1 win in 17 against non-relegated teams.

SER19

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This is an astonishingly poor record. Martinez' late goal away at Fulham is the only win we have against a team still in the Premier League since the win away at City in early December. Can it be put right over summer? Are the names being mentioned anywhere near enough to think so?

For what it's worth, I tend to think every manager deserves a summer window and a full pre-season, but if we were to turn this around to even be competing for top 5 next season, it would be remarkable. The Europa run is disguising the fact that we can hardly lay a glove on any decent team in the league

Editing the OP to include the results, going back to 22nd December.

Man Utd 0-3 Bournemouth
Wolves 2-0 Man Utd
Man Utd 0-2 Newcastle
Liverpool 2-2 Man Utd
Man Utd 1-3 Brighton
Fulham 0-1 Man Utd
Man Utd 0-2 Crystal Palace
Spurs 1-0 Man Utd
Everton 2-2 Man Utd
Man Utd 1-1 Arsenal
Nottingham Forest 1-0 Man Utd
Man Utd 0-0 Man City
Newcastle 4-1 Man Utd
Man Utd 0-1 Wolves
Bournemouth 1-1 Man Utd
Brentford 4-3 Man Utd
Man Utd 0-2 West Ham

P17
W 1
D 5
L 11
F 12
A 31
 
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Can't be looked at in any other way than being unacceptable can it?

Amorim will get the chance next season I think and he needs to find a way to do (much) better or he won't be here very long.
 
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We haven’t even been unfortunate either. Pretty much outplayed and out fought every league game.
The Wolves manager has done three times the job of Amorim in less time.
But we are a CF away from world domination with him apparently.
Sick of the club sticking with lost causes. Opposition fans are loving Amorim and not one supporter of any other club is hoping he’s sacked - he’s that bad.
 
This is genuinely horrible. When we last won against a non-relegated side, I was still 25.

It’s genuinely disgusting how bad we’ve been this season. It’s even worse considering the fact that we thought that last season would be rock bottom.
 
This is a stat I learned earlier - and it shocked me. It really is damning. I genuinely thought he had more league wins than what he has.

If we don’t win the EL, unfortunately he has done nothing to give us any hope that he’ll be better than Ole or Erik.

I like the guy, he’s a breath of fresh air in press conferences. But he should be doing a whole lot better in the league with the squad he has.
 
soapythecat said:
We haven’t even been unfortunate either. Pretty much outplayed and out fought every league game.
The Wolves manager has done three times the job of Amorim in less time.
But we are a CF away from world domination with him apparently.
Sick of the club sticking with lost causes. Opposition fans are loving Amorim and not one supporter of any other club is hoping he’s sacked - he’s that bad.
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Not a single person has ever argued that.

Why straw man the argument when you don’t need to straw man the argument? It’s easy to critique his performance so far without resorting to hyperbolic nonsense.
 
soapythecat said:
We haven’t even been unfortunate either. Pretty much outplayed and out fought every league game.
The Wolves manager has done three times the job of Amorim in less time.
But we are a CF away from world domination with him apparently.
Sick of the club sticking with lost causes. Opposition fans are loving Amorim and not one supporter of any other club is hoping he’s sacked - he’s that bad.
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Outfought and outpaced more or less in some games ( Newcastle, Palace and Brighton definitely) and those games with Onana blunders. There were some ok performances and a showing of fighting character. It's not good but sure if you check many of those games were lacking finishing or taking of chances, while the opponent took their chance, for example Forrest an Wolves.
 
It’s weird that I’m not as worried as I probably should be, but to me it’s so clearly a personnel problem in so many games that it gets difficult for me to be so blameful. I watch our players get outpaced and outmuscled in the league by so many teams, and then when we actually play around these teams it ends up at the feet of a largely poor forward line.

Does that excuse the mentioned stat enough? Probably not no. But at this point I’m firmly in the camp of the squad needing a huge overhaul no matter who the manager is, so that’s my first focus right now.
 
'I tend to think every manager deserves a summer window and a full pre-season'

When did this become a norm? Isn't giving a 6-8 months free pass not enough? Is it followed at other clubs or is this exclusive to Manchester United that a manager need to spend half a billion before he/she can be judged? I have never seen it at any other club in all my years of following football. Usually, you need to perform and get the best out of the resources available before trust is placed upon you and you are backed with money. When did managers starting "deserving" the privilege without showing anything?
 
SER19 said:
This is an astonishingly poor record. Martinez' late goal away at Fulham is the only win we have against a team still in the Premier League since the win away at City in early December. Can it be put right over summer? Are the names being mentioned anywhere near enough to think so?

For what it's worth, I tend to think every manager deserves a summer window and a full pre-season, but if we were to turn this around to even be competing for top 5 next season, it would be remarkable. The Europa run is disguising the fact that we can hardly lay a glove on any decent team in the league
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Calm down, we haven’t given a shit about the league in months. We’ve a European Cup final to prepare for.
 
Insanity said:
'I tend to think every manager deserves a summer window and a full pre-season'

When did this become a norm? Isn't giving a 6-8 months free pass not enough? Is it followed at other clubs or is this exclusive to Manchester United that a manager need to spend half a billion before he/she can be judged? I have never seen it at any other club in all my years of following football. Usually, you need to perform and get the best out of the resources available before trust is placed upon you and you are backed with money. When did managers starting "deserving" the privilege without showing anything?
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Who has said Amorim should get to spend half a billion before he is judged? No one is going to have that much patience after the Ten Hag disaster.

We’re obviously not spending anywhere near that much this summer, so I’m not really sure what you’re on about. He was hired in difficult circumstances and with a lot of work do to get the squad moving in the right direction, and he’s going to be given a summer to start making that happen. And if there isn’t significant improvement next season he’ll be sacked.
 
On top of that we were outperformed by Southampton at home. And Ipswich we really struggled as well, appreciate Dorgu got a red card.

League form is atrocious and I don’t know why it’s been decided to write it off completely this season. I stopped watching the Premier League games weeks ago because it feels like everyone involved with the club has written it off, which is madness given the size of the club.

Amorim should be sacked whether we win Europa or not. Going back to 2017 when Jose won it most people weren’t happy because we finished 6th. Jose got sacked for losing 2-1 to Liverpool at Anfield. Now we keep managers after losing 7-0 to them and in relegation form for 18 months under 2 different managers.
 
Worst season since relegation season. He better win that Trophy.
 
Been banging on about this run for a while.

I’d say it is funny that we are about to repeat the same mistake as last season, retaining a horrendously performing manager due to a cup run. This time it is even more tragic though, since, as this stat shows, there is nothing to suggest we are capable of beating a PL side of Spurs’s level and actually winning the trophy.

We can probably also look forward to failing to beat West Ham too next weekend.
 
We bring in manager half way through season who plays completely different formation. This squad of players have pretty much refused to play any type of coached football for years. He gets rid of players who don’t want to be here or aren’t good enough and we bring in just Dorgu. We have no forwards….Have no goal scorer but we are starting to see coached team. The press is night and day from one player running and team losing shape, and Bruno has been sensational since team shape improve.

Anyone knee jerking after league game currently with half team of kids doesn’t deserve us to win Europa. Good thing is you won’t enjoy if we do.

It’s not like Amorim didn’t see this coming and ask to come at end of season. But he’s about to get us to Europa league final.
 
It should be unacceptable but it is acceptable because we have zero standards these days. And for the people saying, who cares, we're in the Europa. Ten Hag won the FA Cup. Was the enough? No. The league is your bread and butter and we've been awful.
 
I see improved performances from individual players, getting rid of bad eggs, a lot of bad luck with injuries, barely any signings in January. I don't think many managers would have made a success of this season given what was available to them, I'd give Amorim until the end of the year to see if he's the won.

If we have a poor start to next seaon though, I'd bring that deadline forward.
 
Josep Dowling said:
On top of that we were outperformed by Southampton at home. And Ipswich we really struggled as well, appreciate Dorgu got a red card.

League form is atrocious and I don’t know why it’s been decided to write it off completely this season. I stopped watching the Premier League games weeks ago because it feels like everyone involved with the club has written it off, which is madness given the size of the club.

Amorim should be sacked whether we win Europa or not. Going back to 2017 when Jose won it most people weren’t happy because we finished 6th. Jose got sacked for losing 2-1 to Liverpool at Anfield. Now we keep managers after losing 7-0 to them and in relegation form for 18 months under 2 different managers.
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I tend to agree, whether is the players, the tactics, the approach but we are so far off the needed quality of a decent PL side that I can't see beyond a 10th place finish next season, with this setup and this, if things improve of course, in a realistic way.
Our standards fell of a cliff since last season in such a way it becomes utopic to believe that we should blindly trust a project even if the signs are clear that this project simply doesn't work.
 
IRELANDUNITED said:
Calm down, we haven’t given a shit about the league in months. We’ve a European Cup final to prepare for.
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That excuse just doesn't wash im afraid. That run is 5 months worth of form and the best case for your excuse is that our new manager has allowed a culture of 'not giving a shit' to set in already.

Even if the league was simply a vehicle for training, we should be seeing improvement and cohesion, and we look worse than his first month.
 
Zumbi said:
Who has said Amorim should get to spend half a billion before he is judged? No one is going to have that much patience after the Ten Hag disaster.

We’re obviously not spending anywhere near that much this summer, so I’m not really sure what you’re on about. He was hired in difficult circumstances and with a lot of work do to get the squad moving in the right direction, and he’s going to be given a summer to start making that happen. And if there isn’t significant improvement next season he’ll be sacked.
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Who said it....let me find it out and get back to you on that.

The idea that a manager can't be judged before spending millions (removed the half bil so that it doesn't trigger you) of dollars to buy "his players" is an idea exclusive to Manchester United. Usually managers are required to show an improvement in performances and results before they are trusted with a pot of money. He wasn't hired in anymore difficult circumstances than the others managers before him. From VG to Amo, all were hired because we were a shit show before they got the job.
 
Insanity said:
'I tend to think every manager deserves a summer window and a full pre-season'

When did this become a norm? Isn't giving a 6-8 months free pass not enough? Is it followed at other clubs or is this exclusive to Manchester United that a manager need to spend half a billion before he/she can be judged? I have never seen it at any other club in all my years of following football. Usually, you need to perform and get the best out of the resources available before trust is placed upon you and you are backed with money. When did managers starting "deserving" the privilege without showing anything?
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That's just my own feeling. Pre seasons are really important and supposedly amorim himself didn't want to come until summer so I assume he just felt the squad wasn't right for him. But even with that context, I'm really alarmed by how poor we look against any half good team
 
It is just worrying how much work this team needs and how difficult it will be with our financial constraints. It is the exact same situation as when Ralf made the open heart surgery comment.

We're also seeing the limitations of thinking we can fill the gaps with youngsters. Players like Amass and Obi looked very much out of their depth which is exactly what you'd expect given the stage of their development. Dorgu at 20 years old looks incredibly raw again as you'd expect for someone with only a season and a half of top level experience. Young and cheap isn't the answer.

It looks as though we need: 2 goalkeepers, 2 wingbacks, probably another centre back, another central midfielder, another number 10, and another striker.

That is 8 players. And we cannot afford to compromise much on quality or experience.

So it will take at least two summers and next season there are likely to continue to be weak links and injuries will have the potential to be very costly.

Winning the Europa League is critical as it will earn us at least £100m in incremental revenues and increase our transfer budget.

But even that probably won't be enough to get us back into top 4 next season.
 
Astonishingly poor. The positive look is that I doubt we’ll have a worse league season for a long time.
 
And add to this the fact that we have been very fortunate that both Sociedad and Betis basically gave away the ties by very stupid sending offs. We have been playing like a relegation team for half a year, and thank feck that the bottom 3 have been just as bad, otherwise Amorim would have relegated us.
 
SER19 said:
That's just my own feeling. Pre seasons are really important and supposedly amorim himself didn't want to come until summer so I assume he just felt the squad wasn't right for him. But even with that context, I'm really alarmed by how poor we look against any half good team
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The feeling is not exclusive to you. I have heard it used from a section of fans for every new manager that joins this club.

Not just good, any half decent team. As you mention in the OP, we have only one game against the team staying in the PL this season. It's shocking really.
 
Been decent in the Europa against 2nd rate European opposition that are all slower and less physical than any PL opposition.

But under Amorin in the PL we have been frankly awful, other than the odd game we have fully deserved it aswell.

You would expect some inconsistency but we haven't been, we have just been poor. The worry is there is very little in the PL you can look at and go, yeah this might work with a couple of good players. But the general consensus seems to be we need 5-6 world class players to maybe compete for the European places. Not sure that's really going to work.
 
Read the other day we might finish the campaign with fewer points than in the season we were relegated

Edit says this is nonsense
 
hellhunter said:
Read the other day we might finish the campaign with fewer points than in the season we were relegated

Edit says this is nonsense
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Don't know where you read that, because it's not accurate. In the 1973-74 season we got 32 points, and it was even a 42 game season.
 
hellhunter said:
Yeah was clearly nonsense. Although that was with 2 points for a win, wasn't it?
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True. The results would have yielded 42 points today, so technically we still might finish with lower points total, but that would be 1.00 points pr. game, which we have surpassed this season even if we lose the remaining games.
 
Lowered standards are a club issue brought upon by the constant desire for revolution and starting from fresh because of the previous project going badly, when preferably it would be a new manager iterating and improving upon what the previous one had done, evolving the squad gradually.

Pretty much guaranteed that if Amorin fails Utd will be right back into the same cycle. Worst case scenario is sell Garnacho and Mainoo this Summer to fund the purchases of players suited to his system, still deep in the bottom half by Christmas, sacked, new manager with a different style, rip it up and start again. All with the same we can't judge the manager until we give him his own squad and 18 months.

The club has no vision for the most important area, and expect a manager to bring it with them. This season was guaranteed to be a disaster from 2 days after the FA Cup final.
 
If we lose the Europa, Amorim should be relieved of his duties. I expected us to be bad but not this bad. I go into every game expecting us to lose/nick a draw.
 
thisisnottaken1 said:
This is genuinely horrible. When we last won against a non-relegated side, I was still 25.

It’s genuinely disgusting how bad we’ve been this season. It’s even worse considering the fact that we thought that last season would be rock bottom.
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I mean, I'm not sure why anyone would have thought last season would be rock bottom. All of our measurable performance metrics suggested we shouldn't even be in the top half of the table, and most of our players were being badly managed, and then we didn't really change anything at all over the summer. Just signed some more players for a manager we knew we were going to bin off. The only thing to base the idea we wouldn't be worse on was, well, baseless optimism.

Since then we've sacked a manager mid season and brought in a new one with completely different ideals to manage a fractured mess of a squad, at the same time as our owner was going on an extremely public negativity/de-motivation rampage...and now that's finally settled down we have f*ck all to play for outside of the Europa League and nowhere near a strong enough squad to prioritise both that and the league.

None of it has really been a surprise and though I think there's some fair criticisms to throw at Amorim since he's joined, not much of it is actually anything to do with him, or anything he has had any control over..
 
Anybody fancying Amorim to be removed please state the name of the person you want to replace him.

No gimmicks, no more exposition. Just names.

OP is not wrong. It's not been anywhere near good enough this season. EL win, if it happens (I don't think so) is paper over cracks. But the league was over when Amorim took charge. It was over when we lost to BHA second game in.

Long long way back.
 
Baffling.

It's the perfect storm really. We have a squad full of underperforming players on high wages making it difficult to sell and create some leverage within the FFP-rules. All while, we've been through a long period with zero development of the club infrastructure, strategy, stadium, recruitment, on-field tactics etc.

Now we wan't to rebuild while having heavy limitations on our budget, and are stuck with a lot of bad investments who doesn't fit into the team.

Horrific and unforgivable way this club has been run the past 15 years or so.
 
Bobski said:
Lowered standards are a club issue brought upon by the constant desire for revolution and starting from fresh because of the previous project going badly, when preferably it would be a new manager iterating and improving upon what the previous one had done, evolving the squad gradually.

Pretty much guaranteed that if Amorin fails Utd will be right back into the same cycle. Worst case scenario is sell Garnacho and Mainoo this Summer to fund the purchases of players suited to his system, still deep in the bottom half by Christmas, sacked, new manager with a different style, rip it up and start again. All with the same we can't judge the manager until we give him his own squad and 18 months.

The club has no vision for the most important area, and expect a manager to bring it with them. This season was guaranteed to be a disaster from 2 days after the FA Cup final.
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I agree with most of this, but I think the risk of getting players that fits Amorim's system is sometimes a bit overstated. The bigger risk is getting players that simply aren't good enough. If we get players with the right physical and technical attributes I would expect them to be able to perform well in different systems. A good signing in the summer meant for Amorim's system wouldn't necessarily be a write-off if we then switched managers.

Changing managers, line-ups and philosophies has certainly been a part of the problem over the last decade, but I still think overall recruitment has been the bigger issue. We get overrun in midfield because the likes of Casemiro, Eriksen, and Mainoo are too slow for the PL. We don't score goals because Højlund is really poor and Garnacho is super inconsistent. We let in unnecessary goals because Onana isn't good enough. Players overall lack of quality is still such a massive problem, whichever formation we put them in.
 
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