2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Redplane

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This certainly fits...

When you consider how much corrupt and desperate behavior this administration has displayed to undermine the elections it should be very clear how scared they are of all the shit they're afraid of coming out if they lose. Kind of ironic that yet again "Mr. law and order" creates actions that reduces the enforcement of those things.
 

Wittmann45

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Not a big fan of this possibility, but why do you not keep this close to the vest until after the election?

I’d rather play protracted defense smoothly for the rest of the campaign than have self-inflicted wounds like these. Don’t see the obvious upside in this.
Is Kasich popular in Ohio? Two term governor and he served for a long time in the House of Representatives.

Seems to be a move to win over a few voters in a really close Ohio race. I don't agree with Kasich's views on many issues, I wouldn't want him in a Democratic president's cabinet and I can't see how it moves the needle that much but I also don't see how it hurts him to leak stuff like this
 

Frosty

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538's polling average has Biden up by 6 points in PA

He has an 87% chance of winning the election, versus Trump at 12%, with a 1% chance of an electoral college tie
 

sun_tzu

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538's polling average has Biden up by 6 points in PA

He has an 87% chance of winning the election, versus Trump at 12%, with a 1% chance of an electoral college tie
Though as you will know if you listen to the 538 politics podcast and especially model talk where they explain the mechanics behind the model this does not necessarily equate to an 87% chance of Biden actually becoming president as it does not factor in what may happen with legal cases about the postal votes and their eligability and or other shithousery trump may pull regarding voter suppression etc

But yes an 87% chance seems about right and if polls stay the same that will increase as we move to election day - though so will the probability trump does something unpredictable and I hope I'm wrong but my gut feel is given there is seems to be a partisan divide with more dems than republicans voting by post and that these votes are likley to take some considerable time to count (based on primaries) and may well be subject to further legal challenges there is a realistic scenario where trump gets the most in person votes - declares himself winner and tries to shut down the vote counts - its going to be really messy if that happens - almost certainly go legal and I would give trump a better than 12% chance of getting a favorable result from Kavanaugh, and ACB etc.

As an external observer its shocking to me that trump has damaged the image of American democracy abroad so much that we now pretty much expect the president to try to fix the election or at least try to use the courts to keep power and thats just kinda accepted / expected
 

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538's polling average has Biden up by 6 points in PA

He has an 87% chance of winning the election, versus Trump at 12%, with a 1% chance of an electoral college tie
Im guessing the divergence between the RCP and 538 is that the latter tends to weight polls based on past performance, which would probably mean Rasmussen, Trafalgar, and Emerson are mean less in their poll of polls.
 

Raoul

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Is Kasich popular in Ohio? Two term governor and he served for a long time in the House of Representatives.

Seems to be a move to win over a few voters in a really close Ohio race. I don't agree with Kasich's views on many issues, I wouldn't want him in a Democratic president's cabinet and I can't see how it moves the needle that much but I also don't see how it hurts him to leak stuff like this
He probably has some resdidual pull among centrist fiscal conservatives and folks interested in more bipartisanship. He has no credibility among Trumpers.
 

sun_tzu

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Joe Biden: I'm Putting Republicans In My Cabinet

If biden wins I think its almost a given that trump is going to try and deligitimise him (tweeting away from trump tower moscow, legal challanges and probably some form of trump TV (buying part of oann?)

America starts out as a pretty politically divided country and trump will be seeking to deepen those divides (presumably for a 2024 run for him or don jnr) - genuinely one of the best things that could happen to the american political system would be to have parties working together on issues (and also handling differences in a better way) and that wont happen by accident - it will take work and it will take something like a bipartisan presence in the cabinet to start this off - if that means making policies that carry the broad support of the country rather than policies designed around a subset of his own parties agenda of course thats going to make that subset feel marginalized but in the grand scheme of things probably the greater good is trying to depolarize entrenched political camps and bringing america back together (as he has said through the campaign)
 

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If biden wins I think its almost a given that trump is going to try and deligitimise him (tweeting away from trump tower moscow, legal challanges and probably some form of trump TV (buying part of oann?)

America starts out as a pretty politically divided country and trump will be seeking to deepen those divides (presumably for a 2024 run for him or don jnr) - genuinely one of the best things that could happen to the american political system would be to have parties working together on issues (and also handling differences in a better way) and that wont happen by accident - it will take work and it will take something like a bipartisan presence in the cabinet to start this off - if that means making policies that carry the broad support of the country rather than policies designed around a subset of his own parties agenda of course thats going to make that subset feel marginalized but in the grand scheme of things probably the greater good is trying to depolarize entrenched political camps and bringing america back together (as he has said through the campaign)
Sounds good and all, but meanwhile hundreds of minorities will be gunned down by cops, millions more will be disenfranchised by systemic racism, 10's of thousands of people will die from lack of healthcare, yet another generation will pass with the wealth gap widening and the world will literally burn past the point of no return.

This is not me saying any of what you said is wrong in principal, but the other sides policies are the definition of evil so compromising is to let a piece of that evil in. The time for a gradual move towards enlightenment for the neanderthals on the right has run out. My generation and that of my parents wasted that time. Unfortunately, when politics is run by old men and women they care very little for the future and even less for the future genration.
 

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That seems fair. So it might move the needle for voters who are somehow undecided about who to vote for or whether to vote at all
Yeah in a way it creates the perception that Biden has support from a vast coalition stretching from traditional Republicans all the way to progressives. Not sure how much it will move the needle in terms of actual votes other than to challenge the perception among some Trump voters on the fence to may not bother voting for him.
 

sun_tzu

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Sounds good and all, but meanwhile hundreds of minorities will be gunned down by cops, millions more will be disenfranchised by systemic racism, 10's of thousands of people will die from lack of healthcare, yet another generation will pass with the wealth gap widening and the world will literally burn past the point of no return.

This is not me saying any of what you said is wrong in principal, but the other sides policies are the definition of evil so compromising is to let a piece of that evil in. The time for a gradual move towards enlightenment for the neanderthals on the right has run out. My generation and that of my parents wasted that time. Unfortunately, when politics is run by old men and women they care very little for the future and even less for the future genration.
This is where i disagree because painting the democrats as over-run by antifa and hell bent on turning America into a communist wasteland is to me as far of the mark as suggesting that all republicans and all their policies are the definition of evil.

If Biden believes he can find people on the other side who will support enough of his agenda (eg not a national health service but expanded medical care and a public option) and having them on board will help get legislation passed and ensure that people who didnt vote for biden are more likley to give the policy consideration on its merits because it brings some bipartisan support then that seems logical

Equally finding people who agree that police reform and racial equality is something that is a high priority but does not necessarily mandate the defunding of the police is entirely plausible in a bipartisan atmosphere

As for environmental issues again its perfectly possible to find people who can accept that there is climate change and all evidence points to this being man made and potentially irreversible with devastating consequences unless governments around the world take unified action to change behaviors without having to fully sign up to the green new deal

If he can find respected republicans who are prepared to back a public healthcare option as well as accept there needs to be serious reform of police and racial inequalities whilst acknowledging climate change is a serious man made problem and having them on side would help him implement policies and help bring people together then why not bring them on board if it helps
 

Kentonio

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If biden wins I think its almost a given that trump is going to try and deligitimise him (tweeting away from trump tower moscow, legal challanges and probably some form of trump TV (buying part of oann?)

America starts out as a pretty politically divided country and trump will be seeking to deepen those divides (presumably for a 2024 run for him or don jnr) - genuinely one of the best things that could happen to the american political system would be to have parties working together on issues (and also handling differences in a better way) and that wont happen by accident - it will take work and it will take something like a bipartisan presence in the cabinet to start this off - if that means making policies that carry the broad support of the country rather than policies designed around a subset of his own parties agenda of course thats going to make that subset feel marginalized but in the grand scheme of things probably the greater good is trying to depolarize entrenched political camps and bringing america back together (as he has said through the campaign)
You mean just like Obama tried to reach out to Republicans and received 8 years of obstruction and abuse in return?

I’m tired of the Democrats trying to reach out, it doesn’t work and the Republicans have no interest in playing along. As soon as Trump is gone the same cnuts who made Obama’s life a living hell will be back in charge, and the chances of them suddenly deciding to play nice is basically zero. They’ll need to win back over the Trump base, and they aren’t going to do that by being nice to Democrats.

The Democrats need to win and fight back as hard as they can to push the Overton window back to the left some. Not that they will, because Biden et al are basically just moderate Republicans anyway.
 

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The republicans wouldn't vote with a democratic president if that democratic president put the last republican bill to the vote. Anyone desperate to work with someone who's only intent is to obliterate you is mental.
 

slyadams

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Though as you will know if you listen to the 538 politics podcast and especially model talk where they explain the mechanics behind the model this does not necessarily equate to an 87% chance of Biden actually becoming president as it does not factor in what may happen with legal cases about the postal votes and their eligability and or other shithousery trump may pull regarding voter suppression etc

But yes an 87% chance seems about right and if polls stay the same that will increase as we move to election day - though so will the probability trump does something unpredictable and I hope I'm wrong but my gut feel is given there is seems to be a partisan divide with more dems than republicans voting by post and that these votes are likley to take some considerable time to count (based on primaries) and may well be subject to further legal challenges there is a realistic scenario where trump gets the most in person votes - declares himself winner and tries to shut down the vote counts - its going to be really messy if that happens - almost certainly go legal and I would give trump a better than 12% chance of getting a favorable result from Kavanaugh, and ACB etc.

As an external observer its shocking to me that trump has damaged the image of American democracy abroad so much that we now pretty much expect the president to try to fix the election or at least try to use the courts to keep power and thats just kinda accepted / expected
Its worth noting that all of the crazy shit that's happened over the past four years has been mostly constrained to politics: Trump's executive orders, Trump's foreign policy, the Republican senate, Trump's tweeting, Trump's handling of the COVID pandemic, Trump's phone calls etc. I'm not sure its fair to say the SCOTUS has gone equally rogue. A lot is made of the left/right makeup of the SCOTUS, and in certain ideological cases this leaning will hold out, but if a case comes before them to say "stop counting postal votes because they're fraudulent", I'm inclined to believe the SCOTUS will examine the case on its merits than just voting down party lines. These people might have political leanings, but they are also incredibly qualified/experienced jurists, and I'm not actually convinced they want to be looked back upon as enabling this man. They're intelligent people, they will know how history will judge Trump and I don't think they'll want to be a part of it. Additionally, they're life appointments and Trump is just one more term. It doesn't stack up for me legacy wise.

In summary, perhaps I'm being naive, but I don't think its a home run that a right leaning SCOTUS will just ignore the law and rule in favour of Trump.
 

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Oops didnt see that notification . But 50 c still endorsed trump, unless that's fake news as well.
No that is definitely true. He made it clear he's a millionaire and he likes Trump's tax plan better. Thats a valid enough reason to personally vote for a candidate I'd say. Not nice, but totally understandable.
 

calodo2003

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This is what the genre that originally started as the voice of the oppressed has come to :lol:
Here’s the actual picture. Not sure why the fake would still be up in Twitter (if it still is). Maybe they’re a little trigger shy after pulling the bullshit laptop story?

 

Carolina Red

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No that is definitely true. He made it clear he's a millionaire and he likes Trump's tax plan better. Thats a valid enough reason to personally vote for a candidate I'd say. Not nice, but totally understandable.
“He’s a cnut and a danger to the rest of the world, but instead of making stacks on stacks, with his tax plan, I can make stacks on stacks on stacks... so I’m voting for him!”
 

Wittmann45

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'Keep the flag flying Jimmy'
“He’s a cnut and a danger to the rest of the world, but instead of making stacks on stacks, with his tax plan, I can make stacks on stacks on stacks... so I’m voting for him!”
I don't know a lot about 50 Cent but Ice Cube made a lot of money rapping about issues like police brutality and racism and he claims to be a socially conscious dude. I am not claiming your vote should be tied to your ethnicity, and people may argue that the Democrats have taken the black vote for granted, so I get where he is coming from, but considering the time we are in and the stance Trump has taken against police reform and any sort of meaningful social change, Ice Cube could have kept his support for Trump to himself. I mean, maybe the campaign did reach out to him and made promises about police reform or investment in black communities/schools, but, also, maybe wait to speak about working with Trump until after you see some actually change in the way he speaks about the issues?
 
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You mean just like Obama tried to reach out to Republicans and received 8 years of obstruction and abuse in return?

I’m tired of the Democrats trying to reach out, it doesn’t work and the Republicans have no interest in playing along. As soon as Trump is gone the same cnuts who made Obama’s life a living hell will be back in charge, and the chances of them suddenly deciding to play nice is basically zero. They’ll need to win back over the Trump base, and they aren’t going to do that by being nice to Democrats.

The Democrats need to win and fight back as hard as they can to push the Overton window back to the left some. Not that they will, because Biden et al are basically just moderate Republicans anyway.
That's the thing. The outreach to the right has to go even deeper to have any chance of reaching someone, and the Republicans might still block it all (if they don't lose the Senate), just so they can present Biden as an ineffective president and win back the House and/or Senate in the next round of elections. In the meantime, the Democrats will have pulled to the right a little more. In what's effectively a two-party system, that just means that the left is being vacated entirely at the highest level of politics. In the long-run, that's a losing game. Yes, the country doesn't run away with idiot populists this way, but if that's at the cost of abandoning any semblance of progressiveness or socio-democrat ideas, then what's really won?

If the Democrats win the presidency, House, and Senate in November, they shouldn't compromise, but set themselves up for future success by showing the value of their brand. That means moving left and showing the great gains that progressive policies can bring. If they don't and fully embrace the centre-right that Biden seems to be moving to occupy, then I hope the actual left breaks off and founds a big, new party. (No, that would not guarantee Republican wins forever, as the centre-right remainder of the Democrats would be able to stop pretending it cares about the left and could goble up most of the centre with all the non-extreme Republicans. You'd be left with the GOP as a party of populist crazies, the Dems as the centre-right, and the new party as the centre-left. Long-term, that might eradicate the GOP as a political force entirely.)
 

WI_Red

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This is where i disagree because painting the democrats as over-run by antifa and hell bent on turning America into a communist wasteland is to me as far of the mark as suggesting that all republicans and all their policies are the definition of evil.

If Biden believes he can find people on the other side who will support enough of his agenda (eg not a national health service but expanded medical care and a public option) and having them on board will help get legislation passed and ensure that people who didnt vote for biden are more likley to give the policy consideration on its merits because it brings some bipartisan support then that seems logical

Equally finding people who agree that police reform and racial equality is something that is a high priority but does not necessarily mandate the defunding of the police is entirely plausible in a bipartisan atmosphere

As for environmental issues again its perfectly possible to find people who can accept that there is climate change and all evidence points to this being man made and potentially irreversible with devastating consequences unless governments around the world take unified action to change behaviors without having to fully sign up to the green new deal

If he can find respected republicans who are prepared to back a public healthcare option as well as accept there needs to be serious reform of police and racial inequalities whilst acknowledging climate change is a serious man made problem and having them on side would help him implement policies and help bring people together then why not bring them on board if it helps
Maybe evil was the wrong word since it is usually a moral judgment, so I will go with reprehensible. The Republicans platform for 2020 is literally "We support President Trump". His views on systemic racism, police brutality, climate change, healthcare and wealth disparity are, to me, reprehensible.

Any "True" Republican you bring into a Biden administration is going to agree with a least a portion of Trumps views, because if they didn't they would likely be Democrats. Many of them have the same views, they just don't like Trump. No one who believes there is no systemic racism, that we should not tax the rich more, that healthcare is not a human right, that climate change is a fact, etc. should be anywhere near a Biden administration.
 

Revan

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If biden wins I think its almost a given that trump is going to try and deligitimise him (tweeting away from trump tower moscow, legal challanges and probably some form of trump TV (buying part of oann?)

America starts out as a pretty politically divided country and trump will be seeking to deepen those divides (presumably for a 2024 run for him or don jnr) - genuinely one of the best things that could happen to the american political system would be to have parties working together on issues (and also handling differences in a better way) and that wont happen by accident - it will take work and it will take something like a bipartisan presence in the cabinet to start this off - if that means making policies that carry the broad support of the country rather than policies designed around a subset of his own parties agenda of course thats going to make that subset feel marginalized but in the grand scheme of things probably the greater good is trying to depolarize entrenched political camps and bringing america back together (as he has said through the campaign)
That’s all well but it won’t work with McConnell leading the Republican senators (even as minority leader). Obama tried it and managed to do feck all.
 

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Siena and Monmouth both showing healthy but slim leads in Iowa. Inside the margins of errors, but if biden is taking Iowa its game over.
 

Redplane

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Siena and Monmouth both showing healthy but slim leads in Iowa. Inside the margins of errors, but if biden is taking Iowa its game over.
Youd hope some people in that state took notice when Trump decided to make their livelihoods being destroyed bc of a natural disaster into a whine fest about the news not paying attention to him.
 
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