The gameplan has so far consisted mainly of long balls and Alderweireld's diagonals. Don't know what games have you been watching mate.
2019/20 Rivals - Spurs | Bergwijn out for the remainder of the season
- Thread starter AkaAkuma
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It really hasn’t and I’ve watched all games, he plays a mix of it all, which games has he consistently played long ball? I mean who too much exactly the only target man we have is Kane and he’s out. What games you referring to?
The 2 goals against City weren’t long balls... or which ones did you see?
I've seen almost every one. Spurs had like 20% posession yesterday, so the goals don't even matter because nothing that happened came after some pattern of play. If you watch the games against Watford/Liverpool/City, it can be seen that most of the attacks come after winning the second ball from a long pass.
Although I agree he has been much better than Poch this season, the gameplan doesn't really suggest any attacking football, but more pragmatic, adapted to the opposition. The only games I thought you really dominated since Mourinho has came in, was the second half against Norwich and against Middlesbrough at home.
I honestly don't give a crap if we play long balls and park the bus under Mourinho so long as we win games and win trophies. That said I think the football will improve after a summer and a pre-season to integrate some ideas and playstyle. As is there hasn't really been a whole heck of a lot of practice time for the time and that's not going to change soon with games coming thick and fast.
This is a temporary marriage between Spurs and Mourinho - I think everyone realizes this.
Getting the whole "great team but no trophies" monkey off our back is going to do great things for the team. Then the big question will be if we can properly bring in a good manager when Jose is off.
This is a temporary marriage between Spurs and Mourinho - I think everyone realizes this.
Getting the whole "great team but no trophies" monkey off our back is going to do great things for the team. Then the big question will be if we can properly bring in a good manager when Jose is off.
I see long ball as hoofing the ball up and waiting for a second phase. He’s playing counter attacking tactics and really he hasn’t been parking the bus as quite frankly when he took over our defence has been poor and he still tried to play it out, and mistakes being made. I’ve watched everyone and not once did I think to myself it was punt and hope. Look at the counter where Winks got fouled was a quick break. No long ball, simply cause we have no target. I honestly wouldn’t care if it was, but it’s not. When I said Jose had changed his mo was more the fact he is still playing the youth.
To be honest our best performance has been against Southampton in the FA cup. Even though it was a draw.
I dunno, I think Jose and Levy see this as a rebuild and I don’t see where Jose goes after us unless he is extremely successful, that’s what I worry about the most. If Jose leaves us anytime soon it’s because either he falls out with Levy or he fails miserably. If he wins us a trophy yeah it’s great for us, but won’t do much for Jose, as he does that everywhere. I think he’s here to show he is still relevant, only time will tell.
We play like that against the very top teams such as Liverpool and now City - if we get results then I'm happy. If we play like this against mid-table/lower sides well I wouldnt be happy, but that isn't the case. The team right now is not what it will be in a years time - I have no doubt about that. Jose needs time to get the team playing the way he wants and he needs the right players in the squad to do it. Right now he is playing in a way that is making us better defensively and hoping to hit teams on the break. It's working fine and plays to the strengths of the players we have available.
Been really impressed with Tanganga, only 20 and seems to have worked his way right into a starting position. He is playing at LB when he is more a RB, have a feeling this kid could develop into a top player.
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With Jose it is all about winning and his ego. He has lost neither and if anything these are even stronger after failing at OT.
He has a point to prove both to others as well as himself.
And he knows that this is really his last opportunity.
I believe that he will be successful because he knows that he has to be.
But with Jose it is never a straight road and there will be bumps. It is how he reacts that will determine his and Tottenham success.
Agree with all of this and I am not under any illusions that this could go pear shaped. I don't think he or Levy are stupid enough to go into this with their eyes closed.
I keep reminding people that with a very average squad, he got United to a 2nd place finish and 81 points in his second season.
That was a terrific achievement and Jose rated it as one of his best. But he was clearly not happy and we know what happened.
It is all about keeping him happy so he can concentrate all his talent and skills on success. And the players will have to get used to working his way.
He is a bit older and hopefully a bit wiser now.
I will be honest I couldn't stand the guy, but his personality is infectious, its a case of yes he is a cnut but he is our cnut.
Think they'd be forth, a whole massive three points ahead of us!!
He hasn't exactly lit the place on fire, merely steadied the ship slightly.
But when he took over they were in 14th and 2 points behind us.
When Mou took over Spurs were averaging 1.16 ppg from 12 games this season. If you include the second half of last season, it's similar. Since then they've averaged 1.77 ppg. Over a season that's over a 20 point gap. So whilst it's not an incredible transformation, it's pretty decent.
Last season Spurs finished 5 points ahead of Utd. So for a 5 point turnaround to occur in 13 games is actually good, give the gap was only 5 points after 38 games last season.
His results have been ok, but feck me, they have been bloody horrid to watch. He has Mourinho'd them good and proper. Had City not been a shambles the weekend missing chances galore, they would have beaten them no problem.
Right now results are all that matters.
Most def. Lets see if you feel the same when he's playing this stuff next season. He's washed up.
And he will get Spurs into the champions league even if he has to play ugly.
He always looks so calm and collected. He handled Mahrez/Sterling superbly well and that's while playing LB which really shouldn't be his position.
At worst I think he'll be a very solid defensive RB in the mould of AWB.
At best I'm hoping he can be a stalwart CB for us in the future.
Again. I don't speak for all Spurs fans but if he's getting the results I really don't mind.
Plus I do think the football will look a lot better after everyone actually gets a preseason to gel and get the ideas in.
I can only base my opinion on having watched his reign with us, which had some good moments but was largely overshadowed by utterly terrible football, amongst other things. The day his sacking was announced, I was genuinely delighted. Unfortunately our mess of a club made yet another tragic appointment.
I guess he could somehow manage to get some of his old swagger back and make Spurs a good outfit. I mean, I personally don't see it happening but a-lot will depend on who he signs/if he gets the players he wants. There's more chance of him being a success than Ole suddenly becoming a competent manager, though.
Correct.
That's going to be the problem. The more his ideas get in, the worse the football becomes.
I like the enthusiasm you guys are showing for Moanrinho. Enjoy this season and possibly next as I think it's your best chance to win a trophy under him. It'll not be a major trophy, probably the League Cup or maybe FA Cup. Come the start of the 2021 season he'll be back moaning about how he couldn't sign a 45 year old for £100 million, how Harry Kanes a negative influence in the dressing room and how the tea lady can't make a decent cup of tea to save her fecking life!
We will worry about that in 2021
A period when we have had our three best players injured, granted they are missing Kane, but we are missing our top midfielder performers and our top goalscorer.
Other than beating City, i don't really think they have had a result that you wouldn't of expected them to, especially considering most people on here seem to think they have a much better squad then United.
I watched the Spurs vs City game and thought the tactics and team selection by Jose were spot on. Few long balls other than clearances, of which there were a lot, look to sit deep and hit on the counter. The selection of Bergwijn over Lamela is a clear intent of the game plan. Lamela brings a lot more aggression and hard pressing to the pitch but Bergwijn brings more direct pace. Son, Moura and Bergwijn all have enough pace to worry defenders, Lamela does not.
Spurs are never going to compete with the likes of Liverpool, City in a possession game, their midfield simply isnt good enough. Winks is a good technician and progressive passer, but hardly can dominate his area of the pitch. And Lo Celso, who at this point is potential and not much more. Pochettino tried that tactic so many times and only really had any success with the likes of Dembele on the pitch. Who was imperious on the ball in his prime. You cannot play long balls to Moura who looks like he is 5'8 and weights about 60kgs. With Kane out they do not have an out ball, and they did not bring in a similar style striker. So what is left for Spurs? Sit deep, defend, and hit on the counter.
Okay but will we win trophies and win games?
Because again at the moment that’s the priority and what I care about most.
Of course you and other spurs fans only care about results now and football doesn't really matter anymore for you. I completely understand that.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51380652
Erikson's latest interview, nothing really exciting but claims United was interested for the last couple of seasons.
Was it always Inter Milan? There were a few clubs mentioned. Manchester United were routinely mentioned...
"For a few years but it was never really likely. We did speak to them of course and we did hear what was possible and what wasn't possible. But, in the end, me personally, I wanted a new challenge. To stay in the Premier League would have been an easy solution.
"Of course, staying at Tottenham would also have been a solution but, for me, it just came down to wanting to try a new challenge in a new country. Once Inter came up it really wasn't a difficult choice."
Erikson's latest interview, nothing really exciting but claims United was interested for the last couple of seasons.
Was it always Inter Milan? There were a few clubs mentioned. Manchester United were routinely mentioned...
"For a few years but it was never really likely. We did speak to them of course and we did hear what was possible and what wasn't possible. But, in the end, me personally, I wanted a new challenge. To stay in the Premier League would have been an easy solution.
"Of course, staying at Tottenham would also have been a solution but, for me, it just came down to wanting to try a new challenge in a new country. Once Inter came up it really wasn't a difficult choice."
So I take it then you are happy if your team plays fantastic attacking football but doesn't win anything?
Yeah I think it’s a pretty perfect situation for Jose. So long as he delivers on trophies we will support plenty of trashy shithousery football.
That Man City game was probably the single most "against the run of play" victory of a multi-goal margin I've ever seen. And I'm not just saying that to be hyperbolic. The fact that Man City had a full 66% of the possession is actually the smallest discrepancy and least surprising stat (I've never been a fan of the idea that possession stats tell you who "should" have won a game).
Man City missed a penalty and should've had another; they took 14 shots from which they missed the target entirely for genuine open goals and hit the woodwork more than once; some of their misses were absolutely farcical and left me with my mouth open, muttering "how the feck?" under my breath; and they played a third of the match with ten men because of a somewhat dubious red card for Zinchenko, and only after that did Spurs manage to get even a few vague opportunities to shoot. Before the red card, it was looking like Spurs could play forever and never get a sighter (unlike City, who looked like they could play forever and never find a way to not feck it up in spectacular fashion).
The first Spurs goal from their new lad was class but it was basically their first shot on or off-target after 62 minutes(!!); they went on to have another two shots in total; Son's shot-turned-goal was hit directly at the keeper and was nailed on to be saved until it took a horrendous deflection off a City player and into the opposite side of the goal -- the role of the deflection was so extreme that the effort was functionally an own goal because it was getting saved otherwise (and if you look at Son's kerfuffle of a first touch, he was lucky to retain possession long enough to get any shot away).
Words can't do justice to how unbalanced the game actually was. The stats can give you an idea and the official highlights on YouTube offer a decent reflection of the respective (mis)fortunes of the day, but only watching the match itself or extended highlights that include all of City's chances (which would then include no more Spurs chances than the official version because there weren't any) can really tell the whole story.
Surprisingly, the Southampton win wasn't vastly less fortunate: Spurs required an OG and a debatable last gasp penalty to avoid losing the game, whereas Southampton had to be rather unlucky (featuring the woodwork again) for their part in losing. Southampton were fantastic at times, especially the Redmond->Ings move[1], and I felt like they would've been excellent value for a win.
The updated record without Kane over 21 games is W7 D5 L9. Still a long way to go but they're at least out of relegation form without him. Now it's just a solidly bottom-half track record.
[1] Could those two be late bloomers, potentially of value to England? I cautiously rated both of them as England youth players but they fell off hard. I'm always careful never to judge over a small sample size to avoid the recency bias that afflicts football discourse like a cancer. It's why I wasn't on the "Salah is the best player in the PL and will aim for 30+ every season" train after his first, probabilistically unlikely, season at Liverpool; or the "Sterling has overtaken Kane as England's best attacker and player" train from earlier in the season (I notice that thread hasn't been bumped lately..); or the "Son has overtaken Kane as Spurs' best attacker and player" train from parts of last year. I find that you avoid looking foolish most of the time if you teach yourself some basic statistical mathematics and both formal and informal logic -- and, failing that, just being aware of and trying to avoid as many cognitive biases as possible.
Man City missed a penalty and should've had another; they took 14 shots from which they missed the target entirely for genuine open goals and hit the woodwork more than once; some of their misses were absolutely farcical and left me with my mouth open, muttering "how the feck?" under my breath; and they played a third of the match with ten men because of a somewhat dubious red card for Zinchenko, and only after that did Spurs manage to get even a few vague opportunities to shoot. Before the red card, it was looking like Spurs could play forever and never get a sighter (unlike City, who looked like they could play forever and never find a way to not feck it up in spectacular fashion).
The first Spurs goal from their new lad was class but it was basically their first shot on or off-target after 62 minutes(!!); they went on to have another two shots in total; Son's shot-turned-goal was hit directly at the keeper and was nailed on to be saved until it took a horrendous deflection off a City player and into the opposite side of the goal -- the role of the deflection was so extreme that the effort was functionally an own goal because it was getting saved otherwise (and if you look at Son's kerfuffle of a first touch, he was lucky to retain possession long enough to get any shot away).
Words can't do justice to how unbalanced the game actually was. The stats can give you an idea and the official highlights on YouTube offer a decent reflection of the respective (mis)fortunes of the day, but only watching the match itself or extended highlights that include all of City's chances (which would then include no more Spurs chances than the official version because there weren't any) can really tell the whole story.
Surprisingly, the Southampton win wasn't vastly less fortunate: Spurs required an OG and a debatable last gasp penalty to avoid losing the game, whereas Southampton had to be rather unlucky (featuring the woodwork again) for their part in losing. Southampton were fantastic at times, especially the Redmond->Ings move[1], and I felt like they would've been excellent value for a win.
The updated record without Kane over 21 games is W7 D5 L9. Still a long way to go but they're at least out of relegation form without him. Now it's just a solidly bottom-half track record.
[1] Could those two be late bloomers, potentially of value to England? I cautiously rated both of them as England youth players but they fell off hard. I'm always careful never to judge over a small sample size to avoid the recency bias that afflicts football discourse like a cancer. It's why I wasn't on the "Salah is the best player in the PL and will aim for 30+ every season" train after his first, probabilistically unlikely, season at Liverpool; or the "Sterling has overtaken Kane as England's best attacker and player" train from earlier in the season (I notice that thread hasn't been bumped lately..); or the "Son has overtaken Kane as Spurs' best attacker and player" train from parts of last year. I find that you avoid looking foolish most of the time if you teach yourself some basic statistical mathematics and both formal and informal logic -- and, failing that, just being aware of and trying to avoid as many cognitive biases as possible.
This strategy worked for a while, particularly when he had Kane as a target man because Kane just happens to be excellent in the role, but I don't think it could work indefinitely (unless the addition of Bergwijn is somehow related). I think Jose is trying to change the way they play, which is both desired evolution and also tacit acceptance of the fact that route one ball without Kane is much less useful (needing Son running in behind onto passes from deep instead, which is very unreliable as a bread-and-butter strategy).
Probably, though, the team just isn't at the stage where they can implement whatever grand designs Jose has - hence his incessant complaints about "needing time to work with the squad" - consistently and successfully, and so they revert to long ball tactics whenever they can't do whatever it is they're trying to do for Plan A (and, no, I haven't really worked out what Jose's overall style at Spurs is yet -- I'm not convinced anyone has).
Son has fractured his arm. Oh dear.
Fantastic news for us that.
They have Leipzig on Wednesday, Chelsea away at the weekend and then Wolves the weekend after. Without Son and Kane that's a tough run.
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Tough but I'm oddly fairly confident - losing Son is a big blow but feck it we should have enough to get results.
Damn, we makes the injury excuse for Ole most of the season but spurs have not exactly had great this season with eriksen having his mind elsewhere before moving in January, ndomble being injured a lot, kane out for a long period, now son out for quite some time as well and lloris was out injured for a few months.
Look at their bench of late and it really isnt any better than what United currently half as back up.
I dont see why we shouldnt finish above spurs now if Ole is suppose to be a manager good enough manage United.
Look at their bench of late and it really isnt any better than what United currently half as back up.
I dont see why we shouldnt finish above spurs now if Ole is suppose to be a manager good enough manage United.