Wow, you literally couldn’t have misunderstood my post more.
‘Ole’s recruitment has been great’ narrative
- Thread starter Josep Dowling
- Start date
Calm down.
I have a good understanding of how our scouts operate because I've spoken to afew over the years including some youth coaches whilst taking a young lad down to matches over the years. A young lad that is now part of the first team setup.
So anyone that thinks our scouts are woeful doesn't know what on earth they're talking about.
I see, so you spoke to a guy once so clearly that means he can't be shit at his job. That's a solid argument well explained and i'm glad you've enlightened us with your deep knowledge on the subject. Guess we can carry on the forum as long as you can green light every opinion on here. Good work.
But on the question of whether it is appropriate to shell out astronomical sums for superstars, the Norwegian shakes his head.
- What does it look like? Do I look like I want to spend hundreds of millions of pounds on players we're not sure about? We have to rebuild, we have to change the culture, we want a culture where people are hungry and selfless, as most of these players show. Players like Scott McTominay and Marcus Rashford and Jesse Lingard know what Manchester United is all about, says Solskjær.
A lot of hints to who he wants out..like pogba
https://www.vg.no/sport/fotball/i/Q...illioner?utm_source=vgfront&utm_content=row-2
- What does it look like? Do I look like I want to spend hundreds of millions of pounds on players we're not sure about? We have to rebuild, we have to change the culture, we want a culture where people are hungry and selfless, as most of these players show. Players like Scott McTominay and Marcus Rashford and Jesse Lingard know what Manchester United is all about, says Solskjær.
A lot of hints to who he wants out..like pogba
https://www.vg.no/sport/fotball/i/Q...illioner?utm_source=vgfront&utm_content=row-2
It's not really hard to understand is it? But I'll try again..
United have some of the best scouts in the world. And a few football fans on the internet who believe otherwise are misinformed. And then when someone who has a better understanding of what constraints the scouts are operating under calls out the BS being spouted, they get responses like I've seen from you, with your green light/shut forum posts.
This entire thread is predicated on the fact that AWB and Maguire are crap so our defense is shit when in fact...it isn't. We have given up only four goals more than Liverpool, and just one more than City, and that's without us having a functioning midfield or, indeed, any specialist defensive mid-fielder at all (I'm not counting Matic given that he has turned into a tree). The reality is that our defense is pretty good, but is left exposed too often.
As for Ole's transfers, Maguire is solid, dependable and, importantly for Ole's renewed-culture project, English. Dan James has been a surprisingly succesful cheap buy. And AWB has the best defensive stats in Europe (but still he's not good enough for the Caftards - you guys are hysterical).
As for Ole's transfers, Maguire is solid, dependable and, importantly for Ole's renewed-culture project, English. Dan James has been a surprisingly succesful cheap buy. And AWB has the best defensive stats in Europe (but still he's not good enough for the Caftards - you guys are hysterical).
So let’s take the fees out for a second - because they become quite irrelevant once you realize there has been no correlation between $$ spent and quality in our signings for the past 6 years.
Now that you’ve done that - have those 3 been good signings? Undoubtedly yes. James filled a right wing that has been plagued for many years. Check. AWB has been transformational in a RB role that has been plagued since Valencia decided to start slamming balls against shins. Check. Maguire has become our club captain - providing confidence and structure to a dressing room that has been devoid since fergie. Check.
All 3 those signings also contribute very positively to the culture Ole is rebuilding.
I would go further to argue they have been the best signings since Fergie signed RVP.
Now that you’ve done that - have those 3 been good signings? Undoubtedly yes. James filled a right wing that has been plagued for many years. Check. AWB has been transformational in a RB role that has been plagued since Valencia decided to start slamming balls against shins. Check. Maguire has become our club captain - providing confidence and structure to a dressing room that has been devoid since fergie. Check.
All 3 those signings also contribute very positively to the culture Ole is rebuilding.
I would go further to argue they have been the best signings since Fergie signed RVP.
I wonder what the % of posters on here are positive to negative, it seems like it is very much skewed to the negative, I guess that is just the way of things though like the news bad stuff gets shouted from the roof tops and the good stuff is ignored.
I just wonder if people really need all this bile and vitriol, if football is making you feel this way maybe you should find something else that you can enjoy.
By far the best transfer window in and out since well before SAF left, probably in the last 10 years and yet we still are picking flies.
As for the defense compared to last season it looks loads better, still a left back sort and when Tuanzebe inevitably replaces Lindelof it will be better still, even better when we have a midfield which is capable of protecting the defense.
I just wonder if people really need all this bile and vitriol, if football is making you feel this way maybe you should find something else that you can enjoy.
By far the best transfer window in and out since well before SAF left, probably in the last 10 years and yet we still are picking flies.
As for the defense compared to last season it looks loads better, still a left back sort and when Tuanzebe inevitably replaces Lindelof it will be better still, even better when we have a midfield which is capable of protecting the defense.
Maguire is the anti Pogba. He's alpha but not showy. He's the exact culture change we needed. He is worth every penny. Sometimes you sign or keep players because of what they bring off the pitch (Young and Mata).
James and AWB have both been brilliant. Like what were your expectations?
The squad was rotten and Ole has done well to refresh it.
James and AWB have both been brilliant. Like what were your expectations?
The squad was rotten and Ole has done well to refresh it.
Worth every penny? For 80mill you expect the best defender in the world and he may not even be close to one of them. He is a 50mill CB at most. Nothing on the Jaap Staams of this world and the impact VVD has had on his team. Leicester have improved in his absence. He is a very good CB but that's it. His fee is not his problem so I won't hold it against him but I will call out those who claim he is worth every penny. I see no Rio Ferdinand here.
Those he recruited were good buys. James was a superb buy, AWB is a fantastic defender and will hopefully improve his attacking game and Maguire - though definitely not worth 80-85m - does have a calming influence and is an upgrade in our defense. Maguire could just do with a fast centre back next to him.
The problem with the recruitment wasn't the players acquired, but the failures to fix obvious problems, most notably the midfield that has since seen us drop loads of points this season.
I would find it somewhat bizarre that Ole wouldn't have known this already, especially after losing Herrera and then hearing about Pogba's & Raiola's media performances in the summer. I think the most likely scenario is we had a very limited budget, just like last summer, and Ole was never likely to pressure the higher-ups to show ambition. Only when the predicted problem manifests before the world (which it has) are we likely to see it addressed, to any degree.
The problem with the recruitment wasn't the players acquired, but the failures to fix obvious problems, most notably the midfield that has since seen us drop loads of points this season.
I would find it somewhat bizarre that Ole wouldn't have known this already, especially after losing Herrera and then hearing about Pogba's & Raiola's media performances in the summer. I think the most likely scenario is we had a very limited budget, just like last summer, and Ole was never likely to pressure the higher-ups to show ambition. Only when the predicted problem manifests before the world (which it has) are we likely to see it addressed, to any degree.
Except that this thread is really just three or four negative people obsessively mashing their keyboards. They aren't representative. My mind boggles at the idea that someone really thinks AWB was a poor signing. It takes all sorts, I suppose.
I really don't get the Smalling love tbh.
The guy has a turn rate of an oiltanker and is panic-stricken when he gets pressured.
Add to that the abysmal quality he shows on the ball and you have disasters waiting to happen with our current play out from the back approach.
The guy has a turn rate of an oiltanker and is panic-stricken when he gets pressured.
Add to that the abysmal quality he shows on the ball and you have disasters waiting to happen with our current play out from the back approach.
Sure. BTW, I was one that wasn't too excited about the deal because of the cost. I also thought it would be better to go after Stones from Man City. He is/was out of favor with his manager and I actually think he can be better than Maguire. Look it up.
Having said all that, I support Maguire now and think he is a very good CD. We should build around him and we could have a great defense. The only reason people are unfavorable with Maguire now is because we are not getting results. If our midfield were better and the forwards were scoring more, and we were winning, this thread wouldn't exist. To blame our poor form on Maguire is pretty silly.
3 singings. All quickly integrated and playing well. One a flying winger who looks like the bargain of the decade.
His recruitment has been great. I look forward to his next batch of signings. If they are as good as the last 3 we will be a proper force again.
Such an improvement after watching Moyes, LVG and Jose waste near a billion quid on utter shite.
His recruitment has been great. I look forward to his next batch of signings. If they are as good as the last 3 we will be a proper force again.
Such an improvement after watching Moyes, LVG and Jose waste near a billion quid on utter shite.
Bargain of the decade for £18m? Not even close.
If it's United specific, then in the last 6 years perhaps. Bargain of the decade in the league, Kante, Mahrez, Vardy?
Fine, hair splitting aside we can surely at least agree that he's been a superb signing at that price.
Most of the cafe wanted us to spend 70 million on Nicolas Pepe because he score a few penalties. We picked up a younger better player for 1/4 of the price.
Kante, Mahrez, Vardy for sure mate. Maguire for £17m could be considered a bargain now too for obvious reasons. I'd also include Robertson to Liverpool for £8m which was quite frankly a unbelievable deal for Liverpool. There's loads more too around Europe. The RBS team that is a win away from qualifying for the knockout stages of the UCL cost as much as Diogo Dalot according a Austrian fan on here. And that's the entire team by the way according to the poster.
I agree with that Steve..
How dare you insult James by mentioning him alongside Gervinho with a trim
So you were being sarcastic when you said “our transfer business since Ole came in cannot be described as anything other than very poor.”
Ooh your a feisty one
I was addressing the issue with regards the statement "None of the players have been coached, no improvements the coaches cant get players to even play at 80% of their ability. "
Which is complete crap.
Tom Cato simply used 1 example in Rashford. He used his goals this season as an indicator to show he is but one player that has vastly improved this season.
I sure as feck wouldn't expect to see McTominay in a top scorers list so going to "page 2" of the top scorers list is irrelevant for you, but thanks for that.
What about McTominay? If you can be bothered to go look at his performance data he's performing better in some aspects than Ndidi, failing in others. But I think its safe to say McTominay is having a fantastic 2019 and easily our best player this calendar year.
What about AWB? Easily the leagues best defensive RB. The only other RB pushing him close seems to be Pereira of Leicester.
https://www.sofascore.com/player/aaron-wan-bissaka/863653
https://www.sofascore.com/player/ricardo-pereira/221200
As injury prone as he is, Martial when played has been fantastic. Contributing 6 goals in 8 league apps this season and his hold up play and understanding with James and in particular Rashford has been great to watch.
Shall we just ignore the emergence of Greenwood and Williams out of some bizarre blind hatred for Ole?
Fred is slowly but surely showing us all the player he can be and looks to really be building an understanding with McTominay in CM. It's not perfect but these things take time and the more games the two play together we can clearly see its improving, well some of us can clearly that can acknowledge the work being done.
It's very easy to be negative and a smart arse but when you step back and judge things fairly for a manager working with a very poor group of players overall he's doing well.
S*itest reply ever
I know cause the club have told the supporters. Read Woodwards recent interview with the fanzine.
If you don't want to believe that just look at our transfer dealings the last decade, or you could read Ferguson's book where he echoed similar sentiments of relying heavily on his brothers input over the years.
Is that enough evidence for you?
What absolute crap.
Sterling is losing it's value daily to the USD for god sake.
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=5Y
https://www.irishtimes.com/business...-brexit-effect-on-financial-results-1.2872207
When you know what your talking about feel free to reply til then stop with the brain dead, anti glazer BS you copy / paste from Mike LUHG on twittah.
Signings under Ole aint bad or good, let alone great success, thats mentalist talk for spinning bullshit. Those signing can look bad, good, very good right now or so far.
If that were in any way true at all we'd not be in this mess with the steady stream of rubbish players signed going right back to Ferguson.
Sell Ronaldo and replace with Valencia and Obertan? Buying Jones and Ferguson calling him as good as Duncan Edwards.
I could create one hell of a rant here and easily list approx 50 players in the last 10 years or so that are truly dreadful and not up to standard, weather is transfers or players being brought up through the YTS.
But you know some lad who told he's great so that means its completely true, meanwhile we've the evidence before us to show otherwise.
It's all the Managers fault for ignoring our World Class scouts buddy. That's the Adnan way my man.
I’ve not personally gone through the CVs of all of our scouts and help performance reviewed with them to see how they compare to other clubs... not sure anyone else has either? Seems to have gone off on a tangent somewhat.
mid the question is around recruitment then OGS has tackled three areas that were in respirated need of improvement, and all three are first team players. James may turn out to be a squad player, but he can actually plat on the right, whereas we haven’t had anyone who can do that effectively for 5 years.
AWB and Harry are excellent signings.
I don’t think you can criticise those players at all.
I understand some posters wanted MORE players, and it’s clear we need at least one midfielder and a striker. But take a reality check, you can’t go out and buy 6 or 7 first team players in one summer, whilst also integrating a number of youngsters, as we have seen from OGS. Williams, Garner and Greenwood look to be firmly part of the first team squad now.
its not possible to sign half a team in a summer, and furthermore I wouldn’t expect the board to sanction such moves, especially when we have been burned by the signings over the past 6 years. Now OGS has shown the players he has brought in have done well, have integrated and are being played (unlike Fred for example under Jose), then I expect him to get the funds in the summer to address the other issues we have in the squad.
mid the question is around recruitment then OGS has tackled three areas that were in respirated need of improvement, and all three are first team players. James may turn out to be a squad player, but he can actually plat on the right, whereas we haven’t had anyone who can do that effectively for 5 years.
AWB and Harry are excellent signings.
I don’t think you can criticise those players at all.
I understand some posters wanted MORE players, and it’s clear we need at least one midfielder and a striker. But take a reality check, you can’t go out and buy 6 or 7 first team players in one summer, whilst also integrating a number of youngsters, as we have seen from OGS. Williams, Garner and Greenwood look to be firmly part of the first team squad now.
its not possible to sign half a team in a summer, and furthermore I wouldn’t expect the board to sanction such moves, especially when we have been burned by the signings over the past 6 years. Now OGS has shown the players he has brought in have done well, have integrated and are being played (unlike Fred for example under Jose), then I expect him to get the funds in the summer to address the other issues we have in the squad.
Let me enlighten you. Under Ferguson we didn't have the majority of scouts we have now, so what you read in the great mans book doesn't apply to the scouts we have now and i've met a number of them in the last year. Fergie had a very small group of scouts and alot were part time. Martin Ferguson was his trusted scout who also happened to be his brother.S*itest reply ever
I know cause the club have told the supporters. Read Woodwards recent interview with the fanzine.
If you don't want to believe that just look at our transfer dealings the last decade, or you could read Ferguson's book where he echoed similar sentiments of relying heavily on his brothers input over the years.
Is that enough evidence for you?
What absolute crap.
Sterling is losing it's value daily to the USD for god sake.
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=5Y
https://www.irishtimes.com/business...-brexit-effect-on-financial-results-1.2872207
When you know what your talking about feel free to reply til then stop with the brain dead, anti glazer BS you copy / paste from Mike LUHG on twittah.
So no, you haven't provided any evidence but rather displayed your lack of knowledge regarding our scouts which you know very little about as i've demonstrated above.
The scouts don't make the call on on our transfer strategy, it's the managers that do that, which is why people like yourself get confused with player turn over and blame the scouts.
Sell Ronaldo and replace with Valencia and Obertan had alot to do with the Glazers. And the scouts were very different in those days with Martin Ferguson, Jim Lawlor etc in a far smaller group compared to now. So your point has no relevance to our scouts now.
I'm sure you could go on a pointless rant, but it would be irrelevant because our scouting network is very different now compared to 10 years ago.
I'm fully aware our scouting is completely different to a decade previous, regardless...scouting was failing then, scouting is failing now.
I'm aware Ferguson used a small group of confidants to guide his judgement on players, as you say Martin was his go to guy for quite a few players.
You blame the managers on our transfer strategy, but that makes zero sense.
I mean if Jose says I need world class players that are going to cost a lot, its still up to the scouts to source these players. If its Ole and his preference of young, talented British players like last summer, it's still up to the scouts to source these players. If it's to dig out talented teenage players for the future... its still up to the scouts to find these players.
Routinely now for a decade or more our transfer dealings have failed and scouting plays a massive part in that.
For someone to absolve them of all blame is mind boggling.
I've said a lot this week, for us to be truly successful again for a period of time all layers of the club need to be functioning professionally and to a high standard and we are not.
Yes Lukaku scores goals but if he doesn't bring others into the play at all, we'd end up having James and Rashford banging in crosses all day. Martial can at least hold up the ball and bring Rashford and James into play, if we had a genuine creative number 10 and a creative CM, Martial can score as much as Lukaku.
The only point where Lukaku does better than Martial is fitness.
We have spent the second most money in the league the last few years and we are in the middle of the table. It is easy to see that is has not been great. A big problem too is that we let good players go for little money.
What your conveniently ignoring here is the fact Lukaku played CF for us consistently bar the last few games under Ole where he was playing as a WF vs Martial primarily playing LW for us bar his debut season and a handful of games here for Ole so far.
Of Martial's 122 league appearances 71 have been played at LW.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/antho...ein=985&liga=&wettbewerb=GB1&pos=&trainer_id=
Lukaku would often go missing for weeks and even on more than one occasion months without any end product at all. Over his 8 season's in the PL, his season avg is 14 goals and only breaking the 20 goal ceiling once. Is that great? Would his 14 goal avg really have us further up the table like you contend here?
Aside from numbers, the reality is Rom displayed a horrendously unprofessional attitude towards the end.
He piled on the weight to over 100KG, he showed up late to training and had a fall out with Phelan, then went AWOL to Belgium and whilst over there decided it was professional to mock his team mates in a social media post.
Largely, yeah.
To those who don't dismiss xG it may also be interesting to know that we have the lowest (that would mean best) xGA rating in the league.
At any rate, we have improved defensively whether people want to acknowledge it or not. Bringing in a couple of good (and quite reliable) defenders probably has something to do with that.
This. Especially LvG was guilty of this. Well, either its him or Woody who's an idiot
I'm not the most familiar with xG stats...I've dug out a link here, care to explain how this info translates?
https://understat.com/team/Manchester_United/2019
I think its always been a thing. Even Sir Alex would let players go so that they got the moves they wanted, but we didnt always get the money they were worth. Of course its one thing being lenient when you're winning leagues and another thing when you are coming nowhere near.
Yeah, just look who left under him: Welbeck, Kagawa, Zaha, Buttner, Hernandez, Evra, Evans, RvP, Nani and Rafael. Combined 75 million. Granted that most of these were either past it or not very good, but thats a ridiculous amount for so many players
Moyes signed Fellaini and Mata and they were hardly scout recommendations. Moyes also dithered on the Herrera deal and vetoed the Thiago Alcantara deal because he wasn't convinced. Not sure how the scouts can be blamed here.
Van Gaal signed Di Maria, Falcao, Rojo, Blind, Herrera and Shaw in his first season. With the exception of Shaw and Herrera, the rest were signings that Van Gaal knew well and he wouldn't have needed a scouts opinion. Rojo for example he signed because the Argentine impressed him whilst he was analysing the Dutch teams defeat to Argentina in the world cup semi-final, hence signing him. He revealed that when we signed the player from SCP. Luke shaw at 18 along with Herrera were the only players from the list you could point towards the scouts. But I can't remember anyone being dissapointed we signed either at the time. Shaw was a teenage fullback starting games in the English top flight at 18 and was showing immense potential. Herrera was also a good signing and many on here are dissapointed he left.
In LVG's second season he signed Depay and Schweinsteiger without scout input because he knew both players well for obvious reasons. Darmian you could point to the scouts and say he was a dissapointment which I accept.
Mourinho used his own independent scouts to sign players because he valued their judgement over the club scouts. And we ended up with Bailly, Lindelof and Dalot. This was reported by Jason Burt in the Telegraph.
Our scouts have been under utilised and until we have a DoF type figure running the football department we will continue to give too much power to the manager in recruiting players which has been our biggest problem IMO. A manager like SAF who was a genius could get away with such a structure due to his genius.
A DoF with the scouting department reporting to him would be in the best position to set the longterm strategy and make best use of the scouts and the information garnered from around the globe from said scouts. The manager (as he is called now) should concentrate on coaching the first team and be given the appropriate title which is of the 'head coach'
Last edited: