“The best way to defend is far, far away from your own goal” | BluesJr sings about the Blues

KirkDuyt

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
24,444
Location
Dutchland
Supports
Feyenoord
I know what you’re thinking, another City thread. Although it’s a Pep quote it’s not really about them.

How completely simple and true is that statement? I’ve always believed attack is the best form of defence. LVG had the right idea but was too cautious in his approach and made largely terrible signings however we looked good against our rivals whereas now we just look like amateurs at times quite frankly.

What do you think? Would you like to see us get back to a possession based game or you happy to sit back, not press and wait for our defenders to gift goals away?
You sir, are not very good at asking an objective question. Now would you like me to reply to this question seriously or would you like me to dress up like a bottomless Santa and beat you over the head with a bronze Pep statue?
 

Varun

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
46,772
Location
Mumbai
The money argument I’ve been seeing more of on here these past few months is just bitterness and toy-throwing in my opinion.

Of course, City have spent well. There is clearly method though, and I’m almost certain Jose would not have the same City squad playing the same way.

Most of City’s defensive strategy is just tactical. Not became they have the best players. Fabian Delph has been left back all season ffs, and Kompany is finished. He positions they take up allow them to control the game. Full-backs moving inside is not because Pep has ‘loadsa money’. The positions they take up to pen you in, and also to prevent a counter is also not down to money.

The money has obviously helped, although there hasn’t been that big a disparity between our spending to justify one team able to play good offensive football and us not. Likewise Liverpool. Their coaches just obviously know how to construct ruthless attacks. While we were passing up on Mané and pursuing Perisic for more money, Salah has come in and become the top scorer, in a very position we are desperate in.

We have spent enough money to be able to play a bit better than we are. In fact, we are second anyway, so the money we have spent is about right. There are obviously things we can change in terms of tactics and ideology though.

I always find it funny how Jose continually says how we ‘defend with XI players and attack with XI players’. This is exactly what City do so well. It’s all well us saying that, but they defend from the front amazingly well, and most of that is just down to positioning that closes off space.

I am confident we will improve though. I believe like Fergie, Mourinho will be pushed to take us up a level by the raising of the bar by City. We have the money to respond I think, and next year we should be closer.
I'm not sure why you decided to make this a comparison between us and City and decided I'm bitter and throwing my toys out of the pram. Am I allowed to talk about city in a thread about them without bringing United into it?

Regarding your point about this being about the system and not the players, is that why Pep shifted out the defense already in place including the keeper and spent a feck tonne there?

His system is quality btw, not sure why I have to mention that every time I point out the obvious that the system requires absolutely quality players to implement it.
 

Varun

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
46,772
Location
Mumbai
You sir, are not very good at asking an objective question. Now would you like me to reply to this question seriously or would you like me to dress up like a bottomless Santa and beat you over the head with a bronze Pep statue?
:lol:
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,025
Location
...
I'm not sure why you decided to make this a comparison between us and City and decided I'm bitter and throwing my toys out of the pram. Am I allowed to talk about city in a thread about them without bringing United into it?

Regarding your point about this being about the system and not the players, is that why Pep shifted out the defense already in place including the keeper and spent a feck tonne there?

His system is quality btw, not sure why I have to mention that every time I point out the obvious that the system requires absolutely quality players to implement it.
We all require quality players. I’m sure the ones we have bought have been with the intention they will be top quality too.

And my bitterness comment is in response to the general theory that City are where they are because they have spent (just a bit) more money than us. I think watching them would suggest it’s more than that.
 

Varun

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
46,772
Location
Mumbai
We all require quality players. I’m sure the ones we have bought have been with the intention they will be top quality too.

And my bitterness comment is in response to the general theory that City are where they are because they have spent (just a bit) more money than us. I think watching them would suggest it’s more than that.
The quality of players required to do what the OP is about is higher than the quality required to implement Jose's style.
 

vangagal

Full Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2015
Messages
4,127
Location
Far away from home
cruyff is more like his idol / role model , pep never receive football knowledge from him directly, meanwhile he played under van gaal for few years as barca captain and executing LVG tactic with his own feet & brain on the field.
Van Gaal style of football actually worked with decent player ( we had lot of possession and press high but create low number of chance more because our player were crap )
and if he wasn't such an annoying tw*t that made player dislike him
Are you really serious? The one who promoted Pep into first team was Cruyff, he won UCL under Cruyff, he won 4 straight La Liga tittles under Cruyff. Certainly, he was the direct influence for how Pep doing his football. Get your fact straight before spout nonsense like that. If anything, LVG's football just a poor version of Pep's one.
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,182
Location
Flagg
I know what you’re thinking, another City thread. Although it’s a Pep quote it’s not really about them.

How completely simple and true is that statement? I’ve always believed attack is the best form of defence. LVG had the right idea but was too cautious in his approach and made largely terrible signings however we looked good against our rivals whereas now we just look like amateurs at times quite frankly.

What do you think? Would you like to see us get back to a possession based game or you happy to sit back, not press and wait for our defenders to gift goals away?
Really bored with this myth that we looked good against our rivals under LVG.

We lost 3-0 to Spurs, were thrashed by Liverpool in the Europa League, lost to Chelsea and failed to even win a game against them under LVG, were thrashed 3-0 in 45 minutes by Arsenal, lost to City, lost at home to a terrible Arsenal team in the FA cup. He was only here for two years. That's an awful lot of games against rivals we performed really poorly in, in a short space of time, for it to be classified as "doing well"...Our defenders were also very good at gifting goals away in these games.

It's a genuinely baffling statement as it's quite simply a complete lie.

Defending far away from your own goal also only really works if the team you're playing isn't good enough to get the ball near your goal. In our case, there are plenty of teams who would be good enough to get the ball near our goal. We conceded twice in our last game to a team who spent most of the game on the edge of their own box.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,025
Location
...
The quality of players required to do what the OP is about is higher than the quality required to implement Jose's style.
If that were the case, maybe Jose will have us top with his style then. The evidence suggests that Jose wouldn’t be 15 points behind if he had better players. It’s not as if City have a team of Balon D’or level players.

If Jose’ style is easier to achieve, he should be competing. City don’t have Barcelona players.
 

Varun

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
46,772
Location
Mumbai
If that were the case, maybe Jose will have us top with his style then. The evidence suggests that Jose wouldn’t be 15 points behind if he had better players. It’s not as if City have a team of Balon D’or level players.

If Jose’ style is easier to achieve, he should be competing. City don’t have Barcelona players.
Lots of ifs there without actually saying whether you even agree or disagree with what I said.

Anyways, re what you said, I don't think mourinho is capable of producing a setup like Pep's regardless of the quality at his disposal. No manager is imo.

Not sure why his style being easier to achieve means he should be competing either. City have dropped just 2 points in half a season, let that sink in. It's easier to make a 1000 bucks than it is to make 100000, doesn't mean jack shit when it comes to their value.
 

Theonas

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
4,756
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
That was an interview when they were NOT playing well?
No, that is an interview where he states that he wants his team to play well which he goes on to define as having more possession "even against the likes of Barcelona".
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,025
Location
...
Lots of ifs there without actually saying whether you even agree or disagree with what I said.

Anyways, re what you said, I don't think mourinho is capable of producing a setup like Pep's regardless of the quality at his disposal. No manager is imo.

Not sure why his style being easier to achieve means he should be competing either. City have dropped just 2 points in half a season, let that sink in. It's easier to make a 1000 bucks than it is to make 100000, doesn't mean jack shit when it comes to their value.
Your second paragraph is basically what I’m getting at. It is in direct conflict to any notion that ‘City just spent more’. I think that’s a bit of a bitter theory, and one we all know isn’t the truth as to why they are much better than us.

For the record, I’m not saying the theory is all yours, just saying in general it’s one I’ve seen lots of. The reality, in my opinion, is as stated in your second paragraph.
 

Theonas

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
4,756
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
The money argument I’ve been seeing more of on here these past few months is just bitterness and toy-throwing in my opinion.

Of course, City have spent well. There is clearly method though, and I’m almost certain Jose would not have the same City squad playing the same way.

Most of City’s defensive strategy is just tactical. Not became they have the best players. Fabian Delph has been left back all season ffs, and Kompany is finished. He positions they take up allow them to control the game. Full-backs moving inside is not because Pep has ‘loadsa money’. The positions they take up to pen you in, and also to prevent a counter is also not down to money.

The money has obviously helped, although there hasn’t been that big a disparity between our spending to justify one team able to play good offensive football and us not. Likewise Liverpool. Their coaches just obviously know how to construct ruthless attacks. While we were passing up on Mané and pursuing Perisic for more money, Salah has come in and become the top scorer, in a very position we are desperate in.

We have spent enough money to be able to play a bit better than we are. In fact, we are second anyway, so the money we have spent is about right. There are obviously things we can change in terms of tactics and ideology though.

I always find it funny how Jose continually says how we ‘defend with XI players and attack with XI players’. This is exactly what City do so well. It’s all well us saying that, but they defend from the front amazingly well, and most of that is just down to positioning that closes off space.

I am confident we will improve though. I believe like Fergie, Mourinho will be pushed to take us up a level by the raising of the bar by City. We have the money to respond I think, and next year we should be closer.
Great post! It's really disappointing to see us act the way Liverpool and other teams were when we were under Fergie; moaning about refs and money. The fact this City team are using a full back who couldn't get into the Spurs side and another who was a forgotten about average midfielder. Their centre backs are the butt of jokes last year of Stones and Otamendi, and a barely every fit Kompany. Their defensive midfielder was playing his football in the Ukraine until he was 28 years old. I am not arguing that they have an average squad by any mean as I thought all those players had it in them to perform what Guardiola was asking for but to suggest that their individual quality warrants 18 out of 19 wins and making the best ever start in the PL verging on the best ever run by a European club whilst dominating possession, chances, shots, territorial advantage regardless of who they're playing is nothing short of absurd.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada
Are you really that childish? It absolutely crushes me how far behind City we’ve let ourselves become. The fact so many are still in denial about this is also sad. It’ll get worse before it gets better if we don’t seriously wise up as a club.
And how can we wise up, by sacking the manager? or do something else apart from moaning
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada
Really bored with this myth that we looked good against our rivals under LVG.

We lost 3-0 to Spurs, were thrashed by Liverpool in the Europa League, lost to Chelsea and failed to even win a game against them under LVG, were thrashed 3-0 in 45 minutes by Arsenal, lost to City, lost at home to a terrible Arsenal team in the FA cup. He was only here for two years. That's an awful lot of games against rivals we performed really poorly in, in a short space of time, for it to be classified as "doing well"...Our defenders were also very good at gifting goals away in these games.

It's a genuinely baffling statement as it's quite simply a complete lie.

Defending far away from your own goal also only really works if the team you're playing isn't good enough to get the ball near your goal. In our case, there are plenty of teams who would be good enough to get the ball near our goal. We conceded twice in our last game to a team who spent most of the game on the edge of their own box.
Don't be surprised to bash Jose , pep lovers in sometime will also say we looked more dangerous under moyes.
 

Theonas

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
4,756
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
And how can we wise up, by sacking the manager? or do something else apart from moaning
We cannot do anything. We have zero ability to affect any change and we should not be anyway considering our lack of qualification to make such decisions. If we are at a game or in a position that can directly affect the performance of the team, we should leave everything aside and support the team, players and manager regardless of what we think of them. Outside of that like on a football forum, all we are doing is attempt to express what is going right and/or wrong. Anything else would be quite dull I would say.
 

BluesJr

Owns the moral low ground
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
9,047
And how can we wise up, by sacking the manager? or do something else apart from moaning
Well I don’t know, maybe have an actual plan in place instead of aimlessly jumping from manager to manager? We need a director of football with a clear style and type of player/character.
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,182
Location
Flagg
Don't be surprised to bash Jose , pep lovers in sometime will also say we looked more dangerous under moyes.
Yeah. It just starts getting really sad when people have to re-invent history to enforce a point that doesn't really have any purpose anyway.

When Jose first took over at Chelsea, it was exactly the same thing, except he was innovative genius manager, and Ferguson was the past it one who's ideas and tactics were all outdated.

Now because City are top, Pep's way of playing football is apparently the only one that works. Everything else is dated or dinosaur tactics.

If pep had Leicester City and their squad of players sitting top of the league with a 15 point gap, people might have a point. Fact is City aren't even the only team in the league who try to play the way that City do. It just, amazingly, doesn't work as well when the players are less good.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada
Well I don’t know, maybe have an actual plan in place instead of aimlessly jumping from manager to manager? We need a director of football with a clear style and type of player/character.
That would be a nice way to start. Sadly this should have been done long back. I don't think many understand(not saying you) the gravity of mistake we made in appointing moyes and then the pathetic summer of 2015 where we wasted most of our money. I don't think Jose has been perfect but some of the criticsms he has got has been way over the top.

I want Jose to stay for one more season at least but he has to be start being ruthless and start scouting better players if his budget in truth is limited.
 

BluesJr

Owns the moral low ground
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
9,047
That would be a nice way to start. Sadly this should have been done long back. I don't think many understand(not saying you) the gravity of mistake we made in appointing moyes and then the pathetic summer of 2015 where we wasted most of our money. I don't think Jose has been perfect but some of the criticsms he has got has been way over the top.

I want Jose to stay for one more season at least but he has to be start being ruthless and start scouting better players if his budget in truth is limited.
I completely agree but I’d say it started go wrong in 2009 when we failed to invest the Ronaldo money properly then continued to not buy top talent when clubs all around us and throughout Europe were doing so.

Yes, we may not have felt the effects of this due to SAF being a genius but let’s face it, in the two CL finals reached, we were miles off. Better players would have bridged that gap.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada
We cannot do anything. We have zero ability to affect any change and we should not be anyway considering our lack of qualification to make such decisions. If we are at a game or in a position that can directly affect the performance of the team, we should leave everything aside and support the team, players and manager regardless of what we think of them. Outside of that like on a football forum, all we are doing is attempt to express what is going right and/or wrong. Anything else would be quite dull I would say.
Fair point. I don't think anyone should have a problem with criticism and different opinions. If everyone has a same opinion then this would be a dull place like you said.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada
I completely agree but I’d say it started go wrong in 2009 when we failed to invest the Ronaldo money properly then continued to not buy top talent when clubs all around us and throughout Europe were doing so.

Yes, we may not have felt the effects of this due to SAF being a genius but let’s face it, in the two CL finals reached, we were miles off. Better players would have bridged that gap.
Again nothing to disagree with that. I myself believe it was the summer of 2009 which started the rot. When city were buying aguero, silva and Chelsea were buying hazard Mata. We were buying Oberton, bebe, Owen et.al. We should have been more ruthless back then.
 

Massive Spanner

Give Mason Mount a chance!
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
27,894
Location
Tool shed
I was just thinking the forum didn't have enough City threads, especially ones from City fans licking Pep's butthole.
 

BluesJr

Owns the moral low ground
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
9,047
Again nothing to disagree with that. I myself believe it was the summer of 2009 which started the rot. When city were buying aguero, silva and Chelsea were buying hazard Mata. We were buying Oberton, bebe, Owen et.al. We should have been more ruthless back then.
This is the truth. Although many simply wont listen and have their head buried in the sand. There’s nothing wrong with admitting we’ve made massive mistakes and are currently far behind, to the leaders. That’s all that matters for a club or this size. Being 15 points behind in 2nd place isn’t an achievement, SAF would be angry with that and so should we be.

Yes, Pep has had an easier job than Jose as he had better players at his disposal and they are probably a year ahead in their development as a team, but I still feel like Jose has really been just below par overall since being here when we needed much more.
 

Keeps It tidy

Hates Messi
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
17,638
Location
New York
This is the truth. Although many simply wont listen and have their head buried in the sand. There’s nothing wrong with admitting we’ve made massive mistakes and are currently far behind, to the leaders. That’s all that matters for a club or this size. Being 15 points behind in 2nd place isn’t an achievement, SAF would be angry with that and so should we be.

Yes, Pep has had an easier job than Jose as he had better players at his disposal and they are probably a year ahead in their development as a team, but I still feel like Jose has really been just below par overall since being here when we needed much more.
Well the team in first having 58 out of 60 is not a normal occurrence.
 

Ban

New Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
26,022
Location
Zagreb, HR
Claiming it's bot a City thread while creating yet another City thread never works well.
This theme could have been discussed in on of other 16 City threads but I guess Blue jr. didn't see it that way.
 

BluesJr

Owns the moral low ground
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
9,047
I was just thinking the forum didn't have enough City threads, especially ones from City fans licking Pep's butthole.

Claiming it's bot a City thread while creating yet another City thread never works well.
This theme could have been discussed in on of other 16 City threads but I guess Blue jr. didn't see it that way.
Well no because it’s not really about City, it’s a quote from Guardiola about it’s about defending/pressing in actual fact.

I’m simply asking if you’d like to see a more possession based game again, certainly against teams relative to us or if you’re happy with sitting fairly deep and waiting to counter.
 

BluesJr

Owns the moral low ground
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
9,047
Well the team in first having 58 out of 60 is not a normal occurrence.
This is very true, but this is now the challenge we face so we either regroup and try and get there ourselves or we just accept we’ll never be as good. I’d rather the club proactively try to work with the first option.
 

MJJ

New Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
28,954
Location
sunderland(1)-Derby(1)
He’s right but you need a certain calibre to your squad to be able to do it effectively. Would love to see Pep take over Swansea and apply this philosophy without spending a penny.
He can't, as proven last year. Pep football requires top players with a specific skill set.
 

Massive Spanner

Give Mason Mount a chance!
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
27,894
Location
Tool shed
Well no because it’s not really about City, it’s a quote from Guardiola about it’s about defending/pressing in actual fact.

I’m simply asking if you’d like to see a more possession based game again, certainly against teams relative to us or if you’re happy with sitting fairly deep and waiting to counter.
It is, though.
 

EASTSIDE777

Full Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
794
Location
Bermuda
This is very true, but this is now the challenge we face so we either regroup and try and get there ourselves or we just accept we’ll never be as good. I’d rather the club proactively try to work with the first option.
So in reality we need to build a squad capable of winning every game. That's a tough challenge.
 

BluesJr

Owns the moral low ground
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
9,047
It is, though.
It’s about much more than ‘oh City are amazing’ which so many seem so sensitive too.

The reality is City are currrently ahead, why shouldn’t you talk about other clubs who are currently doing what we aspire to be doing? It would have been the same when Chelsea were miles ahead or even recently when Real are winning back to back CL’s. Other fans would have been doing the same when we won the treble/double. It is th nature of the sport. When you are on top you are the talk of the sport, I don’t see why that’s so hard to accept.

The thread wasn’t made with the purpose of fawning over City, it was getting at the idea that playing a more dominant game is a safer bet than sitting deep, defending in numbers when one mistake can heavily cost you.

Everyone likes different styles of football that’s what makes it special. I have always liked a more possession based game with fast and intricate movement, that’s just what I like to watch. I really don’t like conceding 2/3rds of the pitch and just waiting to spring, which is what we’re doing against the better sides a lot of the time. Does that make me a bad fan? I really don’t think it does.
 

BluesJr

Owns the moral low ground
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
9,047
So in reality we need to build a squad capable of winning every game. That's a tough challenge.
You have to aim to be the best and think you can win every game. It doesn’t matter whether you do or not, you have to believe you will. I really don’t think his squad has that mentality.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,025
Location
...
That would be a nice way to start. Sadly this should have been done long back. I don't think many understand(not saying you) the gravity of mistake we made in appointing moyes and then the pathetic summer of 2015 where we wasted most of our money. I don't think Jose has been perfect but some of the criticsms he has got has been way over the top.

I want Jose to stay for one more season at least but he has to be start being ruthless and start scouting better players if his budget in truth is limited.
Moyes signed two players. In the grand scheme of things, we wasted very little money. Also, by all accounts - he was interested in the right calibre of player anyway in Bale and Cesc, and was heavily reported to have lined up a move for Kroos in the summer before he left us.

Even Van Gaal didn’t sign bad players. The signings just didn’t work. I don’t think any reds had issue with bringing in the likes of Shaw, Falcao and Di Maria.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada
Moyes signed two players. In the grand scheme of things, we wasted very little money. Also, by all accounts - he was interested in the right calibre of player anyway in Bale and Cesc, and was heavily reported to have lined up a move for Kroos in the summer before he left us.

Even Van Gaal didn’t sign bad players. The signings just didn’t work. I don’t think any reds had issue with bringing in the likes of Shaw, Falcao and Di Maria.
Its not just wasting money that is bothersome, it is also the time. The point is we as a team did not grow from 2013-2016 and in that time the market has inflated big time. Now because of our lack of transfer activity from 2009-14 and poor activity from 2014-16 means we are playing catch up with other teams and hence paying extreme amounts for players. Which is why 300m right now would not help you build a team which could win major titles. Yes we can compete and finish in top 4 but to win we must spend huge again (as absurd as it may sound).
 

afrocentricity

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
May 12, 2005
Messages
26,793
It's pretty obvious if you ask me. Plus the further up you win the ball back, the more likely you can catch the opposing team off-guard and cause problems.
It's so obvious I don't even see why it's thread worthy.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,025
Location
...
Its not just wasting money that is bothersome, it is also the time. The point is we as a team did not grow from 2013-2016 and in that time the market has inflated big time. Now because of our lack of transfer activity from 2009-14 and poor activity from 2014-16 means we are playing catch up with other teams and hence paying extreme amounts for players. Which is why 300m right now would not help you build a team which could win major titles. Yes we can compete and finish in top 4 but to win we must spend huge again (as absurd as it may sound).
Maybe. But first we need a plan. We can achieve a great team without spending another half a billion, but the issue is that we must know exactly what we need to do with the money. I don’t think City have necessarily bought right off the top shelf -except for in the full-back area. It is clear plenty of time was saved by Pep arriving with a vision and getting straight to what he needs. Sane and Sterling are key to how he plays, stretching the pitch. Can you say that Mkhitaryan was bought with similar deliberation? He was likely purchased as we ‘need a creative player’ - but specifically, there has been little evidence as to how he fits as part of any bigger plan. This is why he was first played on the wing, then played centrally. It’s as if we were just trying to get lucky and it all clicked into place for him.

At the very top of the game now, it seems more planning is required. Just having a 4-2-3-1 of ‘good players’ likely won’t win many major trophies if the plan doesn’t go beyond ‘having a balance of attacking and defensive players’ of as high a calibre as you can find. That’s what we look like. Which is why we win against most teams who have inferior footballers to us, but against the better teams, and top coaches, we are coming up short. Everything about us is about the strength of the individual players. I see very little demonstration that any of our players would look worse if removed from our unit. Typically, we say the opposite of them. And that’s the problem. Spending hundreds of millions and not extracting maximum value from the individuals has been an issue for too long. That can only work if we were the only rich club and could get away with it on the basis that we can attract a calibre of player so much better than our rivals, that 70% productivity will win titles. That’s not the game anymore.

We haven’t even realised this is the main problem. It’s right under our noses. There’s a reason we make comments like ‘he looks amazing now but if he comes here, he’ll turn to shit’. From an offensive perspective, we have been poorly coached for years, relying on getting the most expensive forwards to just win games. That cannot continue. We need a brave enough coach with a proper vision for how the entire unit should operate. I don’t even care if that is as a ‘defensive’ team - just let all XI men know how they fit into this vision, and be purchased and coached deliberately. Then we may get somewhere.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
Another thread we're supposed to worship City and Pep in it. Great, exactly the thing this forum was missing.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada
Maybe. But first we need a plan. We can achieve a great team without spending another half a billion, but the issue is that we must know exactly what we need to do with the money. I don’t think City have necessarily bought right off the top shelf -except for in the full-back area. It is clear plenty of time was saved by Pep arriving with a vision and getting straight to what he needs. Sane and Sterling are key to how he plays, stretching the pitch. Can you say that Mkhitaryan was bought with similar deliberation? He was likely purchased as we ‘need a creative player’ - but specifically, there has been little evidence as to how he fits as part of any bigger plan. This is why he was first played on the wing, then played centrally. It’s as if we were just trying to get lucky and it all clicked into place for him.

At the very top of the game now, it seems more planning is required. Just having a 4-2-3-1 of ‘good players’ likely won’t win many major trophies if the plan doesn’t go beyond ‘having a balance of attacking and defensive players’ of as high a calibre as you can find. That’s what we look like. Which is why we win against most teams who have inferior footballers to us, but against the better teams, and top coaches, we are coming up short. Everything about us is about the strength of the individual players. I see very little demonstration that any of our players would look worse if removed from our unit. Typically, we say the opposite of them. And that’s the problem. Spending hundreds of millions and not extracting maximum value from the individuals has been an issue for too long. That can only work if we were the only rich club and could get away with it on the basis that we can attract a calibre of player so much better than our rivals, that 70% productivity will win titles. That’s not the game anymore.

We haven’t even realised this is the main problem. It’s right under our noses. There’s a reason we make comments like ‘he looks amazing now but if he comes here, he’ll turn to shit’. From an offensive perspective, we have been poorly coached for years, relying on getting the most expensive forwards to just win games. That cannot continue. We need a brave enough coach with a proper vision for how the entire unit should operate. I don’t even care if that is as a ‘defensive’ team - just let all XI men know how they fit into this vision, and be purchased and coached deliberately. Then we may get somewhere.
Which is why I said we did not grow from 2013 to 16 , instead regressed. We expect Jose to do miracles when in truth the job in hand is much more hard than people are expecting. Yes Jose has his flaws and for the present situation he may not be the answer but unfortunately for him City peaked at the time his team also started looking somewhat good. This is why people keep on saying on any other season we would have had a great shout at the title.

Having said that now the club has to decide where to go next. Jose anyways would not stay for that long, what next. If we want to play certain brand of football then appoint such manager, scout such players rather than overpaying for ordinary players. I was very happy this summer when we did not blindly buy James from madrid. Lvg or moyes would have gone for that route and got him without any plan. Again proving my original point fo how we did not grow from 2013-16.