This is exactly what it's like, Arsenal in Wengers later years while building their stadium. That's my concern with us financing a new stadium, we're already operating like that now, if we finance a stadium on top of our existing debt this will carry on for the next decade
‘No value in the market’ - 2026
- Thread starter Rozay
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Yeah, think I may do the same. Agreed, following a side while always looking for the negatives is a strange one to me.
I'm excited about the new season but some of the relentless negativity here can be a bit of a bring down.
The not enough money meme has to die. If we want to we can spend up to 300 mill. I think Kiran Maguire or whatever that finance dude is said similar. Our only problem is cash flow. But I'm sure billionaires can access cash if they want to. And 300 mill is not 300 mill up front. This myth keeps perpetrating in the media and Im sure its United putting it out there every year to help our negotiations. Of course just because we can spend it doesn't mean we should or will. But we are not Hull.
Where I see the slow down now is that we have raised the floor and got numbers in every position. Even LB. We have Shaw, we have Dorgu, we have Maz and Dalot as back ups. Yes its not ideal and we need a LB but we need a top quality first team starter LB, not a back up to Shaw LB. So we are at a crossroads. If we cant get Hall. Then what? Just get someone in for the sake of it? Even if they are good ish are they the right purchase now. Same can be said of midfield. Do we really need another prospect? A Lewis Skelly? 3 young developing midfielders?
Or are we at a point where we need to smash the ceiling and get Hall, Touchemeni signings? And if we cant get them what do we do? I would be inclined to wait and get the right person even it means waiting for a year.
Plan now is in this window -
Hall/Touchemeni/Camavinga level 1 signings. We should have had a word with their agents and told them we are interested and we are waiting for their go ahead if possible.
Striker is a position where we could do with a back up. Watkins/Mateta
3rd mid - If we cant get option 1. Lets look at free options - Goretzka?
Next window -
Spend big. 100 mill signings. LB, CM, RB, CB. Go get 2,3 top level players and just pay the cash.
Where I see the slow down now is that we have raised the floor and got numbers in every position. Even LB. We have Shaw, we have Dorgu, we have Maz and Dalot as back ups. Yes its not ideal and we need a LB but we need a top quality first team starter LB, not a back up to Shaw LB. So we are at a crossroads. If we cant get Hall. Then what? Just get someone in for the sake of it? Even if they are good ish are they the right purchase now. Same can be said of midfield. Do we really need another prospect? A Lewis Skelly? 3 young developing midfielders?
Or are we at a point where we need to smash the ceiling and get Hall, Touchemeni signings? And if we cant get them what do we do? I would be inclined to wait and get the right person even it means waiting for a year.
Plan now is in this window -
Hall/Touchemeni/Camavinga level 1 signings. We should have had a word with their agents and told them we are interested and we are waiting for their go ahead if possible.
Striker is a position where we could do with a back up. Watkins/Mateta
3rd mid - If we cant get option 1. Lets look at free options - Goretzka?
Next window -
Spend big. 100 mill signings. LB, CM, RB, CB. Go get 2,3 top level players and just pay the cash.
What United have is a little bit of cash and an overdraft facility that isn't maxed out, into which we can go further into if we wish. So it's possible for United to spend more money, but we'd be spending the cash we have and/or going back into more debt. Doing so isn't free, in several senses of the word. I would say spending up to £300M this summer is never happening.
An excellent point.
Many thanks for your answer. My brief reply is that I already see an outstanding midfielder in Santos, a potential metronome who also can get stuck in without being a psycho about it, and at least for me he moots the need for a massive buy in midfield. If there’s a lesser name who can be had for solid depth count me in, but based on what I’ve seen already Santos is the better buy than Tonali, Fernandes or Guimareis.
We can afford to add about 150 million to our transfer obligations every summer. We're currently sitting at 40-50 million net so the club can certainly afford to sign more players.
If there's cash concerns it's more likely to be an arbitrary wage cap or a limit on spending to support the funding for the new stadium.
If there's cash concerns it's more likely to be an arbitrary wage cap or a limit on spending to support the funding for the new stadium.
That's how a lot of business work. Heck that's how countries work. How it doesn't work is not keeping up with the competition. Sure make savings if you can but not at the cost of the product. If Apple make a run of bad decisions and get into debt the answer will not be to start buying budget parts and release crappier budget phones. Cut staff, increase cost, save on wages etc. These are all the things we have been doing. But if we think we can just spend like Hull and not compete then we are fkd like Kodak.
What are you basing this on?
Is this based on 2 friendly games?
Based on 2 pre-season friendlies? That's hilarious! And I rate santos
No they're not, they're saying he looks a better value purchase. Which is still crazy based off 2 pre season friendlies.
Why is nobody linked to Adam Wharton? Surely a good alternative?
Crystal Palace value him at £100m apparently. Probably wouldn't be the ideal fit with our current midfielders to justify paying such a high price.
At a certain point though, we will need to either gut the squad like Newcastle or just try and be the winner of value per $ spent and focus on market opportunities. I don’t think there is any other way to do it if we’re also adding stadium costs, other than a complete ownership change. Maybe the new stadium is the impetus for that.
I’m surprised no one is in a saga with him, and trying to negotiate it down. I think he’s great and would love if we got him to join us.
Yes, based on two friendly games, as well as the outrage of Chelsea supporters who bitterly complained that United bought Santos for far less than he’s worth, a lament that appears to be well founded. My expectation is that Santos will continue to prove his value, and that he will not go into freefall and become the next Alexis Sanchez or Jadon Sancho, but I acknowledge that I could be very wrong about that.
Ok, so let’s ignore what our own eyes tell us and instead do the idiot thing we’ve been doing for the last decade, which is to buy the shiny overpriced toy.
Surprised scousers haven't gone for him, although think Chelsea were also looking recently too
Pricetag has to be the reason, Palace is going to ask for £100M based on age and being English. Last year he wouldve been 50-60 but now it's ballooned so much
Yeah, that's fine with optimism. I'm happy with what he's shown so far.
But in reality, he hasn't proved anything that he's better than those players. He played 43 games last season with Chelsea (with minutes equal to about 20 full games). I don't know about you, but i've barely noticed him or thought that he's shown excellent talent.
But then I'm not a scout, and here's hoping he'll do Lammens.
It’s all well and good being clever in the market but a club like Manchester United cannot lack ambition. 2 signings going into the season is disappointing. We need act soon as once again, our late business may result in a rusty start to the season.
Brighton are being linked with Ueda for less than 20m euro.
I think he has a similiar unheralded profile to Chicarito and Ole. Would be decent off the bench.
I think he has a similiar unheralded profile to Chicarito and Ole. Would be decent off the bench.
I dont disagree, but if we dont get one the pressure is on Santos (not Tielman) as reaslistically Santos is the only one who is any kind of a DM.
I was one of the few here championing the santos deal when it happened. But you can't judge anything on pre-season, they are played at a snails pace and no one cares, that's not real football, surely you understand that. If pre season was any guage, Jon Dahl Tommasson would've been one of the premier leagues greatest ever strikers
I just want the season to start to be honest as if we start well it'll quieten people down. A bit too much negativity when we've got a good squad just because we're not breaking the bank. We've got a couple of potential depth issues but no gaping holes.
It's like if we'd have spent 70m on Bruno G instead of what we spent on Tielemans, people would be happier because we've spent more. And there's barely any difference in them quality or age wise.
It's like if we'd have spent 70m on Bruno G instead of what we spent on Tielemans, people would be happier because we've spent more. And there's barely any difference in them quality or age wise.
Bruno can play as a 6 and as an 8. Tielemans can't. His passing range is good but he lacks the physique for the job. Our CM lacks physicality and athleticism.
For those who are finding the hysteria exasperating, and would like a slightly more reasoned take on where we are - I would recommend the tifo video that went up on YouTube yesterday, where they have the most positive take Ive ever heard them have on United. Couple really interesting points they make:
1. They believe that we should only buy players that raise that make us better - and theres very few of them. If they’re not available - wait until they are as opposed to just getting what we can (which they mark out as a fault in our previous dealings).
2. They also think it’s possible that we’re not targeting an all action ground eater in MF. That whilst having one of those Rice/Anderson type players is the meta, theres other ways to cover space, and maybe that’s what we’re looking at doing. Remarks that Iraola sets up his team in a way that doesn’t have those players, instead working as a team.
3. They also just think we look good, that we’re well rested, and have some good talent coming through. They do think we could do with upgrades in the team, but that we shouldn’t panic.
A bit of tonic for the transfer window poison.
1. They believe that we should only buy players that raise that make us better - and theres very few of them. If they’re not available - wait until they are as opposed to just getting what we can (which they mark out as a fault in our previous dealings).
2. They also think it’s possible that we’re not targeting an all action ground eater in MF. That whilst having one of those Rice/Anderson type players is the meta, theres other ways to cover space, and maybe that’s what we’re looking at doing. Remarks that Iraola sets up his team in a way that doesn’t have those players, instead working as a team.
3. They also just think we look good, that we’re well rested, and have some good talent coming through. They do think we could do with upgrades in the team, but that we shouldn’t panic.
A bit of tonic for the transfer window poison.
This is another story that needs to die. Our failure wasn't buying expensive players. Our problem was paying above market rates for sht players - Antony etc and buying players that were expensive and good but didn't fit and buying expensive players that were good but had stinking attitudes - Pogba/Sancho. That doesn't make signing expensive players a bad idea. We are just sht at recruitment. We have also bought a lot of cheap players that were crap - Malacia, Bayindir etc and lots of mid range players that were crap Schneiderlin, Van Der Beek etc. But no one says let's stop buying cheap players and mid-price players. There are only a handful of players since Sir Alex bought that were an unmitigated success. Bruno being at the top. We cant just stop recruiting altogether because our recruitment success rate is rubbish.
We haven't just cracked the secret code that no other club knows which is to never buy expensive players and we can just budget signing it to the top. Are the Man Utd board sat there laughing at the all the other clubs buying expensive players and saying 'Oh what fools! You haven't learnt that buying expensive players is the road to disaster!.
You're arguing against something that hasn't been said. The poster said 'shiny overpriced toy', not shiny expensive toy. Presumably you would agree that buying overpriced players isn't a good thing?
This is it. I get so frustrated when people say we've tried signing the top players, no we haven't. We' ve tried signing average players for massively increased prices. The only top players we signed were pogba who was actually very good and Di Maria who never wanted to join. We got zlatan and cavani in on frees who both showed their quality as well. Having top players isn't a problem like some fans try and say. You would think we were out signing the best in the world under Woodward the way some talk on here. There's been so many top quality players we just haven't had a look in with
Again, show me a post that says that having top players is a problem? There are plenty saying that having certain problematic top players was a problem because, well, it was.
Posts say we've tried to spending money and it doesn't work. The point is spending money works if it's on good players. We spent money on average dross, that doesn't prove spending money doesn't work
Different from what you were saying previously but, again, I don't think that's true. I think most qualify it with spending big money on shiny toys or similar. I don't think you'll find anyone who claims as a blanket statement that spending big money never works.
You’ve missed the point. In the post Fergie years we’ve far too often overspent on players. The list is long, but let’s just think about Antony for a moment. He was literally valued at about 40m but we dithered and then panicked and spent 70m for him…and then he flopped. Flops happen to every club, but United became a laughingstock over our squad building strategy…buying shiny overpriced toys that for the most never made any sense. That idiocy appear to have come to an end, which is not to say that every buy will work out or that we’ll never spend 100m on a single player, but there is now a method to the madness instead of just…madness.
Spending money doesn't equal shiny toy. We wasted a fortune on fellaini, he was far from a shiny toy. The only one which fell down who looked elite was Sancho, although there was plenty of stories about his attitude before we signed him.
I want us to stop spending silly money on average players, but if top players become available you need to be at the table and we very rarely are
Agreed! Though I do think we're still at the table for some of these discussions but more willing to walk away if the price exceeds what we're willing to pay. Which i think is sensible.
Onana was a shiny toy. Considered elite and we spent massive sum for him. We literally had a better backup keeper ready to to step up, but we let both our keepers go, both of whom were better than Onana.