2nd string against Chelsea? Or do we risk more tiredness

red4ever 79

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A cup win can ignite a spark and a winning mentality within the squad. There is no getting away from that. Similar to the 1990 cup win against Palace, it was a trophy the team badly needed to get them going. I have a feeling this could lead to something similar. Let's hope so
 

HailtotheKing

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I wouldn't water the team down, I'd keep going and build a spirit of togetherness between our best players.... our goals are in sight, defining moments and all that. We'll win every game if we set our minds to it!
Do you really think that? We already look like we're running on empty. Every team we play has had a longer rest than us. Plus on top of that we're travelling to London and back 3 times in succession. Chelsea have had 2 days extra rest so they should be fresher. Then West Ham will have had 2 days extra with nothing to lose. And they love bursting our bubble. Finally we rock up to Leicester when they've had almost a week to prepare and we've had 3 days. The fact every team has had more rest than us is going to make every one of these games harder. Not to mention the cumulative effect of playing so many games in succession. I just can't imagine that playing our full first team in the cup today could do anything other than run them into the ground and possibly risk injury. And if that happens rather than build a spirit of togetherness our dreams could come crashing to the ground. I hope I'm wrong. But I also hope Ole rests a few of our top 5 today. It's time for Fred and McTominay. Give Bruno / Pogba a rest. Rest Martial and Greenwood. Play Ighalo up top with pace either side (Rashford for 60 mins) James perhaps, or even Lingard to get amongst them. He's usually way better against big teams. Williams on the left. Not sure if TFM can play another game so quickly, so perhaps Dalot. Or maybe James and Wilson as wingback could work. Either way, please dont run us into the ground, Ole!
 

imamuppet

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I trust in what ever decision Ole chooses for this game.

The coaching staff will look at their data, they will talk with the players, Ole's presser not only informs the outside world what Ole thinks about the importance of the FA Cup and winning a trophy, but more importantly it is priming our players of the importance of it!

The little cavets and naunces Ole is dropping here and there are not by chance, having played and studied with SAF Ole is putting all this knowledge to good use, it takes a certain level of inteligence to understand this and Ole is definately showing/has shown sign that he get it.

:)

Would be very very suprised if he completely changed the starting 11 irrespective of all the opinions people have given in this thread.

That there has been "a notable downturn in performance" because of fatigue/tiredness is completely subjective.

Feels really strange to be having to point this out but football is like this, no team is ever performing close to 100% game after game after game.

The players are human beings not robots, that fatigue/tiredness may play a role and could have played a role i get it, but we are all looking from the outside in.

And I think people are way overplaying how good this Chelsea team is, irrespective of the result, some peeps are making them out to be alot better than they are......
 

Pav1878

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I trust in what ever decision Ole chooses for this game.

The coaching staff will look at their data, they will talk with the players, Ole's presser not only informs the outside world what Ole thinks about the importance of the FA Cup and winning a trophy, but more importantly it is priming our players of the importance of it!

The little cavets and naunces Ole is dropping here and there are not by chance, having played and studied with SAF Ole is putting all this knowledge to good use, it takes a certain level of inteligence to understand this and Ole is definately showing/has shown sign that he get it.

:)

Would be very very suprised if he completely changed the starting 11 irrespective of all the opinions people have given in this thread.

That there has been "a notable downturn in performance" because of fatigue/tiredness is completely subjective.

Feels really strange to be having to point this out but football is like this, no team is ever performing close to 100% game after game after game.

The players are human beings not robots, that fatigue/tiredness may play a role and could have played a role i get it, but we are all looking from the outside in.

And I think people are way overplaying how good this Chelsea team is, irrespective of the result, some peeps are making them out to be alot better than they are......
True. Keep Pulisic quiet and we have a good chance.
 

superdry

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Do you really think that? We already look like we're running on empty. Every team we play has had a longer rest than us. Plus on top of that we're travelling to London and back 3 times in succession. Chelsea have had 2 days extra rest so they should be fresher. Then West Ham will have had 2 days extra with nothing to lose. And they love bursting our bubble. Finally we rock up to Leicester when they've had almost a week to prepare and we've had 3 days. The fact every team has had more rest than us is going to make every one of these games harder. Not to mention the cumulative effect of playing so many games in succession. I just can't imagine that playing our full first team in the cup today could do anything other than run them into the ground and possibly risk injury. And if that happens rather than build a spirit of togetherness our dreams could come crashing to the ground. I hope I'm wrong. But I also hope Ole rests a few of our top 5 today. It's time for Fred and McTominay. Give Bruno / Pogba a rest. Rest Martial and Greenwood. Play Ighalo up top with pace either side (Rashford for 60 mins) James perhaps, or even Lingard to get amongst them. He's usually way better against big teams. Williams on the left. Not sure if TFM can play another game so quickly, so perhaps Dalot. Or maybe James and Wilson as wingback could work. Either way, please dont run us into the ground, Ole!
I understand and respect your opinion, but I would change the team in very small doses if any. It can be done, you've just got to want it enough. Like you I'm not an expert, it's just my opinion.
 

Pav1878

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I get the feelings on here about CL being more important and especially from a revenue point of view.

But seriously, if SAF had had the same thought process, the treble would never have happened!

We are a big club, going for big prizes. Let's man up and bring our balls to each game and win the lot. This is the business end of the season and there are trophies to be won.

Even Arsenal under Wenger, who prized fourth more than anyone, won the FA cup whilst qualifying for the CL!
 

Shiva87

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I think if there was 1 week between this and the West Ham game then of course we would go full strength, but many of us are worried that we played on Thursday and looked tired, we now face Chelsea 2 days later and could potentially go into extra time. We then have a huge match against West Ham on Wednesday.

We could potentially end up losing to Chelsea going full strength, then losing to West Ham being dead on our feet. Where does that leave us then? I'd love to win the FA cup and it would do the squad well I agree, but sometimes you just have to accept you can't win everything.

I'm sure Ole will see how the lads look in training and will make a decision, I feel he might be a little naive in wanting to win everything and having another PSG moment with the team collapsing with injury/tiredness.
I do want Ole to make a bunch of changes today to rest our players, but don't agree with some of the logic here. We should be focused on winning this game!

I think there is a pragmatic way to do it, and a 30 min spell for our front 5 together should do it. That's worth a gamble.

Our bench players should be good enough to make the game a bore-fest till 60 mins.
 

HailtotheKing

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I understand and respect your opinion, but I would change the team in very small doses if any. It can be done, you've just got to want it enough. Like you I'm not an expert, it's just my opinion.
My biggest fear is we are out of gas come the Leicester game. Cos they're gonna be bang up for it and fully rested. Hopefull they lose or draw with Spurs and we beat West Ham because I can see them really coming on to us in the final 25 minutes and there's nothing worse than seeing us camped in front of our box, just waiting for them to score because it usually happens. We just aren't solid enough. We'd need some Arsenal level luck. Meanwhile, another reason to play Fred etc. is that if one of our main players get injured, they'll be ready to come in and do a job. Gonna be exciting though either way. Love watching us play when we're in full flow. Just imagine what Sancho would do for us.
 

SirAF

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Gotta win the cup, can’t let fecking arsenal win it again!
 

RiqCantona

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Do you really think that? We already look like we're running on empty. Every team we play has had a longer rest than us. Plus on top of that we're travelling to London and back 3 times in succession. Chelsea have had 2 days extra rest so they should be fresher. Then West Ham will have had 2 days extra with nothing to lose. And they love bursting our bubble. Finally we rock up to Leicester when they've had almost a week to prepare and we've had 3 days. The fact every team has had more rest than us is going to make every one of these games harder. Not to mention the cumulative effect of playing so many games in succession. I just can't imagine that playing our full first team in the cup today could do anything other than run them into the ground and possibly risk injury. And if that happens rather than build a spirit of togetherness our dreams could come crashing to the ground. I hope I'm wrong. But I also hope Ole rests a few of our top 5 today. It's time for Fred and McTominay. Give Bruno / Pogba a rest. Rest Martial and Greenwood. Play Ighalo up top with pace either side (Rashford for 60 mins) James perhaps, or even Lingard to get amongst them. He's usually way better against big teams. Williams on the left. Not sure if TFM can play another game so quickly, so perhaps Dalot. Or maybe James and Wilson as wingback could work. Either way, please dont run us into the ground, Ole!
Have to agree. I think there is a logic to resting/rotating. Look at it this way, if we play our best team - we might still lose as there is no guarantee that we WILL WIN for sure, but they will certainly be knackered for the next 2 games. Mind you, West Ham and Leicester are of utmost importance to us. Suppose, we do play our best team, somehow lose against Chelsea, players are tired as hell, forcing us to rotate against West Ham and then Leicester - and god forbid, we drop points because of that - we might be left with nothing. That's what is scaring me the most!

Now suppose, we rotate today - rest 4-5 key players (Pogba, Bruno, Martial, Rashford, AWB, etc.), play a second XI - we might win, or we might not. But then, we will at least have fresher players for the rest of the games irrespective of the result. Probability wise, a fresh first XI should be able to do the job against West Ham and Leicester. A win today would be awesome of course - and we should win given that its Chelsea who haven't exactly been world beaters this season.

Mind you, we have used what little bench we have for a major part of this season. Pogba was injured for most of it, we only got Bruno in January, Rashford and Martial had spells out of the team as well. FA Cup semi-final or not - its about balancing the work load of the players. SAF could manage to win multiple trophies a season because of the insane bench that he had at his disposal almost always. I don't see why we can't trust the guys on the bench to do the job today.

Safest and most sensible option for me is to rotate today. And I am really hoping that Ole makes the right decision with the selection.
 
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Greck

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I do want Ole to make a bunch of changes today to rest our players, but don't agree with some of the logic here. We should be focused on winning this game!

I think there is a pragmatic way to do it, and a 30 min spell for our front 5 together should do it. That's worth a gamble.

Our bench players should be good enough to make the game a bore-fest till 60 mins.
Yes, also pretty sure any manager in Ole's position will also be massively tempted by the prospect of having a cup win on his resume. Would be his first trophy in England. Am not so sure he'll see top 4 and the FA cup as a pick one scenario
 

hanovercigars

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SAF was never in a position where he had to risk either the FA cup or Champions League qualification. He finished top 3 every season.

You also have to take into account that if Ole fails to get Champions League football for next year there is a reasonable chance he gets the sack (as his predecessors have done). Are we prepared to risk having another rebuild under a new manager for the chance of an FA cup final?
 

ICHM

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Start the first team, it's a FA cup semi final FFS. If we are losing by 2 or winning by 2, take them off.
 

Adam-Utd

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Start the first team, it's a FA cup semi final FFS. If we are losing by 2 or winning by 2, take them off.
That just won’t happen though will it? If we’re losing he will throw even more on to chase the game.

the only situation this works is we go 3-0 up very early and cruise to the final whistle, but I cannot see this happening.
 

ZupZup

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BeardedGenius on Twitter just pointed out that a loss today and we lose momentum and a bit of belief going into the final two games. Absolutely true and another reason we should be going full strength today.
 

Bilbo

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Ole is no mug, and he will have access to all kinds of performance and conditioning data and also, crucially, interaction with the players themselves.

One thing for certain he will definitely want to win this game and get to the final, and our opponents are facing the same dilemma with squad freshness as we are, so it wouldn't surprise me to see the same XI as the last few games. Try to get the game won and make changes. It also wouldn't surprise me to see him make 4 or 5 changes and contain it for an hour before bringing on match winners.

Extra time is also a factor here that neither side will want, and also both teams will be affected by the Leicester result depending on how that goes. Its going to an interesting day
 

Berbaclass

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Just like Arsenal with Wenger? Spurs with Poch?
So we should just forget about it then presumably?

What a stupid thing to say.

You don’t go from 5th to 1st overnight, it takes time to transition into genuine title contenders with how far behind we’ve been finishing. Getting back in the CL is the 1st milestone, and an indication that we are moving forward. You’re inferring that I said finishing 4th is the end goal somehow. I’d like you to point out where I actually said that rather than just making silly comments about clubs I couldn’t care less about.

I will say again because you obviously didn’t read it. Qualifying for the Champions League should be absolute bare minimum...
 

Bastian

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BeardedGenius on Twitter just pointed out that a loss today and we lose momentum and a bit of belief going into the final two games. Absolutely true and another reason we should be going full strength today.
You can make any sort of "argument" like that. What does BeardedGenius on Twitter say about running our players into the ground and not having energy for West Ham? Does he have anything in his vocabulary for that?

It's so obvious they are knackered. They would get a buzz from reaching the final, but it won't magically freshen them up as if they'd not been playing +2 games a week.
 

JPB

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Any of you thinking Ole or Lampard will play a B team in an FA Cup Semi Final are crazy. Both of them are in reaching distance of their first trophy. They"ll do everything they can to win it. we might see one or two changes, but it will be the strongest team for the most part. Ole was even asked ''which is more important, the Top 4 finish or the Cup win?'' And he said '"we take one game at a time, at the moment the Chelsea game is our top priority." Like it should be.
 

ZupZup

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You can make any sort of "argument" like that. What does BeardedGenius on Twitter say about running our players into the ground and not having energy for West Ham? Does he have anything in his vocabulary for that?

It's so obvious they are knackered. They would get a buzz from reaching the final, but it won't magically freshen them up as if they'd not been playing +2 games a week.
They have been playing regularly but how many actual games have we had since the restart? It’s not obvious they are knackered at all... we looked fitter against Palace than we did in the previous match vs Southampton.

You watch tennis players play 7 longer matches in two weeks and yet football players aren’t fit enough to play two or three times a week? The very players you call ‘knackered’ from your armchair would completely disagree with you. And they’d be right because how could you possibly have a clue? Imagine someone on the Caf actually telling a professional footballer that they need to be rested for the FA cup semi final because you’ve decided from watching their last match on the telly, that they are a bit tired.
 

TMDaines

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SAF was never in a position where he had to risk either the FA cup or Champions League qualification. He finished top 3 every season.

You also have to take into account that if Ole fails to get Champions League football for next year there is a reasonable chance he gets the sack (as his predecessors have done). Are we prepared to risk having another rebuild under a new manager for the chance of an FA cup final?
You are being a little naive for thinking any United manager would stay in the job for a more than a couple of seasons without winning anything. Top 4 finishes don’t keep Ole or anyone else on the job long term.

Top 4 finishes don’t even keep you in the Spurs job.
 

RkkMan

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You are being a little naive for thinking any United manager would stay in the job for a more than a couple of seasons without winning anything. Top 4 finishes don’t keep Ole or anyone else on the job long term.

Top 4 finishes don’t even keep you in the Spurs job.
We sacked LVG for winning the FA Cup when he finished 5th....................
 

JPB

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We sacked LVG for winning the FA Cup when he finished 5th....................
The sack was coming regardless. he would have gotten the sack if he finished top 4. the reason he got sacked was because Mourinho was available.
 

TMDaines

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They have been playing regularly but how many actual games have we had since the restart? It’s not obvious they are knackered at all... we looked fitter against Palace than we did in the previous match vs Southampton.

You watch tennis players play 7 longer matches in two weeks and yet football players aren’t fit enough to play two or three times a week? The very players you call ‘knackered’ from your armchair would completely disagree with you. And they’d be right because how could you possibly have a clue? Imagine someone on the Caf actually telling a professional footballer that they need to be rested for the FA cup semi final because you’ve decided from watching their last match on the telly, that they are a bit tired.
Indeed. fecking bizarre how people are aspiring to be Spurs.

There’s been a greater growth in fitness coaches in the last two weeks on here than virologists in all of 2020
 

TMDaines

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We sacked LVG for winning the FA Cup when he finished 5th....................
Sure. I didn’t say winning cups alone would keep you in the job either. We’re talking about a super club here: you need compete on all fronts, win trophies, ensure qualification for the CL more often than not, have a team that fans and sponsors want to be associated with (either via aesthetics or success), and not bring the club into disrepute.
 

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Play the groundsman, the tea lady, and Eddie himself could be in goal. Fill the rest of the team by putting a shirt on random passersby just before the game starts, then throwing them onto the pitch. Sure they'll be a bit confused but they'll get over it.
 

Bastian

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They have been playing regularly but how many actual games have we had since the restart? It’s not obvious they are knackered at all... we looked fitter against Palace than we did in the previous match vs Southampton.

You watch tennis players play 7 longer matches in two weeks and yet football players aren’t fit enough to play two or three times a week? The very players you call ‘knackered’ from your armchair would completely disagree with you. And they’d be right because how could you possibly have a clue? Imagine someone on the Caf actually telling a professional footballer that they need to be rested for the FA cup semi final because you’ve decided from watching their last match on the telly, that they are a bit tired.
OK. We disagree. I find it obvious over the last three games that they are in dire need of rest, you think they are robots.
 

ZupZup

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OK. We disagree. I find it obvious over the last three games that they are in dire need of rest, you think they are robots.
Nah. I just think they are professional footballers. You think they play for the Dog and Duck.
 

ottosec

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We're very close to a trophy here, but I think we should rest a few players. Some of them looked knackered midweek and we have 3 games in the next 7 days.

It's unfortunate that in today's football 4th place is more important than an actual trophy, but what can we do?
 

Lee565

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Why are fans ignoring the fact that we still have the europa league that we can win to achieve the supposed "winning mentality" that only supposedly can be gained from winning the fa cup, liverpool didnt have to win it before walking to the league title, arsenal have won it plenty of times in the past 16 years and it still didnt transfer a mentality to win any major trophies.

How is winning the fa cup going to benefit us if it cost us a champions league spot and not being able to sign the likes of sancho and having to make do with bloody james again next season starting over a dozen of games on our right wing.
 

MadMike

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From the matchday thread...

Personally I'd rest players because:
a) we have 2 finals coming up that we absolutely need to win
b) the team was looking leggy in the last 2 games.

Also if we get 2 wins in the Prem, there's a good chance we'll get top 3 and avoid CL qualifiers. EL can then be our chance of silverware for this season, without the pressure of CL qualification hanging in the balance. FA cup semi is coming at completely the wrong time for us.
 

JB7

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We're very close to a trophy here, but I think we should rest a few players. Some of them looked knackered midweek and we have 3 games in the next 7 days.

It's unfortunate that in today's football 4th place is more important than an actual trophy, but what can we do?
It isn't.
 

MadMike

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They have been playing regularly but how many actual games have we had since the restart? It’s not obvious they are knackered at all... we looked fitter against Palace than we did in the previous match vs Southampton.

You watch tennis players play 7 longer matches in two weeks and yet football players aren’t fit enough to play two or three times a week? The very players you call ‘knackered’ from your armchair would completely disagree with you. And they’d be right because how could you possibly have a clue? Imagine someone on the Caf actually telling a professional footballer that they need to be rested for the FA cup semi final because you’ve decided from watching their last match on the telly, that they are a bit tired.
Apples and submarines. You're comparing two entirely different things.

Tennis players have a 2-3 week tournament followed by a month of rest and preparation till the next. Football goes on for months on end. Football involves travel between games while tennis is in one place, minimising travel. Also tennis players in a tournament have played the same numbers of games when they face each other(albeit avg duration can differ). But in football, one team can play 40 games in a season and another can play 65-70. The team with 70 obviously needs a deeper squad and more rotation. Because the players will be more fatigued compared to their fresher rivals if you don't rotate.
 

Adam-Utd

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They have been playing regularly but how many actual games have we had since the restart? It’s not obvious they are knackered at all... we looked fitter against Palace than we did in the previous match vs Southampton.

You watch tennis players play 7 longer matches in two weeks and yet football players aren’t fit enough to play two or three times a week? The very players you call ‘knackered’ from your armchair would completely disagree with you. And they’d be right because how could you possibly have a clue? Imagine someone on the Caf actually telling a professional footballer that they need to be rested for the FA cup semi final because you’ve decided from watching their last match on the telly, that they are a bit tired.
Comparing tennis with football :lol: I’ve seen it all now.

tennis players are in action for about 15 seconds on average, then rest for another 30 seconds in between taking a serve. Yes the length is more but it’s way more stop starting which is way easier to maintain.

anyway the proof is in our performances, the only players who looked themselves were rashford and martial. The rest looked dead.

I have a bad feeling we’re going to run Bruno into the ground and get him injured, then our “confidence and motivation” goes right out the window.
 

TMDaines

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Apples and submarines. You're comparing two entirely different things.

Tennis players have a 2-3 week tournament followed by a month of rest and preparation till the next. Football goes on for months on end. Football involves travel between games while tennis is in one place, minimising travel. Also tennis players in a tournament have played the same numbers of games when they face each other(albeit avg duration can differ). But in football, one team can play 40 games in a season and another can play 65-70. The team with 70 obviously needs a deeper squad and more rotation. Because the players will be more fatigued compared to their fresher rivals if you don't rotate.
I don’t think you are actually familiar with the scheduling of the ATP Tour and demands on the modern elite tennis players.
 
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BeardedGenius on Twitter just pointed out that a loss today and we lose momentum and a bit of belief going into the final two games. Absolutely true and another reason we should be going full strength today.
100% the right attitude.

I disagree with a large part of our fanbase, we should be taking each game as it comes and putting out our best team in a semi final of the FA Cup.

If Arsenal win it this year they go two ahead of us, if we win, we go back level.

We can still make 5 subs, that is fine for rotating/ resting players.