2019/20 Rivals - Spurs

RedSky

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So weird to think there are Tottenham fans that don't think Eriksen is world class. The lad has 50 PL assists in 4 seasons, yet they think he's replaceable? Very few players have managed that in 4 seasons in Premier League history.

He's already in the top 20 of Premier League Assists (19th with 60).
 
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Redderp

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Kane is their most important player and Eriksen their second most important player. I think everything will be alright for them as long as they have those two players. They have a lot of other good players like Son, Dele Alli and so on, but i think they are a tier below Kane and Eriksen in how important they are for Spurs.

I think Levy fecked up by not finding a replacement for Eriksen last summer or winter. Maybe they looked and couldn’t find anyone they deemed affordable and good enough, but it’s a bit of a dilemma for them now. Will they try and sell Eriksen now and then risk Lo Celso not being ready or do they keep Eriksen and let him leave on a free so they can let Lo Celso take his time to learn to play in the PL. It might be worth not selling Eriksen to avoid a potential lack of playmaking in the team.

But man it would have been such a scoop if we had gotten Eriksen. It would legit have made us the favorite for 3rd place and made Spurs season so much harder.
 
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Powderfinger

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Eriksen is a top class player for sure.

Lo Celso looks like a good young player but the odds of him ever becoming as good as Eriksen are fairly low. That's not really a knock on him or a claim that it definitely won't happen, just an acknowledgement that players as good as Eriksen are rare. If Lo Celso was such a can't miss prospect that he was virtually nailed on to become as good as Eriksen, he would have been sold for 100m and lots of big clubs would have been in the bidding.
 

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So weird to think there are Tottenham fans that don't think Eriksen is world class. The lad has 50 PL assists in 4 seasons, yet they think he's replaceable? Very few players have managed that in 4 seasons in Premier League history.

He's already in the top 20 of Premier League Assists (19th with 60).
I think the general point being made, at least the one I am in agreement with, is that creativity is easier to replace than consistent, high level goal scoring.

Eriksen is an incredible player and has been massive throughout his career for Spurs. No doubt about it. And there is certainly an argument to be made that he deserves the world class label. That said, if he were to leave I think we’d have an easier time replacing him than if Kane were to leave. Would his replacement be able to replicate his exact stats? Maybe not. But I think the point holds that finding a player to add creativity to the side and bag, say, 10-12 assists in a season would be easier to do for a club like Spurs than to replace a 25 goal per season striker like Kane.
 

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I think Spurs strength lies in the fact they have about 50 different attacking options, which given the injuries those players tend to have helps them out a lot. Moura, Kane, Son, Eriksen would all walk into our team, and Lamela and Alli would likely displace Lingard. Their midfield depth with help them out a lot this season, but I do think their full back options are a bit weak currently which stops them being a title contender.
 

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I think the general point being made, at least the one I am in agreement with, is that creativity is easier to replace than consistent, high level goal scoring.

Eriksen is an incredible player and has been massive throughout his career for Spurs. No doubt about it. And there is certainly an argument to be made that he deserves the world class label. That said, if he were to leave I think we’d have an easier time replacing him than if Kane were to leave. Would his replacement be able to replicate his exact stats? Maybe not. But I think the point holds that finding a player to add creativity to the side and bag, say, 10-12 assists in a season would be easier to do for a club like Spurs than to replace a 25 goal per season striker like Kane.
Getting a consistent creative player is just as difficult as getting a consistent goal scorer. Replacing world class players (which Eriksen clearly is in my opinion) is very, very difficult and if Eriksen does leave you will find it very hard to replace him. From my perspective I bloody hope he leaves you guys by the end of the window because you'll struggle to break down teams without him.

I don't actually think he will leave so it's a moot point I guess. :)
 

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Getting a consistent creative player is just as difficult as getting a consistent goal scorer. Replacing world class players (which Eriksen clearly is in my opinion) is very, very difficult and if Eriksen does leave you will find it very hard to replace him. From my perspective I bloody hope he leaves you guys by the end of the window because you'll struggle to break down teams without him.

I don't actually think he will leave so it's a moot point I guess. :)
Certainly hope you’re right that he sticks around! Trying to remain cautiously optimistic. Still, excited to watch Lo Celso play and grow under Poch. If Eriksen does indeed stay, not only would it be great purely from a quality perspective, but the depth it would add to the squad would be huge.
 

1966

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So weird to think there are Tottenham fans that don't think Eriksen is world class. The lad has 50 PL assists in 4 seasons, yet they think he's replaceable? Very few players have managed that in 4 seasons in Premier League history.

He's already in the top 20 of Premier League Assists (19th with 60).
Eriksen absolutely is world class. He's just slightly more replaceable than the utterly irreplaceable Kane. That's what we're really arguing about when people try to say that Eriksen is Spurs' "best" or "most important" player.

Eriksen's assist stats are helped by having possibly the best striker in the world to aim at (the guy with currently the best GPG ratio in PL history). But unless you watch every Spurs game, you probably don't see Eriksen's "off" periods. He's not always the imperious dictator of a football match that constitutes the bulk of his reputation: he can actually become rather anonymous for not insignificant stretches of time, particularly during the first few months of each season.

Overall, Kane and Eriksen have a highly synergistic relationship: one that has bolstered both of their respective individual stats. Losing Eriksen would be a huge blow and I don't think anyone is trying to claim otherwise (at least I hope not!). Without a creative-minded AM of a PL-ready standard ready to step in, losing Eriksen would make top 4 a real struggle (if, e.g., Lo Celso couldn't make an immediate impact).

On the other hand, Kane has scored up to ~40% of the team's total league goals in a couple of previous seasons, and losing him would mean dropping back down to the pre-Poch+Kane era[1] of struggling for EL. There is no vaguely realistic replacement for Kane and that's if anyone could do his job without a dip in quality.

[1] It's an oft-forgotten fact that Kane basically saved Poch's job in the former's breakout and latter's debut season. Poch himself has said so on multiple occasions. Spurs were having a horrible time in the league and really struggling to score for the first few months. Kane's goals salvaged that season, which is why Spurs' ascent to the top tier of European football can be traced back to the arrival of both Poch and Kane. They started the "Poch era" together. That underlines Kane's significance to Spurs as much as everything he has achieved since.
 
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SquishyMcSquish

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So weird to think there are Tottenham fans that don't think Eriksen is world class. The lad has 50 PL assists in 4 seasons, yet they think he's replaceable? Very few players have managed that in 4 seasons in Premier League history.

He's already in the top 20 of Premier League Assists (19th with 60).
Who said he isn't world class? He's one of the best attacking midfielders around.

All that has been said is that we think Kane is a better player. He is the more consistent performer for us in general.

I don't think Eriksen is replaceable by any single player, but I do think Ndombele + Lo Celso coming in and starting together is a solid way to overall improve our midfield if Eriksen does move. We can replace his presence in the team by improving all round as a midfield, we now have two other players who are creative and a goal threat, rather than players who are tidy and work hard like winks/sissoko/skipp etc.

But replacing a goalscorer like Kane? Nobody we have can do that. People might say Son but he's simply not consistent enough and too much of a streaky player, one who has never even gotten close to 20 league goals. None of our attacking combinations give us enough goals over a lengthy period to replace what Kane offers.
 

Scroto Baggins

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Kane certainly looks lean and fit. His second goal against Villa he made it look easy.

Eriksen seems like he wants RM and only RM, the question being do RM want Eriksen? I dont buy this move to Athletico, that is a step sideways rather than up, he could just stay at Spurs if Athletico was his only option. Sign a new contract and be on 200k a week(plus bonuses) which is the Spurs wage cap.
 

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Kane certainly looks lean and fit. His second goal against Villa he made it look easy.

Eriksen seems like he wants RM and only RM, the question being do RM want Eriksen? I dont buy this move to Athletico, that is a step sideways rather than up, he could just stay at Spurs if Athletico was his only option. Sign a new contract and be on 200k a week(plus bonuses) which is the Spurs wage cap.
Think that's how this will end.
 

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Not really getting the hype, certainly not as the dark horse title contenders some people seem to think they are (and this isn't because I'm a Chelsea fan, if you look at my post's from a couple of years back i was saying it was only a matter of time before they won the league if they kept their trajectory up, thankfully they didn't).

Eriksen made an instant difference after coming on, if i was Levy i'd keep him for the season even if it meant losing him for free as CL money will cover the lost £50m. Which brings me onto my next point, if they keep him they should have enough to get 3rd quite comfortably given the issue's at Chelsea, Arsenal and United however if they lose him they are right in the dogfight with us.
 

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if the Madrid move doesn’t materialize this summer, possibly signing a new contract with a gentleman's agreement that we’ll let him go next summer considering we’d then be able to get a good fee. That would certainly be the idea scenario for me (other than him fully committing his future to Spurs of course), but is probably a pipe dream.
Unless it's 350k-400k a week why on earth would he sign a contract knowing that's what he's likely worth on a free on the open market? That's what Ramsey/Ozil are on after running down their contracts

His next contract is surely his last big one and I don't think Spurs will want to give him that type of contract
 

Scroto Baggins

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Unless it's 350k-400k a week why on earth would he sign a contract knowing that's what he's likely worth on a free on the open market? That's what Ramsey/Ozil are on after running down their contracts

His next contract is surely his last big one and I don't think Spurs will want to give him that type of contract
Spurs wont give him 350-400k a week, their wage cap is 200k/week plus bonuses, which is what Kane is on.

But then only a few clubs can afford 350-400k a week in wages for players. And if RM and Barca are not interested in signing him then what other options are there? Athletico is a step sideways, maybe Juve? I dont feel they are a massive step up from Spurs though at present, like a RM or Barca would be. He isnt going to another PL club it seems, doesnt leave a lot of options. PSG? The league is such a step down as to not be worthwhile unless you are after $$$ and not much else. Bayern? Again, don't see them as a massive step up from Spurs at present.
 

ThierryFabregas

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Spurs wont give him 350-400k a week, their wage cap is 200k/week plus bonuses, which is what Kane is on.

But then only a few clubs can afford 350-400k a week in wages for players. And if RM and Barca are not interested in signing him then what other options are there? Athletico is a step sideways, maybe Juve? I dont feel they are a massive step up from Spurs though at present, like a RM or Barca would be. He isnt going to another PL club it seems, doesnt leave a lot of options. PSG? The league is such a step down as to not be worthwhile unless you are after $$$ and not much else. Bayern? Again, don't see them as a massive step up from Spurs at present.
I mean for most players of his age their next contract is to maximise career earnings potential, rather than being on mere football ambition. Eriksen has being underpaid in world football terms given he's on a reported 70k. This is his big chance to secure his financial future.

Who could offer him 300k+ - Real, Barce, City, United, Juve, PSG and maybe Bayern. And while Real/Barce aren't in for him now, they may well be on a free transfer. There were no rumours of Ramsey going in 2018 but in 2019 both Bayern and Juve amongst others offered him huge wages

Also Juve/PSG are big clubs and you get almost guaranteed silverwear alongside a shot at the CL.
 

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49308896

This Vertonghen situation is a bit ominous. Have to think he and Poch had some sort of falling out.
Yeah something has went on, really wierd as only last week he seemed to be happy as could be. One of my favourite players in recent times, hopefully will all be sorted out soon.

The whole “he is being underpaid” argument is bullshit, there has been a few contracts on the table now Over the seasons. Levy always offers improved contracts every few years, Eriksen has chosen not to sign. A contract now would easily be the same as Kane’s, £200-£250k with bonuses.
 

cjj

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So weird to think there are Tottenham fans that don't think Eriksen is world class. The lad has 50 PL assists in 4 seasons, yet they think he's replaceable? Very few players have managed that in 4 seasons in Premier League history.

He's already in the top 20 of Premier League Assists (19th with 60).
Thats a bit of a fake stat though, like any "assist" stat. You only get an assist if someone scores from the chance you create.

Eriksen has the likes of Kane on the end of them, who scores more chances that most other players would.

It's perfectly reasonable logic to assume that if he switched with Shelvey (another excellent passer, if a bit of a muppet), that they might have each other's stats. I can't imagine getting assists in teams with poorer players on the end of the crosses/through balls/corners is easy.


That's not a slight on Eriksen, just point out the flaw in using assists as any marque of ability
 

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Thats a bit of a fake stat though, like any "assist" stat. You only get an assist if someone scores from the chance you create.

Eriksen has the likes of Kane on the end of them, who scores more chances that most other players would.

It's perfectly reasonable logic to assume that if he switched with Shelvey (another excellent passer, if a bit of a muppet), that they might have each other's stats.
I can't imagine getting assists in teams with poorer players on the end of the crosses/through balls/corners is easy.


That's not a slight on Eriksen, just point out the flaw in using assists as any marque of ability
That's a joke right?
 

redshaw

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Slight worry for Eriksen is he's 28 this Feb and obviously will be 29 midway through his first season on a free. I'm sure they'll be lots of takers but maybe not at the length or salary he might expect. He's spent a lot of time on a low wage at Spurs, it's surprising he hasn't signed an improved deal or left yet.
 

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Whilst all the talk is about Kane and Eriksen for me the biggest positive from yestersdays game was how well Walker-Peters played at RB.

He played better in that game than Trippier did in any game last season.
 

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Only if you are limited in comprehension
Fair enough.

So you're saying JJS could function in equal capacity to Eriksen, in terms of providing assists at least, because Harry Kane is a decent finisher. Surely you can see the glaring flaw in this logic?
 

cjj

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Fair enough.

So you're saying JJS could function in equal capacity to Eriksen, in terms of providing assists at least, because Harry Kane is a decent finisher. Surely you can see the glaring flaw in this logic?
Nope, I'm pointing out that judging a player based purely on an "assist" statistic is somewhat redundant.

It has no solid foundation for reliable predication, considering that the ability of the goalscorer significantly affects the assist statistic. Other stats like 'chances created' and so on are a better measure.

The JJS comparison was to point out that Eriksen would struggle to get a decent quantity of assists in a team that was bereft of goalscorers, just the same that any other player in a struggling team might find it easy to get 'assists' if the had players in front of them that had a far greater ability to convert chances.

(e.g. getting an 'assist' is based on many factors, with only a limited number of those being down to the ability of the assister; so its only a measure of what happened, and not a predication of what any other player could/would have done in their position in the absence of further stats)
 

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Eriksen is a quality player, if he left we would miss him greatly we were after Dybala and Fernandes for a reason, I’m sure we will go back in in January, the money is clearly there to spend. Get Eriksen to sign an extension or with a release clause and in my opinion we will have a great season.
 

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Unless it's 350k-400k a week why on earth would he sign a contract knowing that's what he's likely worth on a free on the open market? That's what Ramsey/Ozil are on after running down their contracts

His next contract is surely his last big one and I don't think Spurs will want to give him that type of contract
I agree it’s unlikely, hence why u called it a pipe dream, but in the unlikely event the clubs he wants to go to still aren’t in for him or if the contract offers aren’t what he’s looking for, there could be a chance he signs another contract at Spurs. Again, don’t think it’s particularly likely, but there is a small possibility.

And I do think Spurs would give him a big contract in the event he wants to stay, at least by Spurs’ standards. It certainly won’t be 350k per week, but on par with Kane I’d hope. Will it be enough to convince him to stay? Time will tell. But it all matters not if Madrid decide they do indeed want him. That’s clearly where he wants to go.
 

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Kane certainly looks lean and fit. His second goal against Villa he made it look easy.

Eriksen seems like he wants RM and only RM, the question being do RM want Eriksen? I dont buy this move to Athletico, that is a step sideways rather than up, he could just stay at Spurs if Athletico was his only option. Sign a new contract and be on 200k a week(plus bonuses) which is the Spurs wage cap.
How is Athletico a sideways move ? Pretty sure they will win something before Spurs does. They have done a good job at reinvesting the Griezmann money and their team looks very solid. I hope for him that he gets the chance to join Real Madrid though.
 

RedSky

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Thats a bit of a fake stat though, like any "assist" stat. You only get an assist if someone scores from the chance you create.

Eriksen has the likes of Kane on the end of them, who scores more chances that most other players would.

It's perfectly reasonable logic to assume that if he switched with Shelvey (another excellent passer, if a bit of a muppet), that they might have each other's stats. I can't imagine getting assists in teams with poorer players on the end of the crosses/through balls/corners is easy.

That's not a slight on Eriksen, just point out the flaw in using assists as any marque of ability
Agree to a point, but when you look at the list to top assists in the PL you've got names such as:

Giggs, Fabregas, Rooney, Lampard, Bergkamp, Gerrard, Beckham, Henry, Shearer etc

Those are some of the best names to grace the league. But lets just assume I agree that Assist is a bit junk, if you look at Key Pass stat he's also top of that in the last 3 seasons by some distance. He's an exceptional player suggesting Shelvey (:lol:) could replace him is a bit ridiculous.

Who said he isn't world class? He's one of the best attacking midfielders around.
bigdub certainly implied it and you've got the fella above me who thinks Shelvey could have replaced him. :lol:
 

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bigdub certainly implied it and you've got the fella above me who thinks Shelvey could have replaced him. :lol:
Let me clarify then that I do personally agree he’s a world class player, but was a bit softer in my post because I think debates over a player’s “world class” status are so subjective, considering that people’s definition of the term can vary considerably.

Regardless of the label you want to use, he’s an incredible player and it would be a big blow if we were to lose him.
 

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How is Athletico a sideways move ? Pretty sure they will win something before Spurs does. They have done a good job at reinvesting the Griezmann money and their team looks very solid. I hope for him that he gets the chance to join Real Madrid though.
I certainly wouldn't swap our squad for Atletico's.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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bigdub certainly implied it and you've got the fella above me who thinks Shelvey could have replaced him. :lol:

I don't think @cjj is saying Shelvey could replace him, just trying to make the point that the assist stat can be misleading. I just think he's framed his argument a bit weirdly and now people think he's saying Shelvey could do the same job .. I think every Spurs fans knows what Eriksen offers to the team and it's far more than just his passing range.
 

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Agreed, the only reason they could win something apposed to us is that half of La Liga is not at a PL level.

I actually think the bottom half of La Liga is stronger than the Prem (certainly technically speaking) but that we have a much stronger top half, especially the top six.

The only thing I can see Atletico winning in the near future is a domestic cup, Barca have a strangehold over the league unless Real get their act together, and they've faltered a bit in Europe for the last few seasons now. Lost a couple of key players in the summer too and whilst Joao Felix is a talent, would I bank on him replacing Griezmann's contribution? Nah.

For me it would be pretty much the definition of a sideways step. Two clubs in a not dissimilar situation with a new stadium, punching above their weight etc.
 

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I actually think the bottom half of La Liga is stronger than the Prem (certainly technically speaking) but that we have a much stronger top half, especially the top six.

The only thing I can see Atletico winning in the near future is a domestic cup, Barca have a strangehold over the league unless Real get their act together, and they've faltered a bit in Europe for the last few seasons now. Lost a couple of key players in the summer too and whilst Joao Felix is a talent, would I bank on him replacing Griezmann's contribution? Nah.

For me it would be pretty much the definition of a sideways step. Two clubs in a not dissimilar situation with a new stadium, punching above their weight etc.
Technically maybe but would you see a promoted Liga 2 team putting in a Villa performance from yesterday?
 

John Johnson

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We should have a rivals thread for Leicester, Wolves and Everton because we'll finish closer to that lot than Spurs
 

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I don't think @cjj is saying Shelvey could replace him, just trying to make the point that the assist stat can be misleading. I just think he's framed his argument a bit weirdly and now people think he's saying Shelvey could do the same job .. I think every Spurs fans knows what Eriksen offers to the team and it's far more than just his passing range.
Like special favours?
 

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Technically maybe but would you see a promoted Liga 2 team putting in a Villa performance from yesterday?
Maybe not .. but I also don't think you would see a 10th placed team in the Premier League going for the throat of the league winners away from home like Betis did to Barca last season.

They'll obviously get smashed to bits trying it a lot of the time .. but I do think most mid table Spanish sides would do well in the premier league, they'd get hammered by the top six now and then but I think they'd also get the odd shock result because they play with less fear. A lot of mid/lower half PL sides play from the start on the back foot with a negative mindset and simply attempt to keep the score down, and whilst they spend plenty of money it's usually wasted.
 

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Eriksen is a top class player for sure.

Lo Celso looks like a good young player but the odds of him ever becoming as good as Eriksen are fairly low. That's not really a knock on him or a claim that it definitely won't happen, just an acknowledgement that players as good as Eriksen are rare. If Lo Celso was such a can't miss prospect that he was virtually nailed on to become as good as Eriksen, he would have been sold for 100m and lots of big clubs would have been in the bidding.
You could say the same when Eriksen signed for Spurs. We got Ozil they got Eriksen I think they got the better player.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Eriksen is a top class player for sure.

Lo Celso looks like a good young player but the odds of him ever becoming as good as Eriksen are fairly low. That's not really a knock on him or a claim that it definitely won't happen, just an acknowledgement that players as good as Eriksen are rare. If Lo Celso was such a can't miss prospect that he was virtually nailed on to become as good as Eriksen, he would have been sold for 100m and lots of big clubs would have been in the bidding.
We're going to end up paying upwards of like 55 million for Lo Celso. He's hardly some bargain basement signing, that's a serious investment.

We don't need him to be as good as Eriksen. We've brought in both Lo Celso and Ndombele to get an overall upgrade in the midfield, all we did is for Lo Celso to provide a similar source of creativity for the team.
 

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He's an exceptional player suggesting Shelvey (:lol:) could replace him is a bit ridiculous.



bigdub certainly implied it and you've got the fella above me who thinks Shelvey could have replaced him. :lol:
Never missing the chance to let a Straw Man argument get in the way of your credibility, eh? :rolleyes: