“ If De Bruyne (£68m) has an off day, City have Mahrez (£61m), Sterling (£57m), Silva (£45m), Foden, Gundogan (£24m), & Ferran (£21m)

[adexkola]

There's no point comparing any team to City. They are the most financially-doped team in the history of sport and that gives them an incredible advantage, It's not just about the money they can spend, it's the fact they can spend it without having to balance the books or recoup losses. Buy a GK, doesn't work out? Buy another! Buy a CB, doesn't work out, by a few more...don't work out? Buy another £53m player...oh, and take another £35m player just in-case the £53m lad doesn't work out. Full backs no good? Have two more....hang on, better make it three more in case one doesn't work!

It's that kind of advantage to be able to just stockpile players and instantly correct issues with the squad that no other team has. Regardless of how rich (or not) the other teams are, they still have to make good choices and live with their bad choices. City don't. They can make as many bad choices as they want and there are literally no consequences.

In fact, I would argue City have made more bad transfers than most teams.

If you take City out of the equation, we're top...maybe all of the people whingeing should think about that?

Name them.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Why compare us to City, who we all acknowledge are leap years away from us.
A more level comparison would be Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester and Everton - teams we expected to be in a top 4 battle. All those have had injuries and tough times this season. Most will finish above us this season and we have spent more than the lot of them.
Failed by poor management.

No white text?

 

[largelyworried]

which teams this year look well drilled in the basics more than united out of interest?

As well as City I'd say Leicester, Chelsea since Tuchel took over, Everton and West Ham are all teams near the top that look well drilled this season. You can probably chuck Leeds in there too, even if their style is a bit boom or bust. Those teams have plenty of other limitations, which is why they're not top of the table themselves. You need more than just a well drilled unit to succeed. But its a key part of the mix, and certainly an area we struggle with.

We saw how well he did in his first season at City though. They were a disaster after their great start.

They finished 3rd with 78 points. We've only bettered that once in the last seven seasons. Lets not overstate things.

1 defeat in 21 doesnt scream lacking basic passing and shape to be honest.

For most of that run we had individuals fit and in form. We're discussing what happens when those players stop being available or drop out of form. That's where we are now, and why we're on a run of 2 wins from 8.

 

[rron10]

Failed to beat crystal palace because city is spending 200m on midfielder.

This. Also losing to Sheffield and drawing with West Brom.
We def need 500m to beat those teams.

 

[MinGin]

“we shouldn’t need all that money to beat Palace”

This ignores the fact that City have also fallen to Palace a lot in recent years. Because (and this really isn’t hard) a lot of teams can have off days and struggle. This will happen over a course of a season. Having eleven better players doesn’t always mean you will win.

HOWEVER, if you have eleven well rested players. And five subs who can come on to change the game... well you are at a massive advantage aren’t you.
No one is saying that we shouldn’t be beating Palace. Yes, we obviously would like to.

but in a season where we are above teams with better first elevens and equivalent clubs, it’s clear to see why city are the only team running away with it.

it is like some of you are lookingfor reasons to have a go rather than support. Some of you are assigning prices to Rashford and Greenwood as if that makes any sense whatsoever.

I agree with you, people also ignore the fact that 'Did the existing players (before Ole arrived) suited in Ole's tactic?' All squad are bought and turned by Pep and Klopp, and our side, but it is still a half startup remaining from the past manager. People knew that we had lots of dead wood before Ole arrival, but People may forget that we may have half-dead wood in our current team. Can we change the whole defensive startup plus bench players like City in one transfer window? No, we can't.

 

[R'hllor]

I just hope you fecks gonna spout same shit and have same standards when/if ever new manager comes in. Already plenty of hipocrits with double standards running around with sticks that were used against THEIR manager, in the same time those who were wielding those sticks vs JM, they made a shield out of it for Ole, United supporters btw. Thats just fecking weird.

None of those managers, current or past, did anything worth for any United fan to be so far up their ass and spout drivel on daily basis. There should be a universal line on the ground for standards that fits for club like Manchester United but then weirdos will start call you entilted and throw league positions in your face, 2nd,3rd,2nd etc. plus not to mention all other crap. People having a cheek to laugh at Amadeus, when in reality its a same shit just different rectuum.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

All this thread proves is how inconsistent people arguments are (before anyone comes up with did same people make other arguments, yes the same people did). All the arguments are based on whether you like the manager or not, whether you think the manager should stay or go.

Jose fans argued how Jose wasn't backed even when he spent loads of money both on transfers and wages, they argued how he didn't spend even more or how he didn't get Perisic, Willian. At that time people who wanted him out argued he was backed and should do better job.

Few of the Jose hardcores now argue that Ole is backed and shouldn't rely on not signing one player (like Sancho), it's ironic as these posters main argument was not signing Perisic. Now the people who wanted Jose out completely turned the argument upside down and argue how Ole isn't backed when he has spent as much if not more than Jose.

Not taking any moral high ground here, point is every ManUtd manager is/was backed sufficiently. Only exception might be Moyes and there might be so many reasons for that. Apart from that Van Gaal, Jose, Ole were all among the top spenders both in league and europe. "Wasn't backed" shouldn't be the argument.

It's all funny though how the posters are arguing against their old posts now.

This is a good/fair post. The Moyes thing is particularly interesting. Not only was he not as heavily backed, financially, he also got a lot less patience than his successors in terms of the time allowed to build the squad he wanted.

Now my personal opinion is that he wasn’t cut out for this job but it’s funny to see him take a team that cost absolute peanuts to within a couple of points of us, 27 games into the season, while a bunch of United fans are still complaining about how the club hasn’t spent enough money and Ole needs yet another transfer window before he can be fairly judged.

 

[A-man]

Of course it's true. I've tried to pick the core squad players from each team.

City
60m in 2 GKs (plus those that have come and gone since)
170m in 4 LB/RBs
200m in 4 CBs
220m in 5 CMs
200m in 5 FWs
= c. 850m for core squad.

United
20m in 2 GKs (DDG, Henderson)
95m in 4 LB/RBs (Telles, Shaw, AWB, Williams)
140m in 4 CBs (Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly, Tuanzebe)
220m in 5 CMs (Pogba, Matic, Fred, Fernandes, McTominay)
50m in 5 FWs (Rashford, Martial, Cavani, Greenwood, James)
= c. 550m for core squad.

We could add 7 or 8 £40m players to our squad before parity. Imagine being able to bring on Joao Cancelo instead of Brandon Williams, Mahrez instead of James, Laporte instead of Tuanzebe, Aguero instead of Martial. We'd be a lot less likely to see performances like last night.

The depth in quality for Manchester City vs the rest of the PL teams is a huge factor for this season's PL, absolutely no coincidence that every other team is suffering too.

We're doing very well under the circumstances, IMO. (Squad strength, pre-season prep, fixture burnout etc.)

A lot of people seem to have the impression that City invest big money wisely and United invest big money poorly. But it’s really hit and miss for City. If you buy 6 very expensive defenders, you are likely going to have 3-4 who work well.

Pep has spent £428.1million on 11 defensive signings
Oleksandr Zinchenko (£1.7m), John Stones (£50m), Danilo (£27m), Kyle Walker (£47.4m), Benjamin Mendy (£51.75m), Aymeric Laporte (£58.5m), Philippe Sandler (£2.25m), Angelino (£10.8m), Pedro Porro (£10.8m), Joao Cancelo (£58.5m), Yan Couto (£5.4m), Nathan Ake (£40m), Ruben Dias (£64m).

Manchester United – £228.6 million on six signings
Eric Bailly (£30m), Victor Lindelof (£31m), Diogo Dalot (£19m), Aaron Wan-Bissaka (£50m), Harry Maguire (£85m), Telles (£13.6m).



Source:

https://www.football365.com/news/fe...-428m-man-utd-liverpool-arsenal-spurs-chelsea

 

[Pogue Mahone]

A lot of people seem to have the impression that City invest big money wisely and United invest big money poorly. But it’s really hit and miss for City. If you buy 6 very expensive defenders, you are likely going to have 3-4 who work well.

Pep has spent £428.1million on 11 defensive signings
Oleksandr Zinchenko (£1.7m), John Stones (£50m), Danilo (£27m), Kyle Walker (£47.4m), Benjamin Mendy (£51.75m), Aymeric Laporte (£58.5m), Philippe Sandler (£2.25m), Angelino (£10.8m), Pedro Porro (£10.8m), Joao Cancelo (£58.5m), Yan Couto (£5.4m), Nathan Ake (£40m), Ruben Dias (£64m).

Manchester United – £228.6 million on six signings
Eric Bailly (£30m), Victor Lindelof (£31m), Diogo Dalot (£19m), Aaron Wan-Bissaka (£50m), Harry Maguire (£85m), Telles (£13.6m).



Source:

https://www.football365.com/news/fe...-428m-man-utd-liverpool-arsenal-spurs-chelsea

That’s another good post. City have been financially doping like maniacs for years now. So have a depth that no other club can hope to compete with, unless they have a season where absolute everything falls into place. A team full of players at their peak age, playing out of their skins. We even saw Liverpool have one of the best seasons in the history of the game two years ago and still came second.

That said, this is a weird season. Reminds me of the season where Leicester won the league. All our rivals have had a horror show for various reasons. And a club that has spent as much money as Manchester United, while being fortunate enough to avoid any major injury crisis (yet!) should clearly be closer to City and further ahead of the pack than we are now. The fact we’re not is on our manager. That’s where the buck should always stop. And if this current slump ends up costing us CL football...

 

[roonster09]

This is a good/fair post. The Moyes thing is particularly interesting. Not only was he not as heavily backed, financially, he also got a lot less patience than his successors in terms of the time allowed to build the squad he wanted.

Now my personal opinion is that he wasn’t cut out for this job but it’s funny to see him take a team that cost absolute peanuts to within a couple of points of us, 27 games into the season, while a bunch of United fans are still complaining about how the club hasn’t spent enough money and Ole needs yet another transfer window before he can be fairly judged.

Yeah, maybe Moyes is more suited to mid sized club where the expectations are at modest levels and he can work with specific type of players. Tbh it's good to see him back at good level, he was very good manager at Everton.

Regarding the complaining, I have said it few times. As per many fans the ultimate conclusion/resolution for every problem is transfers.

We are not controlling the midfield? Sign a controlling midfielder like Thiago
We are conceding goals? Sign a CB to play alongside Maguire
We are not scoring enough goals? Sign a CF who is scoring many goals.

How about signing a manager who can actually fix the issue? Take Chelsea as example, they looked no where near convincing under Lampard, even though they played attacking football and in most cases controlling possession. But under Tuchel they already look like a well drilled team with each player knowing their responsibilities with and without ball. You don't follow the instructions, they are subbed out immediately.

Even City, they had team of Fernandinho, KdB, David Silva, Yaya Toure, Sterling, Aguero who were outplayed by ManUtd under Van Gaal with players like Fellaini, Rooney (in midfield), Herrera, Mata, Young. The same team under Pep started to completely dominate the games. Even before they won trophies but with Pep you can clearly see how dominating they were.

Under Jose, the common excuse was "you sign players from midtable, you should expect midtable position" and then you see Liverpool team signing players from midtable and relegation teams, then they won PL and CL.

It's a shame that clubs around us have invested wisely (which we also did) and also added very good coaches (which we haven't).

We are so passive on and off the pitch, it's unreal that somehow we call ourselves as "the biggest club in the world". Chelsea realized they are not going anywhere with Lampard, sacked him and signed Tuchel who was available.

Liverpool under this ownership hired Dalglish when they sacked Hodgson, he won couple of cups so they gave him permanent contract. When things didn't go well they sacked him next season and then hired Rodgers.

Rodgers went on to have one of their best PL season in recent years but when manager like Klopp was available, they were ruthless enough to sack Rodgers and hire Klopp.

We lack that ruthless nature, we are somehow scared to make the changes. We don't have manager who sets high expectations. Under SAF 2nd was a failure because SAF saw 2nd as failure. Jose saw 2nd as failure at his peak, Pep won't settle for 2nd place. Managers sets the expectations, at Manutd we have hired managers who somehow lowered the expectations ever since SAF retired.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

The opening post also misses Jesus & Aguero who are part of a collective forward five they can choose from per game.

I think the benefits of their strength in depth has been exemplified this season by the intensity of games and the wear on players bodies. Whilst you need quality and they have it in abundance don’t get me wrong, in its most simplest terms, it really is a strength in numbers game as far as I’m concerned this season as to why they are so far ahead and moving further ahead every week now.

If you can rotate to their level unlike ourselves who basically play with the same front 4 or 5 players every game (as we have no other suitable ‘oven ready’ options), then of course they are going to be streaks ahead.

 

[Womp]

All this thread proves is how inconsistent people arguments are (before anyone comes up with did same people make other arguments, yes the same people did). All the arguments are based on whether you like the manager or not, whether you think the manager should stay or go.

Jose fans argued how Jose wasn't backed even when he spent loads of money both on transfers and wages, they argued how he didn't spend even more or how he didn't get Perisic, Willian. At that time people who wanted him out argued he was backed and should do better job.

Few of the Jose hardcores now argue that Ole is backed and shouldn't rely on not signing one player (like Sancho), it's ironic as these posters main argument was not signing Perisic. Now the people who wanted Jose out completely turned the argument upside down and argue how Ole isn't backed when he has spent as much if not more than Jose.

Not taking any moral high ground here, point is every ManUtd manager is/was backed sufficiently. Only exception might be Moyes and there might be so many reasons for that. Apart from that Van Gaal, Jose, Ole were all among the top spenders both in league and europe. "Wasn't backed" shouldn't be the argument.

It's all funny though how the posters are arguing against their old posts now.

I think it's got to do with people learning from their mistakes. We've been burnt with this shite before, we now know what to look out for.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah, maybe Moyes is more suited to mid sized club where the expectations are at modest levels and he can work with specific type of players. Tbh it's good to see him back at good level, he was very good manager at Everton.

Regarding the complaining, I have said it few times. As per many fans the ultimate conclusion/resolution for every problem is transfers.

We are not controlling the midfield? Sign a controlling midfielder like Thiago
We are conceding goals? Sign a CB to play alongside Maguire
We are not scoring enough goals? Sign a CF who is scoring many goals.

How about signing a manager who can actually fix the issue? Take Chelsea as example, they looked no where near convincing under Lampard, even though they played attacking football and in most cases controlling possession. But under Tuchel they already look like a well drilled team with each player knowing their responsibilities with and without ball. You don't follow the instructions, they are subbed out immediately.

Even City, they had team of Fernandinho, KdB, David Silva, Yaya Toure, Sterling, Aguero who were outplayed by ManUtd under Van Gaal with players like Fellaini, Rooney (in midfield), Herrera, Mata, Young. The same team under Pep started to completely dominate the games. Even before they won trophies but with Pep you can clearly see how dominating they were.

Under Jose, the common excuse was "you sign players from midtable, you should expect midtable position" and then you see Liverpool team signing players from midtable and relegation teams, then they won PL and CL.

It's a shame that clubs around us have invested wisely (which we also did) and also added very good coaches (which we haven't).

We are so passive on and off the pitch, it's unreal that somehow we call ourselves as "the biggest club in the world". Chelsea realized they are not going anywhere with Lampard, sacked him and signed Tuchel who was available.

Liverpool under this ownership hired Dalglish when they sacked Hodgson, he won couple of cups so they gave him permanent contract. When things didn't go well they sacked him next season and then hired Rodgers.

Rodgers went on to have one of their best PL season in recent years but when manager like Klopp was available, they were ruthless enough to sack Rodgers and hire Klopp.

We lack that ruthless nature, we are somehow scared to make the changes. We don't have manager who sets high expectations. Under SAF 2nd was a failure because SAF saw 2nd as failure. Jose saw 2nd as failure at his peak, Pep won't settle for 2nd place. Managers sets the expectations, at Manutd we have hired managers who somehow lowered the expectations ever since SAF retired.

The thing is, Ole doesn’t need to be a terrible manager to fail at United. All he needs to be is not an absolutely exceptional, world class manager. So it shouldn’t be considered an insult to question his ability to take us to the top.

Even though we’ve had some great runs with him in charge we’ve never seen the sort of transformation on the pitch you see when one of the top managers takes charge at a club and moulds them in his image. Even someone like Conte at Chelsea (and now Inter) has shown Ole up in this regard.

Ole does seem to be the best man manager since Fergie tbf. Creating a happier squad, who will dig deep if we go behind. And he deserves credit for this. But it couldn’t be more obvious (to me, anyway) that he is lacking at other elements of his job. Not bad at them. Just not good enough. Buying more expensive players won’t change this.

 

[Womp]

The thing is, Ole doesn’t need to be a terrible manager to fail at United. All he needs to be is not an absolutely exceptional, world class manager. So it shouldn’t be considered an insult to question his ability to take us to the top.

Even though we’ve had some great runs with him in charge we’ve never seen the sort of transformation on the pitch you see when one of the top managers takes charge at a club and moulds them in his image. He does seem to be the best man manager since Fergie tbf. Creating a happier squad, who will dig deep if we go behind. And he deserves credit for this. But it couldn’t be more obvious (to me, anyway) that he is lacking at other elements of his job. Not bad at them. Just not good enough. Buying more expensive players won’t change this.

+1

 

[jackal&hyde]

The point of that tweet imo is to show not just the level of investment, but unlike us over the last 7-8 years, investment done right.

Trust the Ole hating brigade to make it all about the current manager... talk about having an agenda.

 

[roonster09]

The thing is, Ole doesn’t need to be a terrible manager to fail at United. All he needs to be is not an absolutely exceptional, world class manager. So it shouldn’t be considered an insult to question his ability to take us to the top.

Even though we’ve had some great runs with him in charge we’ve never seen the sort of transformation on the pitch you see when one of the top managers takes charge at a club and moulds them in his image. He does seem to be the best man manager since Fergie tbf. Creating a happier squad, who will dig deep if we go behind. And he deserves credit for this. But it couldn’t be more obvious (to me, anyway) that he is lacking at other elements of his job. Not bad at them. Just not good enough. Buying more expensive players won’t change this.

Yeah agree with that. He has done decent to good job and IMO he has taken us as far he can. We have good squad and very good first 11. Like you said, you never get the impression that Ole is good enough to win the league and this is the best he can achieve.

Biggest job for coach/manager is to create a system where it hides the weakness of players and gets more than sum of it's parts, also one player missing should make the system crumble. That's the job of manager, something where we have failed big time since SAF retired.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

I don't get the comment nor do I watch much City. Please enlighten me.

If De Bruyne has an off day does he not start??? Unlikely right?

Or does he get subbed off earlier than the 88th minute?

 

[Leftback99]

I don't get the comment nor do I watch much City. Please enlighten me.

If De Bruyne has an off day does he not start??? Unlikely right?

Or does he get subbed off earlier than the 88th minute?

The point is that if De Bruyne is not playing well they have other top quality players to sub on and make a difference. We don't have anywhere near the same level of back up options and it explains some of the gulf in performances.

People are getting too fixated on the prices and missing the point. We know we've wasted an absolute fortune since 2013 which has put us in this position. Our three biggest attacking outlays in that time aren't even at the club (Lukaku, Di Maria and Sanchez) while City have got theirs spot on.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

I mean... It's true, but it doesn't explain why we couldn't beat a really poor Palace team, frankly. We had the talent to beat them.

 

[MinGin]

It's easy. Which of the following players are currently playing to their potential?

De Bruyne
Mahrez
Sterling
Silva
Foden
Gundogan
Ferran

Now do the same for our players. It doesn't matter who the players are if the manager and coaches can't get the best out of them.

God knows what is the potential ceiling of the players having. The potential is just extrapolate by people. So another says, who knows that our players aren't playing the best potential already? Even with Ronaldo (Brazil one) which having one of the highest potential ceiling, he was flopped due to many reasons (Injury).
The ability of De Bruyne at Wolfburgs, Mahrez at Leichester, Sterling at Liverpool, Gundogan at Dortmund were shown already before they joined City. Of cause, they are improved but is it's improved a lot? And ours? Who, Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Fred, McT, Shaw, Pogba etc. when they were in good fitness are playing worse than before Ole arrival / before they joined United?
They are selected to play when they have a good form/fitness, other than that, they were on the bench or not even selected. Can we bench all our first eleven when they are out of fitness? Our bench is at least one level behind our startup, even though our startup is not that good to compete with City's startup in terms of offensive/defensive Balance.
Also, everything is a two-way road, can the players understand the manager's lecture in 100%? Under Pep, if you cannot understand, you will be replaced immediately with another similar level players one by one with unlimited fee until the one who understand (36 players was bought with fee since Pep arrival). In United, yes! We paid big per players in that situation after Sir Alex era, but can we replaced to another big one? No, we can replaced them only after we sold him.

 

[groovyalbert]

How long is ' long-term ?'

Generally, I'd say working in 5 year cycles with exponential growth and development targets.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

The point is that if De Bruyne is not playing well they have other top quality players to sub on and make a difference. We don't have anywhere near the same level of back up options and it explains some of the gulf in performances.

People are getting too fixated on the prices and missing the point. We know we've wasted an absolute fortune since 2013 which has put us in this position. Our three biggest attacking outlays in that time aren't even at the club (Lukaku, Di Maria and Sanchez) while City have got theirs spot on.

Yeah and my point is that our manager wouldn't make the sub until there's 2min left.

 

[Leftback99]

Yeah and my point is that our manager wouldn't make the sub until there's 2min left.

Which is nonsense.

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

It’s not black an white as people make out. City paid £57 for Sterling.... but at Liverpool he was an academy player... Rashford and Greenwood are our academy players how much would they cost? Also if transfer fee is all that matters why is he adding Foden to the list.

Those City players he mentioned could easily not deliver under the wrong manager.... they are not performing simply because they cost money, they are performing because pep has COACHED a system that gets the best out of them. Under the wrong manager they could easily just be overvalued individuals.

Sterling used to be more wasteful than Rashford but Pep coached him and improved him greatly. If transfer fee was all it took for a player to perform then Maguire would be best in the world.

That tweet is actually very naive and shows a complete lack of understanding and disrespect to the work Pep has done at City. I get it, the guy is trying to defend Ole, but no need to undermine the work of another while doing so.

When everyone is fit we have

Bruno, Pogba, DVB, Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani, Amad. Can we honestly say Rashford has improved his overall play, can we honestly say that DVB is being utilised, does it look like Amad all be given a proper chance?

 

[Wumminator]

Yeah and my point is that our manager wouldn't make the sub until there's 2min left.

Well that is silly isn’t it.

who would you have subbed on against Palace?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Well that is silly isn’t it.

who would you have subbed on against Palace?

With 20 minutes to go I'd have gone:

AWB Bailly Maguire Shaw


James Bruno Matic Rashford

Cavani Martial
​

I'm 100% certain Fergie would've done the same. Hell, I'd have considered putting Telles left wing and just telling him and Shaw to keep whipping it in to Cavani.

 

[L1nk]

I think this tweet was shown that how bench power is important, when their players are out of form / injury / rest, they can replace another same or a little bit less quality player to play the game in all area. We !? We don't have such level players on the bench, especially our injury record since Jan.
Also, their skill of negotiation are miles better than our board, i don't think we can buy Gundogan-like players by that little cost (the brand of Manutd additional fee shall be considered).
And when you compare the transfer fee of city and united since Ole arrived, it is nearly same spending fee but they are strengthening 25 squad list and we are repairing start eleven.

In the last draw match is showing that our players have not enough stamina/fitness to push forward & play fast to destroy the low block team which play counter. Late tackle by Fred, a 5-yard pass fail etc were indicated that our team are out of stamina. It's relied on team selection & squad quantity and quality rather than the tactic.

I'd agree with your point if it was just the last match, but this has happened through multiple seasons now, at varying points of the season, not just recently which could potentially be written off as fitness issues, it's an issue with how we play.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The thing is, Ole doesn’t need to be a terrible manager to fail at United. All he needs to be is not an absolutely exceptional, world class manager. So it shouldn’t be considered an insult to question his ability to take us to the top.

Even though we’ve had some great runs with him in charge we’ve never seen the sort of transformation on the pitch you see when one of the top managers takes charge at a club and moulds them in his image. Even someone like Conte at Chelsea (and now Inter) has shown Ole up in this regard.

Ole does seem to be the best man manager since Fergie tbf. Creating a happier squad, who will dig deep if we go behind. And he deserves credit for this. But it couldn’t be more obvious (to me, anyway) that he is lacking at other elements of his job. Not bad at them. Just not good enough. Buying more expensive players won’t change this.

Agree. And a lot of people don't realise. Being decent is never good enough at Manchester United. Not for a number 9, and not for the manager seat. Given the clubs standing and ambitions, anyone who doesn't prove to be a top class manager at the club, will ultimately fail.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

Well that is silly isn’t it.

who would you have subbed on against Palace?

I'd have subbed Fred off at half time for Scott as it looked like Fred was attempting 1-2's with the Palace players.
I would have brought James on at 60 minutes for Cavani as he was clearly having an off day (with Greenwood going up top)
If the game had proceeded like it did, I would have brought Amad on somewhere after 70 minutes where we looked lifeless and happy to draw.

I'm criticising Ole's sub policy in general. Asking me who I would sub vs Palace when he's taken years to bring Cavani into the fold, frozen Mata out and given Donny games with the B team and 2 minutes at the end of EPL matches is a bit silly.

Ole has consistently not been using all his subs, making them very late and not using capable players in general.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The thing is, Ole doesn’t need to be a terrible manager to fail at United. All he needs to be is not an absolutely exceptional, world class manager. So it shouldn’t be considered an insult to question his ability to take us to the top.

Even though we’ve had some great runs with him in charge we’ve never seen the sort of transformation on the pitch you see when one of the top managers takes charge at a club and moulds them in his image. Even someone like Conte at Chelsea (and now Inter) has shown Ole up in this regard.

Ole does seem to be the best man manager since Fergie tbf. Creating a happier squad, who will dig deep if we go behind. And he deserves credit for this. But it couldn’t be more obvious (to me, anyway) that he is lacking at other elements of his job. Not bad at them. Just not good enough. Buying more expensive players won’t change this.

This was a very good post, especially the bolded line. Why people take that criticism so badly I don't know, 90%+ of managers would "fail" at United, and plenty would fail harder than Ole ever will.

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

This was a very good post, especially the bolded line. Why people take that criticism so badly I don't know, 90%+ of managers would "fail" at United, and plenty would fail harder than Ole ever will.

Exactly. The most easiest thing in football is to sack a manager who is obviously flopping and can’t reverse it. The hardest thing is to acknowledge when a manager has done well but has taken a club as far as he can, but that club can under the right hands be taken further.

 

[Bilbo]

This is a good/fair post. The Moyes thing is particularly interesting. Not only was he not as heavily backed, financially, he also got a lot less patience than his successors in terms of the time allowed to build the squad he wanted.

Now my personal opinion is that he wasn’t cut out for this job but it’s funny to see him take a team that cost absolute peanuts to within a couple of points of us, 27 games into the season, while a bunch of United fans are still complaining about how the club hasn’t spent enough money and Ole needs yet another transfer window before he can be fairly judged.

I've always had a lot of sympathy for Moyes and how it turned out here. The club blundered and gave him completely the wrong message by giving him a 6 year contract. That length of contract - if handed to me in that situation - would tell me I had a year to assess the squad and identify what was needed, so I can completely understand why he was hesitant to invest in that first summer and why he probably felt confident that the squad he inherited had enough about it to compete better than it did.

Don't get me wrong, he made some mistakes, but I would love to see an alternate timeline where he did get that 2nd summer to refresh the team.

 

[Leftback99]

I've always had a lot of sympathy for Moyes and how it turned out here. The club blundered and gave him completely the wrong message by giving him a 6 year contract. That length of contract - if handed to me in that situation - would tell me I had a year to assess the squad and identify what was needed, so I can completely understand why he was hesitant to invest in that first summer and why he probably felt confident that the squad he inherited had enough about it to compete better than it did.

Don't get me wrong, he made some mistakes, but I would love to see an alternate timeline where he did get that 2nd summer to refresh the team.

The one benefit of the doubt I'd give Moyes is that he would have made transfer decisions from that summer far better than the disastrous moves LVG made. Kroos for one was supposedly a done deal until LVG vetoed it.

 

[Lentwood]

Name them.

Seriously?

Just off the top of my head I could name -;

Bravo @ £25m - Awful and no fee recouped
Mendy @ £50m - Has only played 42 times for City in total since signing in 2017. Injury-prone and seemingly not fully-trusted by Pep.
Danilo @ £25m - Never established himself, eventually involved in Cancelo signing, used as part-ex plus cash
Mangala @ £37m - Awful, recouped nothing for him
Otamendi @ £37m - Not awful but not 'good enough'. Club recouped very little, if anything, on the fee.
Nathan Ake @ £41m - has played 6 games so far

Straight away I've given you £210m worth of players who are at best 'average' signings...which other club could splash £210m, recoup nothing and still continue to spend like a crazed lottery winner?

 

[Bilbo]

The one benefit of the doubt I'd give Moyes is that he would have made transfer decisions from that summer far better than the disastrous moves LVG made. Kroos for one was supposedly a done deal until LVG vetoed it.

I think you could have put pretty much any manager into the club at that time and they would have failed. The upsides to having such an influential man in charge for so long are obvious, but at the same time they leave a void that takes a very long time to fill.

 

[Giggsyking]

I just hope you fecks gonna spout same shit and have same standards when/if ever new manager comes in. Already plenty of hipocrits with double standards running around with sticks that were used against THEIR manager, in the same time those who were wielding those sticks vs JM, they made a shield out of it for Ole, United supporters btw. Thats just fecking weird.

None of those managers, current or past, did anything worth for any United fan to be so far up their ass and spout drivel on daily basis. There should be a universal line on the ground for standards that fits for club like Manchester United but then weirdos will start call you entilted and throw league positions in your face, 2nd,3rd,2nd etc. plus not to mention all other crap. People having a cheek to laugh at Amadeus, when in reality its a same shit just different rectuum.

This

 

[OleBoiii]

This is a good/fair post. The Moyes thing is particularly interesting. Not only was he not as heavily backed, financially, he also got a lot less patience than his successors in terms of the time allowed to build the squad he wanted.

Every United manager in the post Fergie era who didn't get CL football after a full season has gotten fired. The exception is Mourinho, but the odds of him turning it around was practically zero so that makes complete sense.

I'd also argue that Moyes inherited the best team. Yes a lot of work still needed to be done, but he had DDG, Evans, Smalling, Rafael, Kagawa, Valencia, Young and Hernandez. Players like Rooney, RVP, Carrick, Evra and Vidic still had 1-2 good seasons left in them as well, which should have made it possible to rebuild slowly.

LVG inherited the same team, except 1 year older and completely crushed mentally. Mourinho inherited an even worse team as LVG's rebuild was a catastrophe. A lot of Mourinho's signings were only short term solutions so Ole had a pretty big rebuild to do as well. Slightly easier than Mourinho's, but still tough.

 

[adexkola]

Seriously?

Just off the top of my head I could name -;

Bravo @ £25m - Awful and no fee recouped
Mendy @ £50m - Has only played 42 times for City in total since signing in 2017. Injury-prone and seemingly not fully-trusted by Pep.
Danilo @ £25m - Never established himself, eventually involved in Cancelo signing, used as part-ex plus cash
Mangala @ £37m - Awful, recouped nothing for him
Otamendi @ £37m - Not awful but not 'good enough'. Club recouped very little, if anything, on the fee.
Nathan Ake @ £41m - has played 6 games so far

Straight away I've given you £210m worth of players who are at best 'average' signings...which other club could splash £210m, recoup nothing and still continue to spend like a crazed lottery winner?

Bravo and Mangala are fair.

Danilo was signed as a backup. He performed that role well. Was flipped for Cancelo. Wasn't a failure by any means.

Ake has been injured. Too early to call him a failure.

Otamendi: made it into the PL team of the season in 2017-18. Was part of a defense that conceded the least goals in the league over 2 seasons, 2017-18 and 2018-19. Wasn't a failure by any means.

Mendy: crocked. It's not like anyone saw this coming, and until his injuries he was lethal in a 5-3-2. And to disprove this nonsense about Pep buying until he succeeds, he's won 2 leagues and is about to win a third, getting away with playing castaway midfielders at LB. Wouldn't he have bought another LB if he was this buy and pray manager?

Unqualified failures: Bravo, Mangala and maybe Nolito? That's not indicative of an awful transfer record by any means.

 

[Lentwood]

Seriously?

Just off the top of my head I could name -;

Bravo @ £25m - Awful and no fee recouped
Mendy @ £50m - Has only played 42 times for City in total since signing in 2017. Injury-prone and seemingly not fully-trusted by Pep.
Danilo @ £25m - Never established himself, eventually involved in Cancelo signing, used as part-ex plus cash
Mangala @ £37m - Awful, recouped nothing for him
Otamendi @ £37m - Not awful but not 'good enough'. Club recouped very little, if anything, on the fee.
Nathan Ake @ £41m - has played 6 games so far

Straight away I've given you £210m worth of players who are at best 'average' signings...which other club could splash £210m, recoup nothing and still continue to spend like a crazed lottery winner?

@adexkola

My point being, when United make mistakes we have to live with them - as do every other team in the league.

When United signed ADM and he never settled, we had to sell him and recoup most of the money before we could buy again. City wouldn't have done, would just have kept him or packed him out on loan, see if he came good, as has happened with John Stones.

Likewise, when United wanted to sign Maguire, we had to sell Lukaku and leave ourselves short in attack to fund the transfer. City wouldn't have done, would have kept Lukaku AND bought Maguire.

I could go on and on, Blind, Depay, Schneiderlin… all bought in for fees, didn't really work out, had to be sold before new players could be bought in.

Just to be clear, this is NOT a problem unique to United, not having this problem is an advantage unique to City though

 

[Giggsyking]

If city get Ole as the manager and we get Pep, guaranteed they will tail us in the table every year. It is disrespectful to compare Ole to any of the other current top 6 teams managers in the league including DM.