1993/94 double team

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by stubie, Nov 5, 2019.

  1. Nov 5, 2019
    #1

    stubie Full Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,155
    Location:
    UK
    Had the foreigner rule not applied back in the early 90’s would that great side of 1993/94 won the Champions League or come close that season?

    Obviously there were some brilliant sides back then such as Barcelona and Milan but that United team was special.
  2. Nov 5, 2019
    #2

    McGrathsipan Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    13,583
    The foreigner rule is a mad concept. 25 years later and it's now the home grown player rule.
  3. Nov 5, 2019
    #3

    JohnnyKills Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Messages:
    5,039
    Don't think so. Even with the foreigners we were nowhere near as good as the teams you mention. It's hard to over-emphasise just how dominant Serie A was back then.
  4. Nov 6, 2019
    #4

    Amir Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2000
    Messages:
    22,173
    Location:
    Rehovot, Israel
    We had great qualities but I don't think we were good all-around as the best sides back then and were probably lacking in the sort of tactics and discipline that were inherent in the european sides but not in England.
  5. Nov 6, 2019
    #5

    Cockney Phil Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2018
    Messages:
    522
    Location:
    London
    It was a problem rule because suddenly Irish and Scots players were all foreigners, which cut into the squad’s traditional demographics. I recall Fergie attacked the rule at every opportunity. It was not the reason why we failed in Europe - there were some incredible games against great teams and players.
  6. Nov 6, 2019
    #6

    Deglobalise Football New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2019
    Messages:
    30
    Supports:
    Harlepool United
    I loved that foreigner rule. They should really, really bring it back so other domestic leagues stand a chance to actually flourish like they did before globalisation ruined the game.
  7. Nov 6, 2019
    #7

    davidmichael Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,481
    Schmeichel, Parker, Pallister, Bruce, Irwin, Kanchelskis, Keane, Ince, Giggs, Cantona, Hughes. You look at that team and having to pick only three non English players it’s easy to see how much that hurt us back then.

    I’ve always believed we’d have won at least one Champions League with that team as it had literally everything, I think the only two teams that were arguably better were Barca and AC Milan although I think that Barca team peaked in 1992 so with our best team available I’d have fancied us to beat them.
  8. Nov 6, 2019
    #8

    sun_tzu The Art of Bore

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    13,903
    Location:
    Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance.
    had the foreigner rule not applied in 93/94 teams like Milan would probably have brought another 3 or 4 world class players - there was so much more money in the Italian Game at the time I dont think we would have come close to competing
  9. Nov 6, 2019
    #9

    clarkydaz Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    8,992
    Location:
    manchester
    My favourite ever united team
  10. Nov 6, 2019
    #10

    André Dominguez Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Messages:
    2,627
    Location:
    Lisbon
    Supports:
    Benfica, Académica
    Hard not to agree. With the max 3 foreign player in starting 11 rule would guarantee that talent would be more spread all over the world.

    La Liga still kind of uses it, as you can only have a max of 3 non-EU players on the pitch simultaneously and I think there's a max 5 non-EU players in the roster rules.
  11. Nov 6, 2019
    #11

    Gio ★★★★★★★★

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    16,332
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    Supports:
    Rangers
    I think there was a gulf between United and Barcelona/Milan that year, as shown by the head-to-head with Barcelona. They too had to wrestle with the rule with Koeman, Laudrup, Romario and Stoichkov on the books. The mismatch wasn't purely about quality because that United side had a lot going for it, but also about wily experience and game management that Milan were streets ahead of everyone else in at that time.
  12. Nov 6, 2019
    #12

    Chipper Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,954
    From my time playing Football Manager that sounds about right. There are some easy workarounds too.

    Players from countries who signed the Cotonou Agreement also count as EU. That's pretty much all of the Caribbean, sub-Saharan Africa and some minor Pacific nations.

    All South and Central American players (Ibero American) can get fast-tracked Spanish passports after two years as well. On top of other obvious reasons it's another reason why South Americans move to Spain often. Sign them up at 18 (no special work permit requirements like in the Premier League) - play them if ready, move them to your B team if you have the space or loan them to another Spanish side for 2 years if not and at 20 they're a Spanish citizen if they apply.

    Edit: Then there's stuff like Coutinho being able to get a Portuguese passport when he moved to Barcelona because of his wife. Suarez was able to become Italian as well.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  13. Nov 7, 2019
    #13

    AKDevil Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,752
    Location:
    London, England
    Loved this team. Probably my favourite United team. The amount of times I’ve watched this season review haha!
  14. Nov 7, 2019
    #14

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    30,535
    Location:
    Reykjavík
    You say that as a Portuguese. The foreigner rule is massively unbalanced. It favors countries where people already have dual passports or have an easier time getting a 2nd nationality. Not every country even allows dual citizenship.
  15. Nov 7, 2019
    #15

    Stobzilla Official Team Perv

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    18,551
    Location:
    Grove Street, home.
    If obviously Scottish, Irish, Welsh didn't count as foreign, but the rule still being in place then we would have been able to field:

    Big Pete

    Parker
    Pallister
    Bruce
    Irwin

    Kanchelskis
    Keane
    Ince
    Giggs

    Cantona
    Hughes

    Who wouldn't have gotten spanked 4-0 in the Nou Camp at the very least. Probably would have done the business in Galatasary and Gothenburg and gotten us one of the "best second place" spots. After that, who knows. It wasn't so much the foreign rule, just the application of it.
  16. Nov 7, 2019
    #16

    markhughes New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2016
    Messages:
    104
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    We had a great team back then which was built to win in a very physical and fast league. Fergie hadn't figured out Europe at that point and our style didnt translate to European football.

    Once we learned to control games and play at a slower pace with a packed midfield we started to have more success in Europe, at least that is how I remember it with my old brain.
  17. Nov 7, 2019
    #17

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,823
    Location:
    Under the bright neon lights of sincity
    The foreigner rule really hampers teams.

    Milan can only field their Dutch Trio, stupid rule
  18. Nov 7, 2019
    #18

    André Dominguez Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Messages:
    2,627
    Location:
    Lisbon
    Supports:
    Benfica, Académica
    It didn't favor Brazilians back then. They had to do fake marriages to contour the rule.
    We just have different working visa rules now. You basically just need a minimum 1 year term contract or to acquire a gold visa to work and live here.
  19. Nov 7, 2019
    #19

    André Dominguez Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Messages:
    2,627
    Location:
    Lisbon
    Supports:
    Benfica, Académica
    The same in PT, that if you're from a PALOP country member, easier to get passport.
    The special work permit has also to do with working visas. For example, if the UK has lack of nurses, working visas will not be a problem if you come from a country where your graduation is recognized.
  20. Nov 7, 2019
    #20

    harms Shining Star of Paektu Mountain Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    18,556
    Location:
    Moscow
    Barca and AC Milan were better, but then CL is not won by the best team every year.
  21. Nov 7, 2019
    #21

    11101 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    9,780
    The Milan team in 1994:

    Rossi
    Tassoti - Costacurta - Baresi - Maldini
    Donadoni - Albertini - Desailly - Savicevic
    Simone (or an ailing Van Basten) - Massaro

    They embarrassed Barcelona in the CL final with half their team out injured or suspended. We had a great team in 1994 but we were never beating that.
  22. Nov 7, 2019
    #22

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    30,535
    Location:
    Reykjavík
    I am talking about it being unbalanced now since you said that you'd like the rule back.
  23. Nov 7, 2019
    #23

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    26,753
    Ah that 93/94 team, my absolute favourite United team.

    Proper old fashioned 4-4-2, where midfielders can actually do it all, before all this "holding" midfielder, and 3 in midfield sh!te kicked in.

    Two pacy exciting wingers, playing on their proper side to cross it, unlike this "Inverted" winger bullcrap.

    More importantly, two proper strikers, so crosses actually had more chance of being effective too.

    But what a team, hard as nails down the centre, loads of "captains" in there. Robbo as backup.
    Sharpey backing up the wingers.

    Superb times.

    Although the "surprising" stat is that the famous 11 of the lineup only actually started a mere handful of games together!
  24. Nov 7, 2019
    #24

    Class of 63 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2017
    Messages:
    5,822
    Location:
    At the RedCafe eating Sugar Puffs, where else?
    Eight of that those would walk into the current team, happy dayz
  25. Nov 7, 2019
    #25

    FujiVice Full Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2013
    Messages:
    5,580
    Most entertaining United side ever for me. Sadly, though, that team was a great side, but McClair, Hughes, Bruce and Parker were coming to the end of their careers, there wasnt much depth to play the 60-odd games we'd have to play in all competitions during that era. Also, Fergie wasnt quite as slick with the different styles that would come to Old Trafford in the European Cup back then. We always used to run into trouble.

    In 94-95, I doubt we'd have gone on to win it for the reasons mentioned, but if Cantona wasnt banned for 4/5 matches, Giggs was fit and we didnt have to pick and choose due to that dumb rule, we'd have certainly got through to the knockouts.
  26. Nov 7, 2019
    #26

    Amir Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2000
    Messages:
    22,173
    Location:
    Rehovot, Israel
    I don't remember exactly how it worked, but it was possible to use more than three foreign players under the assimilated players rule. In that 4-0, for instance, Cantona was out and we chose not to use Schmeichel, but we had Irwin, Kanchelskis, Keane, Hughes and Giggs. In Sweden we had Irwin, Cantona, Kanchelskis, Hughes and McClair.

    The foreign rule did hamper us, of course, but a little less than we remember.
  27. Nov 7, 2019
    #27

    Bobski Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2017
    Messages:
    3,287
    Utd were not good enough defensively at that point to win it. Bruce especially was a major problem with how slow he was, made Maguire look like Bolt.
  28. Nov 7, 2019
    #28

    Sparky_Hughes Donkey Buggering Tyrant who cheats at Monopoly

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    12,133
    11 would.
  29. Nov 7, 2019
    #29

    Class of 63 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2017
    Messages:
    5,822
    Location:
    At the RedCafe eating Sugar Puffs, where else?
    Yeah it was 3+2 at the time, it gave some wiggle-room but....

    And it was partially United's fault, if we hadn't won the CWC in 91 the powers that be(most didn't want English clubs back in European competitions so soon after Heysel) wouldn't have been so eager to push the ruling through.
  30. Nov 7, 2019
    #30

    Class of 63 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2017
    Messages:
    5,822
    Location:
    At the RedCafe eating Sugar Puffs, where else?
    Nah, don't think Parks, or Dolly and Daisy would.
  31. Nov 7, 2019
    #31

    Josh 76 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,225
    This team was so good, they even made a song about it.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  32. Nov 7, 2019
    #32

    Sparky_Hughes Donkey Buggering Tyrant who cheats at Monopoly

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    12,133
    Maybe not on pure talent, but on heart, will to win and leadership they would for me
  33. Nov 7, 2019
    #33

    Amir Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2000
    Messages:
    22,173
    Location:
    Rehovot, Israel
    True. And it was enough of a problem that Fergie moved Parker to centerhalf instead of Bruce to try and handle Romario in that 2-2 in 1994/95. Didn't quite work out...
  34. Nov 7, 2019
    #34

    Class of 63 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2017
    Messages:
    5,822
    Location:
    At the RedCafe eating Sugar Puffs, where else?
    Fair enough.
  35. Nov 7, 2019
    #35

    PickledRed Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    5,027
    Post-ban, English teams were broadly out of their depth in Europe for several years with the occasional high point. Not just Italian and Spanish teams were difficult, Scandinavia produced strong sides as well as the French. United were competitive but not really at the races for the best part of the 90s.
  36. Nov 7, 2019
    #36

    Andycoleno9 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    8,547
    Location:
    Croatia
    :drool::drool:
  37. Nov 8, 2019 at 07:02
    #37

    Robertd0803 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,695
    The 2 Champions Lesgue winning teams we had took a few years to figure out Europe, at the time the likes of Milan were miles ahead of game management.

    But yeah that limit on foreign players was stupid anyway.
  38. Nov 8, 2019 at 08:18
    #38

    Deglobalise Football New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2019
    Messages:
    30
    Supports:
    Harlepool United
    So what? The other foreign players can either find a spot for foreign players on another team, or they can go back to their home country and help build and popularise the domestic game there.

    Clubs can't stockpile foreign talent any more. Boo-hoo. Enhance your own domestic talents, or buy them.
  39. Nov 8, 2019 at 12:53
    #39

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,823
    Location:
    Under the bright neon lights of sincity
    Forgot your meds pop?
  40. Nov 8, 2019 at 13:00
    #40

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    17,657
    It's funny his username is deglobalise football.