Thanks Rafa.
2019/20 Rivals - Spurs | Bergwijn out for the remainder of the season
- Thread starter AkaAkuma
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Do you take no account at all of the c. £1 billion invested in the new stadium and training centre? And it's not as if money has been siphoned out the club - the shareholders have taken no dividend payments for many years, despite the club making big profits.
This means that the only way for us to have spent more than (or as much as) on transfers as the likes of West Ham, Leicester and Newcastle would have been by borrowing even more money. Is this what you would have recommended?
I would be surprised if we don't see another big signing before the end of the window, but then again I was surprised when we signed no one last summer.
I’m 90% sure Sessegnon will come in which I’m over the moon about as I think he’s one of the top young talents in world football.
I’m 50/50 about Fernandes and/or Lo Celso.
The thing that irritates me is Eriksen leaving. I didn’t think it would happen but now it’s looking more likely.
The only way to show ambition™️ is by spending in the transfer market and nothing else.
The only way for us to have spent more on transfers than the likes of West Ham, Leicester and Newcastle would have been by borrowing even more money.
So I'll ask you the same question I've just asked another poster: Is even more borrowing what you would have recommended? Because all the rest of our money has gone into the stadium and training centre … and there is no magic pot of gold hidden away.
Yep. Feck the new stadium and training centre - who needs 'em anyway?
We should have done a Leeds and indulged in in a blaze of transfer spending spree glory. Here today - gone tomorrow.
For like the millionth time nobody has asked for us to go and blow stupid amounts on players so stop inventing imaginary arguments.
A player or two of quality added every summer and outgoings replaced is what reasonable fans want, and it's a perfectly reasonable thing to expect.
I don’t think everyone will “do a Leeds” but borrowing large amounts for transfers is becoming very common practice - especially this season. Barcelona and Real Madrid are partaking big time and Arsenal must be as their finances don’t line up.
Will be interesting to see how it all plays out in a few year’s time.
I haven't mentioned anything about blowing "stupid amounts on players". I'm simply pointing out the fact that to have spent more on transfers over the last several years than we have could only have been funded by increased borrowing compared to what we have already borrowed.
Won't you at least acknowledge this truth?
This summer, as compared to many past recent windows, is really the first time that - without more long-term borrowing - we can afford to spend more on transfers (because of projected new stadium and CL income, and the CL income from last season). And so we are spending more this summer - £64m spent so far (and £28m recovered from sales). Will we spend more this summer? Let's wait and see.
Whenever people ask for more transfers you go straight to 'oh people want us to do a leeds/borrow hundreds of millions' when really that isn't what people are asking for. It's designed to make people asking for more in the transfer market look totally unreasonable and it's not fair at all.
And do I think if we spent a little more in the transfer market (such as replacing dembele earlier, replacing trippier etc) to maintain the squad we would need to borrow at unprecedented rates? No. I think our debt is serviceable to the point where we could still remain competitive whilst spending a bit more, not extravagant amounts but enough to keep the squad ticking over and not becoming overly reliant on unproven youth products.
We've spent 36 million net this summer - with others like Vorm and Llorente out the door so the wage bill I imagine has gone down. And we spent that on a player to replace Moussa Dembele who left January last season. We were always going to have to spend a bit since we were the only PL club ever to not bring in a single player last window, but we've not exactly been big spenders.
But yeah, we'll wait and see what we do at the end of the window. My two expected scenarios are we either sign nobody, or we add Sessegnon and that's all. Which would be a solid signing for the future but not one (imo) which really improves us in the here and now. Personally I think we should be pushing hard for fernandes/lo celso in order to settle in an early Eriksen replacement.
I would prefer to get a fee for Eriksen than losing him on a free and put that money into another attacking midfielder. Surely we would buy if we sold Eriksen? Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I suspect we will see a RB and another midfielder before the window shuts.
Don't think selling Eriksen is possible any longer. He wants to leave on a free so he can have his pick of any club in the world and also get a huge sell on fee/wage hike. All he has to do is wait another year .. it's a bit of a mess from our perspective really, especially with Toby also going.
Sometimes I wish we were fighting relegations and enjoying the likes of Andy Sinton, Timothy Atubu and Helder Postiga... I really, really do.
No you don't.
Their choice is it not? Trust me in the current climate they will not be the last, or the highest profile. In all honesty it’s what the sport needs, a rejag if wages and transfer fees.
Andy Sinton won more for Spurs than any of your current lot have! Have some respect for a club legend.
I'm 94% sure you made up Timothy Atubu, that name does not ring any bells!
It is their choice, but it's still not exactly ideal losing two key first team players (one of which is one of our best full stop) at once. Especially when we're hardly the kind of club to go out and spend huge money to find replacements.
It's Atouba, Cameroon player I think, scored a cracker at Newcastle early on in the short lived reign of Jacques Santini.
Summer 2004 was when Spurs used to make loads of (random) signings. Erik Edman, Reto Ziegler, Noe Pamarot etc.
https://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=2590&teamTabs=transfers&season_id=152
Anyway seems they're not signing Lo Celso so can only think they'll keep Eriksen up to January and then cash in.
Summer 2004 was when Spurs used to make loads of (random) signings. Erik Edman, Reto Ziegler, Noe Pamarot etc.
https://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=2590&teamTabs=transfers&season_id=152
Anyway seems they're not signing Lo Celso so can only think they'll keep Eriksen up to January and then cash in.
A bit of a typo but yeah, he exsisted
.
Was possibly the most awkward player I have ever seen, didn’t know what he was doing most of the time, but occasionally it worked.
This is the last Pochettino season at Spurs. OGS or Zidane will mess up (hopefully Zizou) and Pochettino will go, that's almost a certain.
I agree far from ideal, but I have been thinking about this lately. These players are seeing themselves going for obscene amounts and I am not surprised they are now saying “I want some of that”.
I agree, but I think that’s true no matter how much money we realistically spend.
Well, yeah.
What's wrong with a little debt financing? Some of the biggest clubs in Europe survive because of its existence. Most likely all of them to varying degrees. Spurs are big and rich enough that they'd have no trouble attracting potential lenders, regardless of the ongoing stadium repayments. If they wanted it, they could have got it. And still could.
Spurs will be practically rolling in it when the returns from their stadium and training centre investments kick in (right?). So why not secure a few extra million to fund a transfer here or there?
That might be true, of course. But he comes across like a loyal guy and I guess if you showed real ambition this transfer window, building on your CL final, he would have stayed.
Now, imo, you are short in numbers and you do have players prone to injury so that will be a big problem for you this season. If Poch is unhappy, the motivation he can give to the squad will also be off a bit.
With all these things considered, It's tough to say Spurs can achieve more points this season compared to last, so they will be around 75 points if things are a bit better than last season.
That means that Spurs will get into top 4 only if Arsenal and MU can't improve on their last season's performances as well. But judging by the spending they will!
It also depends on Chelsea, of course, but I'm subjectively optimistic
Wheres all of your money gone though? Your net spend in the last 10 years is less than £44m. Its not gone on wages, your players have moaned enough about that and you haven't been investing it in transfer fees. So ultimately you've saved all your tv money and prize money to pump it back into your stadium (thats fine). Except apparently you've borrowed more money anyway to finance it? It cost close to 1 billion according to google, yet you're £600m in debt? Now i'm no accountant, but the maths don't add up.
So in 10 years you've only managed to amass a kitty of 400 million to finance the stadium? That means you've saved 40 million a season on average. That seriously doesn't sound like much. Last season alone you earned £145m just from PL prize money! Generally curious to know where all your money has gone and why you've borrowed so much. You got a decent article about your clubs finances?
Nah he wouldn’t join another London club he is loyal to an extent, I can see the draw of Liverpool or City though, even United if times were better.That might be true, of course. But he comes across like a loyal guy and I guess if you showed real ambition this transfer window, building on your CL final, he would have stayed.
Now, imo, you are short in numbers and you do have players prone to injury so that will be a big problem for you this season. If Poch is unhappy, the motivation he can give to the squad will also be off a bit.
With all these things considered, It's tough to say Spurs can achieve more points this season compared to last, so they will be around 75 points if things are a bit better than last season.
That means that Spurs will get into top 4 only if Arsenal and MU can't improve on their last season's performances as well. But judging by the spending they will!
It also depends on Chelsea, of course, but I'm subjectively optimistic
Maybe because it's better to wait until the returns properly kick in … and then we can spend more on transfers and wages than if we'd borrowed extra money now, because then we won't have to the extra debt burden to finance.
It's only in the last 2 or 3 years that our income has seriously increased. Prior to that, CL income was an occasional bonus and not a regular thing. And it's only once we moved to Wembley, with its much greater capacity, that our match-day income was significantly boosted. WHL only had a capacity of around 36k.
No dividends have been paid to shareholders, so all of the money not spent on transfers, wages and general running costs has gone into the stadium complex (which is/will be a fair bit more than just the stadium itself) and training centre.
All of the annual financial reports for Spurs are available online, so you can see year by year exactly where the money has gone.
All of the annual financial reports for Spurs are available online, so you can see year by year exactly where the money has gone.
Do you think this team under Pochettino was a missed opportunity though?
I mean, you've won nothing and the team seems to be moving on. Perhaps with actual investment you may well have won trophies which is surely what football is all about? Don't get me wrong, it's helped with your long term status but its hampered your short term development.
Well, it's the long-term vs the short-term.
Levy's stated aim is to establish Spurs as one of Europe's elite teams. We can't get there without putting in place the required long-term foundations in terms of income. The new stadium is key to this since it will boost our annual income compared to the old stadium by around £100m every year, year in and year out.
As for the team "moving on" - players come and players go at all clubs. E.g. Dembele gone, Ndombele arrives. Or Alderweireld goes next summer and Davinson Sanchez takes his place. Players moving on doesn't necessarily mean the team will decline.
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I could see it happening but this has basically been said once a month (and sometimes more) for the past 4 years.
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They will bring in Sessegnon most likely. Then Lo Celso/Fernandes is dependent upon what happens with Eriksen, if Eriksen goes I would expect Spurs to go after one of those two. If Eriksen stays Sessegnon will be the last xfer they bring in.
Surprised no one took a punt on Alderweireld's release clause for 25mil, looks like he is at Spurs for another year.
Ndombele is a good purchase, I thought they would have moved on one of Dier or Wanyama, dont need both of those players. Midfield options of Ndombele, Sissoko, Winks, (Dire or Wanyama) is fine. Alli can play in midfield at a pinch as well, and they have that young kid Pochettino likes in midfield, Skip.
Pochettino's last year at Spurs? Destined for the hotseat at RM?
Surprised no one took a punt on Alderweireld's release clause for 25mil, looks like he is at Spurs for another year.
Ndombele is a good purchase, I thought they would have moved on one of Dier or Wanyama, dont need both of those players. Midfield options of Ndombele, Sissoko, Winks, (Dire or Wanyama) is fine. Alli can play in midfield at a pinch as well, and they have that young kid Pochettino likes in midfield, Skip.
Pochettino's last year at Spurs? Destined for the hotseat at RM?
If the reports are correct, their transfer window could look like Ndombele, Coutinho, Dybala, Clarke and Sessegnon, which would be a serious statement of intent and probably makes their attacking depth close to City's. Never in a million years would I expect Levy to spend this much on players, especially on big wages. Absolute madness if they can pull it off.
None of Coutinho, Sessegnon and Dybala have happened yet.
Sessegnon 30M
Coutinho Loan
Dybala 70€M
Ndombele 55M
That don't sound bad
Coutinho Loan
Dybala 70€M
Ndombele 55M
That don't sound bad
I’d be amazed if Coutinho to Spurs happens
I’m not saying it won’t
I just can’t see it, I’d be amazed
I’m not saying it won’t
I just can’t see it, I’d be amazed
This still has the chance to be a really good window for us and also a disastrous one. Next day or two is going to be tense.
After a few years of doing nothing, Spurs are doing everything.
We might still do nothing!