No coincidence imo.
2017 Pre Season | Barcelona vs Manchester United
- Thread starter Invictus
- Start date
It's incredible how much more enjoyable games are when you don't visit the gamethreads during the game, I swear. I've popped up like twice today without even reading what people write and the game was very entertaining, the first half that is, the second one was gash but I genuinely couldn't care less.
It's the way to go next season to spare your nerves imo.
I never go near the thread during games. Literally a lunatic asylum. Sometimes pop in after to gauge the temperature. Always regret it.
Played decently in the first half not so much in the second but still its preseason and fitness and flow are more imporant then just results.
The kit we wore was horrible though and this game was hard to watch due to the kits.
The kit we wore was horrible though and this game was hard to watch due to the kits.
We need Bale !
haha so true !
I never go into the thread on match day except at half time. If fellaini or lingard or playing I will probably never go in as it is two one dimensional. If fellaini or Lingard aren't playing then they are a bit more bearable, usually van gaal is blamed or else the team is praised for a plucky performance in light of x player being injured (can be literally anyone, from zlatan to shaw, was even rooney once)
Oh yes, let's forget that you had the best midfield of the modern era in Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta (all of them in their prime).
Agree to a large extent on the philosophy stuff. People on here point to Spurs as if we should be following their lead, getting more out of half decent players (although they still have a decent amount of positions with better players). We should be following Barca's lead by having a team full of players worth a bomb because of just how good they are, and get them playing well together.
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Just finished this game and obviously it was a friendly, but the gulf in class was very clear for anyone to see. It put me in mind of the old 'Harlem Globetrotters' exhibitions in the first half. Pogba, Bailly (mostly) and Rashford (to an extent) aside, our players looked like clumsy oafs chasing professional players.
If we continue to play Fellaini and Carrick in midfield then we will be lucky to finish in the top 5, for me it is important we get a decent CDM which then allows Pogba and Herrera to concentrate in the right areas without having to do too much of the defence work.
Also, we desperately need a winger that can not only get pass a defender but put in decent crosses for Lukaku, someone like Perisic would be perfect.
Also, we desperately need a winger that can not only get pass a defender but put in decent crosses for Lukaku, someone like Perisic would be perfect.
Maybe I should what? Be worried about Barca without MSN? Thats unnecessary because at least 2 of those three will still be there next season and would beat the snot out of us if we face them in the CL.
Does anyone know if the squad will return to Manchester or go directly to Sweden from their base in LA?
No , About Philosophies.
I often feel we lack supporting runs and inter link up play in the final third. We have to shoot from long distances and depend on individual quality of the player and the finish.
United has a clear club philosophy which is supposed to be based on youth, winning and entertaining. We dont have a football philosophy as such, under Mourinho its like "win, else dont lose" is our philosophy. Under LVG it was keep the ball but dont do anything else with it.
Barca have a consistent club philosophy based on which they bring in managers to implement this way of playing. Thats just one way of doing it and while it brought them success it may not work for United.
What I gather from this thread: Any and all criticism is strictly illegal because "it was a pre-season game" and it doesn't matter how underwhelming we're looking.
I'm going to say though that we're looking like last season, which I guess is not surprising.
I'm going to say though that we're looking like last season, which I guess is not surprising.
@prtk0811
It's not his rigidity. They guy views the possession as the target itself. He wants the keep the ball as much as possible to prevent the opponent from getting. I'm struggling to understand the hard thing in teaching this to a group of professionals to call it "principles". Do you mean our players couldn't pass or build the attack before LVG learned them?
If LVG philosophy stops at teaching basic principles he's a crap coach, simple as that.
The rest of what I say next is analysis of LVG system which I hardly disagree with but it contradicts all your talks about principles he put except if you believe sideways are principles to build on!
Renewal of a team is done gradually. You need to leave a certain core in the team then start replacing them step by step in order not to disturb the link between players and to keep good old players who can support the newcomers, then you should target highly talent players or proven ones to replace the old pieces. All this should be done gradually in a number of years. SAF had been the best manager I have ever seen in this regard. He was moving the team from a generation to the next smoothly and brilliantly.
What LVG was to sell all the team in 2 years, then bring a group of mediocre players to replace them, then he gives excuses of doing this to give chances youth, ha !
LVG has destroyed the squad, not built anything. The squad he left was bang average whose only ambition is to challenge for a top 4 spot.
LVG was the one who invented Fellaini as a striker so he wasn't even stick that much to these claimed principles.
Entering the age of money when each superstar costs at least 80m each club will find it much harder to replace their superstars when leaving. The transmission from this generation to the next one won't be as simple with the money asked for each player and no one is forced to pay.
Barca has great attack but they have been loading the rest of the team with mediocre players depending on MSN. When Messi and Suarez are done, they will find big trouble with all the average players in the squad with no goal scoring machine upfront. With their strategies Barca future isn't actually that pretty. That's an example.
If that's what is considered a platform then I don't want it.
You give too much importance to some basic principles any assistant coach can teach.
I'll have to go now so I mayn't replay on the next post immediately. Have your time.
LVG doesn't really have any brilliant ideas to be restricted by his rigidity. Passing backwards and sideways is something any coach can teach to any group of players. The brilliance is to convert them to a fluid attacking system that cut teams and score, something you yourself admitted he lacked so what's the brilliance idea in applying basic ideas learned by footballers in the academy ?
It's not his rigidity. They guy views the possession as the target itself. He wants the keep the ball as much as possible to prevent the opponent from getting. I'm struggling to understand the hard thing in teaching this to a group of professionals to call it "principles". Do you mean our players couldn't pass or build the attack before LVG learned them?
If LVG philosophy stops at teaching basic principles he's a crap coach, simple as that.
If he lacked all these in his claimed philosophy what was he doing then ? No penetration and no mobility = no attack. You're proving my ideas with this paragraph.
And again that's what I said. The guy is a highly defensive manager but instead of defending by parking the bus he defends by keeping possession of the ball to prevent the opponent from attacking. That's even worse than parking the bus, at least the later gives you chance to counter but in this terrible system you're just controlling the ball. You're not attacking and at the same time you hardly pull the opposition defenders away from their place to counter, resulting in what we were seeing. That's the worst football I have seen in my life.
The rest of what I say next is analysis of LVG system which I hardly disagree with but it contradicts all your talks about principles he put except if you believe sideways are principles to build on!
Built a platform ? He destroyed the team and left in a mess for the next manager to solve. The way he renewed the team was mess in its finest. He got rid of the whole core of the team he got, sold more than 30 players in 2 seasons and added 9 players to the squad. That result is an empty squad lacking depth and quality in almost all positions except GK. Failing to challenge for the title all the rest isn't a surprised. It's because of the stupid way this squad had been built.
Renewal of a team is done gradually. You need to leave a certain core in the team then start replacing them step by step in order not to disturb the link between players and to keep good old players who can support the newcomers, then you should target highly talent players or proven ones to replace the old pieces. All this should be done gradually in a number of years. SAF had been the best manager I have ever seen in this regard. He was moving the team from a generation to the next smoothly and brilliantly.
What LVG was to sell all the team in 2 years, then bring a group of mediocre players to replace them, then he gives excuses of doing this to give chances youth, ha !
LVG has destroyed the squad, not built anything. The squad he left was bang average whose only ambition is to challenge for a top 4 spot.
That's hardly an achievement. WHU had a great record against big teams in LVG second season as well. We're not a small team to have all our ambitions in defeating big teams while we kept losing against all other crap ones. SAF lost twice against Liverpool in 2008/2009 but won the title and we mocked Liverpool fans for celebrating the win while we were celebrating the title.
And he's still as well plan b only so ?
LVG was the one who invented Fellaini as a striker so he wasn't even stick that much to these claimed principles.
No money can replace players like Ronaldo or Messi. It's not like these players grew on the tree, and their insane goal record is somewhat unprecedentedly occur in football and won't be followed.
Entering the age of money when each superstar costs at least 80m each club will find it much harder to replace their superstars when leaving. The transmission from this generation to the next one won't be as simple with the money asked for each player and no one is forced to pay.
Barca has great attack but they have been loading the rest of the team with mediocre players depending on MSN. When Messi and Suarez are done, they will find big trouble with all the average players in the squad with no goal scoring machine upfront. With their strategies Barca future isn't actually that pretty. That's an example.
The last 4 CLs have been won by only 2 teams. This point proves nothing tbh. I won't deny LVG put good foundations in Bayern but definitely not here.
Again after you criticized all his system up top you say he built a platform ? A platform of an average squad lacking depth and quality full of mediocre and overrated players whose only ambition is top 4 and all his tactics was to keep the possession and pass backwards and sideways all the game ?!
If that's what is considered a platform then I don't want it.
You give too much importance to some basic principles any assistant coach can teach.
I don't disagree but the problem starts when this becomes your main tactic and you start doing it aimlessly, and again I don't think a group of professionals need w coach to teach them that.
Fact is the word " philosophy " can be applied to any manager. Any manager has his own philosophy of how to play the game. It's not restricted to possession football.
I'll have to go now so I mayn't replay on the next post immediately. Have your time.
Somebody needs to tell these people that we beat Barca 3-1 a few summers ago and we ended up finishing that season in 5th place. It really irritates me how much people take pre-season results so seriously. Modern day football eh.
Wonder if there is an Olympics of crap posts?
The thing is most of us remember how amazing we looked in the two pre-season tours we played under LvG. We had convincing wins over Madrid, Liverpool, Barca etc and them two seasons weren't exactly great, were they? People using pre-season performances as an indication on how we're going to do this season are way off the mark.
Well it depends on who you replace the players with, Pedro and especially David Villa are top players but if you have Bojan and Deulofeu playing there suddenly the philosophy isnt so frightening isnt it? A club philosophy, team strategy and match tactics are all super important and you need the right players to implement it. And one you have the GOAT plus two of the top 10 players in the world you'll scare the shit out of any team.
On a more positive note, that game reminded me how much I hate Luis Suarez.
We beat Madrid - We are going to do the treble
We lose to Barcelona - We are going to get Relegated.
We lose to Barcelona - We are going to get Relegated.
Only saw the first half. First 25 mins were pretty positive and very even, some inventive attacking play from us and good ball movement, only let down by some rushed final balls and maybe a sub-par finish or two. Could easily have been one up.
After that Barcelona dominated the half, midfield was bypassed, not the sort of game Carrick should be in imo.
Pogba, Blind, Jesse, Rashford, De Gea best players on our side.
Was the second half any good and did Martial look good?
After that Barcelona dominated the half, midfield was bypassed, not the sort of game Carrick should be in imo.
Pogba, Blind, Jesse, Rashford, De Gea best players on our side.
Was the second half any good and did Martial look good?
It's a bit disingenuous for people to keep pretending that anyone feeling pessimistic is in anyway being influenced by results.
Not bothered by results in pre-season. Especially after we beat barca with lvg and then had my hopes up only to watch the most boring stuff ever and struggle in the league. I like the way players have built some chemistry this pre-season, need 2 more mature in there prime players and we can challenge for the league, especially after looking at city and chelseas squad.
True, but we're more or less always going to have top players starting in attacking positions. No matter if some other teams have the same players, they won't be able to play like Barca. Because the cultural element, the philosophy, are not the same.
Any positives to take from our game last night?
BLIND >?????? Are you serious. He was the best passer in the side....for Barcelona. he gave the ball away every time he got it. Their goal was from yet another Blind misplaced pass. We desperately need a quality left back. Hopefully it will be Shaw because he is twice as quick as Blind...or Damian, for that matter. Otherwise, we have to get in the market for a left back. And pray to God, Herrera's injury is short term. I would play perira in fronnt of Fellaini every time. He's quicker, sees a better pass and doesnt give away constant ridiculous fouls
You need a couple of years more to add enough quality, gel as a team and make experience at higher levels. It is a bit like catching ropes if you see Atletico and Juventus as attainable targets already, they were not built in a day and their 2 CL recent finals put them right below Madrid, Barca and Bayern in the general consensus, while you are in the 10-15 bracket. That is to say both start with the QF as realistic target, while your main goal this year is passing the group stage and fight for the PL.
Hard to disagree with this. I fancy our chances of beating any of these sides in a cup tie, but in terms of consistency, we'll likely need another couple of years under Mourinho with stable development/progression before we're back at the top in terms of on-pitch performances.
It's why we need to sign a couple of more players this window. Jose needs to be allowed to construct his own team. Hard to manage in this climate of inflated fees, but it has to be done.
Anyone would think the sky had fallen in, we lost by the odd goal scored by one of the best players in the World, big deal.
Only saw the first half but, a couple of brain farts aside, thought we did well. We really threatened on the break and Pogba and Rashford both looked excellent against top opposition. A couple of top players would give us a very strong squad.
None. We're gonna get relegated.
Grey kit syndrome 
End of an era. Invincibles no more.
Didn't watch the game cos, you know, job. Still its a pre-season friendly. Why are so many people having a meltdown because we lost?
Also we lost to Barcelona. This isn't like back in the Moyes error when we lost to Thai all star XI!
Also we lost to Barcelona. This isn't like back in the Moyes error when we lost to Thai all star XI!
Passing the group stage ? come on.