10 below average (or worse) players in the squad. When do we start selling them?

[Alemar]

Lukaku is average?
Bailly is below average while Smalling is average?

Lukaku is average for the way we want to play - it is no surprise so many people are disappointed with his performances for Man Utd. His deficiencies were discussed hundreds of times, but he can be a better fit for another playing system.

Smalling is average for the level we need to obtain and preserve. I don’t know what your criteria are, but for me, a CB at Man Utd shouldn’t be unable to play with the ball at his feet - as such are the requirements of modern football.

From a purely defensive standpoint I would classify him as “good for Man Utd”, but the times of old school “defensive defenders” are long gone. Still, in my opinion he is the second best CB in the current team and will be third, should we finalize Maguire.

With Bailly - well, his performances are visibly worse when compared to Smalling, and he is more injury prone, as such “below average”.

Perhaps I am too harsh on players, but I have been supporting the club since the tenure of Cantona and have seen a lot of good and better players here. Sadly, currently we don’t have many. But, again, I am simply expressing personal opinion (I guess that’s one of the things the forum is for)

 

[Man of Leisure]

Absolute shite, potential to be shite.

 

[Ducklegs]

Your'e very hard to please, it seems the majority of our players in your eyes is either way below average or absolute shite.

In his defense, the majority of our players are absolute shite.

 

[Dyslexic Untied]

This place is just horrendous at the moment.

 

[Moonwalker]

This is Red Cafe metastasis. The word 'average' is getting so tediously overused everywhere on the forum, but this thread really steals the show.

By making average a descriptor relative to United squad only, the absurdity is taken up a notch, because it becomes so circular, so as to lose any meaning whatsoever. You do realise you'll never not have a squad with 10 average players, even if you fill it with the worlds eleven, because then world class just becomes average.

You have to use some wider frame of reference for words like that to be pertinent.

 

[Moonwalker]

Absolute shite, potential to be shite.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Bailly, Fred and Pereira need a proper run. I find it funny that we all romanticize unknown players from inferior leagues while dissing our own players with potential.

Maybe Fred, but he has got a long way to go.

Pereira has had his chances and didn’t took them, Bailly has been 3 years here and couldn’t even secure his place in one of the worst cbs pairs we’ve had in recent times.

 

[King Andow]

In the last 18 months, we've seen new contracts for all of Jones, Young, Martial, Rojo, Mata, Smalling, Shaw and Pereira, with Lingard reportedly in negotiations too.

Should have let most of that lot leave on free transfers.

Exactly, the board fecked up. Smalling is not good enough too but for now is ok to have him in the squad as Bailly (currently), Jones and Rojo are not reliable at all, and crocks. The latter two should already be gone alongside Young, Mata and Lingard.

For the players who should be out, in my view, here's what I'd do:

FB:
Young (contract until Summer 2020) - Shouldn't have the contract. Let it expire and only play him under an injury crisis if Brandon Williams, Laird and O'Connor are not available, they would offer basically the same and are young guys with potential.
Darmian (contract until Summer 2020) - Same with Young. Sell if any offer comes or let it expire.
*Bring a new LB in January (doesn't look that we're working on that now).

CB:
Rojo (contract until Summer 2021!) - Shouldn't have the contract. Sell at the first offer if miracles exist or try to loan to an argentinian club or some other shit until it expires. Don't play him.
Jones (contract until Summer 2023, fecking hell) - Nobody will buy him, I even doubt that someone would want him even if we're paying the wages. Let him in the bench on meaningless matches, don't play him ahead of any CB not named Marcos. Suffer until it goes away.
Bailly (contract until Summer 2020) - Last chance this season, if he doesn't show up, release at the end or extend for a year, maybe for a loan, if he shows glimpses of a potential.

CDM:
Matic (contract until Summer 2020) - I believe we're going to regret not buying a replacement now. Don't start him often, rotate with Garner on the bench, let it expire.

CM:
Pereira (contract until Summer 2023) - I honestly don't know yet, maybe a loan to an EPL club where he'd get the minutes since he'll not be playing much and we have Gomes. Wouldn't be against a sell with a buyback clause too, in that case. Or, another chance here playing in the cups and grabbing minutes out of injuries and suspensions, I don't know if that would be enough, but he can prove he belongs.

Attacking players:
Lingard (contract untill Summer 2021) - If there's a club dumb enough to buy, sell at the first opportunity, don't care for how much. I doubt that it'll happen though, it looks that we are the dumb ones, beans fecking beans. It's hard to take. DON'T RENEW and let it expire if so. Don't let him play more than Gomes, Greenwood and of course Martial and Rashford.
Mata (contract until Summer 2021) - Shouldn't have the contract. Playing time: Same with Lingard.
Sanchez (contract until Summer 2022, feck off) - Please China, never asked you anything. Playing time while here: Same with Lingard and Mata.
Lukaku (contract until Summer 2022) - Sell already. Playing time while here: Same with Lingard, Mata and Sanchez.

 

[Red Devil's Advocate]

Maybe Fred, but he has got a long way to go.

Pereira has had his chances and didn’t took them, Bailly has been 3 years here and couldn’t even secure his place in one of the worst cbs pairs we’ve had in recent times.

Bailly has had a bad run of injuries, which obviously meant he had to begin the settling in right from scratch, multiple times. Made a few rash decisions on the pitch but that's what is bound to happen if you play with Smalling by your side everyday. He has an emphatic presence whenever on song. I sense he will be the 3rd CB, if not the first choice, provided he stays fit.

Pereira is just getting started. If it were in your control, you would have sold Fletcher way before he started delivering. With improved workrate he, along with Fred, is the one filling in for Herrera this year as a dynamic midfielder with sound technique.

 

[MichaelRed]

I love the what to do bits where you just say 'Buy a very good player'. I guess it's just that easy?

 

[jesperjaap]

Your'e very hard to please, it seems the majority of our players in your eyes is either way below average or absolute shite.

Think he is being kind. People can also talk about we dont have time to shift all these players in one window but it should have started last summer with a clear out.

We have a big squad, actually quite a deep squad but we have a really average first eleven. I do think Greenwood and Gomes are excellent prospects but forgetting the youngsters just look at that list.....seven central defenders and not one of them is quality.

We have sorted the right back spot as that is a genuine world class potential signing we have made there, a good back up in Dalot and with Shaw on the left, happy with the full backs, but that central defence desparately needs changing.

We should be lucky in that we actually have three world class players.....actually that is wrong we have two DeGea who has been superb generally, Sanchez who has been the complete opposite and then people will say Pogba who has lots of ability but has never been world class....and the rest of our central midfield Fred, Perreira, Matic, McTominay.....who is being lauded for being ironically average much the same way as Lindelof in defence as others have been so poor and then we have a forward line that just hasnt functioned whatsoever and we talk about there ability...not so sure.

Just look at our squad and defend the ability of these players then remember who we are and that in the last 25 years we have had the likes of Sccmeichel, Van der Sar Evra, Irwin, Neville, Ferdinand, Vidic, Bruce, Pallister, Robson, Ince, Scholes, Keane, Beckham, Carrick, Ronaldo Giggs, Kanchelskis, Van Nistlerooy, Cantona, Rooney, Hughes......there are barely any players in this squad with anywhere near the ability, leadership, heart and professionalism of these past players. I know we have been lucky to have these past players.....but, this present lot, taking away DeGea, the youngsters and new signing of Bissaka, there is barely a player I like out of all of them which is sad to say

 

[arnie_ni]

Ive sort of being saying 10 out for a while.

Valencia - gone
Darmian
Jones
Rojo
Bailly
Young
Matic
Sanchez
Lukaku
Mata

It obviously can't be done in one window. But it needs to happen.

We need a starting cb cmx2 rw and possible forward depending on how greenwood/rash improve.

Promote the likes of tuanzabe garner and Gomez along with a few new squad signings.

 

[jesperjaap]

Ive sort of being saying 10 out for a while.

Valencia - gone
Darmian
Jones
Rojo
Bailly
Young
Matic
Sanchez
Lukaku
Mata

It obviously can't be done in one window. But it needs to happen.

We need a starting cb cmx2 rw and possible forward depending on how greenwood/rash improve.

Promote the likes of tuanzabe garner and Gomez along with a few new squad signings.

WIthout arguing it kind of was possible in one window if we had of got moving straight away as other club have.....half of those players should have been moved on last summer and three of the other five could have been sold in January.....that would have only left two to seel this summer (I would actually have added 2/3 more personally but even then 5 in one window is certainly possible).

I also think we should have signed Bissaka LAST summer and there should have been three other signings made last summer. Really this window we should have only been needing to sign a second centre back (as one should have been signed last year), a new anchor man to replace Matic and a midfielder to replace Pogba who should be sold or should have this summer.....we should have been completing a rebuild this summer, instead we have barely even started one and dont look like doing so

 

[jesperjaap]

Exactly, the board fecked up. Smalling is not good enough too but for now is ok to have him in the squad as Bailly (currently), Jones and Rojo are not reliable at all, and crocks. The latter two should already be gone alongside Young, Mata and Lingard.

For the players who should be out, in my view, here's what I'd do:

FB:
Young (contract until Summer 2020) - Shouldn't have the contract. Let it expire and only play him under an injury crisis if Brandon Williams, Laird and O'Connor are not available, they would offer basically the same and are young guys with potential.
Darmian (contract until Summer 2020) - Same with Young. Sell if any offer comes or let it expire.
*Bring a new LB in January (doesn't look that we're working on that now).

CB:
Rojo (contract until Summer 2021!) - Shouldn't have the contract. Sell at the first offer if miracles exist or try to loan to an argentinian club or some other shit until it expires. Don't play him.
Jones (contract until Summer 2023, fecking hell) - Nobody will buy him, I even doubt that someone would want him even if we're paying the wages. Let him in the bench on meaningless matches, don't play him ahead of any CB not named Marcos. Suffer until it goes away.
Bailly (contract until Summer 2020) - Last chance this season, if he doesn't show up, release at the end or extend for a year, maybe for a loan, if he shows glimpses of a potential.

CDM:
Matic (contract until Summer 2020) - I believe we're going to regret not buying a replacement now. Don't start him often, rotate with Garner on the bench, let it expire.

CM:
Pereira (contract until Summer 2023) - I honestly don't know yet, maybe a loan to an EPL club where he'd get the minutes since he'll not be playing much and we have Gomes. Wouldn't be against a sell with a buyback clause too, in that case. Or, another chance here playing in the cups and grabbing minutes out of injuries and suspensions, I don't know if that would be enough, but he can prove he belongs.

Attacking players:
Lingard (contract untill Summer 2021) - If there's a club dumb enough to buy, sell at the first opportunity, don't care for how much. I doubt that it'll happen though, it looks that we are the dumb ones, beans fecking beans. It's hard to take. DON'T RENEW and let it expire if so. Don't let him play more than Gomes, Greenwood and of course Martial and Rashford.
Mata (contract until Summer 2021) - Shouldn't have the contract. Playing time: Same with Lingard.
Sanchez (contract until Summer 2022, feck off) - Please China, never asked you anything. Playing time while here: Same with Lingard and Mata.
Lukaku (contract until Summer 2022) - Sell already. Playing time while here: Same with Lingard, Mata and Sanchez.

Agree with your sentiment though unless he is causing trouble in the dressing room and having a bad influence on others, Lingard we should keep. Problem is him being the starter but he is a very good squad option.

Also think it is way to early to even consider Garner. I think Greenwood and Gomes are ready, I personally dont rate Chiong at all from what I have seen of him but I do think as poor as we are, you are putting a bit too much faith in too many of our youngsters.

I think selling wise, other clubs paying the wages is a big problem in getting rid of these players......so yes of coruse giving so many contracts is ludicrous. We also seem to have changed our stance and not wanting to sell players unless our wanted fees are met, which should be a good thing, but with the performances being so poor and wages so high, think its the wrong stance. Howwever, poor as they have been when I hear people saying they wouldnt buy the likes of Rojo, JOnes or Bailly for £2.5m.....come on, in todays market even a really poor defender would cost you £15m.....those 3 even bare minimum should be raising £50m

 

[Hawks2008]

Rojo, Bailly, Jones, Darmian, Mata, Young should all have been let go. The fact we continue to reward their mediocrity astounds me and we will be stuck with these wasters for longer now. Working a way to get Sanchez out should have been a priority.

The club are just a joke, they want to give these guys lengthy deals because it's cheaper than actually bringing the players we need through the door.

 

[The Boy]

One of the main problems with the squad is a huge amount of average or worse players. It may be Ok for a club which plans to fight relegation, but for Man Utd hoarding such players shall not be the way to go. Let's look at the squad by position.

GK:
1) de Gea (World Class)
2) Romero (Good)
3) Joel Pereira (absolute shite)
4) Henderson (average, good potential, but not at all needed in a team with de Gea on a 6 year deal)
5) Lee Grant (absolute shite)

What to do: sell Joel Pereira, try to extend Henderson in order to preserve his market value

RB:
1) AWB (very good, with potential to be WC)
2) Dalot (average, with more potential to excel as a winger)
3) Young (below average as back up, shall be the last season for him)
4) Darmian (absolute shite)

What to do: sell Darmian

LB:
1) Shaw (good, with potential to be very good)
2) Young
3) Dalot

What to do: nothing

CB:
1) Lindelof (good, with potential to be very good at least)
2) Smalling (average)
3) Jones (below average)
4) Bailly (below average)
5) Marcos Rojo (absolute shite)
6) Tuanzebe (real quality yet unknown)
3) Fosu Mensah (long term injury, below average ability with limited upside)

What to do: buy a very good defender (Maguire?), sell any two of three worst players (Jones, Bailly, Rojo) for any fee or alternatively sell Smalling for a relatively large fee and also sell one of the above mentioned trio.

CDM:
1) Matic (below average, declining with time)
2) McTominay (average, with potential to become very good)
3) Garner (quality unknown, but without experience he can't be relied upon in this role)

What to do: buy a very good DM (we haven't been linked with anyone), test Garner in a few matches, pray for McTominay not to feck up...

CM:
1) Pogba (World class, can also play different positions across midfield, undisputable starter)
2) Fred (average, with potential to become good)
3) Pereira (below average, potential to become average)

What to do: sell Pereira as he is the worst of the lot, buy a very good player with ability to create goals and handle pressure to become less reliant on Pogba

CAM:
1) Lingard (average, no potential to improve as he lacks end product)
2) Mata (below average, in decline)
3) Gomes (quality unknown, potential to become very good or even better)
4) Alexis (may be used in this position, below average, potential to become very good if he finds his form)

What to do: play Gomes and hope he delivers, sell Mata, buy a very good CAM

RW/RF:
1) none
2) Mason Greenwood (already looks good, potential to become WC, may also play as #9)
3) none
4) Tahith Chong (quality yet unknown, potential to become good or better, but looks better on the left)

What to do: perhaps finally buy someone for this role?

LW/LF:
1) Martial (good, potential to be World class but lacks dedication, may also play as #9)
2) James (quality still unknown, potential unknown)
3) Tahith Chong (quality still unknown, potential to become good)
4) Alexis (absolute shite, looks finished)

What to do: offload Alexis to China

Striker/CF:
1) Rashford (good, potential to be very good but unlikely better)
2) Lukaku (average, no potential to improve under OGS' tactics)

What to do: sell Lukaku. Use Greenwood and Alexis as back up for Rashford.

Conclusion:
World class players - 2 (de Gea, Pogba)
Very good players - 1 (AWB)
Good players - 6 (Lindelof, Shaw, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, Romero)
Average players - 5 (Smalling, McTominay, Fred, Lingard, Lukaku, Henderson)
Below average players - 5 (Young, Jones, Bailly, Matic, Pereira)
Absolute shite - 5 (Joel Pereira, Lee Grant, Darmian, Marcos Rojo, Alexis)
Quality still unknown - 5 (Tuanzebe, Gomes, Garner, Chong, James)

Only 9 above average players, including back-up goalkeeper and a 17-year old youngster. 10 below average or worse players (and 16 average or worse players). The amount of deadwood / players who are not good enough is somewhat concerning. When do we plan to start disposing off them?

In his defense, the majority of our players are absolute shite.

You should try following a real average team and if you watch objectively you'll see what really average players actually look like. You're players might not be as good as you want them to be, but they are certainly not as a crap as you make out.

 

[Ducklegs]

You should try following a real average team and if you watch objectively you'll see what really average players actually look like. You're players might not be as good as you want them to be, but they are certainly not as a crap as you make out.

It doest work like that.

Its why we havent come close to winning the league in 6 years.

 

[manunited1919]

Wow, where do I start?

For me it’s Sanchez and Lingard, just because I don’t see the potential in either of them to produce better results. Whenever they play they end up loosing the ball, misplacing passes, or making the wrong decisions. When they play they are key men in our attack, but they feck it up so badly that our whole forward line looks shit. Ole says Sanchez will score 20 goals, and of Lingard he says he was one of the best players because he presses. Forwards that don’t assist and don’t score, we need to get rid of them both.

Even Rojo and Darmian have a useful function: they warm up the bench and sit there patiently in case everyone in our defense gets injured, and then they plug a hole so we don’t need to have McT as backup CB. The only damage they cause our team is economic, they get paid handsomely for doing nothing. It’s not my money, and someone needs to get paid to be a bench warmer.

 

[The Boy]

It doest work like that.

Its why we havent come close to winning the league in 6 years.

It's exactly how it works "the majority of our players are absolute shite" was your quote. Shite players don't even make the premiership if they do they play at the likes of Huddersfield etc these are teams where the players are shite and even then there's a rough diamond or two.

Your players are not as good as you want them to be or think they should be, that's fine, you want to win the prem, this team are unlikely to do that, but they are not shite, that's pointless hyperbole and player bashing.

 

[haram]

I don't agree with everything but I don't think you have necessarily rated the players poorly.

 

[Foxbatt]

I agree with 1919. Rojo is not such a terrible player when played at the left side of CB. He is fairly quick, can tackle and can head the ball and also fairly comfortable on the ball as with most South Americans. He had a good spell too and then got injured. Anyone playing with Bailly is bound to be nervous and though they played well for a spell I would like to see him paired with Lindelof as Lindelof is better on the right and Rojo is better on the left.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Matic
Lingard
Darmian
Jones
Rojo
Sanchez
Lulaku
Fred
Lee Grant
Fosuh Mensah

In no particular all need to go.

Matic can go when his contracct expires next year, although I would have got rid of him this year. Really hoping Woody doesn't reward him with a new contract due to his experience,

Lingard gets commended for running all day which is the'minimum' requirement from a United player. His output of 4 league goals and assists was terrible for someone from his position approaching his prime, he had a half decent season 2 years ago and he seems to think he has made. That season was the point where I thought he was going to push on from nut this hasn't happened. Would sell now and give Gomes some minutes.

Darmian will probably go when his contract expires next year, although this was the year when I thought he was definitely going.

Not sure when Jones and Rojo should have gone this year due their appalling injury records but not sure when they are going to go due to their new contracts.

Sanchez, I would have liked to go this year. I would even try to come some type of offer where we leave selling club buy him for £1 and subsidise half his contract for a year just to get rid if him. Not sure if this could even be possible but is something I would like to do. His 1 league goal all year was embarrassing.
Fred can probably go next summer. He's had his time to settle needs a big season this year or he can go.

Don't even know why we bought Lee Grant. He could go for free today.

Due to Dalot and Wan Bissaka don't think Fosu-Menah is ever going to make it here as right back. Some people I have read have suggested he could play centre-back but we are stocked (albeit with mostly crap) there and as much as it pains me to see a youngster leave, he could leave today if he wants.

Lukaku has to go preferably this year as that spell he had last year going 2.5 months without a goal was embarrassing.

Most of these signings I would want gone this year but it too late in the window and would obviously be very hard to do this in one window but this is how I feel about our squad at the moment

 

[Mike Phelan's Former Tash]

Let's face it most if not all of this team looked sh*te under Mourinho. I refuse to believe that they're as talentless as most of the cafe seem to.

From the performances so far in preseason and the noises coming out of the club through interviews and press conferences, I'm quietly confident for the season ahead, despite what all the ABU's are saying.

It seems that Solskjaer has got into their heads, made demands and set expectations for each player and they're buying into it. Positive signs are there.

I know we finished 30+ points off the top last season but those points are not carried over to the new season so no one is behind city and Liverpool when the season kicks off.

I believe this will be the best season for excitement we've seen since Sir Alex retired.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Let's face it most if not all of this team looked sh*te under Mourinho. I refuse to believe that they're as talentless as most of the cafe seem to.

From the performances so far in preseason and the noises coming out of the club through interviews and press conferences, I'm quietly confident for the season ahead, despite what all the ABU's are saying.

It seems that Solskjaer has got into their heads, made demands and set expectations for each player and they're buying into it. Positive signs are there.

I know we finished 30+ points off the top last season but those points are not carried over to the new season so no one is behind city and Liverpool when the season kicks off.

I believe this will be the best season for excitement we've seen since Sir Alex retired.

Nice to see such a positive post on here. Full of optimism. I particularly like the point in bold

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Sometimes players look a lot worse than they are when you put them in a dysfunctional team, the same way you can have a couple of average players in a great team and still perform if they know how to do their job and understand their limitations.

Been banging that drum for years.

You get the team to gel properly, as a team, and then you can properly assess which players are definitely below the required standard.

Harping on about Mata or Lingard not being world beaters is pointless, we all know they aren't.

O'Shea and Phil Neville weren't world beaters either, and far less talented than Juan Mata.

The likes of Cleverley and Gibson worked, after a fashion, in a team that was not dysfunctional. They would have looked utterly abysmal in the post-SAF era, much worse than some of the players who are considered "absolute shite" at the moment.

Also, what's the point of advocating the immediate release of players who obviously won't be moved on until next season at the very earliest?

 

[Ibrahimorich]

One of the main problems with the squad is a huge amount of average or worse players. It may be Ok for a club which plans to fight relegation, but for Man Utd hoarding such players shall not be the way to go. Let's look at the squad by position.

The only thing you got right was Sanchezz. The rest was absolute shite

 

[jem]

Why is James' potential unknown?

 

[tenpoless]

Been banging that drum for years.

You get the team to gel properly, as a team, and then you can properly assess which players are definitely below the required standard.

Harping on about Mata or Lingard not being world beaters is pointless, we all know they aren't.

O'Shea and Phil Neville weren't world beaters either, and far less talented than Juan Mata.

The likes of Cleverley and Gibson worked, after a fashion, in a team that was not dysfunctional. They would have looked utterly abysmal in the post-SAF era, much worse than some of the players who are considered "absolute shite" at the moment.

Also, what's the point of advocating the immediate release of players who obviously won't be moved on until next season at the very earliest?

While I do agree with "Players look worse in a dysfunctional team", you forgot there's another important thing other than talent when it comes into building a team : Attitude.

Wes Brown was a very good player (granted, not a world beater). Better than Jones and Smalling I'd say but He didn't mind playing as RB and cover CB. Cleverley and Gibson didn't mind being a squad player. In several games They only got to play to replace tired players, under SAF.

Sure players complete the whole puzzle and the puzzle needs to be determined first. But it takes more than using them for their strength. If you have "average" players who cannot be arsed to do the manager's instructions, thinking of themselves as something bigger than They are, or shying away from tough situations out of fear then They become liabilities instead of advantages. And while I don't agree We should get rid of them all at the same time (after seeing how We struggle to bring players in), some have been here for ages that you get to know their attitude, their mentality.

Performances can be worked on training but attitude issues are much harder to handle. I just hope Ole is the right man to tackle this problem.

 

[SambaBoy]

Hopefully by the start of the 2020/2021 season - Jones, Matic, Rojo, Darmian, Young, Sanchez, Mata, Lukaku will all be gone. It's unrealistic now to sell them all this window as we can't replace them and we probably won't invest much in January so I can't see many of them leaving then.

Darmian shoud go this window and possibly Lukaku although talk seems to have died down and reports suggesting Inter are struggling to reach the valuation United want so he may stay.