Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by LeftyBlaster, Aug 19, 2018.
We need an actual philosophy and better players
No chance against city of today, they are level with the likes of Barcelona and Bayern
The gap would be a hell lot smaller though with Fergie
Maybe it's time we give the job to Giggs. He can' possibly do any worse now can he? Mourinho will always make us play as underdogs and that is unacceptable
Doesn't really need to. People aren't asking for a title from Mourinho. They're asking for a title challenge. Fergie would have certainly been in the title race past December unlike Mourinho.
Man United was at that level. Not consistently over 20yrs but for a good number of those . City have not done much to be compared to them.
As great as SAF was, I really think you are all underestimating how good this City team is. Even some of our best teams under SAF haven't come close to the dominance this City team showed last season.
We need a captain, a feking bad ass captain. Valencia is captain of Man Utd...this is a reflection of kind of players we have. Sign Terry for a year and let him bring these pieces together.
Problem is he won't sign.
You're underestimating Fergie. City was great last season, but it's nothing Fergie hasn't faced before. I'd argue our 2007-2008 squad would run City pretty close.
Sincerely hope the Terry you referred to isn't John Terry
We got 87 points and that was probably our best or second best ever team. Far better than our current one. City last season got 100 though, not even really close.
Even lvg used to beat the big teams
Yeah but we also had a tougher Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. This is back when these teams regularly reached the semis and quarter finals of the ucl and mostly got knocked out by another English team. The current United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal would get spanked by the 2007-08 versions of themselves
Why don't you also share the lottery numbers while you are blessing us with your Nostradamus predictions?
Problem is John Terry isn't the answer.
If John Terry is the answer, I give up. Atrocious suggestion
Points is a poor way to judge a team between different seasons, since there are many variables such as the level of competitions, injuries, tournaments involved. Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea was far stronger then than now for example.
That United 07/08 season team had the best defense and offense in Europe
edit: what @flappyjay said
Our biggest gains last season was against the top 5. Our biggest dropped points were against the other 15 sides
This is how SAF won league after league after league.
He hedged his bets by wallop ING the likes of Brighton which Mourinho consistently struggled against.
Ferguson figured out long ago that its those smaller games that won you the title because the top 4 clashes can go either way.
Pogba, Martial, Sanchez, Lukaku, Matic, Mata, Rashford and DDG .. Yeah, I can see Fergie leading this team to glory.
feck LVG for selling Nani and Rafael though we've been crippled on the right since.
So discussion has been reduced to an entirely hypothetical scenario of what would happen if Fergie was still coaching and had today's United in the current league?
Jesus how has debate sunk so low?
Rafael is not better than Valencia.
City are without a shadow of a doubt an outstanding team, really well coached who are riding a huge wave of confidence. But that was largely helped by no other team mounting any sort of challenge. They could play under no pressure all season.
One of the biggest disappointments last season was how soft United's defeat to City was at Old Trafford. 2 terrible goals from set pieces, confetti in the dressing room, team singing "park the bus" and that didn't invoke a reaction from United. There was the spat in the tunnel but no reaction on the pitch. Under Fergie that would have galvanised the group. Jose just can't seem to get that same reaction from his squad.
Coming back to the original point of this thread, the performance on the ball against Brighton was frighteningly bad. It's like the team is trying to learn how to play out from the back and has only got around to learning the "centre backs pass to Periera" part. They seemed to have no clue what to do next.
Another good week on the training ground and they might be able to get an occasional pass through to Fred or Pogba. Baby steps.
Fergie wouldn’t have struggled to put a shot on target against Brighton
Its very hard to say if Fergie would have won the title or not because the top 6 are all capable of winning the league now as compared to just the top 2 or 3 during Fergie's era. Having said that, I have no doubt he would have been able to produce far more attacking football with the current squad.
See one of my main issues with people on this forum is they just talk their feelings for the sake of it without actually fact checking anything.
Since we're on about the 07/08 team as a comparison,
We drew with Reading, Blackburn, Portsmouth and Middlesborough that season.
We lost to Bolton and West Ham (also City twice)
We scraped past Sunderland, Everton and Birmingham twice with shitty 1-0 wins.
We actually started on a terrible run drawing Reading, Portsmouth and then losing to City. Imagine the state of this place now if we did that
This is it for me - it’s not about whether this team could beat City, it’s about why Jose can’t get this team to outplay Brighton. Maybe the squad isn’t good enough to win the league, (in that City have a stronger 11), but Brighton aren’t City, and both teams can win or lose you 3 points.
Mourinho hasn’t managed a 5 out of 10 performance from this team yet - it’s not about the players.
No we need a cohesive team and system. I actually think we need more grafters and players who put the team first. Jose has identified players of this profile (Perisic/Willian/Maguire) but we failed to deliver on any of those targets.
Think for every Ronaldo, there was a park ji sung/fletcher/nevilles/nicky butt and more - players that were of inferior ability but were made to believe they were world beaters and performed above their level, we are missing players who work exclusively to tie up the lose ends in our team with their hard word.
No shots on target versus Brighton tells the story. Don't think Mourinho can get the best out of players, we need a manager that can, ASAP.
Watching Palace this morning made me think of this thread. Currently Townsend, McCarthy, Benteke and Zaha are playing some absolutely wonderful stuff. All one-touches and good movement.
So no, I don't believe we need better players to be half-decent football.
Looking at this situation
I think we need better players to be challenging for all trophies / winning major ones. But that should be the last part of a process in place
But we need to first use the current players to play better attacking football whilst being solid at the back, and get a style in place as well as challenging / focusing on league
There's no excuse for Jose on that.
I guess we should hire Hodgson ASAP then.
Very clever, totally didn't see anyone coming up with that response.
I actually find it encouraging. It's a reminder that fun football doesn't require the very best managers in the world, and it's almost impossible for us to appoint a new manager who will have us playing less attractive football.
I guess they will be happy even if they lose because they had fun. Playing great football style while winning nothing is fairly simple. Combining style with trophies is where it gets complex and exactly why only very few managers can achieve that. Zidane won 3 CL in a row playing quite a pragmatic football. I would pick trophies over style any day but unfortunately we are currently in the worst possible scenario. Shit style, no trophies.
Its more of a statement of mediocre managers being able to play some qualify stuff with half decent players . Something we haven't been able to do under Mourinho.
This, I agree with.
I think we had 3 shots on target?
The atmosphere as well.
OMG. Isn't it really really really obvious that there's a way to do worse?
Lol. The thread title drew me in under false pretences.
We have some of the best players in the world, but we don't have an established system of play, and they don't seem to be on the same wavelength as the manager.
The mark of a successful manager is wringing the best tune he can out of his players. Only Lingard and Young have thrived under Mourinho. World class players such as Pogba and Sanchez have not.
I'm a surprised it's gone the way it has. I thought Jose was a great appointment at the time, but it's not looking a good fit.
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