparable to Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, and Sancho.

I agree with you. I've seen enough Dortmund "world beater" turn into duds after leaving them. Unlike many on these boards I'm not gonna hastily label Sancho as World class because he's putting great numbers at Dortmund. We've seen first hand plenty of examples of Dortmund players not working out elsewhere and after seeing the likes of Barca who have recently forked 100m+ on players who didn't work out(Dembele, Coutinho Griezman) I wouldn't be so quick to jump on another bandwagon, especially a Dortmund one.

I say we go for Sancho if the price is reasonable but those 100m-120m prices being quoted just don't work for me because he's simply not worth it. Better and more proven players have moved for those figures recently and flopped, so it's not always wise to throw absurd amount of money for 1 player, especially one that has still loads to prove in better leagues.
It's unfair to label Sancho the same. Not only because he did what he did at a younger age, and was more impressive, but also because Sancho was a high end talent before going to Dortmund.

If Dortmund signed Cherki, would that all of a sudden mean Cherki is doomed to fail? If Dortmund had signed Greenwood and Greenwood dominated, would that all of a sudden mean Greenwood was doomed to fail? What you're saying is that it's only due to Dortmund that these players are shining and it's fools gold. I have a hard time believing that in regards to players who were seen as the best prospects for their respective age groups.
 

RedRonaldo

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I personally believe it's a much bigger gamble to spend insane amount of money on Sancho. We have a bad history with Borussia Dortmund players, Kagawa and Mkhitaryan never lived up to the expectations, though they had their odd moments of magic.

I personally think Greenwood can become a better player than Sancho as soon as next season. What has Sancho actually achieved to make him world class and cost so much money? Look at Barcelona and Dembele - I'm sure they regret being so hasty.
He is the most exciting young player out there, alongside with Mbappe. But that’s just my opinion. If Felix worth’s 113m, I think Sancho should be worth more than that. But that’s under different market though.
 

Redfrog

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It's the most appropriate example. Sane is a world class talent and wanted to be a guaranteed starter, Pep never gave him that so he wanted to leave for at least 1 year now, of course he would not be motivated to put the effort. We would end up in a similar situation for sure if we get Sancho and would have to sacrifice one of our current first 11 forwards.

Just look at Martial under Mourinho. He was definitely very close to leaving, because Mourinho had him fighting for a place with Lukaku, Rashford and eventually Sanchez.
Mourinho never had Martial fighting for a place with Lukaku. Lukaku played whenever fit and was the only center-forward in Mourinho's mind.

Martial and Rashford were in contention for the left spot. Martial kind of won the battle and when he was having a good run was shifted on the right side because of Sanchez. He then had a bad game on the right and was dropped.

Mourinho had his favorites players and never liked Martial it seems. He was unfair with a lot of players I think and covered that by throwing players under the bus.

If there is a real and sane competition among the players in the squad, there is no reason why we could not have 4 starters for 3 spots. But players have to feel they are rightly dropped and that they can win their spot back.

By the way, there is always some injuries in a season, there will be enough game time for everyone.
 

cyril C

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It sounds great, but you'd argue spending 200M on 3 forwards and winning trophies each year is better than paying 36M and not winning trophies for years (besides an FA Cup and Europa League).

It's going to be great for the future however.
But it can also mean spending a bargain 200m (instead of 300m) on Sanchez, James R and Coutinho and sit on the bill for the next 4 seasons... When things work out you are a genius, when they don't...
 

meamth

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Funny to think that Barcelona spent a fortune for their attack and it all comes to failure. Don't get me wrong, we had our failures as well with Sanchez and Lukaku, but Barcelona is on another level of epic failure.

I wonder how toxic it is in Barcelona fans community..