19 children and 2 teachers killed in Texas school shooting (24 May 2022)

[Moby]

This can't be true, if it is there will be riots.

That's what seem to be the reports as of now. think there was a video of an officer saying that.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

You must be a huge fan of China as well (or will be in some time).

Who gives a feck if people cannot be safe in their schools or supermarkets, at least our billionaires are making more billions. That's what matters!

If you are in a sought after field, then there is no place better than the US. For everyday folk Europe is better but if you have got certain skills, USA is the place to be. I know two brothers, one works at Netflix in USA and the other helped in developing the Astrazeneca vaccine in the UK, guess which one is struggling to buy a house and which ones earns over half a million.

 

[Revan]

If you are in a sought after field, then there is no place better than the US. For everyday folk Europe is better but if you have got certain skills, USA is the place to be. I know two brothers, one works at Netflix in USA and the other helped in developing the Astrazeneca vaccine in the UK, guess which one is struggling to buy a house and which ones earns over half a million.

I wouldn't even agree with this. The median income in the US is quite larger that that of the European Union. In fact, the only EU country with a higher median income than the US, is Luxembourg. It has a population that is that of Santa Clara County, for example, and it does not do well in that regard compared to them.

 

[VorZakone]

I wouldn't even agree with this. The median income in the US is quite larger that that of the European Union. In fact, the only EU country with a higher median income than the US, is Luxembourg. It has a population that is that of Santa Clara County, for example, and it does not do well in that regard compared to them.

There's more to all this than just median income though.

 

[Revan]

You must be a huge fan of China as well (or will be in some time).

Who gives a feck if people cannot be safe in their schools or supermarkets, at least our billionaires are making more billions. That's what matters!

China is not rich yet, they are just big as feck.

 

[Revan]

There's more to all this than just median income though.

What about the unemployment rate then? 3.6% in the US, compared to 6.8% in the European Union (4.3% Germany, 7.3% France, and 9.1% Italy as the three biggest economies in the EU).

Honestly, we have been here and done that. Try to justify why there are more Europeans (from virtually every country) going to the US than vice versa if it was so much better here.

By most objective metrics (those that can be defined in numbers, not some useless NGO), the US leads.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

I wouldn't even agree with this. The median income in the US is quite larger that that of the European Union. In fact, the only EU country with a higher median income than the US, is Luxembourg. It has a population that is that of Santa Clara County, for example, and it does not do well in that regard compared to them.

Median salary being higher doesn't count for much if you consider, healthcare, schooling, no social safety nets, public infrastructure and competing against people with ridiculous salaries.

 

[adexkola]

I wouldn't even agree with this. The median income in the US is quite larger that that of the European Union. In fact, the only EU country with a higher median income than the US, is Luxembourg. It has a population that is that of Santa Clara County, for example, and it does not do well in that regard compared to them.

Now you know good and damned well using the median for what is an extremely non-normal, skewed distribution of income in the US is not cool (statistically)

 

[Revan]

Median salary being higher doesn't count for much if you consider, healthcare, schooling, no social safety nets, public infrastructure and competing against people with ridiculous salaries.

Healthcare? If you are at the bottom of the ladder, sure. For medium, the US is better. For high-income earners, it is not even a question. In Germany, you won't even get an appointment with a doctor before you naturally heal. Italy's healthcare is shit if you have a serious illness.

Schooling? No idea how it is in the pre-university level. At the university level, the US is far better, and that is why the brightest people from all over the world go there to study.

No social safety nets? I give you it there.

Public infrastructure? What is wrong with that in the US?

Competing against people with ridiculous salaries? Well, that is the only place where you can get a ridiculous salary in the first place.

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Oh, and when someone (see Ukraine) is in trouble, entire Europe is useless and all hopes lie in the US to do something.

 

[Moby]

If you are in a sought after field, then there is no place better than the US. For everyday folk Europe is better but if you have got certain skills, USA is the place to be. I know two brothers, one works at Netflix in USA and the other helped in developing the Astrazeneca vaccine in the UK, guess which one is struggling to buy a house and which ones earns over half a million.

It depends on a lot of factors. As a person of color I had the choice to live in EU/UK/US and it was a no brainer for me to go to EU and then UK. I would have still gone to US if I didn't have another choice because it's still much better than my country but if you have a choice of going anywhere I'd rather not be around absolute swathes of lunatics.

 

[Revan]

Now you know good and damned well using the median for what is an extremely non-normal, skewed distribution of income in the US is not cool (statistically)

Isn't that the entire point of using the median instead of the mean? For the outliers to not have any affect.

 

[MUW4Eva]

Probably because it is the richest country in Earth, home to the biggest companies, it is the forefront of the research (does more research than the rest of the world combined), the most technologically advanced country, has by far the best universities in the world, and by far the best hospitals. And a few other things that I forgot.

Surely South Korea or Japan are more technologically advanced as nation's??

 

[Moby]

China is not rich yet, they are just big as feck.

That's why I said in some time.

 

[Moby]

I wouldn't even agree with this. The median income in the US is quite larger that that of the European Union. In fact, the only EU country with a higher median income than the US, is Luxembourg. It has a population that is that of Santa Clara County, for example, and it does not do well in that regard compared to them.

You should go and work for the Saudis. More income is all that matters.

 

[adexkola]

Isn't that the entire point of using the median instead of the mean? For the outliers to not have any affect.

Yes but that doesn't mean the extremes cease to exist!

The US median is higher but that ignores the plight of those below or hovering around the median.

Foreigners don't move here to be in the median, they move here because they want to be in the top 10% of highly salaried professionals and are relatively underpaid elsewhere, but that's not the whole story

 

[Revan]

Surely South Korea or Japan are more technologically advanced as nation's??

They have better trains, but more technologically advanced?

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Healthcare? If you are at the bottom of the ladder, sure. For medium, the US is better. For high-income earners, it is not even a question. In Germany, you won't even get an appointment with a doctor before you naturally heal. Italy's healthcare is shit if you have a serious illness.

Schooling? No idea how it is in the pre-university level. At the university level, the US is far better, and that is why the brightest people from all over the world go there to study.

No social safety nets? I give you it there.

Public infrastructure? What is wrong with that in the US?

Competing against people with ridiculous salaries? Well, that is the only place where you can get a ridiculous salary in the first place.

------

Oh, and when someone (see Ukraine) is in trouble, entire Europe is useless and all hopes lie in the US to do something.

I am not arguing for people at the top. US is king there no doubt. But medium level people do have to worry about healthcare costs.

Schooling pre university is pretty much free in Europe. Heck my friends in University in Germany ten years back didn't pay a dime and got excellent jobs in the auto industry.

In US rail, walking or cycling infrastructure is non-existent in many places, which is very important for me, I am not a big fan of cars.

I am in electrical engineering, which isn't a sought after field. I won't be able to compete with people who work in tech in the US for houses, it doesn't really matter how hard I work, there isn't that level of money in it.

 

[Revan]

I am not arguing for people at the top. US is king there no doubt. But medium level people do have to worry about healthcare costs.

Schooling pre university is pretty much free in Europe. Heck my friends in University in Germany ten years back didn't pay a dime and got excellent jobs in the auto industry.

In US rail, walking or cycling infrastructure is non-existent in many places, which is very important for me, I am not a big fan of cars.

I am in electrical engineering, which isn't a sought after field. I won't be able to compete with people who work in tech in the US for houses, it doesn't really matter how hard I work, there isn't that level of money in it.

The universities in Germany are nowhere comparable with those in the US. For example, I work in the top technical university in Germany, and at best is comparable with US second-tier universities (Georgia Tech, Michigan etc) and even that is extremely hard to argue. The likes of MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, CMU in technical sciences are far ahead of European universities.

You probably earn more as an electrical engineer there than you would have done in Europe. It is like that for pretty much every profession. Sure, some Google guy is probably gonna get double/triple as much as you, but he would have earned double more than you in Europe too. Just that both of you would have earned less than half of what you earn in Europe. In Europe, for the most part, salaries are shit. I had friends from Italy who, after their master's degrees were joining companies and earning 1400-1600EUR net. My brother works in a bank for more than 10 years and earns 2000EUR/month after taxes. It is a bit better in some other EU countries, but it does not reach the US level.

Unless you are planning to live on social security, you will be better financially (in average) in the US

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Anyway, this has digressed a lot already. Just that tired that when anything stupid happens in the US, it is the US that is medieval. While we spent the rest of the day using the US technology, studying books written in the US, dreaming to get jobs in US companies, talking about US politics, playing US-made games, watching US movies, TW shows, and sports, and listening to the US music.

 

[diarm]

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Anyway, this has digressed a lot already. Just that tired that when anything stupid happens in the US, it is the US that is medieval. While we spent the rest of the day using the US technology, studying books written in the US, dreaming to get jobs in US companies, talking about US politics, playing US-made games, watching US movies, TW shows, and sports, and listening to the US music.

The US is medieval. There is no number of universities, iphones or movies you can come up with that outweighs not being able to send your 7 year old to school without worrying that she's going to be murdered.

 

[Moby]

You probably earn more as an electrical engineer there than you would have done in Europe. It is like that for pretty much every profession. Sure, some Google guy is probably gonna get double/triple as much as you, but he would have earned double more than you in Europe too. Just that both of you would have earned less than half of what you earn in Europe. In Europe, for the most part, salaries are shit. I had friends from Italy who, after their master's degrees were joining companies and earning 1400-1600EUR net. My brother works in a bank for more than 10 years and earns 2000EUR/month after taxes. It is a bit better in some other EU countries, but it does not reach the US level.

He was literally mentioning about how cost of living and housing rates are inflated to make it affordable for the higher earners in US which would usually be in tech, meanwhile in places like EU or UK there isn't that much disparity even if what he is earning in EU is less than US, he has more chances of affording a home in EU which is absolute spot on. He is not going to earn in US and buy a home in EU.

 

[Moby]

The US is medieval. There is no number of universities, iphones or movies you can come up with that outweighs not being able to send your 7 year old to school without worrying that she's going to be murdered.

One for the hypernormalisation thread.

In some time you won't be able to get an abortion in the US and could have to find an illegal center in case you happened to get an unplanned pregnancy hence risking your life for a basic procedure but hey, US has more tech patents so fecking deal with it!

 

[Revan]

The US is medieval. There is no number of universities, iphones or movies you can come up with that outweighs not being able to send your 7 year old to school without worrying that she's going to be murdered.

Statistically, it is extremely unlikely that your kid is gonna get murdered by a mass shooting. In 12 years, between 2009 and 2021, there were 1363 people killed in mass shootings in the US, for an average of 113 people per year. The chances of dying from mass shootings each year are 0.00003%, or 500 times lower than from flu.

Mass shootings (like terrorism) attacks are tragic events that hit people hard, and people rightly get very sad when they see kids dying for no reason at all. But they do not affect the everyday life, and statistically are insignificant when you are talking at the state level.

Sent from my iPhone.

 

[Revan]

He was literally mentioning about how cost of living and housing rates are inflated to make it affordable for the higher earners in US which would usually be in tech, meanwhile in places like EU or UK there isn't that much disparity even if what he is earning in EU is less than US, he has more chances of affording a home in EU which is absolute spot on. He is not going to earn in US and buy a home in EU.

Yet the US has a higher purchasing power per capita than all but a few microstates in Europe (and the richest regions of the US are higher than those microstates).

My point is, economically people are far better in the US than in Europe. And Europe is still dependable on the US when it comes to defense.

 

[Moby]

Yet the US has a higher purchasing power per capita than all but a few microstates in Europe (and the richest regions of the US are higher than those microstates).

My point is, economically people are far better in the US than in Europe. And Europe is still dependable on the US when it comes to defense.

How about you come up with the exact purchasing power of the person who is talking to you based on their profession as to where they currently are where they plan to live in the US?

And why would an average person give a feck about EU depending on US for defense? How does that impact their lives?

 

[Revan]

My understanding from the anti-US threads (essentially every thread in current events:

1) Most Americans who think that the Europe is better have never lived in Europe.
2) Most Europeans who think that the Europe is better have never lived in the US.

 

[Moby]

Statistically, it is extremely unlikely that your kid is gonna get murdered by a mass shooting. In 12 years, between 2009 and 2021, there were 1363 people killed in mass shootings in the US, for an average of 113 people per year. The chances of dying from mass shootings each year are 0.00003%, or 500 times lower than from flu.

Mass shootings (like terrorism) attacks are tragic events that hit people hard, and people rightly get very sad when they see kids dying for no reason at all. But they do not affect the everyday life, and statistically are insignificant when you are talking at the state level.

Sent from my iPhone.

Yet due to the same number of incidents there are metal detectors at schools. Teachers in the US in this thread have detailed on how they have to routinely take their students through drills in an incident of a shooter. Every school has one or multiple policeman that has to guard them in an incident of a shooter. Given the way things are going, every teacher is going to start carrying guns to defend themselves and the kids. Kids from the youngest of ages are constantly having to worry about getting attacked by a shooter, which for anyone's mental health is an unimaginable amount of stress and burden especially from a young age.

It has to take a massively cnutish amount of insensitivity or absolute separation from reality and what someone who is actually living through it goes through mentally. So I am not really surprised by that post.

 

[Revan]

How about you come up with the exact purchasing power of the person who is talking to you based on their profession as to where they currently are where they plan to live in the US?

And why would an average person give a feck about EU depending on US for defense? How does that impact their lives?

See Ukraine. Then imagine your country (if you are not the UK) being Ukraine.

 

[Carolina Red]

Statistically, it is extremely unlikely that your kid is gonna get murdered by a mass shooting.

I had a colleague make that exact same argument yesterday. Almost word for word.

I told them to put that in a condolence card and send it to Uvalde so their families can take solace in the fact that it was statistically unlikely that this would happen.

 

[Moby]

See Ukraine. Then imagine your country (if you are not the UK) being Ukraine.

In what world is what happening in Ukraine likely happen in Western Europe? Stick to what is actually being discussed or take your hypotheticals elsewhere.

 

[Moby]

I had a colleague make that exact same argument yesterday. Almost word for word.

I told them to put that in a condolence card and send it to Uvalde so their families can take solace in the fact that it was statistically unlikely that this would happen.

I haven't reported that post myself but it is genuinely an utterly shameless post.

Proof that you can earn PhDs yet not have an iota of common sense.

 

[Solius]

It's exasperating seeing these Republican cnuts suggesting everything other than guns being the problem.

fecking scum. Someone went into a primary school and slaughtered children and they accuse others of making it political. Honestly I wish them nothing but misery and pain in their lives.

 

[HTG]

I had a colleague make that exact same argument yesterday. Almost word for word.

I told them to put that in a condolence card and send it to Uvalde so their families can take solace in the fact that it was statistically unlikely that this would happen.

They could also explain to the parents how great the universities in the US are, that their dead children can’t go to. Must really help with all the grief.

 

[calodo2003]

That's what seem to be the reports as of now. think there was a video of an officer saying that.

There is.

 

[Solius]

Statistically, it is extremely unlikely that your kid is gonna get murdered by a mass shooting. In 12 years, between 2009 and 2021, there were 1363 people killed in mass shootings in the US, for an average of 113 people per year. The chances of dying from mass shootings each year are 0.00003%, or 500 times lower than from flu.

Mass shootings (like terrorism) attacks are tragic events that hit people hard, and people rightly get very sad when they see kids dying for no reason at all. But they do not affect the everyday life, and statistically are insignificant when you are talking at the state level.

Sent from my iPhone.

Cool I guess the kids just need to do some math and learn not to worry then.

 

[Revan]

Yet due to the same number of incidents there are metal detectors at schools. Teachers in the US in this thread have detailed on how they have to routinely take their students through drills in an incident of a shooter. Every school has one or multiple policeman that has to guard them in an incident of a shooter. Given the way things are going, every teacher is going to start carrying guns to defend themselves and the kids. Kids from the youngest of ages are constantly having to worry about getting attacked by a shooter, which for anyone's mental health is an unimaginable amount of stress and burden especially from a young age.

It has to take a massively cnutish amount of insensitivity or absolute separation from reality and what someone who is actually living through it goes through mentally. So I am not really surprised by that post.

Because of the overblown media proportion these events get. If Lisa dies from flu, it is not sexy to talk about that on TV. Just something of nature, probably preventable, but something you get used to it. If Lisa dies in a mass shooting, then she has a name and a face, and it is tragic. It is also completely preventable by applying gun measures, which the US for pretty much no rational reasons has decided to not apply.

But in the grand scheme of things, there are very few kids who die from mass shootings (and very few people in general). There were around 1300 people who dies in mass shootings from 2009 to 2021. That is less than how many died from covid in 8 hours during the peak of the pandemic. Yesterday there were more deaths by covid in the US, then the combined number of deaths from mass shootings during the last year.

It is tragic for people (and their families/friends) who die in mass shootings, and obviously, it should be prevented. But statistically, it is also completely insignificant.

 

[calodo2003]

Imagine being in fourth grade & having the wherewithal to do this…

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[HTG]

Because of the overblown media proportion these events get. If Lisa dies from flu, it is not sexy to talk about that on TV. Just something of nature, probably preventable, but something you get used to it. If Lisa dies in a mass shooting, then she has a name and a face, and it is tragic. It is also completely preventable by applying gun measures, which the US for pretty much no rational reasons has decided to not apply.

But in the grand scheme of things, there are very few kids who die from mass shootings (and very few people in general). There were around 1300 people who dies in mass shootings from 2009 to 2021. That is less than how many died from covid in 8 hours during the peak of the pandemic. Yesterday there were more deaths by covid in the US, then the combined number of deaths from mass shootings during the last year.

It is tragic for people (and their families/friends) who die in mass shootings, and obviously, it should be prevented. But statistically, it is also completely insignificant.

You disgust me.

 

[Moby]

Because of the overblown media proportion these events get.

Not gonna bother beyond that. Anyone who thinks a mass shooting in a school that killed 19 kids is getting 'overblown media attention' is a subhuman scum.

 

[calodo2003]

Because of the overblown media proportion these events get. If Lisa dies from flu, it is not sexy to talk about that on TV. Just something of nature, probably preventable, but something you get used to it. If Lisa dies in a mass shooting, then she has a name and a face, and it is tragic. It is also completely preventable by applying gun measures, which the US for pretty much no rational reasons has decided to not apply.

But in the grand scheme of things, there are very few kids who die from mass shootings (and very few people in general). There were around 1300 people who dies in mass shootings from 2009 to 2021. That is less than how many died from covid in 8 hours during the peak of the pandemic. Yesterday there were more deaths by covid in the US, then the combined number of deaths from mass shootings during the last year.

It is tragic for people (and their families/friends) who die in mass shootings, and obviously, it should be prevented. But statistically, it is also completely insignificant.

Bless your heart.

 

[Revan]

I had a colleague make that exact same argument yesterday. Almost word for word.

I told them to put that in a condolence card and send it to Uvalde so their families can take solace in the fact that it was statistically unlikely that this would happen.

Cool I guess the kids just need to do some math and learn not to worry then.

Not really. What should happen is gun laws that prevent people (especially kids) from dying.

But again, my point is that dying in mass shootings is extremely unlikely. It is like dying from terrorism in the West 2 decades ago, where people got scared, but chances of that happening were low. Or from bus bombing in Israel during the eighties.

'Thinking Fast and Slow' by Daniel Kakneman discusses in details this topic.