‘Ole’s recruitment has been great’ narrative

Chesterlestreet

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I'm not the most familiar with xG stats...I've dug out a link here, care to explain how this info translates?

https://understat.com/team/Manchester_United/2019
Well, it simply means that based on the sort of chances we allow/concede (the statistical probability of those chances resulting in actual goals against), we concede more goals than we "should" (statistically and based on the metrics they use).

Similarly, if you under-perform in the xG (expected goals) department, you create an amount of chances which "should" result in more goals than you actually score.

Whether you buy into it (fully or partially) is a different matter. But the idea is that a team that under-performs per xG/xGA will sooner or later revert to a mean of sorts - just as a team that over-performs in that regard will do the same. However, xG as a prediction tool in isolated seasons has proven to be quite unreliable in several cases.

An example: a team that actually defends well on the whole might concede a statistically improbable amount of goals - over a shorter period - from, say, low percentage (statistically) long range efforts or silly mistakes from players who aren't part of the defence as such. Such a team will likely revert to the mean over time (statistical anomalies don't last unless you're extremely unlucky).

Another example: our xGA in Jose's second season indicated that we didn't defend particularly well. Why did we over-perform? Because DDG pulled a number of statistically improbable saves over the course of the season.

Again, though - to conclude that results will improve (or the opposite) within the context of a singe season just because the xG looks good (or bad) would be, well, silly.
 

BringNaniBack

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I think the recruitment under Ole has been good other than Maguire who is worth nowhere near what we payed. There are far better CB's around, Smalling being one of them IMO. Maguire does seem to have a positive presence around the dressing room though so it's not all bad.

If only AWB could attack then he would have been the perfect RB signing. James is good and will only get better.
 

wolvored

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Lets see who he brings in in January. So far his picks have made us better as a squad. I cant see anything wrong in the 3 from the summer. Smalling might be doing the business in Italy, but with his shirt pulling would have given a dozen pens away with VAR. Maguire AWB and James are all young enough to improve. Smalling is 29-30 and already on the decline.
 
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Lets see who he brings in in January. So far his picks have made us better as a squad. I cant see anything wrong in the 3 from the summer. Smalling might be doing the business in Italy, but with his shirt pulling would have given a dozen pens away with VAR. Maguire AWB and James are all young enough to improve. Smalling is 29-30 and already on the decline.
nice myth.

how many pens has Smalling given away this season? I believe they have VAR in Italy?
 

Keefy18

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Well, it simply means that based on the sort of chances we allow/concede (the statistical probability of those chances resulting in actual goals against), we concede more goals than we "should" (statistically and based on the metrics they use).

Similarly, if you under-perform in the xG (expected goals) department, you create an amount of chances which "should" result in more goals than you actually score.

Whether you buy into it (fully or partially) is a different matter. But the idea is that a team that under-performs per xG/xGA will sooner or later revert to a mean of sorts - just as a team that over-performs in that regard will do the same. However, xG as a prediction tool in isolated seasons has proven to be quite unreliable in several cases.

An example: a team that actually defends well on the whole might concede a statistically improbable amount of goals - over a shorter period - from, say, low percentage (statistically) long range efforts or silly mistakes from players who aren't part of the defence as such. Such a team will likely revert to the mean over time (statistical anomalies don't last unless you're extremely unlucky).

Another example: our xGA in Jose's second season indicated that we didn't defend particularly well. Why did we over-perform? Because DDG pulled a number of statistically improbable saves over the course of the season.

Again, though - to conclude that results will improve (or the opposite) within the context of a singe season just because the xG looks good (or bad) would be, well, silly.
Thanks man,

So by the numbers in the link I posted here, are we under performing or over performing?
 

noodlehair

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James is the best signing we've made in a long long time if you factor in value for money. Probably the best since somekne like De Gea or Hernandez. Obviously there are betterplayers out there but he's talented, has a fantastic work rate, young and suits the way we seem to want to play.

Bissaka I like. He needs to improve a lot with his final ball and decisiveness going forwards, and his defensive position in certain situations, but again you have to factor in the age. Those are things you can reasonably expect to improve over time.

Maguire I think has been poor. Apparently he is a good character and has a good attitude but I think at the very least he needs to cut the crap out of his game in order for that to mean much. No one who makes the same basic mistakes from one week to the next and prats around in the same ways can have that good an attitude. At best they are refusing to acknowledge their own errors. I'm still torn on whether he's a bad signing. It's still early days if we're building something long term. We also needed a centreback and really aside from taking a gamble on an unknown he was the best available target. My hope was he'd do similar to Rio and step up a level in terms of the concentration and important parts of his game. Rio is a good example of why you need to give that time though as it took him pretty much a year to do that after coming here.

*May revise opinion after we inevitably get tonked 5-0 by city.
 

Bobcat

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Thanks man,

So by the numbers in the link I posted here, are we under performing or over performing?
We are severely under performing if you go by Xg/Xga compared our actual points haul. We have concede so many shit goals this season from low quality chances and we have been anything but clinical up front. Of course all our missed penalties have inflated the Xg and for example vs Norwich they had no bearing on the final result, but it still does not change the fact we have been bottling it pretty badly in many games so far
 

gerdm07

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James is the best signing we've made in a long long time if you factor in value for money. Probably the best since somekne like De Gea or Hernandez. Obviously there are betterplayers out there but he's talented, has a fantastic work rate, young and suits the way we seem to want to play.

Bissaka I like. He needs to improve a lot with his final ball and decisiveness going forwards, and his defensive position in certain situations, but again you have to factor in the age. Those are things you can reasonably expect to improve over time.

Maguire I think has been poor. Apparently he is a good character and has a good attitude but I think at the very least he needs to cut the crap out of his game in order for that to mean much. No one who makes the same basic mistakes from one week to the next and prats around in the same ways can have that good an attitude. At best they are refusing to acknowledge their own errors. I'm still torn on whether he's a bad signing. It's still early days if we're building something long term. We also needed a centreback and really aside from taking a gamble on an unknown he was the best available target. My hope was he'd do similar to Rio and step up a level in terms of the concentration and important parts of his game. Rio is a good example of why you need to give that time though as it took him pretty much a year to do that after coming here.

*May revise opinion after we inevitably get tonked 5-0 by city.
Do you care to elaborate? You mention Maguire making the same mistakes week after week and then do not even list the mistakes. Please educate we lesser football people.
 

noodlehair

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Do you care to elaborate? You mention Maguire making the same mistakes week after week and then do not even list the mistakes. Please educate we lesser football people.
No need for sarcasm. You dont nees to be "educated" to notice hiw poor some of our defending has been at times.

In the main though, not taking responsibility on crosses and corners. Getting caught flat footed by players running at him. Taking an age to play a poor pass.

I mean, I thought he had a fantastic game today, but he was still guilty of two of these things. He seems very slow to react at times, while other times he'll be very quick to read something.

Today for example he was mostly on it and numerous times he snuffed out dangerous attacks. So he can do it, which makes me think it's either a concentration thing or he just isn't figuring out what to do in certain situations.
 

TheReligion

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I take it people saw Wan Bissaka step up today in a derby? The recruitment has been great. This thread is so wide of the mark.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Dan James = Masterstroke

AWB = We has no established RB & bought one of the biggest talents in the position. Overpriced but has shown he can nullify an LW to such a point that if he settles into a way of becoming consistent offensively it’ll be a bargain.

Maguire = For 50%-55% of the total spent budget & given the squad deficiencies he wasn’t the player to sign, I don’t watch much of England nor Leicester so maybe he was outstanding for them but I still don’t see £80mil worth of investment.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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I take it people saw Wan Bissaka step up today in a derby? The recruitment has been great. This thread is so wide of the mark.
He still got beaten by Sterling a lot and they could have hurt us more with better delivery. I am not fully convinced by him, but hopefully he can improve with time.
 
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He still got beaten by Sterling a lot and they could have hurt us more with better delivery. I am not fully convinced by him, but hopefully he can improve with time.
After the first 15 minutes or so I hardly remember Sterling getting past AWB. Sterling is also one of the best wingers in the world, I don't think any fullback should be expected to keep him out every time but AWB was near flawless in that regard imo. We forced them into high crosses with the way we played which doesn't suit City's small attack.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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After the first 15 minutes or so I hardly remember Sterling getting past AWB. Sterling is also one of the best wingers in the world, I don't think any fullback should be expected to keep him out every time but AWB was near flawless in that regard imo. We forced them into high crosses with the way we played which doesn't suit City's small attack.
A Sterling in good form would probably have scored a few goals from getting past him though. They didn't get enough players into the box to use the space they had down the wings, but they still got past our fullbacks too easy. Shaw struggled more, but Wan Bissaka didn't have the best of times either.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I think the recruitment under Ole has been good other than Maguire who is worth nowhere near what we payed. There are far better CB's around, Smalling being one of them IMO. Maguire does seem to have a positive presence around the dressing room though so it's not all bad.

If only AWB could attack then he would have been the perfect RB signing. James is good and will only get better.
Who are far better that we can get? If Smalling is better then why couldn’t he be ahead of Maguire in pecking order in England squad? 80m is just how the market nowadays, unproven centre back like Diop at West Ham & Ruben Dias at Benfica would cost 60m last summer. Koulibally would cost about 120m-130m

At the end of the day, when we try to sign a player who are proven, it’ll cost something way higher than his true value. If we try to take a punt again like what we did on Rojo, Bailly & etc then we will end up keep spending until it reaches 100m.

The rebuilding plan is what we aim for. We want to improve the players, develop young players in top star players, build the leadership in the squad & teaching the United Way especially to the young players. Maguire, AWB & James were suitable for the plan and they have done very well this season.
 

gerdm07

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No need for sarcasm. You dont nees to be "educated" to notice hiw poor some of our defending has been at times.

In the main though, not taking responsibility on crosses and corners. Getting caught flat footed by players running at him. Taking an age to play a poor pass.

I mean, I thought he had a fantastic game today, but he was still guilty of two of these things. He seems very slow to react at times, while other times he'll be very quick to read something.

Today for example he was mostly on it and numerous times he snuffed out dangerous attacks. So he can do it, which makes me think it's either a concentration thing or he just isn't figuring out what to do in certain situations.
Corner. I think Maguire has been very good in this department. Yes, he has made mistake. Yesterday, though, that wasn't his fault IMO, De Gea should have come off his line and dealt with it. I think that was true for another corner goal a week or two ago. In summary, he is one of the best with air balls.

Distribution. He has a calming effect on the team when he has the ball and that's important. In fact, the opposing team has a clear tactic with Maguire: sit off him, don't let him pass forward, sit off the LB and Lindelof so Maguire passes to them. If Lindelof gets the ball press and leave a little space for AWB so the ball goes to him. Then press. The problems, though, all come down to the midfield. If they play well, like Fred's one-touch passing with AWB and James yesterday, then the tactics will not work effectively. When the mids play poorly, which is what we see most weeks, then the distribution from the back will look bad. Maguire is definitely not the problem here.

Slow to react. This is true sometimes. Most times, though, his positioning is spot on especially with dealing with low crosses in the box.

Flat footed. Maguire is not as quick as VVD so he will always struggle a bit with quick attackers. All-in-all, though, he has done well here.

Look, he will never be the best defender in the world and that's okay. He is a top CD and if he is effective for the next 4 or 5 years he will be worth the 80mil.
 

Mark Pawelek

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Lets see who he brings in in January. So far his picks have made us better as a squad. I cant see anything wrong in the 3 from the summer. Smalling might be doing the business in Italy, but with his shirt pulling would have given a dozen pens away with VAR. Maguire AWB and James are all young enough to improve. Smalling is 29-30 and already on the decline.
He's much better this season than last. How is that on the decline? Otherwise I agree with you.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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Maguire seems overpriced though AWB very good and James brilliant.
Maguire would be an automatic starter on every other team in the league, that's a solid improvement in transfer success even if he cost a solid 30M more than he is worth.
 

RedIan

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Mcguire is a far better player than Smalling, positionally better, stronger in the air and tackle and more importantly he can bring the ball out and find a pass something smalling was hopeless at. He cant dictate his fee.. established England centre half wont come cheap.

James is a great player, super pace very exciting, links so well with the other forwards.. great shot, score goals. Two footed - play on either wing..
“Ryan Giggs has claimed that Manchester United new boy Daniel James is the quickest player he’s seen in his entire playing and managerial career.”
Like him a lot A Man United style player through and through.

AWB - best tackling full back ive seen in a long time. Work needed on final ball when attacking but it will come.

Keep moaning...
 

lysglimt

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It's strange that for so many years we signed the wrong players - and when OGS comes in and signs 3 players who immediately improves us, it's no big thing because everyone knew about them - or because our scouts already had identified them and he just had to say yes.

Well if that is the case - I wish Mourinho and LvG had been able to say No - a bit more often.
 

Bobcat

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It's strange that for so many years we signed the wrong players - and when OGS comes in and signs 3 players who immediately improves us, it's no big thing because everyone knew about them - or because our scouts already had identified them and he just had to say yes.

Well if that is the case - I wish Mourinho and LvG had been able to say No - a bit more often.
Exactly. There is plenty to criticize Ole for, his signing is not one of those things. James is a steal at 15 million and AWB despite being expensive was well worth the money. Only 22 and is already delivering top class performances vs the best sides in the world. Maguire was a bit overpriced yes, but he was a big upgrade on what we had and i suspect he was not only brought because of his on defending, considering hes already been made captain.
 

romufc

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Who are far better that we can get? If Smalling is better then why couldn’t he be ahead of Maguire in pecking order in England squad? 80m is just how the market nowadays, unproven centre back like Diop at West Ham & Ruben Dias at Benfica would cost 60m last summer. Koulibally would cost about 120m-130m

At the end of the day, when we try to sign a player who are proven, it’ll cost something way higher than his true value. If we try to take a punt again like what we did on Rojo, Bailly & etc then we will end up keep spending until it reaches 100m.

The rebuilding plan is what we aim for. We want to improve the players, develop young players in top star players, build the leadership in the squad & teaching the United Way especially to the young players. Maguire, AWB & James were suitable for the plan and they have done very well this season.
Very well put. Because Smalling is performing well in a different league, fans think he is what we need even though 9 years worth was not enough for him to prove it.

Secondly, everyone on this forum keeps saying he is over priced etc and the alternatives given are Koulibaly who would have costed £100m plus.

What other CB is proven and would have come into this team and slotted in? I think Maguire has done really well so far, we concede fewer chances. It is not his fault when other players are injured and we have Fred Perreira midfield.

He is also a leader, in years to come if we are competing for leagues, fans will see the value of having a leader.

He is 26 which means if we build a team for 2 years time he will be in his prime and not looking to go to Real or Barca.

It is easy for fans to compliment players around Europe without ever having watched them for 90 mins.
 

DoomSlayer

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He was a starter for them last season.
And without him, this season they have the best defensive record and the most clean sheets, if I'm not mistaken.

It's a bit embarrassing that we spent £130 million on defenders and are joint 5th in terms of goals conceded, whilst also having barely any clean sheets (we might be one of the worst teams in that aspect). AWB has been incredible as a pure defender, so that leaves Maguire, who has been massively underwhelming, in my opinion.
 

romufc

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And without him, this season they have the best defensive record and the most clean sheets, if I'm not mistaken
Yes, but he was a starter for them last season and he was in the pre season teams as well.

Yes and if they had him then they might have been top. Not conceding silly foul V Rashford and Mane.
 

JB7

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What a ridiculous thread. AWB is probably the best defensive full back in the league and is still only 22, Daniel James cost very little and has slotted into the team seamlessly & given us a genuine option on the right and Maguire is fine, decent in possession and the most aerially dominant centre half we've had in years, will be our captain and a mainstay of the defence for the next 6/7 years.
 

DoomSlayer

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Yes, but he was a starter for them last season and he was in the pre season teams as well.

Yes and if they had him then they might have been top. Not conceding silly foul V Rashford and Mane.
I edited my post to elaborate a bit further, but to me, Maguire has underperformed. I think spending £80-£85 million on our midfield and getting a creative player would have made us a much better team and we would have been firmly in the top 4 right now.
 

The_Midfielder

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Dan James = Masterstroke

AWB = We has no established RB & bought one of the biggest talents in the position. Overpriced but has shown he can nullify an LW to such a point that if he settles into a way of becoming consistent offensively it’ll be a bargain.

Maguire = For 50%-55% of the total spent budget & given the squad deficiencies he wasn’t the player to sign, I don’t watch much of England nor Leicester so maybe he was outstanding for them but I still don’t see £80mil worth of investment.
The problem with AWB is he doesnt think as a a RB yet .. remember he was playing as a winger until 2 years back.. hence he looks awkward with the ball because he doesnt know whether to lump it or pass it .. making runs, he is not sure what runs to make and others ..
Once he gets better in these and gains experience .. i believe he will be a lot better rb attacking wise
 

wolvored

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He's much better this season than last. How is that on the decline? Otherwise I agree with you.
Age wise when we are buying young up and coming or young ish experienced players. Smalling is looking good in a slower league imo. Would he be better than what we have now? I dont think so
 

romufc

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I edited my post to elaborate a bit further, but to me, Maguire has underperformed. I think spending £80-£85 million on our midfield and getting a creative player would have made us a much better team and we would have been firmly in the top 4 right now.
Agreed that he might not have been worth £80m.

The fact is that Ole should have got more money to spend on top of the £80m for Maguire because we needed a new CB.

Last season we had way too many CB pairings and none able to stay fit.

We need 3 Midfielders to start the next transfer window.
 

SER19

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Wan bissaka and James are great signings, James especially a brilliant signing and ballsy given so often fans want a big name. Maguire was a big fee and is going well but will hopefully keep improving here.

Herrera was judged to not be worth the extra wages and mctominay trusted more, which seems like a brilliant decision now, though we are light in middle.

One window, with some very divisive players shifted and three signings at least rated good to great, his recruitment has clearly been sound.

He deserves full backing January and summer