2021 Sheep Draft R1 - Physiocrat vs. Ecstatic

[Michaelf7777777]

Physiocrat

Wingless Wonders

Formation - Christmas tree/ 235

Tactics -

More focus on the central areas than I normally go for although both full-backs (Wimmer covered the flanks quite a lot when he was nominally playing at CM, he also had an exceptional engine so I think he could play the wing back role very well - PES stats also has him down as playing full-back in the past which is unsurprising) will bomb forward in attack providing good width which Batistuta will thrive on. Also though it will provide space for Tostao and Kubala to work more centrally and of course means more space for Pirlo to thread his eye of the needle passes. Tostao and Kubala will interchange position whenever they wish.

Spoiler: Possible Shape in Attack

When we lose possession Tostao and Kubala will move wide to press the oppositions full-backs. Also Bilardo and Mackay have key roles in dampening counters to give Kaltz and Wimmer a chance to get back.

Spoiler: DEFENSIVE TRANSITION

We will then drop into a 4411 in the organised defensive phase. Kubala moves the 10 position to be a threat with his pace on the counter.

Spoiler: ORGANISED DEFENSIVE PHASE

If Tostao is on the right when possession is lost he will end up on RM position without the ball and Mackay at LM. Kubala will always be the furthest forward of anyone bar Batistuta.

Ecstatic

ECSTATIC STRATEGY ENGINEERED BY TELÊ SANTANA IN 1982

ECSTATIC PHILOSOPHY - WHAT YOU SEE IN THIS VIDEO IS WHAT YOU GET IN THIS GAME


1. 1984 DEVIL PACT SIGNED BETWEEN A GENIUS WITH A DOCTOR
2. A STRIKER WITH THE SUPPORT OF A PACY FORRWARD/FALSE WINGER
3. HAVE A PLAYMAKING COMPACT CENTRAL MIDFIELD
4. NO PURE WINGERS

AMBASSADORS - PR FALCAO & LEO JUNIOR



HISTORICAL BACKGROUND

BRASIL 1982 (4-3-3): WALDIR PERES; LEANDRO, OSCAR, LUIZINHO, JUNIOR; FALCÃO, TONINHO CEREZO e SÓCRATES; ZICO, SERGINHO, ÉDER.
World Cup 1982 Spain Facts: Brazilian fans and journalists recognize that this team was excellent. What happened to Brazil in 1982 was similar to what had happened to Holland in 1974 and Hungary in 1954: the best team had not won. Brazil had underestimated Italy, a bit more of caution would be useful, since a simple tie against the Italians would get Brazil thru, but the nature of the team was pure attack, and Paolo Rossi was on fire that day. Tactical Tendencies: An average Goalkeeper with Valdir Perez. Oscar and Luisinho were great technical center backs; Junior and Leandro were both capable of attacking by the flanks; Cerezo as a holding midfielder; Zico, Socrates and Falcao – 3 attacking midfielders, Serginho a target man and Eder as a left winger. Paulo Isidoro and Batista as subs in the midfield. They failed to reach the semifinals, but won the hearts of millions of soccerfans world-wide. The memory of their football will linger. It is the Team of Dreams

 

[Michaelf7777777]

@Physiocrat @Ecstatic

 

[P-Nut]

Looks a better shape than his first game this for Ecstatic

 

[Physiocrat]

Looks a better shape than his first game this for Ecstatic

Yeah, definitely looks better. Although I would focus on Lerby being able to get down the left a bit more. As the formation pic looks it shows all the width coming from Junior which doesn't get the best out of him.

It looks like Ecstatic will have more of the ball but I am well suited to counter especially with Pirlo finding Kubala. He could then cause some particular damage especially with the supporting full-backs bombing forward to play in Batigol who is the best goalscorer on the pitch.

 

[Ecstatic]

@Physiocrat

All the best. Several sharemytactics maps, this is really your personal style

 

[Ecstatic]

My team is great but I can't compete with 44 players tbh

 

[harms]

I’d certainly swap Kaka and Giresse.

 

[Enigma_87]

Lots of creativity from Physio to field a really restrained squad, but faces a really great team here.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Physiocrat

All the best. Several sharemytactics maps, this is really your personal style

Cheers I like to show exactly how I am playing. I can find other matches it difficult to see exactly how everyone is playing, especially in the defensive phase.

Now onto a player I think is generally underrated and I have underrated to. Tostao is majestic in the 1970 World Cup. His touch is immaculate and gets everywhere and is a great team player.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

That team would look much better as a Christmas tree.

Feels like Kaka is being shoehorned somehow for the last 2 games. Not feeling it yet am afraid, Ecstatic.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

That midfield lacks balance as well. Needs a few reinforcements as there is great potential there

 

[Ecstatic]

I’d certainly swap Kaka and Giresse.

Interesting comment because unexpected.

I have watched the video you made about Platini. As you know, Platini is slightly attracted by the left side because (1) he likes to combine with Boniek and (2) he is right-footed i.e. he scored 9 goals at the 1984 Euro (5 right foot, 2 left foot and 2 headers).

In another video below, you can see how Giresse and Platini interact and the story is to say there are 2 playmakers (PlatiniGiresse/ZicoSocrates) + 1 hybrid player (Kaka/Eder) + 1 striker (Scheva/Serginho)

Now, Cafu will be a kind of winger in some way and Giresse will support and cover him. On the other side, Leo Junior tends to go up, but more centrally, which is an issue if I put Lerby, Platini, Leo Junior and Giresse on the same side.

 

[Ecstatic]

That team would look much better as a Christmas tree.

Feels like Kaka is being shoehorned somehow for the last 2 games. Not feeling it yet am afraid, Ecstatic.

No worries! We all like Christmas, gifts and Weihnachtsmann...

 

[harms]

In another video below, you can see how Giresse and Platini interact and the story is to say there are 2 playmakers (PlatiniGiresse/ZicoSocrates) + 1 hybrid player (Kaka/Eder) + 1 striker (Scheva/Serginho)

I meant only their wing allocation, obviously Kaka still has to play further forward as a Boniek-esque figure.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Ecstatic not that I dislike reading about classic team's, OP should be about how your team plays as per that tactic. For example what qualities or style of Socrates will Giresse parallel here?

 

[Ecstatic]

Cheers I like to show exactly how I am playing. I can find other matches it difficult to see exactly how everyone is playing, especially in the defensive phase.

Now onto a player I think is generally underrated and I have underrated to. Tostao is majestic in the 1970 World Cup. His touch is immaculate and gets everywhere and is a great team player.

Definitely a quality player: very collective, sense of sacrifice, and always looking for space.

I used him in an old draft
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-4-way-draft-qf-ecstatic-vs-enigma.431916/

Please correct me if I am wrong but he has a tendency to play back to the goal and organize the game in some way, which raises the question about who will run forward and offer him options offensively.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Šjor Bepo Look no wingers. I did it!

 

[Ecstatic]

@Ecstatic not that I dislike reading about classic team's, OP should be about how your team plays as per that tactic. For example what qualities or style of Socrates will Giresse parallel here?

I use an OP to provoke a debate and some comments like your. And then the discussion will be the opportunity to talk tactics.

 

[Physiocrat]

Definitely a quality player: very collective, sense of sacrifice, and always looking for space.

I used him in an old draft
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-4-way-draft-qf-ecstatic-vs-enigma.431916/

Please correct me if I am wrong but he has a tendency to play back to the goal and organize the game in some way, which raises the question about who will run forward and offer him options offensively.

He did try to organise it in some way that is true. I think it should be remembered that Batigol was not just a big lump who stayed in the penalty area. He could make some great runs. See this first goal for example, true it is not off the ball but he was hardly slow. Also Kubala will also clearly provide a runner with his pace. Also both full-backs will provide options too.

 

[Ecstatic]

He did try to organise it in some way that is true. I think it should be remembered that Batigol was not just a big lump who stayed in the penalty area. He could make some great runs. See this first goal for example, true it is not off the ball but he was hardly slow. Also Kubala will also clearly provide a runner with his pace. Also both full-backs will provide options too.

Points noted, Comrade

Am I correct if I say you don't seem to expect Bilardo and Mackay to be useful offensively?

I am back tomorrow

 

[Physiocrat]

Points noted, Comrade

Am I correct if I say you don't seem to expect Bilardo and Mackay to be useful offensively?

I am back tomorrow

Not massively no. They were both decent on the ball but there role is quite reserved to allow Wimmer and Kaltz full freedom to go forward.

 

[Physiocrat]

Any comments anyone on my general tactical setup rather than personnel mismatches with Ecstatic?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Any comments anyone on my general tactical setup rather than personnel mismatches with Ecstatic?

I dunno, but I would have - perhaps - portrayed Kubala slightly differently: given your default illustration and "attack phase" illustration, it's easy to get the impression that Kalz is a one-man flank.

I might have tried to sell the idea that Kubala is very well suited for a "drifter" job here, i.e. moving out on the right flank from time to time in order to combine with Kalz. I'd have probably put an arrow on him (Kubala) to illustrate such a function - but that's just me, I like my arrows.

Anyway, bottom line: give me those 11 players, and I'll set up in pretty much exactly the same (default) way as you have. So, for me - it's the right formation/setup, no doubt.

ETA The issue is simple and obvious: you're getting outmuscled here in terms of individual quality. There's nothing significantly wrong with your team as such (as I see it).

 

[Physiocrat]

I dunno, but I would have - perhaps - portrayed Kubala slightly differently: given your default illustration and "attack phase" illustration, it's easy to get the impression that Kalz is a one-man flank.

I might have tried to sell the idea that Kubala is very well suited for a "drifter" job here, i.e. moving out on the right flank from time to time in order to combine with Kalz. I'd have probably put an arrow on him (Kubala) to illustrate such a function - but that's just me, I like my arrows.

Oh yeah I didn't mean to show Kaltz as a one man attack. I just got lazy and didn't do another graphic for when the ball is on the right. That one would have made Winmer look like a one man attack. I sort of gave up on arrows as they were misinterpreted a lot of the time.

Thanks for the comments. And yes the problem for me is obvious, just wanted to see how the style was received.

 

[Gio]

Any comments anyone on my general tactical setup rather than personnel mismatches with Ecstatic?

Looks fine. All very natural fits. No arguments with the system and it's probably the best way to try and contain Ecstatic's juggernaut. A few of those players - Zmuda, Mackay, Batistuta - who I really rate taking on the role of underdogs. 1 in every 5 games I reckon you'd win 1-0, Batistuta streaking through on the end of a Pirlo defence-splitter.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Any comments anyone on my general tactical setup rather than personnel mismatches with Ecstatic?

Did you plan to build a pyramid from start? Or with players picked it ended up this way?

It's straight forward tactics. I personally have no idea how good Tassotti was at CB. Was he a stopper?

Love Tostao. Researched him in earlier draft and such a selfless player. Good team. Bad matchup.

I use an OP to provoke a debate and some comments like your. And then the discussion will be the opportunity to talk tactics.

What does Giresse bring to the table? What's his role offensively and defensively?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Was he a stopper?

I can't say I remember distinctly how he operated when called upon to play centrally. I mainly remember him as a right back. But given his overall style of play, I'd say he'd be better suited as a stopper alongside either a sweeper style CB (like here) or a more adventurous/ball playing type of CB.

He wasn't useless on the ball, by the way - but still. Nobody would remember him today if he hadn't been (first and foremost) rock solid defensively.

ETA Bottom line would be: I think he's used correctly here. Zmuda is the defence leader, Tassotti is the side kick - I think that's how it would have played out in real life too.

 

[Physiocrat]

Did you plan to build a pyramid from start? Or with players picked it ended up this way?

It's straight forward tactics. I personally have no idea how good Tassotti was at CB. Was he a stopper?

Well when I got Kaltz early it was broadly the way I was going. Tassotti played CB sometimes and was an all-round sort stopperish kind. He would have been a CB in today's game and would first in quite well given his pace plus he was decent on the ball. I remember having him in an old draft where I highlighted his forays forward

 

[Himannv]

Much better team than the last game from @Ecstatic

I definitely prefer this role for Kaka than the last one. Also Giresse is a nice addition to the team and a perfect fit for this sort of structure obviously. I prefer him on the left of course, but I think he's more than capable of replicating that Socrates role.

 

[Ecstatic]

For example what qualities or style of Socrates will Giresse parallel here?

From a tactical standpoint, they will play the same role: advanced central playmakers capable to revolve around the central man.

In terms of qualities and style, they are very different. I say that because - otherwise - oneniltothearsenal would come here and rescue the Doctor. Socrates is naturally more talented and creative: good in the air, unique style (back-heel), more punchy offensively. A successful brother Rai playing for PSG.

The former PSG coach Giresse was an absolute failure. The player is aggressive, more organizer and disciplined tactically.

The video above is about Giresse with France and Platini, but the other one is interesting because you can see the battle Giresse vs Platini

 

[Ecstatic]

Looks a better shape than his first game this for Ecstatic

Much better team than the last game from @Ecstatic
I definitely prefer this role for Kaka than the last one. Also Giresse is a nice addition to the team and a perfect fit for this sort of structure obviously. I prefer him on the left of course, but I think he's more than capable of replicating that Socrates role.

Thanks guys

 

[Gio]

I'm not getting why there's so much discussion about Giresse replicating Socrates when all Ecstatic needs is Giresse to replicate Giresse.

 

[Ecstatic]

I don't know Wimmer but the connection Kaltz/Batistuta would be interesting

 

[Physiocrat]

I don't know Wimmer but the connection Kaltz/Batistuta would be interesting

Mad duracell bunny. Was known as Iron Lung. Did a lot of the dirty work for West Germany to allow Netzer to flourish. He was up and down all the time and in wide areas. I'm glad the Kaltz-Batigol link is recognised. Shame you have some great defenders in the air who are also tall

 

[Ecstatic]

Mad duracell bunny. Was known as Iron Lung. Did a lot of the dirty work for West Germany to allow Netzer to flourish. He was up and down all the time and in wide areas. I'm glad the Kaltz-Batigol link is recognised. Shame you have some great defenders in the air who are also tall

Good to know. Will research about him, but while searching about tactics have recently discovered a new player most of you know. the type of sheep that should be allocated

 

[Ecstatic]

Kubala is a frustrating player, a legendary one but not a lot of materials available

 

[Himannv]

I really like the formation graphics that Physio has shared. Leaves a fairly clear picture of how his team would really work.

 

[Physiocrat]

Kubala is a frustrating player, a legendary one but not a lot of materials available

Yeah, that's why I didn't share any of the videos. I used to think if I saw bad videos of historic players they were clearly overated. I did this with Amancio Amaro but then later some other all touch compilations came out and he looked significantly better. So I think there is probably better footage of him somewhere.

I really like the formation graphics that Physio has shared. Leaves a fairly clear picture of how his team would really work.

 

[Physiocrat]

Great side @Ecstatic Your win is clearly deserved

 

[Ecstatic]

Great side @Ecstatic Your win is clearly deserved

Thank you for you kind message. I feel a bit sorry about this game and the scoreline but I know that - contrary to most of us - you are not interested in just picking some big names.

Also, you know more than anybody else that voters tend to underappreciate players they don't know very well or players who played in the black-and-white world.

So players like mackay-kubala-zizinho-ademir-leonidas-dean attract a limited interest.

Also, we forgot to speak about Bilardo - I would have been surprised to see antohan enlighten us about the player.

This game was not really about tactics but more the fact voters were not convinced by Wimmer as a left-back and Bilardo (1 international cap only).

Last but not least, I have 14 non-injured players against 12 players for you... And I picked 2 players (Leo-Falcao) in the last 3 rounds against 0 for you.