£930m: What City spent to reach Premiership summit

Leg-End

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If we have two options, our current owners or a mega rich owner I think its pretty clear most fans would rather have owners that keep our clubs finances secure, allow us to compete for the top players and not burden us with massive debt against our own club.

That's the lesser of the two evils.
 

Irwinwastheking

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...l-health-of-the-Premier-League-laid-bare.html

Cool table in the Times showing an interactive display of clubs financial Health.
Unlike other surveys, this focuses on the true cash income and expenditure of top flight clubs, giving a far more accurate portrait of their strength than the operating profit or loss figures which have been used previously.

The key figures here are a club's turnover, what it pays in wages and "other" running costs (comprising heating, lighting, travel expenses etc).

The working capital movements also demonstrate a number of cash items — money spent on buying stock for retail outlets for example.

Amortisation and depreciation are simply accounting charges and do not affect cash flow, but do need to be presented to show how a club's operating profits or losses are calculated.

When all the elements have been added up, it gives sight of a club's operating cash flow, the cash left over from revenues after their day-to-day expenses have been paid. After interest bills have been paid, a club's disposable income available to spend on transfers, or paying down debts, is revealed.
United seemingly in a pretty healthy position relative to our rivals.


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Copied from deleted thread!
 

Baxter

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If we have two options, our current owners or a mega rich owner I think its pretty clear most fans would rather have owners that keep our clubs finances secure, allow us to compete for the top players and not burden us with massive debt against our own club.

That's the lesser of the two evils.
Definitely. I'd love somebody to come in and wipe off the debt, and let the manager get on with the job. With our revenue we'd be able to pay for players without having to be bankrolled and that's the way it should be.
 

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If we have two options, our current owners or a mega rich owner I think its pretty clear most fans would rather have owners that keep our clubs finances secure, allow us to compete for the top players and not burden us with massive debt against our own club.

That's the lesser of the two evils.
The trend of modern day fans is they just want their clubs to buy success. Most don't care about how is funded; they would like somebody else to pay for it.
 

davisjw

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This does sting a bit.
Why? If this was done five years ago, we'd they'd be in the ditches and we'd look like the sugar daddys.

I'd like to see over the course of the entire PL what the difference is in our spending and theirs. Add Chelsea, Liverpool, and Arsenal to that too. I would guess that it evens itself out. Today, you must spend big to catch up. Like Chelsea, City's spending will start to relax.
 

RedRover

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I wonder what tune Cafites would be singing if someone did plough millions of quid into United and we started buying the best footballers in world football every summer.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - whilst I agree that money is indeed ruining football (it has been for a long time), it's not City's or the supporters fault. They're not going to turn around and say "Sorry Sheikh but you're billions aren't welcome here. We're happy being midtable every season".
Nail hit squarely on the head.

Jealousy from too many United fans - I've heard mates of mine spout bollocks about how too much money will ruin a club, yet my City mate is loving it - as he said: Stable manager, sensible owner, top players, good ground and building a brand with longevity. Frankly, he's more than happy.

United fans have had it good for years - watching their club buy top players for top money - and now the club can't and city can it's all tears about how its so "unfair".

It can be justified via moral arguments such as "it was our money" and "we still brought players through the youth team" etc but it boils down to the same thing. United were slinging £30 million about on players ten years ago, when it was a damn site more than it is now.

What can be taken from the current situation is that it very much appears that we're hamstrung by the owners and mountains of debt. It threatens to hurt us this year and years into the future if it continues.
 

Rooney24

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Can someone copy/paste the united bit. Can't access it on an iPhone. Ta.
Ten clubs had a higher net spend on transfers than United in the 2010-11 season. But this thrift was by choice: United have plenty of spending money. Between 2009-10 and 2010-11 wages grew by £23m, or 16.1 per cent. Yet still they made an overall cash profit of £6.6m in the first of those seasons (paying £30.4m in transfers after sales) and £32.2m in the second (transfer spending: £11.4m). If it were not for their takeover debts United would have had £87m in free cash to spend in 2011, more than Everton's turnover. Were it not for that debt, United could afford to sign an £80m player every summer.
 

Rooney24

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Why? If this was done five years ago, we'd they'd be in the ditches and we'd look like the sugar daddys.

I'd like to see over the course of the entire PL what the difference is in our spending and theirs. Add Chelsea, Liverpool, and Arsenal to that too. I would guess that it evens itself out. Today, you must spend big to catch up. Like Chelsea, City's spending will start to relax.
I think your answer is out of context. His comment is in response to mine that if it werent for the deby we could afford to splash out 80 million every summer.
 

Transfer United Till I Die

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Ten clubs had a higher net spend on transfers than United in the 2010-11 season. But this thrift was by choice: United have plenty of spending money. Between 2009-10 and 2010-11 wages grew by £23m, or 16.1 per cent. Yet still they made an overall cash profit of £6.6m in the first of those seasons (paying £30.4m in transfers after sales) and £32.2m in the second (transfer spending: £11.4m). If it were not for their takeover debts United would have had £87m in free cash to spend in 2011, more than Everton's turnover. Were it not for that debt, United could afford to sign an £80m player every summer.
Ok, so without exceptional costs we're pulling in a cash profit of £30-40m a year, whereas it could be £80m. I'm presuming that article doesn't mention the cost of paying that £80m player but I get the point.
 

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Exclusive: Why our solvency index is the best indicator of the current health of the Premier League

Premier League football clubs, like any household, need cash to survive. This is the principle which underpins Telegraph Sport’s analysis of financial well-being among English football’s leading clubs.

By Matt Scott

11:58PM BST 09 May 2012


Many studies have been undertaken before but they have always relied most heavily on the figures for operating profit and loss. This is the first to look at exactly how much real money is going in and out of clubs, a measure which anyone considering buying any business would want to see first.

When the cash runs out at a football club, administration quickly beckons, which is what happened at Portsmouth: it simply did not have enough cash to pay its bills.

Premier League clubs are carrying £1.4 billion of debt, which sounds frightening but need not be, if it can be managed.

It does become a major problem for clubs who cannot afford to service the debts from within their own core operations – Everton and Blackburn Rovers being among them. But most can.

Arsenal's net debt peaked at £318.1 million in the summer of 2008, but this was spent on building the Emirates Stadium and redeveloping Highbury into flats. As income grew to £3 million per match at the Emirates, Arsenal could shrug off an annual interest bill of £17.2 million.

With a strong football business that has consistently generated cash and property sales on their Highbury stadium redevelopment bringing in substantially more, the debt was worked down to below £100 million last year.

These incomes should continue long after the debt has been paid off, and it would not have been possible to harness them without introducing that debt in the first place.

It could even be argued that Manchester United’s £440 million of loans, costing more than £50 million a year in interest to service, have also given rise to fresh incomes. Had the Glazer family not taken over the club in 2005, their 2011-12 commercial incomes of £103.4m – more than the overall revenues of all but five other Premier League clubs – might never have been raised. It should be noted that in the final season before the Glazers’ takeover, United earned £1.7 million from commercial income.

The Glazers certainly scored a public-relations own goal by loading their takeover loans on the club, but their subsequent business decisions have more than made sure they are paid for.

Our analysis in the accompanying table shows the amount of money clubs have left over after all their running costs have been paid for, along with debt-interest payments, the best measure of their solvency, their financial health as standalone entities.

Premier League solvency index 2011

( Solvency index for 2010-11 is compiled using operating cashflow minus interest paid/plus received)

Index (£m)

Manchester United 70.332
Tottenham 66.388
Arsenal 35.922
Chelsea 29.035
Wolves 17.888
Newcastle United 14.923
Liverpool 11.540
Blackpool 9.859
Wigan 7.028
Stoke City 6.837
Aston Villa 3.386
Sunderland 3.251
Fulham 2.996
West Ham United 2.914
Everton -2.216
West Bromwich Albion -2.944
Bolton Wanderers -3.912
Blackburn Rovers -4.577
Manchester City -22.026


It can also be read as a metric of the transfer-market muscle of each Premier League club. For some, such considerations are irrelevant: Manchester City, Aston Villa, Stoke City and Bolton Wanderers are a few examples of clubs who have been able to punch above their weight in the transfer market due to the support of very wealthy shareholders.

Alongside United as the next-biggest success story of 2010-11 are Tottenham Hotspur, for whom Champions League qualification improved cash flow by £50  million. It meant that after all their running costs and debt interest had been paid, Spurs brought in £66.4 million in cash, money that in theory could be spent on player signings. (Although, with construction projects at their new stadium and training ground under way, Spurs’ board directed the bulk of it, £32.1 million, at those developments instead.)

For clubs whose participation in the Champions League has in recent seasons been more assured than Spurs’, the rewards are obvious. Arsenal, with £35.9  million, and Chelsea, with £29 million, both recorded very significant cash inflows, permitting them great freedom. How they used it reflects their two contrasting approaches: Chelsea invested £85 million in new signings while selling £24.4 million worth of players; Arsenal spent a net £1.5 million on transfers.

But the flipside is that some clubs’ incomes do not cover their outgoings after debt interest has been paid, and here Bolton Wanderers, Blackburn Rovers, Everton and Manchester City have had two seasons of consecutive cash losses. Bolton and City both have the support of wealthy benefactors but this analysis could have foretold the unravelling of relegated Rovers.

Indeed, if Blackburn and Bolton finish the season in their current League positions – second and third-bottom respectively – it will reflect their rankings in the 2010-11 solvency-index table. (There is one caveat: Birmingham City, who were relegated from the Premier League in 2011, have not filed their annual accounts, meaning only 19 clubs have been studied, whereas 20 competed in the League this year.)

The analysis underlines the importance of the £1.1 billion-a-year broadcast deal agreed by Richard Scudamore and his Premier League executives. In 2009-10, the final season of a three-year broadcast cycle, eight top-flight clubs recorded cash losses after paying debt interest, their core activities before discretionary spending such as transfer activity or spending on infrastructure.

When the new 2010-11 season brought a new three-year cycle and hundreds of millions of pounds more to the clubs, there were only five whose debts and operations brought a deficit – and of them, West Bromwich Albion only did so because of alterations in the corporate structure forcing a one-off, eight-figure repayment of debts. With so many clubs pedalling hard to keep up with their rivals, the release last week of a new tender process for the next three-year TV deal will no doubt have come as a relief.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...the-current-health-of-the-Premier-League.html
 

Transfer United Till I Die

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It could even be argued that Manchester United’s £440 million of loans, costing more than £50 million a year in interest to service, have also given rise to fresh incomes. Had the Glazer family not taken over the club in 2005, their 2011-12 commercial incomes of £103.4m – more than the overall revenues of all but five other Premier League clubs – might never have been raised. It should be noted that in the final season before the Glazers’ takeover, United earned £1.7 million from commercial income.

The Glazers certainly scored a public-relations own goal by loading their takeover loans on the club, but their subsequent business decisions have more than made sure they are paid for.


Stopped reading just there. I'm far from a glazers/financial doom lord but that is utter bollocks. And his figures are wrong.
 

Zen86

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We've still not seen the long-term repercussions of unsustainable expenditure by the Chelseas and Citys. They won't ever be regarded and supported like the Madrids, Uniteds, Milans etc and I for one will enjoy watching them crash back down to earth.
 

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It could even be argued that Manchester United’s £440 million of loans, costing more than £50 million a year in interest to service, have also given rise to fresh incomes. Had the Glazer family not taken over the club in 2005, their 2011-12 commercial incomes of £103.4m – more than the overall revenues of all but five other Premier League clubs – might never have been raised. It should be noted that in the final season before the Glazers’ takeover, United earned £1.7 million from commercial income.

The Glazers certainly scored a public-relations own goal by loading their takeover loans on the club, but their subsequent business decisions have more than made sure they are paid for.


Stopped reading just there. I'm far from a glazers/financial doom lord but that is utter bollocks. And his figures are wrong.
They are not wrong, the figures were reiterated on Talksport this afternoon by Professor of economics at Liverpool university and are in the public domain. Revenues from commercial activities have seen a unprecedented rise under the Glazers, that sir is a fact.
 

Stookie

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I care only about United. They will end up the same as Chelsea in a couple of years when this team breaks up and then i will laugh. City fans know this too and they also know that United will still be there.
 

Sky1981

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It's not always about money, I believe somehow the sheikh buying city is a good PR for them arabs (no racism intended)

I sure do not know about them till they bought City.

If you're talking about cost alone, sponsoship wouldn't make sense, because there's on direct profit generated. But the windfall from the image, branding, and advertisement goes beyond a simple math
 

Sky1981

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You'd be amazed how many people think of them differently after they bought City, Chelsea, or even Thaksin's international standing when he bought City years ago.

For the likes of sheikh mansour, 500M-1bn is a small price to pay for the prestige gained overnight, specially if city won everything. We're talking about corporatiions that are making billions on quarterly basis.
 

Snow

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I'm surprised City's wage bill is only second highest, and so close to ours. Can't be right surely?
Wouldn't call it that close. It's players and staff. Lots of different staff. Don't think the Sheikh gets any wages from the club. Martin Edwards does. So does the tea lady and we have a lot of Glazers on the board.
Plus it's based on last season. We won the league, scored way more goals. That equals to higher bonuses as well. I'm sure the gap is bigger after this season.

You think it's close but it's more money that what we paid for a player last summer. It's a yearly wage for a few Rooneys.
 

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They are not wrong, the figures were reiterated on Talksport this afternoon by Professor of economics at Liverpool university and are in the public domain. Revenues from commercial activities have seen a unprecedented rise under the Glazers, that sir is a fact.
The commercial income figure is incorrect as ReRichio implies; 1.7m is from the MUFC 2005 account and not the the MUL account. Commercial income for 2005 was approx 45m. Remember the NIKE deal signed by the PLC?
 

Transfer United Till I Die

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They are not wrong, the figures were reiterated on Talksport this afternoon by Professor of economics at Liverpool university and are in the public domain. Revenues from commercial activities have seen a unprecedented rise under the Glazers, that sir is a fact.
Contrary to they article commercial revenues pre glazers were £47m not £1.7. And increased revenue streams don't even come close to offsetting debt related money spunkage.
 

amolbhatia50k

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I wonder what tune Cafites would be singing if someone did plough millions of quid into United and we started buying the best footballers in world football every summer.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - whilst I agree that money is indeed ruining football (it has been for a long time), it's not City's or the supporters fault. They're not going to turn around and say "Sorry Sheikh but you're billions aren't welcome here. We're happy being midtable every season".
Of course its not their fault. But football really does need financial regulation. Success is no longer being truly earned through hard work and brilliance. And if its hard to do that without super daddys level up the playing field by more regulation to even things up. That's a better alternative than teams getting successful this way.
 

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Nail hit squarely on the head.

Jealousy from too many United fans - I've heard mates of mine spout bollocks about how too much money will ruin a club, yet my City mate is loving it - as he said: Stable manager, sensible owner, top players, good ground and building a brand with longevity. Frankly, he's more than happy.

United fans have had it good for years - watching their club buy top players for top money - and now the club can't and city can it's all tears about how its so "unfair".

It can be justified via moral arguments such as "it was our money" and "we still brought players through the youth team" etc but it boils down to the same thing. United were slinging £30 million about on players ten years ago, when it was a damn site more than it is now.

What can be taken from the current situation is that it very much appears that we're hamstrung by the owners and mountains of debt. It threatens to hurt us this year and years into the future if it continues.
Good post.
 

Transfer United Till I Die

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I know it's been discussed before but I can't find it. Did anyone calculate what our actual cash inflow is annually at the mo without exceptional costs?
 

Beachryan

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So in a super simplistic analysis - if United floated in Singapore or wherever, and were able to raise about £300m in capital - couldn't we just use that to pay off the debt? Then the Glazers would own 80% or so of the club - so would have control - and as long as the value of the club kept going up we wouldn't have to pay dividends on the stock.

We could then wipe out debts more or less overnight, pay the Glazers £10m a year for sh*ts and giggles and still have about £70m to play with in the transfer market/ other investments?
 

Transfer United Till I Die

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That could happen but the terms being offered on the shares are so restrictive and the shares over valued that it's tough to see it happening.

Vaguely related. Really interesting read from Andy mitten who is very well informed:

“Please welcome the Barclays Premier League champions Manchester United,” enthused Old Trafford’s stadium announcer Alan Keegan before Sunday’s muted victory against Swansea. Having either seen or heard the news of Manchester City’s win at Newcastle, the crowd were unable to muster the same level of enthusiasm.
Barring a miracle in the final league games this weekend, one wonders when United will next be champions. The Reds have lifted the title 12 times since 1993, far, far more than any English club. Football didn’t begin with the Premier League as Sky television sometimes like you to think, but United’s domestic dominance did. Arsenal and Chelsea have three Premier League trophies each, while traditional rivals Liverpool haven’t won the league since 1990 and Leeds since 1992.
Under Sir Alex Ferguson, United have seen off several challenges from newly monied foes. Lifelong fan Jack Walker bankrolled Blackburn’s rise and they won the league under Kenny Dalglish in 1995. That title sated Walker’s ambitions and he scaled back his investment, content for small-town Blackburn to be a big league club. Walker was sensible. Coming from a poor town of 120,000, Blackburn never had the potential to grow their support to rival the big clubs.
United and Arsenal then dominated until Roman Abramovich purchased and then pumped hundreds of millions into Chelsea. His club - and Manchester City - were far bigger than Blackburn. They’ve seen attendances and revenues surge since they were taken over by benefactors bloated from the sale of natural resources. Maybe those benefactors will one day sell the clubs for a profit, maybe they don’t need too.
A decade ago, United had the ability to outspend every other English club, but Chelsea’s Abramovich challenged that hegemony and surpassed it when they snatched John Obi Mikel after he’d already signed for United.
Chelsea employed a talented manager in Jose Mourinho, who is still the favourite to replace Ferguson. They won the league in 2005, 2006 and 2010, but their greatest strength is also their greatest weakness - an owner who hires and fires coaches without ever letting them establish the longevity and stability that Ferguson or Arsene Wenger enjoys. He sacked Mourinho in 2007 and the frequent changes since have hindered Chelsea’s ability to match a United who spent a lot less on players, though Chelsea are still a major force.
Enter City. Since being taken over in 2008, City’s Arab owners have ploughed £1.1 billion into a club which had for decades been a byword for cock-ups. When you consider that the Glazers have spent £500 million in interest payments since they took over in 2005, that’s a swing of £1.6 billion – the price of tipping the balance of power in their favour. City have bought some of the best individuals and are on the cusp of a first title since 1968. As long as they keep investing huge amounts in the finest talents available, they are likely to win many trophies - there’s not a club in the world who can compete with their buying power and every player knows it. I interviewed Lionel Messi in 2010 and he said little of note – until the tape recorder went off. As soon as it did, he wanted to know about City’s money and how they were so rich.
City’s wealth is bad news for United, who have been trumped several times for players because they are unwilling to shatter the pay structure. In 2009, United were confident of landing Karim Benzema – until Madrid blew United’s offer out of the water. It led Ferguson to say that there was “no value in the market.”
Madrid, United and Barcelona are by far the three biggest football clubs in the world, but the Spanish giants enjoy two advantages. Their revenues are higher than United’s thanks to a non-collective domestic television deal which is skewed in their favour. Their gross debts of €150 million are also small compared with United’s of €550. United’s annual interest payments are currently €55 million, Barça’s €15 million and Madrid’s €13 million. If Benzema wants more money, Madrid can afford it.
It happened again with another French player last summer. United had agreed for Samir Nasri to sign. Nasri had met Ferguson and later texted him, calling him “boss” and saying how he was looking forward to the move. Then City offered a wage which would have made Nasri United’s best paid player. If Nasri didn’t want to go to City, his agent certainly wanted him too. Money talked. It infuriated Ferguson, but he’d better get used to it because United are unable to compete financially with the Spanish giants, City and Chelsea.
United’s scouting network can and does identity the right talents from Benzema to Alexis Sanchez or Nasri, but United can be trumped by agents who want to create an auction among leading clubs.
It’s not only about money. Liverpool have spent far more on players than United in the last five years and look where it has got them. United still have a superior cachet to City or Chelsea, if not Barça or Madrid. More players want to play at Old Trafford, while Ferguson has proved to be a master despite the relatively limited outlay on players.
United have won four Premier League titles since the Glazers highly leveraged buy-out and one Champions League title. That was no fluke - United have reached three or the four Champions League finals between ’08 and ’11. Such success allowed United to grow commercially by attracting huge sponsorship deals which dwarf those at City and Chelsea, but such deals are only possible while the club remains successful. And to be successful United need the best teams. That’s getting harder when you have richer rivals.
Without a youth system to rival Barcelona to turn to, United are flummoxed. It all makes for depressing reading ahead of a summer when United fans want to see investment in the team yet while the outlook may appear bleak, there are positives.
United’s debt, which should never have been burdened on the club in the first place, is being reduced. UEFA’s financial fair play directive should limit the financial recklessness of City and Chelsea. United club’s revenues are still exceptionally strong and the side were good enough to amass 86 points this season after 37 games – a figure usually enough to win the league. Ferguson has worked a miracle time and time again and only a fool would write him off. He thrives on these challenges and he’s shown before that he can overcome the richest foe, however insurmountable the task seems at the time. And it seems just that right now.
 

Leg-End

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So in a super simplistic analysis - if United floated in Singapore or wherever, and were able to raise about £300m in capital - couldn't we just use that to pay off the debt? Then the Glazers would own 80% or so of the club - so would have control - and as long as the value of the club kept going up we wouldn't have to pay dividends on the stock.

We could then wipe out debts more or less overnight, pay the Glazers £10m a year for sh*ts and giggles and still have about £70m to play with in the transfer market/ other investments?
You really believe the Glazers will be happy to leech only £10 million a year from a billion pound business? Yeah of course the big money comes when/if they ever sell up but once we become debt free they can do as they please financially.
 

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Nail hit squarely on the head.

Jealousy from too many United fans - I've heard mates of mine spout bollocks about how too much money will ruin a club, yet my City mate is loving it - as he said: Stable manager, sensible owner, top players, good ground and building a brand with longevity. Frankly, he's more than happy.

United fans have had it good for years - watching their club buy top players for top money - and now the club can't and city can it's all tears about how its so "unfair".

It can be justified via moral arguments such as "it was our money" and "we still brought players through the youth team" etc but it boils down to the same thing.
United were slinging £30 million about on players ten years ago, when it was a damn site more than it is now.
That's the thing, though. It doesn't.

A club that spends money it has generated itself is clearly different from a club that spends from a bottomless pool of someone else's money.

No one needs to blame City or anything, but you have to acknowledge that basic fact.
 

Sky1981

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You really believe the Glazers will be happy to leech only £10 million a year from a billion pound business? Yeah of course the big money comes when/if they ever sell up but once we become debt free they can do as they please financially.
What can they do that they have not done to us? Sell out best players? sell our stadium?

They practically owned us as of this moment, debt or no debt. They could have done that debt or no debt.

And about leeching, I wouldn't so call it leeching, it's dividend for their shrewd moves in acquiring a profitable institution.

Let's all grow up and accept the fact that someone will always be there to take the profit, be it shareholders, owners, consortium, etc.

Nobody does anything for nothing
 

davisjw

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We've still not seen the long-term repercussions of unsustainable expenditure by the Chelseas and Citys. They won't ever be regarded and supported like the Madrids, Uniteds, Milans etc and I for one will enjoy watching them crash back down to earth.
Why? 95% of our fans live abroad and only support United because of smart marketing and our role as a dominate force for the last 20 years which incidentally enough was when the EPL, Serie A, and La Liga went global. If we ever lost our top dog billing and City and Chelsea start dominating repeatedly, we'd see a massive shift.

History only means something to those who grew up with it. Much like winning the EPL isn't any better to most foreign players than winning La Liga. We put far too much emphasis on ourselves and our league, a common English cockiness that has also cost us a role in FIFA.
 

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Contrary to they article commercial revenues pre glazers were £47m not £1.7. And increased revenue streams don't even come close to offsetting debt related money spunkage.
Actually they are correct just a little confusing, what the article is stating is that commercial revenues excluding Nike where 1.7 million. Compare this to the 70+ million that it was last year, excluding the Nike monies, which takes it to 115 mill.

Then look at the first 6 months of this season and we see another big jump in commercial revenue, over 12% Thats an 11 million jump in revenue in the first half of this financial year, almost 6 times the entire amount of commercial revenue per annum pre Glazers.
 

Zen86

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Why? 95% of our fans live abroad and only support United because of smart marketing and our role as a dominate force for the last 20 years which incidentally enough was when the EPL, Serie A, and La Liga went global. If we ever lost our top dog billing and City and Chelsea start dominating repeatedly, we'd see a massive shift.

History only means something to those who grew up with it. Much like winning the EPL isn't any better to most foreign players than winning La Liga. We put far too much emphasis on ourselves and our league, a common English cockiness that has also cost us a role in FIFA.
You give too little credit to foreign fans.

United have always been a very well supported club, even before the PL era. A significant reason for that is the romance that Manchester United has, much like Liverpool.

What romance is there supporting City and Chelsea, feckall is what.
 

Transfer United Till I Die

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Actually they are correct just a little confusing, what the article is stating is that commercial revenues excluding Nike where 1.7 million. Compare this to the 70+ million that it was last year, excluding the Nike monies, which takes it to 115 mill.

Then look at the first 6 months of this season and we see another big jump in commercial revenue, over 12% Thats an 11 million jump in revenue in the first half of this financial year, almost 6 times the entire amount of commercial revenue per annum pre Glazers.
If you're on twitter give @andersred a follow.
 

Sky1981

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You give too little credit to foreign fans.

United have always been a very well supported club, even before the PL era. A significant reason for that is the romance that Manchester United has, much like Liverpool.

What romance is there supporting City and Chelsea, feckall is what.
Not now, but 10 years onwards, perhaps.

There are many kids all over the world idolising chelsea, and probably will ended up supporting them as they grow old. Same as how we started to support United.

We're all glory hunters at one point in our life
 

Chabon

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It can be justified via moral arguments such as "it was our money" and "we still brought players through the youth team" etc but it boils down to the same thing. United were slinging £30 million about on players ten years ago, when it was a damn site more than it is now.
It doesn't boil down to the same thing at all, and it's idiotic to say so. Our spending, regardless of its source, was substantially less than what City have been throwing around in recent years, both in absolute and relative terms. City vastly outspend every other club in the league bar their evil chav twins, something we never came close to doing despite our occasional big signings. It's the same incoherent nonsense you hear from bitters (and some journalists) about us breaking the transfer record several times.
 

Zen86

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Not now, but 10 years onwards, perhaps.

There are many kids all over the world idolising chelsea, and probably will ended up supporting them as they grow old. Same as how we started to support United.

We're all glory hunters at one point in our life
We won't really know until 10, 20 or 30 years time.

I'd still disagree though. Success buys you fans, but club values and romance keeps them. I can't see anything romotely likable about Chelsea or City, unlike other top teams both in England and Europe.

It's just my opinion of course, but I do believe they'll just be a flash in the pan in the long-term.