2019/20 Rivals - Chelsea

ruskyline

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Messages
580
Location
MACS J1149+2223 Lensed Star 1
Earlier in the season Tammy was being compared favroubly against Rashford by actual United fans.

He's made good strides this season and has actually surprised me (pleasantly as an England fan sadly as a Chelsea fan) but main man is a bit extreme, in terms of wingers alone Sancho and Sterling are probably higher in the que for that role.
Why are you here? Why do you waste your time and our time argue with us? I bet you're one of those guys who copy and paste our comments in your teams forum.
Pulisic would not get in our starting 11 as of now. I don't care about what you have to say.
 

TheLord

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
1,690
Start of the season, before we played Utd I don't think Chelsea fans on here expected top 4. I said 5th in that thread iirc, because we swapped Hazard for Pulisic, which is a downgrade, brought a couple of Championship players we had on loan back in Mount and Abraham. Lampard is in first premier league season. Pretty sure we hired Lampard as the club thought we'd have a terrible season and wanted keep fans on side. Unlike with Sarri last year.

We've overachieved to be 3rd, the only reason we're that high is other teams had big problems as well.

Thing that bothers me is everyone digging Kepa, he's an easy target. A lot of our players have been woeful at times this season. Game yesterday was a good example!
I think Lampard has done okay everything considered - only his first season, loss of the best PL player, the transfer-ban...

However, the team seems to have gone backwards for the last five/six months, which should worry Chelsea fans. The defenders and the GK seem to have regressed. At least on paper, the combo of Kepa, Rüdiger, Zouma, Christensen, Azpilicueta, and Alonso should not leaking this many goals. These defenders/GK were never world-class (bar Azpilicueta), but there seems to a systemic problem with coaching, rather than with personnel. Just a few years ago, Chelsea had the best PL defence, and a few of these defenders were still playing. It has gone backwards.

If there is one adjective that defined Chelsea in the PL era, it was their “mean” defence. How things have changed.
 

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
50,137
Location
Chelsea (the saviours of football) fan.

UweBein

Creator of the Worst Analogy on the Internet.
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
3,729
Location
Köln
Supports
Chelsea
still. I am furious that we were beaten so easily. I do think we need 4 th place this season. We need IT.
 

Morpheus 7

Full Member
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
3,686
Location
Ireland
Says who? Practially every professional pundit and also every Redcafe poster who had the balls who had the balls to make a prediction here...
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/predict-the-top-6-in-order.449619/
Every pundit giving you lot a break more like, scandalous that your manager has gotten away from criticism. It's just the players now apparently, nothing to do Frank. Digging up a prediction thread on a United forum where Chelsea finished. You Chelsea fans need to stop feeling sorry for yourselves.
 

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
50,137
Location
Chelsea (the saviours of football) fan.
Every pundit giving you lot a break more like, scandalous that your manager has gotten away from criticism. It's just the players now apparently, nothing to do Frank. Digging up a prediction thread on a United forum where Chelsea finished. You Chelsea fans need to stop feeling sorry for yourselves.
Every pundit and and poster on here thought we would finish outside the top 4. Now that it looks like that might happen, it would be "scandalous" to feign surprise or shock at Chelsea being more or less exactly where you though we would.

"I think you'll get a "D" grade."
Gets a ""D" grade.
"OMG, I can't believe you got a "D" grade".
That's why the pundits are not piling on, it would be ridiculous.
 

Morpheus 7

Full Member
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
3,686
Location
Ireland
Every pundit and and poster on here thought we would finish outside the top 4. Now that it looks like that might happen, it would be "scandalous" to feign surprise or shock at Chelsea being more or less exactly where you though we would.

"I think you'll get a "D" grade."
Gets a ""D" grade.
"OMG, I can't believe you got a "D" grade".
That's why the pundits are not piling on, it would be ridiculous.
Again feeling sorry yourselves. If you don't get top 4 is because you blew it. Stop making your own narrative now the team is falling at the end, put some accountability on the manager and team. You know you lot will be singing his praise if you get top 4 yet, can't have it both ways.
 

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
50,137
Location
Chelsea (the saviours of football) fan.
Again feeling sorry yourselves. If you don't get top 4 is because you blew it. Stop making your own narrative now the team is falling at the end, put some accountability on the manager and team. You know you lot will be singing his praise if you get top 4 yet, can't have it both ways.
It's not my narrative, I predicted we'd finish second! The people who thought Chelsea would finish below 4th can gloat that they were right, they can't act shocked or think we underperformed (well they can but they obviously look like morons).

And there's a gap between signing praises and calling for someone's head. If Chelsea finish 5th it will be a meh season. Not a terrible one.
 

Mb194dc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Messages
4,595
Supports
Chelsea
I think Lampard has done okay everything considered - only his first season, loss of the best PL player, the transfer-ban...

However, the team seems to have gone backwards for the last five/six months, which should worry Chelsea fans. The defenders and the GK seem to have regressed. At least on paper, the combo of Kepa, Rüdiger, Zouma, Christensen, Azpilicueta, and Alonso should not leaking this many goals. These defenders/GK were never world-class (bar Azpilicueta), but there seems to a systemic problem with coaching, rather than with personnel. Just a few years ago, Chelsea had the best PL defence, and a few of these defenders were still playing. It has gone backwards.

If there is one adjective that defined Chelsea in the PL era, it was their “mean” defence. How things have changed.
Agree, though to me it's not particularly surprising given Lampards lack of experience.

The winning run earlier in the season and us being 3rd at all is the shock. Or it should be anyway
 

Skeezix

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
431
Every pundit and and poster on here thought we would finish outside the top 4. Now that it looks like that might happen, it would be "scandalous" to feign surprise or shock at Chelsea being more or less exactly where you though we would.

"I think you'll get a "D" grade."
Gets a ""D" grade.
"OMG, I can't believe you got a "D" grade".
That's why the pundits are not piling on, it would be ridiculous.
You're the brilliant kid whose parents just got divorced. And everyone expected you to flunk the year.
But it seems to have no effect. And you passed all the weekly, monthly, half-yearly tests in A+ grades.
And then suddenly end up with D+ grade in the final exams!

Everyone including me expected Chelsea to be out of top 4 due to the Hazard transfer and the Transfer ban.
But Frank surprised everyone. Chelsea continue to be in the top 4 for the last 8 months now. You were 10 points ahead of United by matchweek 12.
Barring the 1st 1/4th of the season, Chelsea and Leicester have been consistently good enough that no one expected them to fall out of CL places.
Now both are in a precarious position (Leicester more so). Your season seem to be falling apart (defense particularly)

The opposite for United though. We were expected to be top 4 guaranteed. But apart from the initial 3-4 games, it has been a disappointing journey till Bruno arrived. Now with the injured players recovering, fit and playing like a team, we seem to be moving in the right direction.

It is not the just the initial expectations on which the success of a season for a team is judged. The journey changes the expectation.
 

Mb194dc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Messages
4,595
Supports
Chelsea
It's not my narrative, I predicted we'd finish second! The people who thought Chelsea would finish below 4th can gloat that they were right, they can't act shocked or think we underperformed (well they can but they obviously look like morons).

And there's a gap between signing praises and calling for someone's head. If Chelsea finish 5th it will be a meh season. Not a terrible one.
Why did you think we'd finish 2nd? Weaker squad than year before surely, and Lampard in first top flight managerial season.

For me if Lampard gets top 4 will have overachieved.

He's still got a lot to learn, both tactically and man management. How he treated some of the players Luiz, Giroud, Kepa, Jorginho and others, when compared to Mount and Abraham who are seemingly favourites. It's all gone wrong for CHO this season as well. Though off pitch not on the manager obviously!
 

mav_9me

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
12,400
As for Lampard, it's a strange one to judge. I thought out of Ole and Frank, the latter was displaying traits of a potentially top manager early on in the season. Tactically and systematically, the football appeared to be more progressive and advanced than what we were under Ole. With the signing of Bruno and return of Pogba, we've completely transformed and that's either given Ole's team a bump/purple patch or truly allowed his ideas and management to shine through depending on your perspective. However, Chelsea, as the season has grown older, haven't really built on their early promise. If anything their defensive peformances show no improvement and possibly have even regressed and their season appears to be meandering rather than progressing.

Having said the above, Ole has had, what is it, nearly 200 million to spend of new signings and Lampard has had a transfer ban. So, while I think Chelsea are a football club that should demand excellence and if they feel Lampard appears evidently to be average or decent that shouldn't cut it, like it shouldn't for us. But there's an argument to be made that every manager deserves at least one /half a season having had a window to sign some players.
It's a hard one for me to judge both Lampard and Ole.

How much of our current performances are down to Bruno vs how much does Ole get credit? I don't know.

Similarly their defense is definitely poor. How much is simple down to the quality of the defenders vs should the manager be able to get more out of the defense. I don't know
 

Djemba-Djemba

Full Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
21,157
Location
Manchester
Yesterday is the worst I've seen Chelsea all season, worse than the hammering against Bayern and far worse than the hammering against us on the opening day.

Their defence is appalling and there are definitely questions over whether Lampard can organise a defence properly. They had the same defenders last season and looked much more solid. I know they were often boring to watch under Sarri but they were definitely tighter at the back, other than a couple of shockers against City and Bournemouth.

I still think they'll sneak top 4 but it'll be close.
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
18,139
Supports
Aston Villa
Have they been linked to any CBs, you'd think they'd go all in for someone like Koulibaly if they can tempt likes of Ziyech and Werner from other CL clubs. Seems they want a new LB but no Left back around can prevent every single cross from going into the box.

It was interesting hearing Lampard speak about not really bothering to work on defending crosses, said in his time you had Ballack, Terry, Carvalho and Drogba and they just took responsibility in the box.

Been a real weakness for Chelsea all season and Derby weren't great at them last season either as we scored from two simple crosses into the box in the play off final.
 

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
50,137
Location
Chelsea (the saviours of football) fan.
Have they been linked to any CBs, you'd think they'd go all in for someone like Koulibaly if they can tempt likes of Ziyech and Werner from other CL clubs. Seems they want a new LB but no Left back around can prevent every single cross from going into the box.
Nathan Ake, Lewis Dunk and Declan Rice (apparently Frank sees him as a centre back) have all been linked a few times recently plus links for a few years re Koulibaly.
 

Annouchez

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
36
Honest opinion from Chelsea fans, do you guys think Lampard is good enough to take you guys forward?
It's so nice this question isn't aimed at us United fans at the moment. We've needed the break. Cheers Frank.

I remember trying to defend Ole early on in the season with the viewpoint of "good players can win you matches and sh*t players can make you play sh*t no matter how good tactically a manager is". Now that Lampard is viewed as more of a PE teacher than Ole (the football world is so fickle) will he have his Ole 'everything has fallen into place' moment later on down the line if he manages to weather the storm? Could Havertz (unlikely now) for example be their Bruno like catalyst?
 

Bubz27

No I won’t change your tag line
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
21,502
They're very lucky to get 2 days extra rest going into the cup game next Sunday.
 

Pep's Suit

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
1,705
They need a quality gk and two experienced centre-backs. Right now their defence is terrible, personally don't even rate Rudiger that much.
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
18,139
Supports
Aston Villa
Nathan Ake, Lewis Dunk and Declan Rice (apparently Frank sees him as a centre back) have all been linked a few times recently plus links for a few years re Koulibaly.
Oh yeah of course Rice, durhh. Given he's ex Chelsea youth I imagine he'll push for a move if you come calling. Could also fill in midfield if you let Jorginho go.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,095
Location
Canada
Why did you think we'd finish 2nd? Weaker squad than year before surely, and Lampard in first top flight managerial season.

For me if Lampard gets top 4 will have overachieved.

He's still got a lot to learn, both tactically and man management. How he treated some of the players Luiz, Giroud, Kepa, Jorginho and others, when compared to Mount and Abraham who are seemingly favourites. It's all gone wrong for CHO this season as well. Though off pitch not on the manager obviously!
This is a good point. Lampard's man management has been a big question especially in the latter half of the season. His obsession with Mount seems a strange one, just like Ole had with lingard early on but to ole's defense he didn't have other options. Lampard at least has option like Kovacic. Also, giroud has been your best striker and he for some reason prefers Tammy. So yes Lampard deserves to be questioned on that front.
 

TheLord

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
1,690
This is a good point. Lampard's man management has been a big question especially in the latter half of the season. His obsession with Mount seems a strange one, just like Ole had with lingard early on but to ole's defense he didn't have other options. Lampard at least has option like Kovacic. Also, giroud has been your best striker and he for some reason prefers Tammy. So yes Lampard deserves to be questioned on that front.
May be he is too entrenched with the idea of promoting youth. While there is nothing wrong with that philosophy, Chelsea’s homegrown youngsters have not done themselves any favours.
 
Last edited:

TrustInJanuzaj

'Liverpool are a proper club'
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
10,664
Werner is going to be such a huge upgrade on Abraham.
In some ways sure but Werner will struggle if he’s played as a lone striker and expected to carry the team from the front. Martial has had to learn that the hard way this season but only now seems to be getting fully to grip with it. I can’t see Werner starting that quickly.
 

Dancfc

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
7,392
Supports
Chelsea
In some ways sure but Werner will struggle if he’s played as a lone striker and expected to carry the team from the front. Martial has had to learn that the hard way this season but only now seems to be getting fully to grip with it. I can’t see Werner starting that quickly.
We can afford learning curves next season and City and Liverpool will still be too strong as far the top two are concerned.

It will be the year after next we'll be expected to produce a serious challenge.
 

Robbie Boy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
27,693
Location
Dublin
In some ways sure but Werner will struggle if he’s played as a lone striker and expected to carry the team from the front. Martial has had to learn that the hard way this season but only now seems to be getting fully to grip with it. I can’t see Werner starting that quickly.
Well the overarching point I was making was that Abraham is nowhere near good enough to be a starting striker for Chelsea. Werner has far more to his all-round game and will be a much better foil for the likes of Pulisic and Ziyech. I really just don't rate Abraham.
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
31,029
Wolves could still catch these lot
 

Robbie Boy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
27,693
Location
Dublin
I love how all of a sudden Chelsea fans are claiming that top four would always have been seen as a success and some didn't expect top four, apparently. So who were these 4 teams that were oh so inferior? Obviously City and Liverpool were going to form the top two, but seriously after that, who were these two other teams that Chelsea fans saw as such inferior teams that they didn't expect Chelsea to get top four? Seems like a a blatant lie tbh.

I mean this is bearing in mind that Chelsea finished third last season.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
37,331
Well the overarching point I was making was that Abraham is nowhere near good enough to be a starting striker for Chelsea. Werner has far more to his all-round game and will be a much better foil for the likes of Pulisic and Ziyech. I really just don't rate Abraham.
Werner isnt a striker though? Doesnt he play on Pulisic side?
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
31,029
They could still catch you!
They will hopefully be closer to you after tomorrows match :p
However your game against Liverpool super important now. Wolves last day of the season and you don't want them to have a UCL spot in their grasp at that point
 

TheLord

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
1,690
What do you mean by that?
Small typo there!

I mean Chelsea’s youngsters are overhyped. Lampard may have put too much faith in their abilities. As an example, I was surprised to see Tammy start ahead of Giroud in yesterday’s crucial fixture.
 

Dancfc

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
7,392
Supports
Chelsea
Small typo there!

I mean Chelsea’s youngsters are overhyped. Lampard may have put too much faith in their abilities. As an example, I was surprised to see Tammy start ahead of Giroud in yesterday’s crucial fixture.
I don't agree, I think they're a huge reason (if not the main) we are still in with a shout of top 4, but ofcourse they have ups and downs at that age and unfortunately Mount aside it's a period of the latter for pretty much all of them. The senior players have let us down a lot more than they have over the course of the season.

Do agree Giroud should have played yesterday however, Tammy is on a massive rut at the moment and has responded to Werner's arrival the complete opposite way to what Pulisic has.
 

Prodigal7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
2,221
Location
Daenerys' pants
Small typo there!

I mean Chelsea’s youngsters are overhyped. Lampard may have put too much faith in their abilities. As an example, I was surprised to see Tammy start ahead of Giroud in yesterday’s crucial fixture.
Reece James and Mount look comfortable in the league but not top 4 level IMO. Gilmore could get there but he’s completely out of his depth at the moment.
 

Robbie Boy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
27,693
Location
Dublin
Reece James and Mount look comfortable in the league but not top 4 level IMO. Gilmore could get there but he’s completely out of his depth at the moment.
There's a massive discrepancy when it comes to hype level v performances in regards to Gilmour.

Mount is absolutely nowhere near good enough but I think James has given a good account of himself.
 

TheLord

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
1,690
The senior players have let us down a lot more than they have over the course of the season.
I disagree. Over the course of the season, it has usually been Willian’s goals or Giroud’s tap-ins or Barkley’s long-rangers or Alonso’s or Pedro’s goals that have saved Chelsea’s skin.
Except for the first few months of the season, Chelsea’s overhyped youngsters have disappointed, bar Pulisic. I think Mount will succeed in the long run, I don’t think others will.