‘Ole’s recruitment has been great’ narrative

Florida Man

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120M for squad depth? 0 clean sheets in so many games.

I wonder where did you get this "right direction" from?
Yes, 120M. It's the unfortunate reality for us as long as we're paper thin and struggling so we're going to have to deal with it in the meantime. But I consider it the right direction because these were all signings in areas where we were/are weak. We never had a proper right forward/winger with pace until we signed James.

Everyone and their mother knew we needed to add a CB, so we got one. I understand the frustration with Maguire but how good can our back line be when our midfield has been nonexistent for some time? I remember Maguire getting more praise in the beginning when we actually had a midfield (Pogba + McTominay). We also let the wrong CB go to another club and kept the worst ones. Can't pin that on Maguire.

I would use a similar argument for AWB. At least he's a proper right back who can make great tackles and has the benefit of young age. That itself is a huge step up from Young/Valencia. And again, without a decent midfield, what are you going to expect from him going forward? Furthermore, a better manager would know how to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses within the tactical setup.

I can't stress good coaching enough. And I hate to keep invoking Liverpool but hey, we and the Scousers were calling Lovren and Henderson absolute shit for a long time because they were performing like shit. Now they look like class players. We ought to be giving our new signings the benefit of a doubt because of our inept coaching staff. It's players who have been consistently bad under multiple managers that need to go. Looking at Jones, Young, Rojo, Mata.
 

Sky1981

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Yes, 120M. It's the unfortunate reality for us as long as we're paper thin and struggling so we're going to have to deal with it in the meantime. But I consider it the right direction because these were all signings in areas where we were/are weak. We never had a proper right forward/winger with pace until we signed James.

Everyone and their mother knew we needed to add a CB, so we got one. I understand the frustration with Maguire but how good can our back line be when our midfield has been nonexistent for some time? I remember Maguire getting more praise in the beginning when we actually had a midfield (Pogba + McTominay). We also let the wrong CB go to another club and kept the worst ones. Can't pin that on Maguire.

I would use a similar argument for AWB. At least he's a proper right back who can make great tackles and has the benefit of young age. That itself is a huge step up from Young/Valencia. And again, without a decent midfield, what are you going to expect from him going forward? Furthermore, a better manager would know how to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses within the tactical setup.

I can't stress good coaching enough. And I hate to keep invoking Liverpool but hey, we and the Scousers were calling Lovren and Henderson absolute shit for a long time because they were performing like shit. Now they look like class players. We ought to be giving our new signings the benefit of a doubt because of our inept coaching staff. It's players who have been consistently bad under multiple managers that need to go. Looking at Jones, Young, Rojo, Mata.
We are weaker in defence than we were 2 years ago, and that's after spending 120M. AWB is not an upgrade on Valencia, the only upgrade is he's younger. Maguire is shit for a "WORLD RECORD" fee, imagine that we're paying a world record for a defender and that's what we're getting? And you think this is shrewd purchase? We're being robbed blind because Ole's too out of depth to properly analyze that Maguire offers nothing Smailing can't offer. He's good on the ball? So what, that's the least of our worries when we have a glaring holes in midfield. You worried about ball playing CB as the icing on the cake. We're paying 80M for the cherry on the top of the cake while having no cake to eat.

Where we headed is bottom half, that's not the right direction.

Sugar coat it with your own narratives, fact is Ole's job on the line and if he's sacked tomorrow nobody can say he's being hard done.
 

devilish

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In my opinion our transfers reflect the lack of planning this club is inflicted with. So we had a limited budget. Instead of distributing the money across the defence and midfield we went for 2 extemely expensive players while forgetting completely about CM. That's now costing us big time

If you ask me, its time we become more humble. The budget and the squad is what it is and it will take us years to go back to were we once were. Instead of blowing the entire budget on Sancho, Haaland and Maddison we should distribute the money wisely this time round. For example players heading towards their last months of contract (Milik, Eriksen, Tonali, Sarr), who have a minimum fee clause (Pellegrini) or want out (Can) can't be ignored.
 

Cnaiür urs Skiötha

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James was not bought to be a 100 % first team starter each game. For what we paid he is a good option to have and he will improve.
AWB has been solid defensively bar the last few games where he was below average. However, we really needed someone to sort out the right side and in our current status we have to overpay for average players.
Maguire is a strange one. No idea how we ended up paying that sort of money for a player like him. A huge reason seems to be that we have zero leaders in the team. It is ridiculous that he got the captaincy 4 months after his arrival. Tells a lot about our players.
What Ole got right is sending away all players that did not fit the style of play we would like to achieve (although we failed most of the time).
 

kafta

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The three players we signed last summer are all good players. They are nowhere close to being enough as we need to sign maybe 4-5 more, of much higher quality.

Maguire again is a good defender, but he is far from elite, and not really leading the backline which is disappointing for the money we paid.

AWB is fantastic defensively but not really a modern fullback in a sense that fullbacks in top teams are required to be productive offensively.

Dan James is a great option but its really a sign of the times that he is starting and one of our most productive players.

The recruitment was ok but far from the quantity and quality of players needed.
 

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When fans and pundits defend a player, favourite phrase is that fee is not important. They are not guilty why club payed that much and things like that. But it is important. Like in everything in life. More you pay more you expect.
For me it is simple. For 10-20 mil you buy players like James. Player with potential who adds good squad depth, player who can be impact player and if he flops you can always sell him. But for 50+ mil you buy instant flawless quality. Not just upgrade for what you had.
With Awb i am still reserved. In defence he is great and for his attacking ability i will wait another manager to see what he can do. So far in that area i am not happy at all. And his technique worries me a lot, it is obvious that he is limited with the ball in his feet. But again, i will wait for attacking manager to judge him.
But Maguire was wrong buy for that money. 80 mil for just a solid defender was awful buy. He is playing like 30 mil defender. Doing his basic job and that is it. Excellent in air and i must say he is solid on the ball, no panicking and he tries always to pass the ball instead doing Smalling with long balls or kicking it out of play. But when you buy something for fortune you expect much more. For 80 mil i want defender who is leader in that defence, who makes other players better and who plays 9 of 10 games on world class level. He is not doing that and is slow as feck. Worst part is that we are stuck with him. We can't get our money back and we can't bench him.

Edit: imagine giving another window to Ole? 100 mil more for Rice and Longstaff. Bloody hell
 
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Robbie Boy

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His most expensive signing is a waste
of money in your words but its not a stick to beat him with?
I mean, a waste of money as in he’s average but probably better than what we have. I just think there’s s multitude of other reasons to criticize him and the sooner he’s gone the better. But his signings have been ok to an extent. Nothing great but not the worst either. Maguire, unfortunately, is overrated beyond belief by far more than just Ole.
 

Nickelodeon

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Buy young players. Play shit. Say team being young should not be an excuse. Still says it every time. Repeat.
 

WannaBeSakka

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At the moment it feels like any player we buy will look terrible playing for us no matter how good they were before coming.

How many players actually improve while playing for us?

There's something definitely wrong, almost everyone we've signed post Fergie seems to regress once they put on the united shirt. I feel like we could sign Messi right now and he'd still be poor playing for us.

What's wrong with us?

AWB and Maguire are excellent players.
 

Sky1981

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The three players we signed last summer are all good players. They are nowhere close to being enough as we need to sign maybe 4-5 more, of much higher quality.

Maguire again is a good defender, but he is far from elite, and not really leading the backline which is disappointing for the money we paid.

AWB is fantastic defensively but not really a modern fullback in a sense that fullbacks in top teams are required to be productive offensively.

Dan James is a great option but its really a sign of the times that he is starting and one of our most productive players.

The recruitment was ok but far from the quantity and quality of players needed.
We're paying a world record fee for something that's not even elite, Good buys!
 

roonster09

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Signings are good, Maguire, AWB and James have done well at least for now. It's a simple case of people expecting players to justify the fee just because we paid huge money. Paying 80 million for Maguire won't make him quicker, just like paying 50 million for AWB won't make him Dani Alves. But they have done well except in last couple of games. As a team we are failing, barely any options for player in possession, 0 support from midfield to defense and attack.

Did they justify the transfer fee? They won't, at least Maguire as it's a record fee which means he should be the best in the world/league. He isn't.

Our biggest problem is midfield, the shit one makes everyone looks shit as we barely have control in the game. Attackers don't get the ball in dangerous positions, isolating them one vs one with FB/defenders, defenders barely get any protection from the midfield defensively.
 

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Yes it has been great. The coaching, spoield midfielder (and the rest of the midfield) who is leaving and the Glazers haven't been great. Taking a dump on everything positive because of a couple of bad results isn't very constructive
 

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How is James a gamble? He's a good buy especially since his transfer has been so criticized. AWB and Maguire are good buys too. Transfers are not a problem, lack of transfer or 2 more is and our way of playing too.
 

roonster09

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How is James a gamble? He's a good buy especially since his transfer has been so criticized. AWB and Maguire are good buys too. Transfers are not a problem, lack of transfer or 2 more is and our way of playing too.
When manager is not good enough, we have to playdown every work they have done, which means shitting on one of our better players James who has been very good transfer and threat every game.
 

Andycoleno9

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Signings are good, Maguire, AWB and James have done well at least for now. It's a simple case of people expecting players to justify the fee just because we paid huge money. Paying 80 million for Maguire won't make him quicker, just like paying 50 million for AWB won't make him Dani Alves. But they have done well except in last couple of games. As a team we are failing, barely any options for player in possession, 0 support from midfield to defense and attack.

Did they justify the transfer fee? They won't, at least Maguire as it's a record fee which means he should be the best in the world/league. He isn't.

Our biggest problem is midfield, the shit one makes everyone looks shit as we barely have control in the game. Attackers don't get the ball in dangerous positions, isolating them one vs one with FB/defenders, defenders barely get any protection from the midfield defensively.
That is the thing where i don't agree with you. Players must justify their price. Yes, it is not their fault why club payed that much but in general he will be labelled as flop if he plays like average player. Doing well for 50-80 mil is not enough.

But i totally agree with you with bolded part. Weak midfield( and weak manager :)) are not doing favors to AWB and Harry.
 

roonster09

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That is the thing where i don't agree with you. Players must justify their price. Yes, it is not their fault why club payed that much but in general he will be labelled as flop if he plays like average player. Doing well for 50-80 mil is not enough.

But i totally agree with you with bolded part. Weak midfield( and weak manager :)) are not doing favors to AWB and Harry.
Bold part is the answer, they should justify their wages not their fee. It's not in their hands and they can't become good or shit players based on the fee. Signing a free transfer and making him highest paid player in the world doesn't mean the expectations on his should be 0 as he is a free player, expectations should be sky high as he is paid shit loads of money in wages.

They can control what's in their hands, if paying money somehow makes the player better then we won't be in this position.

If a player plays like average player then irrespective of the fee they are flops. It's all good for internet arguments but what really counts is the player performance on the pitch.
 

Himannv

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I don't have a very big problem with the signings we have made, I just think it wasn't enough.

AWB is fantastic defensively but obviously not a great attacking option. I think Maguire is going to be a first choice CB for us for some years IMO, I just don't think the combination with Lindelof is right. Dan James isn't a complete player yet, but obviously he's got potential and certainly exceeding expectations at this time. They are players with certain strengths and weaknesses, but they do have qualities that can be useful to a team.

The bigger problem for me was not to treat midfield as an absolute priority and getting someone good in there to have more control over games. Right now we're in a position where Fred is pretty much doing the job by himself after barely starting games last season. It's very weird. We're also short of a complementary attacker who can make the jigsaw in our front line work.
 

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James was a good buy.........as an impact player. It's quite unforgivable that a championship kid with very limited first team experience prior to the signing is an automatic first choice forward for an aspiring top four club.

The reliance upon him to create and win us games is an indictment on the club and its current standards.
See, that's where you're supposedly wrong, because these days our standards have very much been lowered, that we have to accept any top half finish as a miracle.
 

roonster09

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James was a good buy.........as an impact player. It's quite unforgivable that a championship kid with very limited first team experience prior to the signing is an automatic first choice forward for an aspiring top four club.

The reliance upon him to create and win us games is an indictment on the club and its current standards.
It's not. Relying on players like Pereira, Mata, Lingard shows how far we have fallen, not relying on players like James just because he was from Championship.

Players like Maddison was from championship and was starter for Leciester from first game, Alli was from league 1 and he came starter very early and played key role in Spurs finishing 2nd.

Players like Tammy, Mount, Reece James, Tamori all played in championship last season and now starters for top 4 club in the league.

It shouldn't matter where the player is from.
 

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Maguire was a poor purchase at £80m and I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise, especially when we had far bigger problems like midfield and the wings, and we sent our next best center back out on loan to accommodate him.
 

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When manager is not good enough, we have to playdown every work they have done, which means shitting on one of our better players James who has been very good transfer and threat every game.
Exactly. Not a single positive thing. Not one.
 

Andycoleno9

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Bold part is the answer, they should justify their wages not their fee. It's not in their hands and they can't become good or shit players based on the fee. Signing a free transfer and making him highest paid player in the world doesn't mean the expectations on his should be 0 as he is a free player, expectations should be sky high as he is paid shit loads of money in wages.

They can control what's in their hands, if paying money somehow makes the player better then we won't be in this position.

If a player plays like average player then irrespective of the fee they are flops. It's all good for internet arguments but what really counts is the player performance on the pitch.
Maybe you can't blame player but that doesn't change that he is a bad or good buy. 80 mil defender should play on highest level. If he is not playing like that, you wasted money. It is not his fault, he is playing the best he can but at the end; you wasted money and that player is not good buy.
 

roonster09

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Maybe you can't blame player but that doesn't change that he is a bad or good buy. 80 mil defender should play on highest level. If he is not playing like that, you wasted money. It is not his fault, he is playing the best he can but at the end; you wasted money and that player is not good buy.
Like I said, player is good or bad buy based on his performance, shouldn't be based on fee.

Was the club right in signing him? No
Is he better than what we have? Yes.
Is he a bad buy? Depends on his performance compared to the rest of the team/players in his position. Not based on the fee.

Just because Maguire cost 80 million and Lindelof around 30-35 million doesn't mean Lindelof is good enough if he puts half the performance as Maguire.

Pogba being 89 million player doesnt make him a bad buy just because he isn't better than any CM in the world. Did they improve us? Yes. That should be the goal.

I would rather go for multiple 40 million players than 1 80 million player, as we will improve the squad but I don't understand why players gets so much shit just because club overpaid. It's not as if player decided the fee.

For me once the player is at the club and senior player, then they should be judged as senior players. Not as senior player who was free transfer or senior player who cost 80 million.
 

kafta

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We're paying a world record fee for something that's not even elite, Good buys!
That was my point. I didnt write that as a justification, but rather a diagnosis of the problem.

We need elite level players, or potentially elite level players. We have bought "good" players that are not up to the required level.

If we had a manager with a playing system in place, then the whole would be larger than the sum of its parts. But at the moment, we have no system, we aren't getting the best out of anyone, so the players we bought are not great, they're "good"
 

Sky1981

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That was my point. I didnt write that as a justification, but rather a diagnosis of the problem.

We need elite level players, or potentially elite level players. We have bought "good" players that are not up to the required level.

If we had a manager with a playing system in place, then the whole would be larger than the sum of its parts. But at the moment, we have no system, we aren't getting the best out of anyone, so the players we bought are not great, they're "good"
I agree. Maguire if put back on leicester team would suddenly looks better. Just like most of our ex players.

I suspect our coaches are utterly and completely clueless in designing training routines
 

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AWB and Maguire were overpriced, we all knew that in the Summer. The issue is we didn't bring in enough players.

Anyone critising James needs a sit down.
 

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Like I said, player is good or bad buy based on his performance, shouldn't be based on fee.

Was the club right in signing him? No
Is he better than what we have? Yes.
Is he a bad buy? Depends on his performance compared to the rest of the team/players in his position. Not based on the fee.

Just because Maguire cost 80 million and Lindelof around 30-35 million doesn't mean Lindelof is good enough if he puts half the performance as Maguire.

Pogba being 89 million player doesnt make him a bad buy just because he isn't better than any CM in the world. Did they improve us? Yes. That should be the goal.

I would rather go for multiple 40 million players than 1 80 million player, as we will improve the squad but I don't understand why players gets so much shit just because club overpaid. It's not as if player decided the fee.

For me once the player is at the club and senior player, then they should be judged as senior players. Not as senior player who was free transfer or senior player who cost 80 million.
When you buy something( phone, tv, car...) you rate it by the cost. When you pay 100€ for TV you don't have high expectations. But when you pay 2000€, you want flawless performances. Right?

We are talking from club's perspective not players. Is 80 mil spent for solid defender and 50 mil for limited full back good buy?
I can wait with AWB because he is 21 and has potential to be really great full back but Maguire is a bad buy( for 80 mil).

Tell me something; we both agree that James is good buy. Would James be a good buy if we have payed him 70mil?
I don't think so. For 70 mil he must shit goals and assists
 

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I'm fairly happy with the buys. Not so happy with the approach. The build from the back narrative is a fallacy to me. You can't defend well when the rest of the team is crap unless you go out to defend a la Jose or second half of the table sides, and even then you have to be drilled very well and stay focused.

People point to Klopp as if he did this, and he sort of did but not really. It looked like he was going to initially, but his first big buys came in the form of attackers, allowing them to score goals and scare any opposition. He bought fullbacks too, but they're basically wingers. Only after this did he splash out on cb and gk.

We've just gone for two good but fairly dull and very defensive signings, plus James who is great, but not far from enough on his own.
 

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When you buy something( phone, tv, car...) you rate it by the cost. When you pay 100€ for TV you don't have high expectations. But when you pay 2000€, you want flawless performances. Right?

We are talking from club's perspective not players. Is 80 mil spent for solid defender and 50 mil for limited full back good buy?
I can wait with AWB because he is 21 and has potential to be really great full back but Maguire is a bad buy( for 80 mil).

Tell me something; we both agree that James is good buy. Would James be a good buy if we have payed him 70mil?
I don't think so. For 70 mil he must shit goals and assists
Sorry but these players are not gadgets, so any comparison using these is just not worth it. Gadgets have fixed price and are manufactured in millions, players are not, top level players are few and they are sold by selling clubs when they get good fee in return, not like gadgets where they are sold when you pay the fixed amount.

From club point of view, it might be money not so well spent but bad transfer? it's only a bad transfer if the player is average and not an improvement. Obviously we can just take extreme examples like if player is 1 billion, is he a good transfer or if he is a free transfer, is he a good transfer even if he plays shit.

I said it already, I prefer 2 40 million players than 1 80 million player.

So do you think Sanchez would have been good transfer if he was paid 200K instead of 500K per week? or even 80-100K which is around Lingard's wages.
 

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I didn't even realise this was a narrative to be fair.

Our squad is actively weaker then it was when he took over - I don't see how this could be deemed a success by any metric.
 

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If Ole's signings were great, which is debatable (they were good signings, not amazing)…..then he is severely under-using these great signings because we are 9th in the league. It cannot be argued. Either his signings weren't great (meaning that's one of his only positives removed from the narrative) or he can't coach them properly.

Ole out.
 

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About Maguire:

Leicester lose the most expensive defender in the world, buy a cheap young replacement and currently have by far the best defensive record in the league (conceded 3 less than the next best defence).

So either Maguire wasn't all that good to begin with OR they are much better coached and set up as a team, so whoever happens to be playing CB isn't left exposed (and looking slow) all the time.

My point is it's very hard to judge these players in a dysfunctional team like ours
 
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JoaquinJoaquin

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About Maguire:

Leicester lose the most expensive defender in the world, buy a cheap young replacement and currently have by far the best defensive record in the league (conceded 3 less than the next best defence).

So either Maguire wasn't all that good to begin with OR they are much better coached and set up as a team, so whoever happens to be playing CB isn't left exposed (and looking slow) all the time.

My point is it's very hard to judge these players in a dysfunctional team like ours
Think it's a combination of both tbh.
 

kafta

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I agree. Maguire if put back on leicester team would suddenly looks better. Just like most of our ex players.

I suspect our coaches are utterly and completely clueless in designing training routines
I think its a mixture of bad coaching on the defensive end, but also a lot to do with our offense. Teams like Liverpool or City out their opponents under so much pressure that their players aren't instructed to commit in numbers on the break, as they are afraid of conceding. Against us, teams break in numbers because our attack isn't as respected.

Also, when you lose the ball every minute, then the other team has a chance to put you under pressure. Our forward line and midfield lose the ball constantly and dont tend to press well to win it back, meaning our defense is left exposed way too often.

Against sheffield, when we overloaded our attack, we kept them under pressure, our defense could make no mistakes. As soon as we sat back, we invited crosses and pressure around the box, it was almost inevitable we concede.

All that in addition to personnel not being good enough and not overly committed, and absolutely no belief.

We are lightyears from where we should be.
 

RedSky

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About Maguire:

Leicester lose the most expensive defender in the world, buy a cheap young replacement and currently have by far the best defensive record in the league (conceded 3 less than the next best defence).

So either Maguire wasn't all that good to begin with OR they are much better coached and set up as a team, so whoever happens to be playing CB isn't left exposed (and looking slow) all the time.

My point is it's very hard to judge these players in a dysfunctional team like ours
Leicester have Wilfred Ndidi who's played 1170mins for them. A quality defensive midfielder to shield their defense.

Whenever I suggest signing a player like him I get the old "United shouldn't need such players" argument. When the reality is it's pretty much a requirement in the modern game.

Who do we have as a player who could do that job? Nobody. It's certainly not Scott McTominay before anyone suggests his name, he's a very good CM but not a DM, not a defensive shield. Matic is probably the closest we have and he's about as mobile as a turtle.
 

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I think the next two games are crucial for him now. Drawing at home to a promoted team is unforgivable. If we lose to Spurs and City I think theyll pull the trigger on him.
 

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Location
Canada
They're all good buys. Unfortunately we have no midfield depth and are lacking starters in a few positions, so this is what we see. Also it's not like Ole is some great coach. It's nothing more than that. Pogba has been out basically all season, yet he's the one top midfielder we have. Mctominay has been out for a few weeks and hes the one defensive midfielder we have with Matic past it/out. We have no quality #10, no quality or reliable left back.

There's nothing wrong with James on the right, he's not playing out of position. He's a winger who can play both sides pretty much equally well. Was signed for cheap and is a bargain, but probably not starting caliber long term. Needed to sign someone like him anyway.