‘No value in the market’ - 2026

[sparx99]

Andy Mitten on the latest TOTD podcast mentioned that our transfer budget this summer is "£120-130m" and "you have to be careful not to blow all of that on one player".

Lots more wage stuff from Mitten and Whitwell along the lines of "if Mateus Fernandes, for example, comes in and he's earning more than Cunha, Mbeumo, Mainoo do you not think they're going to go knocking on the door asking why and looking for parity?"

Which creates a weird paradox where we can seemingly only pay legitimate world-class players a high wage, so as not to offend our good but not world-class players... but also we don't have the money to pay transfer fees for the world class players.

Also we quickly realised we wouldn't compete on wages for Elliot Anderson, so we talked to him about potentially being a future captain somewhere down the road instead.

I mean that has been a significant factor in squad building since the dawn of time.

We’ve just got Mainoo to agree to £150k a week and he’s arguably got a bigger reputation than Mateus Fernandes yet would be on £50-100k a week less.

There are an awful lot footballers out there earning less than £100k a week in Europe who are going to be able to come in and be pleased with the pay rise we are offering. £150-200k a week is still massive wages.

 

[JPRouve]

I mean that has been a significant factor in squad building since the dawn of time.

We’ve just got Mainoo to agree to £150k a week and he’s arguably got a bigger reputation than Mateus Fernandes yet would be on £50-100k a week less.

There are an awful lot footballers out there earning less than £100k a week in Europe who are going to be able to come in and be pleased with the pay rise we are offering. £150-200k a week is still massive wages.

To be fair, academy players wages grow at a slower pace. It's actually a point that Rummenigge made at the ECA, years ago, the idea was that top clubs should put a bigger focus on their academies because they allow for cheaper labor in the early years.

 

[Godfather]

Andy Mitten on the latest TOTD podcast mentioned that our transfer budget this summer is "£120-130m" and "you have to be careful not to blow all of that on one player".

INEOS really live in cuckoo land if they think this is enough to rebuild a midfield in this market.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

INEOS really live in cuckoo land if they think this is enough to rebuild a midfield in this market.

We hear it ever summer. United don’t have much to spend, then go and spend 200m plus

 

[Rozay]

This club is cooked.

 

[one340]

This club is cooked.

Can we stop wasting our time chasing unrealistic targets and focus on transfer that are actually possible?

 

[UnofficialDevil]

This club is cooked.

#mufc have made it CLEAR to Aurélien Tchouaméni.. Bunch of wankers

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

While I think @Rozay can be a bit OTT with his posts, I do agree with the broader point he's making.

I hope this window isn't a giant disappointment, but it's a bit worrying seeing our briefs and how we're trying to do business this summer.

 

[sp_cgb]

#mufc have made it CLEAR to Aurélien Tchouaméni.. Bunch of wankers

I wouldn't care too much for what Romano has to say on this deal. I doubt he knows anything and/or is just regurgitating some stuff he might've heard from someone earlier. They guy's whole MO is to farm engagement. Once some other journalist posts something, little ol' Fabrizio promptly has to come out with his jumbled version of it as well. It's like clockwork. And not worth paying attention to.

 

[Rozay]

I wouldn't care too much for what Romano has to say on this deal. I doubt he knows anything and/or is just regurgitating some stuff he might've heard from someone earlier. They guy's whole MO is to farm engagement. Once some other journalist posts something, little ol' Fabrizio promptly has to come out with his jumbled version of it as well. It's like clockwork. And not worth paying attention to.

He posts several deals before anyone else to be fair and is clearly connected, but I that said, I am hoping that he was lost in translation with this one as it just sounds too
ludicrous to be true.

 

[Redjazz]

In a world where every position requires a £65-75m investment, a top 4 squad costs ~£800m-£1bn in transfer fees alone every 5 years. Wages add another £1.5-2bn on top.
Against ~£3bn of revenue over the same period…assuming everything goes right.

So the model is: spend ~everything you earn just to hold your place, and one missed CL qualification blows the whole thing up.
Frankly unsustainable. Can’t think of another viable industry that runs like this. It’s gambling where some players have loaded die (city, psg etc).

The real winners are the stable mid table premier league clubs. No
Pressure to over extend themselves

That's about right.
And that is football for ya. The vast preponderance of clubs make losses. On a regular basis. And the vast majority of clubs aren't run to mask profits to begin with- they are non profits designed to produce spectacle, to be the best they can be. If they have money, they will find a way to spend it and then some.
The UEFA and PL fair play tests recognize this by stipulating that clubs just have to break even, and even then clubs are allowed to ignore certain costs.
In truth, Clubs, in general, are running below breakeven. They are not covering costs. Generally, there is "no value" in the market. The big costs, player salaries and transfer fees, are set around breakeven. In fact, the sugardaddy clubs, by manufacturing bogus commercial revenue are probably pushing these costs beyond breakeven for the market as a whole. The clubs that complain about no value in the market are those owned by shareholders who do not want to put money into the club's they own.
Some owners don't mind pumping money in to their clubs and indeed the majority of PL owners fall into that category. Some owners, on the other hand
are different. They talk about profitability as if its absence is an abomination, a threat to the very existence of the institution. It's almost a moral imperative that the club turns a profit. Of course, clubs that regularly turn profits don't tend to require funding from the owners, which, of course is convenient for the owners.
The thing about football, is that lack of profit or loss making doesn't cause big clubs to go bust. They always survive.

 

[Dominos]

Andy Mitten on the latest TOTD podcast mentioned that our transfer budget this summer is "£120-130m"

We'll see by the end of the window how true this is when we look at our net spend.

I feel like we hear figures every summer of our budget and we always go over.

We spent €173m NET last year so it would be a disappointment if we're reducing our budget from last year, from a position of strength now.

And frankly we might be in trouble if it's true. We left ourselves in a position where we needed 3 midfielders and a left sided player just to meet standard minimum depth of two players per position. £130m doesn't get you very far in this market when you need 4 quality players.

And when Zirkzee and Bayindir leave, an extra attacker and keeper will be needed though I can see us going cheap there for back up players.

 

[Dominos]

We hear it ever summer. United don’t have much to spend, then go and spend 200m plus

NET spend

25/26 - €173m
24/25 - €129m
23/24 - €149m


You would hope INEOS work on improving our underlying finances would pay off in increasing transfer budgets year on year, but we're yet to find out if that will be the case. And the situation over the lack of CL/Europe over the last two years can't help.

But yeah, if we end up with a lower net spend than last year that will be very worrying as good players are expensive and we need quite a few of them.

 

[dinostar77]

Depressing listen about the transfer market. Yearly interest payments to glazers, debts incurred under glazers and still having to pay for previous failed transfers are limiting what Utd can do.

Utd's hands are tied. Also self inflicted fiscal responsibility ala Daniel Levy at Spurs is playing it's part.

Do agree it would be interesting for Utd to look at data driven signings, especially if we don't have the money that others have to spend.

 

[Sunny Jim]

I think everyone would agree that 200 million for prime Messi would be worth it.

The issue people are having is spending 85 million on a player who is still young, still relatively inexperienced at the highest level and who's career could go in a million different directions. If we'd spent that money on Fernandes and it wasn't an immediate success, the same people would be having a meltdown saying we need to be careful about our reckless spending again.

Are we talking about the same Mateus Fernandes here? Not sure if you're on a wind up here or not.

This is the best point I've seen on here for ages.

If we're all agreeing that Mainoo is a starter then we need someone to compliment him. Fernandes isn't that man.

And if anything the thing we're gonna miss most about Casemiro is his experience at the highest level. Again, you're not getting that with him or Anderson.

I'm very much of the opinion that we need three midfielders this window. Two squad players and that almost guaranteed starter. Ederson and Santos for around 80 million (same price as Fernandes...) combined is about 10 million too much perhaps but at strengthens the depth in that area of the pitch. The priority then is getting that Casemiro replacement.

United have been briefing that they are professional, data-driven and all that.

I mean a player can always flop at United but if they have done their home work they should be confident in their choices.

 

[sp_cgb]

United have been briefing that they are professional, data-driven and all that.

They're certainly good at briefing their newest buzzwords.

 

[Chungy]

United have been briefing that they are professional, data-driven and all that.

I mean a player can always flop at United but if they have done their home work they should be confident in their choices.

Surely being data driven doesn't mean the player we identify is worth unlimited amount of money?

Surely it means that based on the data, we give him an evaluation as to how much he should be worth, and if the amount exceeds that by too much (esp. when we don't have that much money), then it means he isn't worth it?

Just because someone is first choice based on data doesn't mean he's automatically someone we'll buy no matter the amount?

I mean, just a simple analogy: I love sushi, I'd happily pay 100-200 quid for a good sushi dinner. That doesn't mean I'd pay 1000 for it.......

 

[Reds Under The Bed]

It’s depressing that so much of modern football discourse is about budgets.

 

[philippexyz]

Depressing listen about the transfer market. Yearly interest payments to glazers, debts incurred under glazers and still having to pay for previous failed transfers are limiting what Utd can do.

Utd's hands are tied.

As long as Glazers own the club and their debt is present, this will continue. Club will never return to former glory, competition is too strong and the damage they've done might be irreparable at this point.

United is a boxer fighting with one hand tied behind his back, for 20 years(and counting) now...

 

[Smores]

Surely being data driven doesn't mean the player we identify is worth unlimited amount of money?

Surely it means that based on the data, we give him an evaluation as to how much he should be worth, and if the amount exceeds that by too much (esp. when we don't have that much money), then it means he isn't worth it?

Just because someone is first choice based on data doesn't mean he's automatically someone we'll buy no matter the amount?

I mean, just a simple analogy: I love sushi, I'd happily pay 100-200 quid for a good sushi dinner. That doesn't mean I'd pay 1000 for it.......

I don't agree with that, we should be budgeting how much we can spend to fulfil a role in the context of our finances, the data should then drive the best options. The rest is just negotiation.

Data driven prices just means you're ending up focusing on value over fulfilling the role with the required quality. To put it simply, if the data confirms X player fulfils a key role then we should pay up to our budget for that role even if it might be seen as bad negotiation. You aim to save on your budget but it's there for a purpose.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

United have been briefing that they are professional, data-driven and all that.

I mean a player can always flop at United but if they have done their home work they should be confident in their choices.

This is fair, but from what I've seen, I don’t think we'd seen as Fernandes as the guaranteed starter that plays with Mainoo and Bruno. This is where that fee comes into play more.

I think we need five midfielders in the squad by August 31st. Your three starters and then essentially two upgrades on Ugarte so there isn't a mass panic every time there's an injury. Ederson and Santos being the later two players would be OK.

Our "first choice" midfield signing this summer then needs to be that Casemiro replacement and again, I don't think Fernandes is that. Anderson probably was but for over 100million, I think we were correct to walk away especially if he wasn't completely sold on us.

Last summer proved we aren't scared of paying the big (ish), money for starters. It remains to be seen if we do get that marquee midfield signing but it's still very early days.

 

[Buckfast in the Park]

This is fair, but from what I've seen, I don’t think we'd seen as Fernandes as the guaranteed starter that plays with Mainoo and Bruno. This is where that fee comes into play more.

I think we need five midfielders. Your three starters and then essentially two upgrades on Ugarte so there isn't a mass panic every time there's an injury. Ederson and Santos being the later two players would be OK.

Our "first choice" midfield signing this summer then needs to be that Casemiro replacement and again, I don't think Fernandes is that. Anderson probably was but for over 100million, I think we were correct to walk away especially if he wasn't completely sold on us.

Last summer proved we aren't scared of paying the big (ish), money for starters. It remains to be seen if we do get that marquee midfield signing but it's still very early days.

Has anyone ever signed four midfielders in one window? That’s obviously not going to happen, Man United isn’t Nvidia, its a relatively small business in the grand scheme of things with limited funds.
Why do we need 5 midfielders on top of a young Fletcher anyways?
Bruno always starts with a double pivot behind him, that’s not going to change. 3 will be more than enough.

 

[Red Comet]

Has anyone ever signed four midfielders in one window? That’s obviously not going to happen, Man United isn’t Nvidia, its a relatively small business in the grand scheme of things with limited funds.
Why do we need 5 midfielders on top of a young Fletcher anyways?
Bruno always starts with a double pivot behind him, that’s not going to change. 3 will be more than enough.

Watch all hell break lose as we inevitably lose Bruno or Mainoo for some matches due to injuries. I consider Mason Mount to be permacrock. Worst case scenario you end up with Ederson, Fletcher bros or with Collyer starting key match.

 

[MaMa given red]

Depressing listen about the transfer market. Yearly interest payments to glazers, debts incurred under glazers and still having to pay for previous failed transfers are limiting what Utd can do.

Utd's hands are tied. Also self inflicted fiscal responsibility ala Daniel Levy at Spurs is playing it's part.

Do agree it would be interesting for Utd to look at data driven signings, especially if we don't have the money that others have to spend.

People seem to be forgetting that we've just had a season with no European football whatsoever and only played a total of 20 games at Old Trafford. There was always going to be consequences to missing out on the money that those things bring.

As long as we are sensible this summer we should secure Champions League football again next season which puts us in a much stronger position in twelve months time.

 

[pelterz]

That's about right.
And that is football for ya. The vast preponderance of clubs make losses. On a regular basis. And the vast majority of clubs aren't run to mask profits to begin with- they are non profits designed to produce spectacle, to be the best they can be. If they have money, they will find a way to spend it and then some.
The UEFA and PL fair play tests recognize this by stipulating that clubs just have to break even, and even then clubs are allowed to ignore certain costs.
In truth, Clubs, in general, are running below breakeven. They are not covering costs. Generally, there is "no value" in the market. The big costs, player salaries and transfer fees, are set around breakeven. In fact, the sugardaddy clubs, by manufacturing bogus commercial revenue are probably pushing these costs beyond breakeven for the market as a whole. The clubs that complain about no value in the market are those owned by shareholders who do not want to put money into the club's they own.
Some owners don't mind pumping money in to their clubs and indeed the majority of PL owners fall into that category. Some owners, on the other hand
are different. They talk about profitability as if its absence is an abomination, a threat to the very existence of the institution. It's almost a moral imperative that the club turns a profit. Of course, clubs that regularly turn profits don't tend to require funding from the owners, which, of course is convenient for the owners.
The thing about football, is that lack of profit or loss making doesn't cause big clubs to go bust. They always survive.

The Glaziers bought us for £790m of our own money. The club is worth around £5/6 billion now. Football finance works differently.
This fiscal responsibility is purely to save money for the stadium not the team added to what Eth did. Will allegedly value the club at £10 billion. That’s a lot of good champions league runs.

 

[Ole's screen]

Depressing listen about the transfer market. Yearly interest payments to glazers, debts incurred under glazers and still having to pay for previous failed transfers are limiting what Utd can do.

Utd's hands are tied. Also self inflicted fiscal responsibility ala Daniel Levy at Spurs is playing it's part.

Do agree it would be interesting for Utd to look at data driven signings, especially if we don't have the money that others have to spend.

The thing is other teams can see the data too. M. fernandes was the data driven target - someone from the relegated team who had elite data, but you have to be willing to pay top dollar for that or you just get left behind.

 

[davidmichael]

Ineos just aren’t able to read a room at all in regards to the reality of current day transfers and the fact other clubs in the PL don’t need to sell any more as well as the fact we’re not as desirable as we once was, at best we’re a CL spot club and to push on we can’t be cheap cnuts and expect players to want to join us because of who we once were.

I’m not one for being in panic mode but the way Ineos are acting is basically setting Carrick to fail as it’s clear we need quality in midfield and reality is other clubs know our needs too, if Ineos spend all window chasing players then telling them this is the limit of whats on offer because they should be grateful to play for United we’ll end up with Tyler Adams and Baleba alongside Ederson as our big midfield rebuild then fire Carrick when we struggle navigating four competitions.

 

[Roboc7]

Depressing listen about the transfer market. Yearly interest payments to glazers, debts incurred under glazers and still having to pay for previous failed transfers are limiting what Utd can do.

Utd's hands are tied. Also self inflicted fiscal responsibility ala Daniel Levy at Spurs is playing it's part.

Do agree it would be interesting for Utd to look at data driven signings, especially if we don't have the money that others have to spend.

It is the reality though, when you look at the gaps in our squad, the players whose contract expire over the next couple years and who we could sell for big money it’s pretty clear you can’t build a squad by lavishing huge fees on likes of Anderson, Tonali and Fernandes.

They are attempting to balance theburden and legacy of financial mismanagement and build a better squad at the same time. It’s possible to do it but it’s not easy. We desperately need a few years of qualifying for the Champions League but you look at our squad it’s not fit for purpose in terms of competing on multiple fronts.

We’ve been behind the curve in squad management, whilst we were spending money we didn’t have on Casemiro, Madrid were investing that money they got on Tchouameni. We’ve got nothing back and have to replace Casemiro, they can retain the player they signed for years and sell him further down the line or sell him now and reinvest.

The club was just run so badly for such a long period of time. Like last summer I imagine our net spend will be 150m or so in that region in the end but that will still leave a squad with plenty of difficiencies.

 

[sparx99]

Ineos just aren’t able to read a room at all in regards to the reality of current day transfers and the fact other clubs in the PL don’t need to sell any more as well as the fact we’re not as desirable as we once was, at best we’re a CL spot club and to push on we can’t be cheap cnuts and expect players to want to join us because of who we once were.

I’m not one for being in panic mode but the way Ineos are acting is basically setting Carrick to fail as it’s clear we need quality in midfield and reality is other clubs know our needs too, if Ineos spend all window chasing players then telling them this is the limit of whats on offer because they should be grateful to play for United we’ll end up with Tyler Adams and Baleba alongside Ederson as our big midfield rebuild then fire Carrick when we struggle navigating four competitions.

Spending money isn't a guarantee of anything. By all means, the owners should invest some cash, and we should spend £500m or whatever, but you still have to spend it well. Whatever people think of the Glazers spending money on transfers hasn't been the issue, it's been spending it well.

The natural course correction isn't to be cheap, but to try to spend better.

 

[RickFlairsHair]

Depressing listen about the transfer market... Do agree it would be interesting for Utd to look at data driven signings, especially if we don't have the money that others have to spend.

We should doing this as model #1 anyway, regardless of whether our hands are tied.

What United lack is a data culture at the club, either in the back office or within the sport side.

The data-driven recruitment needs to be built in combination with a new philosophy of player profile, emphasizing athletic players rather than the small, technical ones we current produce every year.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

Has anyone ever signed four midfielders in one window? That’s obviously not going to happen, Man United isn’t Nvidia, its a relatively small business in the grand scheme of things with limited funds.
Why do we need 5 midfielders on top of a young Fletcher anyways?
Bruno always starts with a double pivot behind him, that’s not going to change. 3 will be more than enough.

I was including Bruno has one of the 5 tbf.

I think him, Mainoo and the Casemiro replacement are the first choice three.

Then Ederson and Santos potentially as the back ups with maybe Fletcher or Collyer to play the odd game until January.

If Fernandes had been signed, he would have been either competing/rotating with Mainoo or Bruno which going back to my original point means I'm glad we didn't spend 85 million on him.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

Spending money isn't a guarantee of anything. By all means, the owners should invest some cash, and we should spend £500m or whatever, but you still have to spend it well. Whatever people think of the Glazers spending money on transfers hasn't been the issue, it's been spending it well.

The natural course correction isn't to be cheap, but to try to spend better.

I remember everyone having a meltdown in 2006 when we signed our current manager as a replacement for another legendary midfielder.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Spending money isn't a guarantee of anything. By all means, the owners should invest some cash, and we should spend £500m or whatever, but you still have to spend it well. Whatever people think of the Glazers spending money on transfers hasn't been the issue, it's been spending it well.

The natural course correction isn't to be cheap, but to try to spend better.

I also think a big issue is when we spend too, in recent years the heaviest investment has generally come on the back of a poor season, and if we return to the Champions League we rarely show ambition to build upon that.

 

[Champ]

Ineos just aren’t able to read a room at all in regards to the reality of current day transfers and the fact other clubs in the PL don’t need to sell any more as well as the fact we’re not as desirable as we once was, at best we’re a CL spot club and to push on we can’t be cheap cnuts and expect players to want to join us because of who we once were.

I’m not one for being in panic mode but the way Ineos are acting is basically setting Carrick to fail as it’s clear we need quality in midfield and reality is other clubs know our needs too, if Ineos spend all window chasing players then telling them this is the limit of whats on offer because they should be grateful to play for United we’ll end up with Tyler Adams and Baleba alongside Ederson as our big midfield rebuild then fire Carrick when we struggle navigating four competitions.

What would you prefer as a window:

Tchouameni and Ederson,
Or
Ederson, Baleba/Berge, Adams and a left back?

 

[LoyalUnitedFan]

85M for Tchouameni is great value in 2026's market
he is much better than two mid midfielders

 

[7even]

Just a small reminder of what Omar Berrada said about United’s transfer strategy:

- We have a clear transfer strategy and won’t make decisions on the fly.

- Our aim is to strengthen the squad, but only with players who fit both the team’s needs and the club’s financial framework.

- We won’t overpay simply because the market becomes inflated. If a deal doesn’t represent good value, we’re prepared to move on to other targets.

- Every signing has to make sense in the long term, not just solve a short-term problem.

- We want players who fit the manager’s style of play, the culture we’re building, and the long-term vision of the club.- Financial discipline is essential. Transfer fees, payment structures and wages all have to be sustainable.

- We want to build a squad that can compete for many years, rather than chasing quick fixes.

- Patience and smart decision-making are just as important as ambition in the transfer market.



So far, I think the club has largely stuck to that strategy.

We can certainly debate whether it would have been worth bidding more for Mateus Fernandes, but in the end we have to trust the club’s stance. If the reports are accurate and Spurs were always prepared to keep raising their offer, then the deal may simply have stopped representing long-term value for money.

Looking at the squad objectively, I’d argue that our biggest investment should be the player who best complements Mainoo. Personally, I struggle to see a better fit than Tchouaméni. If that’s the case, I also think the club would be more flexible on both the transfer fee and wages. If the reports of Madrid asking for around €100m are true, securing a favourable payment structure could be more important than negotiating every last euro off the fee. As for wages, there are already enough comparable players at the top level to establish a reasonable benchmark.


When I look at the bigger picture, I find it difficult to believe the club isn’t actively trying to sign at least one genuine Tier 1 player. It isn’t just about improving the team. It also sends a message to future transfer targets, other clubs, commercial partners, potential sponsors and, perhaps most importantly, to our own players. I don’t think the club will want to accept the loss of prestige that comes with missing out on that calibre of signing if there is a realistic opportunity to make it happen. If necessary, I think they’ll do everything they reasonably can to create the financial room required.

A transfer window that includes a Tier 1 signing such as Tchouaméni, Ederson as a backup and rotational option alongside Mainoo, and a young, high-upside talent like Andrey Santos would fit almost perfectly with the strategy the club has appeared to follow from the very beginning.

Any further additions to the squad will probably depend on player sales, particularly Rashford, Zirkzee and perhaps a few academy players. If the budget becomes tight, I expect a loan signing.

 

[sparx99]

I also think a big issue is when we spend too, in recent years the heaviest investment has generally come on the back of a poor season, and if we return to the Champions League we rarely show ambition to build upon that.

Yeah, though I’ve never really bought into the logic that people argue with that. Suggesting that we spend big to get CL money and then don’t spend to re-qualify.

It’s obviously far more cost efficient to keep qualifying given the cost to our sponsorships, loss of prize money etc when we miss out.

I think it’s far more likely that the pattern is just a coincidence or perhaps a misguided idea that the team has improved and is on the right track rather than an intentional under-investment.

There is still time this summer obviously and the league starts later due to the World Cup. Ineos have shown greater ruthlessness with the fringe players and I would hope they’ll make the required signings. We are obviously can’t go into the season with only Ederson signed in midfield.

 

[Rozay]

From April. I think it’s fair to say that this is what we all expected.

 

[ron86]

From April. I think it’s fair to say that this is what we all expected.

I honestly think they thought we could sign Anderson for 80m and Fernandes for 50m

 

[Reds Under The Bed]

I also think a big issue is when we spend too, in recent years the heaviest investment has generally come on the back of a poor season, and if we return to the Champions League we rarely show ambition to build upon that.

That’s been an annoying trait we have shown over the past decade. Spending what it takes to get the team right should be the priority - after that we will only need to spend to top things up and keep the squad fresh and competitive.
As it stands we operate like a club satisfied to qualify for the Chanpions League and then rest on its laurels.