Yeah, precisely this. Along with a deranged base whipped into a frenzy at the thought of the corrupt Bidens heading a deep state coup.
It's scary shit.
2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
- Status
It's scary shit.
Yeah ... i hope it goes OK over there but worry it wont
To be expected I imagine seeing as new voter registrations were through the roof in 2018 and have been consistently up month on month since then. Its probably better to look at it over a longer period of time then selecting an arbitrary month range.
Trump is America's Odoacer.
I’m amazed at how calm a lot of people seem to be about this. Trump has repeatedly been laying the foundation for claiming that the result of the upcoming election, should he not win, is illegitimate.
Added to that he has previously actively encouraged his gun wielding supporters to come out and protect their interests (Protect statues, stand against protestors etc) so it really isn’t outlandish to think that he will do the same if he ends up losing. It feels as if he’s laying the groundwork for it.
Added to that he has previously actively encouraged his gun wielding supporters to come out and protect their interests (Protect statues, stand against protestors etc) so it really isn’t outlandish to think that he will do the same if he ends up losing. It feels as if he’s laying the groundwork for it.
As long as he loses the election and is out of the WH, whatever he says will be irrelevant. At that point he and his dwindling supporters will have no power beyond moaning about it over tweets.
Well, there seems like there are quite a few ways to challenge a result, especially if it's thight. I think even a few of the scenarios means Trump will stay on. I've seen a couple of articles on the subject, this is one of them: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/17/trump-biden-win-democrat-landslide
Kinda wonder if it would mean the end of a proper democracy in the US. This, even the way he lays the ground work right now, is the kinda stuff you see in third world countries or authoritarian regimes, not a supposed leader of the free world.
Does Trump actually have legal grounds to just.. not accept defeat and leave the white house?
Surely not?!
Surely not?!
I certainly hope it’s as straightforward as you say it is and it doesn’t end up with an actual uprising or anything of that sort.
No, by law his presidency is up by Jan 20 (or around that date). That happens even if there are no elections, in which case the Speaker of the House becomes president (Pelosi).
Trump is just getting his excuses in, and maybe trying to get his people go vote. Without an actual coup of some sorts, there's not a change he can postpone the election or stay in office after a loss.
And thankfully our millitary has an almost pathological fear of being swept up into politics, so a coup is one of my last worries. Voter suppression on the other hand.....
I'm expecting some sort of shenaningans involving the hacking of voting machines by either the Russians or Chinese, maybe in concert with more troll campaigns. It worked too effectively last time to not try it again.
Yeah, this. I would bet my house that Georgia is going to be an absolute shitshow. 2018 and 2020 were dry runs and had no repercussions for republicans' there. I would not be surprised if the Georgia playbook was used in R controlled states that are battlegrounds. I am also really worries about what's going to happen here in WI.
Technically, Pelosi wouldn’t be an elected official if there were no elections so it would not pass to her. The scenario described is if elections were held but the outcome of the General Election was still contested.
If we get to the point you describe, I think the Presidency goes to Tom Hanks or something.
If we don't finally get President Bartlett in that case, I'm giving up.
Actually this would be a cluster since next in line is president pro tem of the senate (McConnell) who is also up for election. The majority whip is Thune (ugh), so I guess he would be president? Seriously though, this is a huge weakness of every house position being up for election every 2 years. Beyond the fact this means they never stop campaigning, it also means that the house ceases to legally exist if the election is prevented.
I thought it would be Chuck Grassley for some reason, but I can’t be arsed to do another deep dive on that headache-inducing subject.
Actually this would be a cluster since next in line is president pro tem of the senate (McConnell) who is also up for election. The majority whip is Thune (ugh), so I guess he would be president? Seriously though, this is a huge weakness of every house position being up for election every 2 years. Beyond the fact this means they never stop campaigning, it also means that the house ceases to legally exist if the election is prevented.
And if he simply doesn't leave?
He has to. He won't be President after a certain date.
The military (if they're being involved) won't be having a direct order to kill civilians. No sir.
Their order would be subtly : keep the ballot safe from protester (Democrats), deployed sparingly in key swing states. It's not like they can say no without being court marshaled, as much as it sounds bogus being sent to maintain Law and Order isn't something extraordinary.
Deployment of active duty military domestically is not that easy or dumbass would have already done it. National Guard troops can be deployed, but only by the states governors. Of course both those sentences rely on the following of laws, soooo.....yeah.
So Americas plan is to maintain blind faith in the same institutions and laws that have been failing them for years, especially under Trump.
Look, if Trump «refuse» to leave the White House he will be escorted out by Secret Service/the military/whatever. I don’t debate that things can get a bit nasty on the streets when he lose but nothing like the picture you are painting.
This is the Constitution we are talking about. What would you recommend we put our faith in instead?
Precisely. All of the institutions are working just as they should, so there’s no need to invent paranoid worst case scenarios at this time.
Something that works?
The constitution is only worth whatever faith people put into it. But Trump doesn’t care about the constitution or the rule of law. The law is merely an obstacle to more wealth and power. He has broken the law numerous times as president. It hasn’t changed a thing. He has done plenty scandalous and unheard of things. Has done stuff that was completely unimaginable and it hasn’t done him any harm whatsoever. He also doesn’t seem to lose any support. Instead his supporters get more radical and aggressive every day. They are also armed. The American police appear to be fully on his side and I wouldn’t discount the possibility, that they might actively support him.
I don’t say it’s bound to happen. But there is a very real possibility, that he might refuse to let go of his power. And so far, the only answer I have gotten as to what might happen if he does, is that it’s not allowed and therefore won’t happen. Which is incredibly naive. The USA is very close to becoming an authoritarian state like Turkey or Russia and people keep acting like all they need to do is vote.
There needs to be a real discussion around this. The dems need to make plans for the worst case. The media must discuss this and warn the people. Trump openly suggested moving the election. He’s „joked“ about similar things before. It’s obvious that it is a serious option for him, so people need an answer to it. But what happens? It’s barely even a story anymore.
He‘s currently openly casting doubt upon the election result, is actively undermining the USPS and his party has a longstanding history of voter fraud. All this after he already manipulated the last election. The only thing that has changed since then, is that his position has become much stronger and he’s desperate to lose power.
Yeah, but it’s not up to him. The military doesn’t answer to him when he’s not the POTUS anymore. I mean, in practical terms how do you propose he would go about this? This is Alex Jones territory.
It’s not remotely as apocalyptic as you’re portraying it. At the end of the day it’s a simple matter of holding an election and proceeding accordingly after results are counted.
I’d argue that the senate completely failed its function in the Trump impeachment process.
What an uninspiring set of has-beens and no-name losers. Amazing that this Z-list is the best a "billionaire" in entertainment for 20 years can come up with. Really shows how reviled Trump is among actors, musicians and other entertainers (not that we didn't expect that).
True. The participants are bad but the institution itself remains resilient. Replace the participants and the outcomes will revert back to pre-Trump norms.
I am not so sure that Biden would want to deal with the baggage that Rice has. Rice's son is a outspoken Trump supporter and was President of Standford Republicans.
He could potentially cause all sorts of headaches for Biden's campaign.
There are plenty of ways to do this. He could cancel or delay the election. He could declare himself winner, no matter the actual result. He could simply manipulate the election (he’s already doing so). There’s plenty of ways. But what’s most important and what people need to understand is, that all he needs are enough supporters, who believe him. He doesn’t need to convince the majority that what he’s doing is right. He only needs to convince his base. And they are heavily armed and basically members of a political death cult.
It has happened in so many other countries before. The USA is not special. It can happen there, too. It might very soon.
By the way, what if the military or the police keeps answering to him, even if he loses? Do you trust the American police to be on the side of law and reason? I don’t.
The very same president has manipulated an election before, he’ll try again. He might succeed.
And again, I’m not saying it’s going to happen, but it can. And there should be plans for a scenario like this. Because he doesn’t care about the constitution.
There is no warning sign of fascism or authoritanism the USA is not currently displacing.
No he cannot, not without the approval of Congress at least.
No, he can’t. The POTUS has no chance of doing that.
Of course he hasn’t. Until he does.
He can’t do any of the above. Only Congress can delay an election.
I don’t think you understand. It’s impossible. The congress is not going to allow that. Come on man.
- Status