His fitness and knees worries me. Too big of a risk for us right now.
Ødegaard available on loan?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Zidane out in the summer?
Guess that would explain why he wants a loan thinking he might get more opportunities under a new manager?
Zidane out in the summer?
Guess that would explain why he wants a loan thinking he might get more opportunities under a new manager?
Coman wasn't "elite" when he got sent on loan. That terms is reserved for top class footballers.
Yes to determine a player is not good enough to play for his parent club due to the fact he's been loaned a dozen times rather than breaking into his own first team is a lazy generalisation. Sure.
I'm sure he's Messi level but Madrid don't need him.
Bingo. There's a difference between an elite prospect and an elite player. Some of the former don't develop into the latter.
He's a good player however from what I can tell his most useful position is attacking mid. I'd guess he would be a decent option for the right wing with an obligation to potentially buy at the end of the season.
Ødegaard might or might not make it at the requisite level, but this argument is rather obtuse and spurious to be fair. A lot of valuable players slipped through the cracks at Madrid, couldn't hold a place down, didn't make a sustained impact at a young age and were loaned out and/or sold: Samuel Eto'o (loaned for three seasons before being sold to Mallorca), Juanfran (loaned to Espanyol before joining Osasuna), Theo Hernandez (loaned to Sociedad and now one of the best fullbacks in Serie A with Milan), Fabinho (made only one appearance for Madrid's senior team after he was loaned from Rio Ave), et cetera...and the same goes for Barcelona, really. Expanding the umbrella a bit, De Bruyne and Salah didn't make it at Chelsea, and so forth. To exacerbate Ødegaard's issues regarding chances with the first team, Zidane likes the settled contingent of Kroos, Modrić, Valverde in midfield half spaces ahead of Casemiro, the team plays without a conventional #10, and his fitness record has been a bit up and down of late with knee and muscle injuries — a portion of those aspects is beyond his control.
Whether he represents a good loan/signing for United is a tangential discussion. In theory, it could be an astute deal — something that could look like a masterstroke in the years to come as he is a visibly gifted and press-resistant player, versatile with the ability to play at #10, as a needle midfielder in a 3 or out wide as a playmaker (mostly on the right), and was one of the best players in La Liga following Messi and Benzema in the first half of last season. But there's reason to be wary because he would be looking for regular playing time (which might not be a guarantee), the Norwegian connection with Ole would invite undue pressure/criticism if he doesn't hit the ground running (same goes for the likes of Håland or Ajer if they were to join United), and there are the aforementioned fitness/consistency concerns too — which need to be probed. But all in all, it might be a risk worth taking as his potential is really high at 22 years of age still, and we need more quality in attacking and midfield positions — though if I were him, I'd be looking at a slightly lower profile club to regain his mojo (like Mönchengladbach, Ajax or Atalanta).
Fair enough, I thought that was what you were implying although i disagree with you. Ödegaard looks the real deal to me. He is just entering his prime and will be a top, top player between 2023-2029 when he is 24-30.
De Bruyne to City - 24
David Silva to City - 24
Kroos to Madrid - 24
Salah to Liverpool - 25
Ribéry to Bayern - 24
Zidane to Juventus - 24
Generally players need to mature, the Mbappes of the world just make us believe that 20 year olds should be further ahead than they usually are - even the elite ones. Xavi and Iniesta became elite when they were 24-26, Deco was better than them when they were 21-24.
We had the golden generation in the 90s and early 2000s.
Then we had crap for many years.
Now there is popping up great talents everywhere in Norway, and people have hope. Hope for the national team and our players.
Ødegaard, Haaland, Berge, Ajer, Hauge, Østigård, Larsen, Sørloth, Evjen and also a lot of other even younger talents are coming.
If not, we would have been just ashamed and negative as usual
Ødegaard and Haaland is the best we have now. And Ødegaard, wow, I have watched nearly all his games. If he can stop getting injured... he will become a player so fecking great.
Also, its about his technique, vision and silkysmooth touches. Its appealing to wach him play. Like art when he is in good shape and plays well. Like last autumn in La Liga. Dictating the matches and running 12-13km every match, keypasses and dribbles of high quality combined with super precise killer passes. Also got a lot better at the defensive work.
I can not stop praising him. But he has some serious problems to overcome injuries and seems a bit porcelain, unfortunately. Only in Vitesse did he stay fully fit for almost a season (started unfit). Hereenveen, and Real Sociedad, and now Real Madrid have been plagued by periods of injuries.
So with Ødegaard comes great risk and great potential.
But he quickly becomes a fan favourite when injury free and gets to play regularly. A great guy, super professional, plays lovely football when he is at his best level.
It looks like he’s headed to Sevilla on loan.
Er, yes, a lazy generalization is exactly what that is. And in this case, also wrong. But judging from the fact you choose to add an idiot strawman argument to your already impeccable list of argumentative fallacies, I shouldn't be surprised.
If there is a possibility for an option to buy I’d say go for it! If it’s just a loan then no thanks. Will be an established world class player for years to come imo, but not really had a chance to become match fit, and this isn’t the time for him to play himself into form in this team.
Impeccable list of argumentative fallacies eh? I’ve posted once in this thread but do go on...
I’ve acknowledged he’s talented, I’ve not written him off exactly have I. Just posed a feckin glaringly obvious question as to why he’s not broken into his own clubs first team. Because, ya know, it’s quite a valid question when considering a loan for said player.
I assume your Odegaards mother so let’s leave it there.
The lad wants consistent first team football like had last season when on loan. Him and his representatives would be idiots to suggest he come to another big club regardless if Utd or not. He needs a mid-table team in a top league where he can get lots of gametime and continue his development.
You really shouldn't do ad hominems. You're not very good at them.
In other words, you're assuming he's not good enough to play for Real Madrid because he isn't. Without bothering about context or actual specific knowledge about the situation. And you don't understand why that is a problem, it seems a perfectly fine basis for an opinion to you. Let's leave it there, yeah.
Your being the defensive one here bud. I just posed an obvious question, one that others have as well.
I didn't say he was categorically not good enough for us, what I did ask was why he wasn't fancied enough by his own manager. Again absolutely pertinent observation, one that @Invictus has taken the time to answer more thoroughly.
No, I said let's leave it there first!
You think he'd get in Dortmund's team? Why would they play him over Sancho, Reus, Hazard, Brandt, Reyna etc etc? Even if Dortmund bought him he might not get a game, never mind if he's only on loan.
He'd be great as a Bruno back up, but that's the problem. He wants a loan because he wants to play.
I doubt he will agree to join us as a squad member and there's no way he can bench Bruno or Pogba at the moment. So I think we just can forget about him.
I doubt he will agree to join us as a squad member and there's no way he can bench Bruno or Pogba at the moment. So I think we just can forget about him.
He is better than all of those in my opinion, bar sancho who is a different kind of player and plays a left winger. Martin plays CM, false 9 and right wing.
Ødegaard in 2019 form, would have been a great player for us, but he has been a shadow of his former self this last year. He is the most talented player I've every seen, but I'm very worried about this jumper knee problem. No point in loaning him, he is not good enough for us now- would spend the rest of the season trying to find some form, and if he did by the end of the season, it would be right back to Real Madrid, right?
If we could buy him, though, that would be interesting.
If we could buy him, though, that would be interesting.
Sensible for him to stay in La Liga for the rest of the season and hope things are different at Real when he returns.
He's a talentrd player and Real Madrid is far from ideal for young players development. I could see Ole being interested in him as part of a deal for Pogba in the summer.
He still has a lot to prove, he's not getting played at Real after having a good season last year. So he's either not working hard enough to get in the team, Zidane just doesn't fancy him or he's just not good enough.
This would be a bad move for him and the club. Why move from a club where your not playing to a club where you will probably not get played? There's no way he gets any real playing time ahead of Pogba, Bruno, McT or Fred. There's still Mata, Donny and Lingard to fill in those slots when needed.
It makes no sense. Hypothetically, if he does come in on loan and gets played, Ole will get roundly criticised for favouring a fellow Norwegian over "his" 40m Dutch midfielder that "he" brought in only a few months ago.
Anyway,I think it will be back to Sociedad on loan for him.
This would be a bad move for him and the club. Why move from a club where your not playing to a club where you will probably not get played? There's no way he gets any real playing time ahead of Pogba, Bruno, McT or Fred. There's still Mata, Donny and Lingard to fill in those slots when needed.
It makes no sense. Hypothetically, if he does come in on loan and gets played, Ole will get roundly criticised for favouring a fellow Norwegian over "his" 40m Dutch midfielder that "he" brought in only a few months ago.
Anyway,I think it will be back to Sociedad on loan for him.
But he won’t necessarily compete with DVB or Bruno for playing time. He played as a right sided forward for RS and would do the same here. He would compete with Greenwood, Mata and should fancy his chances of playing time. If he is fit, he could be a good signing.
I wanted him 6-7 months ago - but if Van de Beek cant get gametime here, why would Martin ?
See him more as a right sided player in a Pep type system than a counter attacking/direct system like ours. In ours he'd be a 10... so again... not our need.
I agree with you on that. It is risky for 6 months loan. I see he is considering Arsenal now, acc. to Romano:
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You mean, in person?
Odegaard is ridiculously talented. Some of you snubbing him like he's just another up and coming kid may have not seen enough of him. He oozes class. That said, I doubt he would want to join as a rotational option.
Really hope he doesn't end up at Arsenal, he's a proper player.
Would be the Ozil replacement they've been looking for, similar style of player but much harder working.
I would have loved to see him at United!
Would be the Ozil replacement they've been looking for, similar style of player but much harder working.
I would have loved to see him at United!
His best and most effective position is the role that Bruno currently occupies. Which is where he's played anytime I've seen him for Sociedad. Even though I haven't watched a whole lot of their games last year, it might not be accurate, transfermarkt has him as starting at centre attacking midfield 35 times for them.
Either way right wing / atracking midfield he'll be mostly on the bench, if he stays fit. For him as a player, it would be a total waste of time, he needs to go somewhere he's going to have a chance play every week.
Going back to Real Sociedad has always been the move that makes the most sense for him. This is a short term loan, about four months, and his priority is simply to play as much football as possible in a setup in which he is comfortable. Why would he go to a new league, new city, new manager, new tactical system where he would have to go through all kinds of adaptations?
I'm glad he is considering Arsenal but don't expect him to go anywhere else but RS. The one potential wildcard is if his relationship with Zidane is so broken that he actually just wants out of Real Madrid altogether. Then I could see him looking for either a loan longer than half-season or a loan+purchase option deal and going somewhere other than Real Sociedad (and richer than Real Sociedad) would make sense. But none of the reporting really suggests that he has given up on making it in Madrid.
I'm glad he is considering Arsenal but don't expect him to go anywhere else but RS. The one potential wildcard is if his relationship with Zidane is so broken that he actually just wants out of Real Madrid altogether. Then I could see him looking for either a loan longer than half-season or a loan+purchase option deal and going somewhere other than Real Sociedad (and richer than Real Sociedad) would make sense. But none of the reporting really suggests that he has given up on making it in Madrid.
Ødegaard's most common positions (for RS) can be found here (just scroll down a bit).
Why?
I just dont see that much of an upside to it
A good player who could give the team a short-term boost with little risk attached?
Where would he play ?
If everything goes perfectly, yes, and then we send him back in 4 months. Meanwhile he's taking minutes away from our own players that I'd prefer to see developing.
Maybe its just me. I just dont like the idea. Someone like Larsson - bringing lots of experience & pedigree, coming to the end of his career - makes sense to me. A young improving player, not so much.
I'd be highly reluctant to sign him permanently for those reasons, but as a loan with no obligation to buy I don't see it as an issue for us. If he's unfit or off form, he doesn't make the team, is shipped back to Madrid at the end of the season and he has cost us very little. I don't think Utd is an ideal loan move for the player at all though, as we simply won't play him if he's not on form whereas a smaller club with weaker options would be much more likely to give him time to play his way into form and fitness.
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