2019/20 Rivals - Spurs

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by AkaAkuma, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Oct 9, 2019

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    Ok.... we didn't utilise the players in place when they were at their peak, Poch was in charge of the team at that time...... but Poch is the man to take you forward? Hmmmmmm

    We will lose players, like we have always have, Bale, Modric etc we buy again and move on. I don't need you bumming and blowing about how much you know, or don't know. If we lose all those players, we will invest again and only time will tell how we get on, to say you know what will happen is just sheer arrogance and bordering on ignorance. I shouldn't be surprised seeing as how you tend to interact with people on here.
  2. Oct 9, 2019

    romufc Full Member

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    United is run differently to other PL clubs because we are in the stock maerket so a period of no success will impact on that which will mean the loans that the Glazers keep taking out they won't be able to due to asset value dropping. Therefore they will have to spend money and it is not like they haven't tbf. We have spent poorly and that is the clubs / managers fault.

    Once we get the right man in the job, I don't know who that is but it will change the outlook.

    Spurs wanting top 4 now will not attract players need because the wage structure is poor. City, Liverpool, United, Arsenal and Chelsea all pay more and if you are not winning or challenging, players have to be paid more in order for them to stay.

    How long do you think Spurs will keep Son and Kane happy at their wage if you don't challenge?
  3. Oct 9, 2019

    UNITED ACADEMY Full Member

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    WHAT THE FEC IS THIS HOWE thing??? Once again, you are spouting BS that I never mentioned.

    I always want Poch as my #1 to replace Ole. Play attacking football & capable to develop young players. My #2 alternative is Tuchel. Howe is just my next alternative. Nowhere near to Poch as my 1st option.

    I have said that our signings have been produced more positive than your signings in some aspect for rebuilding process. Maguire & Bissaka have performed good with us & they both have settled in quickly in the league more than yours. What proof? We have one of the best defensive record & stats at the moment. Improvement in our defensive record after signing 2 defenders.

    Again, STOP TALKING NONSENSE THAT I NEVER MENTIONED. I never say GLC won't settle. I'm talking a possibility of him whether he can settle or no because there is also no proof he can settle. While our signings have settled.

    :lol: Okay mate, you don't think Sessegnon was signed to be a future LB?
    He had been playing as a winger in his last 2 seasons with Fulham. If your plan is to make him as winger then fine by me but in my view Rose need to be replaced in upcoming years. While in the wing position you have settle in safe with Lamela, Son & Moura.
  4. Oct 9, 2019

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    As long as United are profitable, the share price wont be affected by success on the pitch, you keep making money people will want their shares. Once you get the right man in, this could be quite some time just look at Liverpool.

    We managed to do ok this window with attracting talent? Ndombele, GLC and Fernandes all agreed? The illusion that we pay "poor" wages is a bit of a red herring no we don't pay as much as United but very few teams do. How long can we keep Son and Harry, who knows, we don't even know how we will come out of this season or next? You pay massive wages, I think its the second or third highest in the world, has that investment made you the second or third best in the world?
  5. Oct 9, 2019

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    :)

    Poch plays possession football with a high press I wouldn't quite call it attacking football.

    Ndombele has played well scoring 2 goals, GLC had a great season last year but got injured, nothing to suggest he wont progress with us. I never said he wasn't signed not to be a LB I asked where you had heard Poch say he was to be one? Lamela or Moura don't play on the left naturally :houllier:. Your a funny guy. Look you rate United more which is understandable, and that Spurs need saving, you are VERY entitled to that opinion and hope you get Poch in the summer and hope he is a success. :)
  6. Oct 9, 2019

    UNITED ACADEMY Full Member

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    • Insulting another member
    :houllier: I can't believe how thick you can be.

    Don't you get it? You didn't utilise the players when they were at their peak by improving your squad. If Poch was back with better resource when he had prime Toby, Vertong, Dembele, Rose, Trippier/Walker, & your talented attackers Kane, Son & Eriksen, he could make improvement into the squad and take you forward.
  7. Oct 9, 2019

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    Of course he could *thumbs up*, he should have spent more after agreeing that Spurs had to do things differently :wenger:, we don't have the recourses of the other clubs vying for the same honours. Poch getting to positions in domestic cups where he could win only to blow it. I love Poch but he has problems with in game management and team selection, this season he seems to have developed problems with a very odd formation continually being deployed. Again you seem intent on keeping this going so by all means go for it :lol:.
  8. Oct 9, 2019

    UNITED ACADEMY Full Member

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    Yeah possession football. That worked well against Arsenal, City & Bayern. I was expecting you could win possession against Arsenal at least. :lol:

    I never say GLC won't progress with you, have I?

    I never say Poch "make statement" or "say" to make him a LB. If Sessegnon was signed to be a new LB then of course it means he "believes" he can make him to be a LB. That's why I was questioning him in my previous post, you don't think he's signed to be a left back to replace 29 yo Rose in the rebuilding process?
  9. Oct 9, 2019

    UNITED ACADEMY Full Member

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    No resource & lot of players need to be replaced. Hmmm seems like we are back again to square one. :lol:
  10. Oct 9, 2019

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    What? You said Poch was an attacking manager, I simply said he wasn't really.

    I really hope he wasn't signed as a LB.


    Square one? We don't have the ability to complete for the players if we have to bid against the likes of City and yourselves. We clearly can compete for upcoming talent like we did with Sanchez, Ndombele, GLC and tried to with Bruno..... We sign Bruno in January, that's Eriksen replaced, that leaves 2 centre backs, we have Foyth, Sanchez and young prospects, so we only need to replace 1 CB? You do know we have another LB?
  11. Oct 9, 2019

    romufc Full Member

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    We won't be profitable at mid table when we lose all our commercial deals and fans from other countries which would have an impact on the finances. At the moment we look like we are making profit because of the current commercial deals but once they expire Ed Woodward will be caught out.

    I keep repeating myself with you, I said we attract these players but the recruitment has been poor over the last 6 years. Once the board decides on a philosophy we can sign players to suit that rather than giving the managers all the choice then being left with a mis match of players.

    Is Fernandes a Spurs player? GLC is on loan.

    Yes you have got Ndombole but he hasnt shown much yet apart from that one goal.

    I don't think it will take us that long because Liverpool didnt spend money, we still will spend money.
  12. Oct 9, 2019

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    Repeat yourself? I only replied to you twice mate no need to be patronising.

    Who says your board will get a philosophy together?

    He clearly in't a player but he agreed terms so quite clearly was happy to join? it was an argument to your "we wont attract anyone". Again another salty comment. GLC is 90% done as I doubt Levy would shell out an initial fee for a loan deal. IF we make top 4 its 100%, it was structured like this so PSG couldn't get their cut.

    Ndombele has scored twice with an assist.

    There is more to football than spending money.
  13. Oct 9, 2019

    UNITED ACADEMY Full Member

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    Yeah possession football. That worked well against Arsenal, City & Bayern. I was expecting you could win possession against Arsenal at least :lol:

    Well, looks like you have just added another potential position that Spurs need to prepare for their rebuilding process. :lol:
    Looking worse than I thought from initially.

    Hey it's rebuilding process to win major trophy not just replacing of your losing players for top 4. "Ambition" ;)
  14. Oct 9, 2019

    romufc Full Member

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    Yes and in both posts you said the same thing.

    We can only hope, it is like saying who says Levy will spend money on players.. that is such a silly question tbh.

    But you didnt want to pay the fee.. I didn't mean you won't sign anyone, I meant players of a higher quality than you already have for you to improve. I guess you think Bruno and GLC are better than Erikson?

    That actually makes alot of sense, you have 10% less chance of signing him if you don't finish top 4?
  15. Oct 9, 2019

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    No idea, both definitely had better seasons to him than last season and this season for us.
  16. Oct 10, 2019

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    The only "ITK" source I trust tweeted yesterday that Poch is nowhere near the exit door and will be backed to turn the team around. Again I don't take notice of ANY one else on twitter but this guy doesn't tweet much but when he does its usually correct.
  17. Oct 10, 2019

    Leftback99 Full Member

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    There's no way Spurs will sack him, it would cost too much. Its the same with us, I highly doubt we'll pay off another manager only a few months after an £18m hit to profits paying off Mourinho.
  18. Oct 10, 2019

    caid Full Member

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    Usually you expect a manager to hang around at a club where he's blatantly finished to get the contract pay out. And it always works, I can't remember the last time a manager stepped down, Zidane I guess but that felt pretty unique. I'm not sure that's a good plan with Levy or Spurs. I dont think Pochettino is going anywhere unless he quits and I think he wants to move on, probably has for a while.
  19. Oct 14, 2019 at 18:51

    Irrational. Full Member

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    They've just re-signed Vorm until the end of the season.
  20. Oct 15, 2019 at 12:24

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    Yeah we had no 3rd choice keeper.
  21. Oct 15, 2019 at 12:26

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    :lol: This post made me laugh quite a bit as its so ironic.
  22. Oct 15, 2019 at 12:48

    Johan07 Full Member

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    I am getting really tired of seeming like I am defending the Glazers, but they have not taken out any loans since the LBO. Of relevance at least and if you dont count the refinancing in 2010 which of course theoretically was "taking out new loans"; but to the clubs absolute benefit.
    After the refinancing in 2010 and the IPO a couple of years later our gross debt has stayed practically the same though. And it will not change anytime soon. Under any owner.
    Our net debt has decreased constantly since then because the owners have chosen to let the club keep the profits as cash in hand instead of taking them out as dividends. Which they very well could have btw. And of course still can if they choose too.
    Sorry Spurs-fans, this got a bit off topic I just realised.
  23. Oct 15, 2019 at 13:01

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    Nah I like hearing about it, are they paying off capital or just interest too?
  24. Oct 15, 2019 at 13:23

    Johan07 Full Member

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    They are not paying off capital (amortising) or taking up new loans (which was what was wrong with what the original poster wrote) and this has been the case for like forever now. Since 2010 basically.
    The clubs gross debt is just below 500m and will stay there for the foreseeable future; barring a total collapse of the British economy that would skyrocket interest rates.
    For that debt we basically pay 20m per year in interests rates. Thats about it. When you have a wage bill of 600m plus as we do; thats really not a big sum tbh.
    To compare it with you guys; I dont see Levy amortising any of the stadium debt anytime soon. Maybe refinancing on better terms to bring down the yearly interest if he can, but you will be able to carry 30m of interest payments per year or whatever, no problem. So you will prob be carrying that debt like we have, and it will be workable.
    He will maximise the turnover now from the new stadium and then plainly sell or at least go public in a year or two. Thats my take on the Spurs financial situation.
  25. Oct 15, 2019 at 13:33

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    Pretty much how I see it, the long term debt isn't as crippling as people would it out, I feel there was a lack of spending for the last 2 seasons as the stadium over ran, Brexit happened and we ended up spending more than we first thought. Levy and ENIC in my opinion have taken the club as far as a finance company can, they have left a state of the art stadium, naming rights still to be sold and the possibility of an NFL franchise its perfectly set to be sold with ENIC making a tidy profit. Still would love Joe Lewis to think to himself I wanna invest (personally) hard now but doubt he will.
  26. Oct 15, 2019 at 13:46

    romufc Full Member

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    https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...all-news/man-utd-glazers-news-latest-16648904

    Using Manutd as Collateral... that to me and I am no financial specialist so sorry If I am misreading but taking a loan out and using manutd as collateral cannot be be good for the club.

    Secondly, obviously the net debt has to decrease over the years because it is a loan which has to be paid back.

    Lastly, They do not need to take the dividends due to tax purposes, and leaving it in the club and not investing in it is the biggest concern for the fans.

    What has been done to improve training facilities, Old Trafford?not just investing in players.

    The reason the debt is reducing is because of the new TV deals, sponsorship deals etc which means the club keeps having greater turnover, yet in comparison to other clubs we are not spending that much.
  27. Oct 15, 2019 at 13:57

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    The loans aren't like personal loans, they are more like our own mortgages. They can choose to simply service the debt and not pay any capital off. As for taking out loans in United's name, its not going to affect United unless they go bust and then the banks will come looking for their money back, basically will be looking at United as a club.

    Your turnover is decreasing proportionally is it not?
  28. Oct 15, 2019 at 14:00

    Johan07 Full Member

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    No, you misunderstand what "net debt" is.
    Its gross debt minus whatever we currently have in cash at hand. Which is a lot at the moment. The latter can change though. Which will affect net debt.
    So net debt will decrease over time if we make profit yearly and dont distribute all of it to the owners. Which we have not, at least not significantly. Which is what has happened.
    A change in "net debt" has nothing to do with paying back debt, its an accounting term to describe the relation between gross debt and cash. So net debt can change from year to year without any debt being repaid because how much cash the club chooses to keep in its coffers.
    As I wrote earlier: we have not repaid any gross debt since the IPO and it will not change anytime soon either. We will carry this 500m gross debt pretty much forever regardless of the owner, and it will cost us a tax-deductable 20m per year. Its far from the end of the world and its why a new owner will not pay off that debt either.
  29. Oct 15, 2019 at 14:05

    romufc Full Member

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    Actually, if the loans were taken out by Manchester United to service the loan then it would be in the media because it is in the market so it would be public knowledge. The fact that the loan was taken out by one of the siblings who has never been to Old Trafford raises questions. Also, if you are going to service a loan, you take one loan out not 2 separate loans in the space of couple months.

    I agree it would be an interest only loan for United.

    Proportionally to? we just announced record turnover again, and £50m profit that too with us having the biggest wage bill, £20m to get rid of Jose and all the transfers.

    We clearly have the money to spend on Manchester United but the owners are not willing to spend much. What they are doing is spending the bare minimum to keep fans satisfied for as long as possible which is why it is having such a detrimental effect on the club.

    If they were serious, we could have spend £200m this summer and £50-80m next.. as things stand now we have to spend another £150m minimum next summer.
  30. Oct 15, 2019 at 14:11

    romufc Full Member

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    I understand everything you say but the fact that the money we are spending is not coming from the owners, it is coming from Manutd football club.

    Other clubs have the owners pumping money into the football club. The glazers don't need to take money out as profit, instead they decide to take a loan out with United being it's collateral.

    What issue I have is there is no investment into the club
  31. Oct 15, 2019 at 14:27

    Johan07 Full Member

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    I have said this so many a times: As much I understand what fans are feeling there is no difference between the "clubs money" and the "owners money".
    Its just a romantic notion.
    That ship sailed 2003, even if it was not even a ship back then.
    Like it or not United is the Glazers house/business now.
    There is no difference between "their money" and "the clubs". And they will treat it as such. As would/will another owner. Its just a fact of life. United stopped being a football club and became a business a long time before the Glazers.
    And if you have time I would suggest to you to go into takeovers of PL-clubs since 2000 and get back to me about which owners have been "pumping money" into their clubs. And compare it to the multiple, multiple complete disasters that have been the real fact of takeovers of PL-clubs under 20 years after the millennium even if the PL-economy has skyrocketed since then.
    There are three successful takeovers since Leeds was relegated in 2003: Its us, Abramovich and now I guess I would have to count FSG and Liverpool as well. But they havent put money into the club. They took over a bankrupt club for a very small fee.
    We should not rewrite history and also be very careful what we wish for.
    EDIT
    I did not include City because they are a cheating club with corrupt and despicable owners.
  32. Oct 15, 2019 at 14:36

    romufc Full Member

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    I am not disputing that, I couldn't care who owns the club as long as the right amount of investment is there.

    Not only the investment side, I would like to see a structure which the owners have failed to put in place. We can look at smaller club takeovers all we like but there is no point in the comparison.

    It is like looking at comparison of a take over of Apple / Microsoft compared to a small phone company.. We are a footballing giant with huge global presence so any take over of sort will be under massive scrutiny.

    When you are owners of one of the biggest clubs, you ensure the management is one of the best in the world too.

    We are a company with no direction, no plan, that is my worry about these owners as well as the investment.
  33. Oct 15, 2019 at 14:46

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    Watching Trippier for England lately I've got this overwhelming urge to sit Daniel Levy and Pochettino in a room and lock it until they give me a decent answer to why the club felt it was a good idea to sell our first choice right back, who yes was having a poor season but was still clearly the best option, and bring in nobody as a replacement. Genuinely one of the most bonkers transfer decisions I can remember us making, and everybody from your casual fan to your match goer knew right back was going to be an issue this season as a result.

    Pure fecking incompetence. Winds me the hell up.
  34. Oct 15, 2019 at 14:57

    Johan07 Full Member

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    Might have been that there were other players that they rather would have got rid of but just did not want to/refused to leave and wanted to see out their contracts instead. I think most United fans can understand that given our position. And that you had to get rid of someone or sometwo to defend new signings wage-wise.
  35. Oct 15, 2019 at 15:13

    Klopper76 "Did you see Fabinho against Red Star & Cardiff?"

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    I didn't really understand that one tbh. Trippier is a superior player to Aurier and who's the other option, Walker-Peters?

    Did Trippier force it at all?
  36. Oct 15, 2019 at 15:16

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    He wasn't happy at the club, but apparently he wanted to speak to Poch and wouldn't have forced a move, but the club didn't show any interest in keeping him.

    Simeone appears to have done really well with him this season too. Which makes me think about a few players in the squad who are under performing, especially when they look better in an England shirt.
  37. Oct 15, 2019 at 15:18

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    We should never have gotten rid if it was a case of not being able to replace him if he left. And I'd honestly rather have not signed Lo Celso if it meant not replacing the best right back at the club.

    Aurier is a disaster and KWP is, in my opinion, never going to be good enough to start for a top six club. The ability just isn't there.
  38. Oct 15, 2019 at 15:21

    balaks Full Member

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    Have you forgotten just how pathetic Trippier was for us last season? He was an absolute disaster and was rightly booted out of the club. We should have bought a replacement yes but I'm 100% behind the decision to get rid of him, he was utterly hopeless for us.

    It appears that Poch wanted to have Foyth step in as right back and we have been unlucky with his injury forcing to play that fecking clown Aurier and KWP who just isn't good enough either.
  39. Oct 15, 2019 at 15:23

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    There was talk of a spat with Toby?
  40. Oct 15, 2019 at 15:23

    balaks Full Member

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    Because he was utterly shite and blamed everybody else in the side for him gifting multiple goals in matches throughout the season which wound everybody up. He simply had to go.