2019/20 Rivals - Spurs

balaks

Full Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
8,252
Location
Northern Ireland
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
I agree, that is why Poch wanted some changes, that Levy refused to give him. Poch player’s performance last season reminded me of Sir Alex players performance during his last season at United.Big changes were needed the next season if they were to remain competitive but Moyes refused to make those changes and Poch was restricted/setback from making those changes. This team is the same as last season team and it is still a surprise how Poch got champions league final and top four with it.
Poch was finished at the club and had totally lost the players. Jose has come in and has a massive job to do - the squad needs a total change. I think the next 3 or 4 windows are going to be very busy.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
11,834
Poch was finished at the club and had totally lost the players. Jose has come in and has a massive job to do - the squad needs a total change. I think the next 3 or 4 windows are going to be very busy.
I think you should have let Poch rebuild, i wouldn't trust Jose with money.
 

Amadaeus

Pochettino's mother (MMM BBC)
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
6,932
Location
Amongst footballing managerial 'Gods'
Supports
Mauricio Pochettino
Poch was finished at the club and had totally lost the players. Jose has come in and has a massive job to do - the squad needs a total change. I think the next 3 or 4 windows are going to be very busy.
I don’t believe he lost the players. He may have lost some but not all. The players took him out to dinner to show him their support. If you want to see a manager that lost the players, you just need to see Mourinho last season at United :lol:.

Poch knew which players needed to be removed and he may have lost support of those players. Looking at how Spurs has conceded more goals since Mourinho took over than any other team, it is to no surprise, Pochettino was right. Anyway, looking at the progressive beautiful football, Pochettino built at Spurs the past five years, I would rather have him do the rebuilding. Mourinho will favor hard men and look past technical gifted players. As a fan of beautiful football, I wouldn’t want that type of manager doing any rebuilding for my club.
 

MackRobinson

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Messages
2,253
Location
Terminal D
Supports
Football
I'm a huge critic of Mourinho, but I thought his tactics were sound (frustrate Liverpool in the first half and count on them being tired in the second half given the number of fixtures they have played). I thought his post-match interview was even better, and he didn't throw anyone under the bus or make any absurd excuses. I think his success will depend primarily on midfield recruitment more than anything else. He needs to get aggressive midfielders who are good on the ball and willing to put in a shift. Easier said than done though.
 

Kag

Full Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
15,651
Location
United Kingdom
Spurs are finished as rivals. The team that made them so likeable to the neutral has reached its peak. I think it reached its peak prior to last season, too. Their cup run was somewhat fortunate and their league form was a truer reflection of the team.

Walker and Rose are either gone or done. Their centre halves aren’t quite the same as they were. Lloris was wobbling prior to the injury. Eriksen looks to be on his way out and they failed to effectively replace Dembele, who was brilliant in midfield for them. Kane and Alli remain, but for how long?

Spurs are the victim of their own success, in truth. Pochettino had them punching well above their weight and now he’s gone. Replaced by a destructive manager that will need resources to change the team to suit. He had resources in his last job, too, and we all know what good he did with them.

In the transfer market, Levy was given an option to stick or twist. He decided to stick; a decision all involved will come to regret. At one point, they were only a player or two from really winning something. Oh, well...
 

Alabaster Codify7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
5,920
Location
Wales
The Jose honeymoon was even shorter than imaginable. I thought they'd win a trophy this season, in jammy fashion, but that's not happening now! Jose might be gone by the summer at this rate!
 

Haddock

Full Member
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
469
He won't actively discourage his team to play football, but to me he's a negative and reactionary coach and that just isn't enough anymore, as in the past decade teams have vastly improved in terms of pressing and defensive cohesion. And thus it needs at least a bit of positivity.
His tactics were prehistoric v Liverpool. It's so reactive its like a parody of Mourinho. The tactics were eerily similar to the one he used against Liverpool at Old Trafford in 2018. The difference is we no Pogba and Matic, McT and Mata in midfield. Spurs had Eriksen and Alli.

Just bypassing the midfield by hitting long balls to Moura who had to fend off Gomes who towers over him. Every chance they had barring Lo Celso's was a result of a liverpool mistake. His style now depends totally on players capitalising on the one chance available in a game. That's why he needs established talent and won't bother with young players who are erratic. So yes if Son and GLC scored that he'd be a genius but it's a very very fine game. Rashford took both his chances in 2018 but Spurs players as usual bottled it.

The sad part is that once spurs actually started to play a bit in the latter stages Liverpool looked there for the taking.
 

MDFC Manager

Full Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
16,581
He won't actively discourage his team to play football, but to me he's a negative and reactionary coach and that just isn't enough anymore, as in the past decade teams have vastly improved in terms of pressing and defensive cohesion. And thus it needs at least a bit of positivity.
Absolutely spot on.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
17,079
Absolutely spot on.
Na, the league has been as bad as it has been for a long time. Outside of Liverpool and City, every side is more than beatable.
Theres a lot of snap judgements here based on what they want to happen rather than proper assesment of the task he has to do.
If anything, EPL football outside of the top 2 has moved back towards Joses style. Thats why its shit to watch.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
7,187
Location
Germany
Na, the league has been as bad as it has been for a long time. Outside of Liverpool and City, every side is more than beatable.
Theres a lot of snap judgements here based on what they want to happen rather than proper assesment of the task he has to do.
If anything, EPL football outside of the top 2 has moved back towards Joses style. Thats why its shit to watch.
I was talking about how football developed over the past decade, not just recently and I didn't say every team became more attacking, I said teams as a whole became better at transitions and defending (reacting quicker to turnovers, closing spaces a lot quicker, "gegenpressing" as a concept in general), requiring coaches to come up with more sophisticated attacking plans if they want to break them reliably. I think this is why Mourinho has fallen off a cliff since his Madrid days.
 

balaks

Full Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
8,252
Location
Northern Ireland
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
Spurs are finished as rivals. The team that made them so likeable to the neutral has reached its peak. I think it reached its peak prior to last season, too. Their cup run was somewhat fortunate and their league form was a truer reflection of the team.

Walker and Rose are either gone or done. Their centre halves aren’t quite the same as they were. Lloris was wobbling prior to the injury. Eriksen looks to be on his way out and they failed to effectively replace Dembele, who was brilliant in midfield for them. Kane and Alli remain, but for how long?

Spurs are the victim of their own success, in truth. Pochettino had them punching well above their weight and now he’s gone. Replaced by a destructive manager that will need resources to change the team to suit. He had resources in his last job, too, and we all know what good he did with them.

In the transfer market, Levy was given an option to stick or twist. He decided to stick; a decision all involved will come to regret. At one point, they were only a player or two from really winning something. Oh, well...
We are about as good as you lot at the moment, how we are finished as rivals is beyond me. We are not rivals to City or Liverpool sure, but Utd? Yeah we are.
 

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Staff
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
47,658
6 Wins
1 Draw
4 Losses
55% Win Rate
23 Goals Scored
18 Conceded
1 Clean Sheet

Result​
Competition​
Date​
Home​
Score​
Away​
W​
EPL​
23/11/2019​
West Ham​
2 : 3​
Tottenham​
W​
UCL​
26/11/2019​
Tottenham​
4 : 2​
Olympiacos​
W​
EPL​
30/11/2019​
Tottenham​
3 : 2​
Bournemouth​
L​
EPL​
04/12/2019​
Manchester United​
2 : 1​
Tottenham​
W​
EPL​
07/12/2019​
Tottenham​
5 : 0​
Burnley​
L​
UCL​
11/12/2019​
Bayern Munich​
3 : 1​
Tottenham​
W​
EPL​
15/12/2019​
Wolverhampton Wanderers​
1 : 2​
Tottenham​
L​
EPL​
22/12/2019​
Tottenham​
0 : 2​
Chelsea​
W​
EPL​
26/12/2019​
Tottenham​
2 : 1​
Brighton​
D​
EPL​
28/12/2019​
Norwich​
2 : 2​
Tottenham​
L​
EPL​
01/01/2020​
Southampton​
1 : 0​
Tottenham​
Quiet a mediocre record by "Master tactician". He's finished as a manager. Only the Wolves result was the impressive one, the rest were expected.
 

RedSky

likes to kick 10-year-olds
Scout
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
63,200
Location
Hereford FC (Soccermanager)
6 Wins
2 Draw
5 Losses
46% Win Rate
24 Goals Scored
20 Conceded
1 Clean Sheet

Result​
Competition​
Date​
Home​
Score​
Away​
W​
Premier League
23/11/2019​
West Ham​
2 : 3​
Tottenham​
W​
Champions League​
26/11/2019​
Tottenham​
4 : 2​
Olympiacos​
W​
Premier League
30/11/2019​
Tottenham​
3 : 2​
Bournemouth​
L​
Premier League
04/12/2019​
Manchester United​
2 : 1​
Tottenham​
W​
Premier League
07/12/2019​
Tottenham​
5 : 0​
Burnley​
L​
Champions League
11/12/2019​
Bayern Munich​
3 : 1​
Tottenham​
W​
Premier League
15/12/2019​
Wolves​
1 : 2​
Tottenham​
L​
Premier League
22/12/2019​
Tottenham​
0 : 2​
Chelsea​
W​
Premier League
26/12/2019​
Tottenham​
2 : 1​
Brighton​
D​
Premier League
28/12/2019​
Norwich​
2 : 2​
Tottenham​
L​
Premier League​
01/01/2020​
Southampton​
1 : 0​
Tottenham​
D​
FA Cup05/01/2020
Middlesbrough​
1 : 1​
Tottenham​
L​
Premier League11/01/2020
Tottenham​
0 : 1​
Liverpool​
 

RedSky

likes to kick 10-year-olds
Scout
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
63,200
Location
Hereford FC (Soccermanager)
Quiet a mediocre record by "Master tactician". He's finished as a manager. Only the Wolves result was the impressive one, the rest were expected.
1 win in his last 5 games, They're playing Watford next, not an easy game given they're on a run of good form lately.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
17,079
I was talking about how football developed over the past decade, not just recently and I didn't say every team became more attacking, I said teams as a whole became better at transitions and defending (reacting quicker to turnovers, closing spaces a lot quicker, "gegenpressing" as a concept in general), requiring coaches to come up with more sophisticated attacking plans if they want to break them reliably. I think this is why Mourinho has fallen off a cliff since his Madrid days.
But Jose has won a few things over the last decade.
What i think has changed is the man management style and his failure to adapt. He doesnt have players willing to die for him anymore and he doesnt seem to be able to address that.
As far as tactics goes, this Liverpool side is just a modern version of his first Chelsea side. Teams wet dreams is his Madrid side that won La Liga with how they defend and transition.
Football really hasnt moved on too much. Klopp has proven that coupled with tika taka becoming less and less relevent to elite football it shows Joses style has a place.
Im gonna say it, football is becoming more and more boring these days. Teams are abandoing the individual for the collective and that has been Joses way since day 1
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
9,780
Supports
Aston Villa
They will lose at Watford. They were incredibly lucky to win at Wolves aswell.

Think that would be a worry for any Spurs fan, their away form hasn't been improved much since the change. Remember Poch had Leicester, Man. City, Arsenal and Liverpool as four of his first five away games which really messed up their season.
 

manc4red

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
105
I still do not truly understand the decision to appoint Mourinho. Yes I get it that Levy wants trophies and Mourinho wants to rebuild himself. However, Mourinho likes to spend and Levy doesn’t spend the way Mourinho wants. Also Mourinho goes public with things while Levy likes to keep things in house.

I see this as a train crash waiting to happen. If Mourinho makes it past two/three years, I would be shocked
 

Dolf

Full Member
Joined
May 27, 2016
Messages
2,326
Location
Amsterdam
So no Pochettino, no Harry Kane and soon no Eriksen. Pretty much everything they could boast about is gone :lol:. Mourinho better pull something special here or they will slip back into mediocrity.
 

balaks

Full Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
8,252
Location
Northern Ireland
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
So no Pochettino, no Harry Kane and soon no Eriksen. Pretty much everything they could boast about is gone :lol:. Mourinho better pull something special here or they will slip back into mediocrity.
Let's at least wait till the end of at least one transfer window before we right him off completely shall we? I know everybody here wants him to fail but let's not be ridiculous.
 

Dolf

Full Member
Joined
May 27, 2016
Messages
2,326
Location
Amsterdam
Let's at least wait till the end of at least one transfer window before we right him off completely shall we? I know everybody here wants him to fail but let's not be ridiculous.
I'm not writing off Mourinho, i'm writing off your club.
 

Random Task

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
18,529
Location
Chester
Let's at least wait till the end of at least one transfer window before we right him off completely shall we? I know everybody here wants him to fail but let's not be ridiculous.
If, as you suggest, the Spurs squad requires a complete overhaul to be competitive again, that would mean not only relying on Jose to identify the correct targets, but also Levy to supply him with the funds to do so.

Given Joses most recent transfer market excursions as manager of United, I wouldn't trust him with a complete rebuild. Think you should have stuck with Poch despite the rumours that he lost the entire squad, which I find difficult to believe.
 
Last edited:

balaks

Full Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
8,252
Location
Northern Ireland
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
If, as you suggest, the Spurs squad requires a complete overhaul to be competitive again, that would mean not only relying on Jose to identify the correct targets, but also Levy to supply him with the funds to do so.

Given Joses most recent transfer market excursions as manager of United, I wouldn't trust him with a complete rebuild. Think you should have stuck with Poch despite the rumours that he lost the entire squad, which I find difficult to believe.
I think we do require significant investment and I'd guess so does Jose. Time will tell what happens but we can only really judge things once the summer window closes as I don't think the January window will be enough. I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say it's been a disaster if it goes that way but right now it's far to early to know anything.

All I can do on is listen to what a few very well respected and connected 'in the know' folk have been saying on the internet about Poch - clearly something was not right in the year leading up to him leaving.
 

Scroto Baggins

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2017
Messages
1,448
Supports
Newcastle Jets
I'm not writing off Mourinho, i'm writing off your club.
I agree I Dont see them making top four this season, bit of a transition year for Spurs, changing of the guard so to speak. Wanyama, Rose, Vertonghen, Eriksen all potentially going. And some long term injuries to key players, Kane, Sissoko. But opportunities for young players to cement a place in the starting 11 under a new manager.

Midfield is still up in the air with spots available. Don't think any of Spurs midfield has looked irreplaceable in the games I have seen. Ndombele has looked good but keeps getting injured. Just is not up to the fitness level required for the prem.
 

giorno

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
15,483
Supports
Real Madrid
I think you should have let Poch rebuild, i wouldn't trust Jose with money.
Rebuild from where, the Championship? I don't think people on here realize quite how bad things had gotten for spurs before Mou came in

They were worse than chelsea in mou's final season
 

giorno

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
15,483
Supports
Real Madrid
Im gonna say it, football is becoming more and more boring these days. Teams are abandoing the individual for the collective and that has been Joses way since day 1
On the contrary, José has always relied on having 2-3 exceptional individuals capable of making the difference in attack. It's a big reason why his second stint at chelsea and then united were so clearly below everything that came before with him
If, as you suggest, the Spurs squad requires a complete overhaul to be competitive again, that would mean not only relying on Jose to identify the correct targets, but also Levy to supply him with the funds to do so.
I'd imagine Spurs have their own people to identify targets and won't have to rely on mourinho
 

Bobski

Full Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Messages
3,465
It is strange, heard a lot from Mourinho fans that the Spurs squad is awful but not too long ago, coincidentally when Mou was at Utd, it was apparently significantly better than what Utd have.
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
9,780
Supports
Aston Villa
Rebuild from where, the Championship? I don't think people on here realize quite how bad things had gotten for spurs before Mou came in

They were worse than chelsea in mou's final season
It wasn't great but they still beat Palace 4-0, Southampton 2-1, Villa 3-1 and 1-1 with Sheffield United so their home form was solid if unspectacular. They probably would've won at Everton aswell but for Son red card.

They had 3 more points than Chelsea did after 12 games in 15/16. Given their alright home form I don't see why Poch wouldn't have beaten Burnley or Bournemouth who Mourinho had first up for his home games. They also beat Red Star comfortably home and away in CL who are of that standard.

Think just saying Spurs would be in serious relegation trouble now is like the people saying Man. United were going to be in relegation danger like on the main forum in October/November. Miles clear now with a decent xmas period.

Big thing for me is Mourinho is messing up quite an easy away run so far. Poch had Man. City, Arsenal, Leicester and Liverpool as four of his six away fixtures this season so with their issues that pretty much killed any sort of momentum they'd get from a good home result.
 

GlastonSpur

Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
15,447
Supports
Spurs
If, as you suggest, the Spurs squad requires a complete overhaul to be competitive again, that would mean not only relying on Jose to identify the correct targets, but also Levy to supply him with the funds to do so.

Given Joses most recent transfer market excursions as manager of United, I wouldn't trust him with a complete rebuild. Think you should have stuck with Poch despite the rumours that he lost the entire squad, which I find difficult to believe.
I myself don't think we need a complete overhaul - we just need to add/replace two or three players.

A midfield 3 of Ndombele, Lo Celso and Sissoko or Winks will be strong, once the two new guys settle in more.

Kane, Son and Moura up front is formidable.

Tanganga looks to be a very good prospect for our RB (or a CB) slot. Lloris and Alderweireld are good for a season or two yet, as will Vertonghen if he stays. And Sessegnon can be slowly eased into our LB slot.

And then we have Davies, Lamela, Sanchez, Gazzaniga, Gelson Fernandes, Dier and more - all good players for at least squad rotation.
 

balaks

Full Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
8,252
Location
Northern Ireland
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
I myself don't think we need a complete overhaul - we just need to add/replace two or three players.

A midfield 3 of Ndombele, Lo Celso and Sissoko or Winks will be strong, once the two new guys settle in more.

Kane, Son and Moura up front is formidable.

Tanganga looks to be a very good prospect for our RB (or a CB) slot. Lloris and Alderweireld are good for a season or two yet, as will Vertonghen if he stays. And Sessegnon can be slowly eased into our LB slot.

And then we have Davies, Lamela, Sanchez, Gazzaniga, Gelson Fernandes, Dier and more - all good players for at least squad rotation.
Although I agree with most of this we can't deny that the squad has needed refreshing in a number of key areas for a couple of years and now we are in all sorts of bother as a result. I'm mainly thinking about the defensive midfield position, both full-backs (though I take on board we have Sessegnon and potentially now Tanganga who looks superb), a plan to replace Eriksen and a long needed proper back-up/support for Kane. We are possibly not that far off with Tanganga coming out of nowhere and our new midfield signing but we have suffered greatly this year because of a lack of forward planning and signings prior to this.
 

giorno

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
15,483
Supports
Real Madrid
It wasn't great but they still beat Palace 4-0, Southampton 2-1, Villa 3-1 and 1-1 with Sheffield United so their home form was solid if unspectacular. They probably would've won at Everton aswell but for Son red card.

They had 3 more points than Chelsea did after 12 games in 15/16. Given their alright home form I don't see why Poch wouldn't have beaten Burnley or Bournemouth who Mourinho had first up for his home games. They also beat Red Star comfortably home and away in CL who are of that standard.

Think just saying Spurs would be in serious relegation trouble now is like the people saying Man. United were going to be in relegation danger like on the main forum in October/November. Miles clear now with a decent xmas period.

Big thing for me is Mourinho is messing up quite an easy away run so far. Poch had Man. City, Arsenal, Leicester and Liverpool as four of his six away fixtures this season so with their issues that pretty much killed any sort of momentum they'd get from a good home result.
They won 3 games out of 12 in the league. They were actually lucky to get away with so many draws in games they should have lost. Their performances were actual relegation stuff. Their last 5 games were 3D 2L and it could very easily have been 5L

Spurs have been MASSIVELY better since Mourinho took over. They that bad before


A midfield 3 of Ndombele, Lo Celso and Sissoko or Winks will be strong, once the two new guys settle in more.
Winks is obsolete and really kind of pointless in a midfield with Ndombele and Lo Celso. Get an actual, good DM instead
 

Random Task

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
18,529
Location
Chester
On the contrary, José has always relied on having 2-3 exceptional individuals capable of making the difference in attack. It's a big reason why his second stint at chelsea and then united were so clearly below everything that came before with him

I'd imagine Spurs have their own people to identify targets and won't have to rely on mourinho
I'm not entirely sure how Spurs go about their transfer business, but I'd expect Mourinho to have some input on incoming transfers being the man he is.
 

balaks

Full Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
8,252
Location
Northern Ireland
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
I'm not entirely sure how Spurs go about their transfer business, but I'd expect Mourinho to have some input on incoming transfers being the man he is.
I think it Jose creates a list of people he would like and Levy, etc. then do what they can to get the number 1 targets, if unsuccessful they go to the backup identified, etc. Jose might not know or have input into exactly which players on the list are signed but he will have been the one who identified them as targets. That's my understanding.
 

giorno

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
15,483
Supports
Real Madrid
I'm not entirely sure how Spurs go about their transfer business, but I'd expect Mourinho to have some input on incoming transfers being the man he is.
That's normal, but his input would be more likely the "i need a midfielder" type rather than "sign this player"