That makes us mortal enemies
2024 U.S. Elections
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
The "minimization" is only happening in your head, it's not in anything I've written.
In fact it's the opposite, someone reduced the whole thing to numbers and I said numbers alone don't tell the whole story. I don't think my english is that bad.
I've been following both conflicts very closely and my personal conclusion is that despite both being horrendous and filled with war crimes, the israelis have done much worse. If you disagree that's ok, but literally nothing I've written minimized the situation in ukraine.
Part of what makes it worse is that ukraine has received help and support from pretty much the entire west (both moral, diplomatic, financial and military), while the palestinians have received nothing but empty words, all while seeing those butchering them getting billions in financial and military aid, as well as diplomatic cover in all international institutions.
I hope the fact you're voting for the man dealing with these 2 tragedies in such a different ways prompts a moment of reflection.
I will reply with numbers because that's how you started this chat. Disclaimer: I don't want to minimize any deaths.
A quick google search tells me russia has killed around 12k civilians, including around 600 children. Israel has killed over 40k civilians (I think it's safe to assume those missing for weeks under ruble are dead) including around 15k children. And israel did it in much less time.
If numbers are your standard, then these are the numbers.
In 2020 I think Biden won by +12 to +15 (depending on different polls), so this is not far off from that.
You keep going back to this type of argument and it is one I can only view as nihilistic or as a fantasy. In the world that exists in your head what is the outcome if the large percentage of “Biden voters” who are against his Israel policy stay home?
Is that worth the complete removal of support for Ukraine and the likely catastrophic results for Ukraine and Europe that follow? For the withdrawal of the USA from NATO and the effect that has on the security and economies of the EU as you struggle to fill the void? For the economic hit the EU will suffer if the proposed 10% tariff is applied? And those are just a few of Trump’s promised actions that will affect Portugal directly and does not even address the clusterfeck we will experience domestically.
At least be honest and actually say you want Trump to be president as punishment to Biden and his admin for their handling of the Israeli genocide in Gaza instead of the nonsensical “Trump is horrible but you should all not vote for Biden”. If that’s not your position then actually say what it is and don’t stop at what you would do, actually follow it to its conclusion if everyone who feels, like you and I do, that the US’s response has been abominable and is complicit, followed your stance.
As for the first part, I think making power rankings of human suffering is abhorrent and that was my comment. Russia and Israel are acting in ways that are in line with some of the worst actors in human history, and to say one is “not as bad” (which saying the other is many times worse is doing) is just wrong.
I think that is fairly accurate. The first group are people who will vote GOP regardless of the candidate because they think they'll pay less in taxes (whether they are super wealthy or not). The second are the conservative religious culture war nutcases. Then there are the Q anon, Trump is a hero, COVID was planned by global elites nutcases. There might be a fourth group of outright racists/LGBT haters although maybe those are just modifiers that fit into the other three groups.
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What is that weirdness supposed to be?
Proof polls mean nothing, if these people that are being asked are like me, I'd too wouldn't probably wouldn't reveal who I'm voting for with such disdain for the two party monopoly that I'd show it by a protest jokester vote (until actual voting day where I revert back to type and fall in) surprised Mickey Mouse isn't on it.
An injection of levity into this thread.
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That Biden curve doesn't look too great either.
Hardly surprising given most of what he's tried to di has been blocked
Vote for us! We'll also be significantly away from the target!
Has there ever been a worse political surrogate than post-2016 Hillary?
I assume we are playing in the Non-MAGA division, right?
Sure, excluding the worst crazies in MAGA World.
I suppose she could be. She lost to Trump for the sole reason that she was, rightly or wrongly, extremely unpopular. Biden would be better off sticking to the younger generation (Newsome, Whitmer, etc.) as his surrogates, but old man gonna do old man things.
Well he did try to get the EPA to do stuff and then the SC jumped in and killed it, not claiming he's perfect
I don't vote because I'm not eligible to
If one listens to Fox, one could believe that Biden has abolished the use of oil, and has the US ushering in eco-communism.
Maybe it could be a distraction tactic, get them focusing on her whilst everyone else is doing their thing
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I dont vote because I don't support genocide