You said everything can't be blamed on tiredness after I said the last two games we looked knackered. You don't make that better by just simply playing the same players because they either will get injured or just play poorly.
2nd string against Chelsea? Or do we risk more tiredness
- Thread starter Adam-Utd
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Bruno needs resting most of all.
People are also pretending that we're winning if we play the first team, like it's a foregone conclusion. Chelsea might very well beat our best eleven and we then follow up with dropping points vs West Ham due to fatigue, taking the worst of both worlds.
Most people are idiots and don't have a fecking clue what they're talking about. How many times have we beaten Arsenal this season and how many times have we beaten City?
Excellent post.
Bingo
Yes slow starts are not solely down to fatigue mate.
We’ve played neither since covid so that’s irrelevant. In this moment in time I’ll take dealing with David Luiz and Guendouzi than Laporte and De Bruyne. That’s my opinion anyways
I'm not talking about slow starts, it's you that keeps saying that.
We've been shit in general because of fatigue. Southampton and Palace being the prime examples.
So if we make 7 changes and we’re shit tomorrow is that also fatigue ?
What are you even talking about
Maybe I shouldn’t compare but those performances against Southampton and Palace are very reminiscent of end of season games of title winning seasons under Ferguson. You do enough and those 4 points are massive. The other sids are in a similar position with a lot of games in shirt time frame. But I am very much in the belief you just keep going and give everything with best possible team for these last 2 maybe 3 games. Then rest everyone against LASK and then go again.
Could obviously happen, but wouldn't you agree that beating West Ham with our best and somewhat rested eleven is more likely than beating Chelsea?
A rested team will beat West Ham but our currently tired team will struggle to beat Chelsea tomorrow IMO.
Replying to your post mate .What are you even talking about
Romero
Dalot - Bailly - Maguire - Lindelof - Williams
McTominay - Fred
Lingard
Rashford - Martial
Back 5, hard-working midfield. Sit deep and let Chelsea pass the ball around aimlessly in midfield and smash them on the counter with our golden boys upfront.
Dalot - Bailly - Maguire - Lindelof - Williams
McTominay - Fred
Lingard
Rashford - Martial
Back 5, hard-working midfield. Sit deep and let Chelsea pass the ball around aimlessly in midfield and smash them on the counter with our golden boys upfront.
I said we've been poor in the last two games mainly because our players are tired. You then asked if we make 7 changes and lose will that be down to fatigue too.
The two things have nothing to do with one another.
If we make 7 changes we will be a great deal weaker, and that is probably why we would lose.
The lack of creativity in that team is frighteningly bad. We’d basically be relying on long balls to Rashford & Martial.
Surely everyone on here knows Arsenal wouldn't be a complete walkover, it'd be an FA Cup Final. But yeah...I mean, Arsenal are the team you want in this final, don't think that's a controversial opinion.
You disagree with that statement?
Presumably Norwich being shit with a heavily rotated team being an example of our fatigue.What are you even talking about
The “X looks tired” with no data to support it is the new “Y wants it more”, “Z doesn’t care enough”, etc. It’s lazy and unsubstantiated. There’s so much stuff out there publicly, it would great if people would spend two mins supporting their arguments.
People are lamenting the Palace performance but if we play like that across the 90 across bottom half sides across the season, we’d likely be second in the league. We created enough and conceded little enough to win that 70-80% of the time – and that’s being held up as a bad performance!
Possibly. Which would be a problem if we were playing a defensive team. But Chelsea will want the ball and push-up. They'll be plenty of space for Rashford, Martial and Lingard to counter.
No way would I rest de gea after his good performance against palace, and pogba has to play. Matic will start after not starting thursdall probably agree with greenwood left out and also agree with a back 5. Bruno is the interesting one. He did look tired, but very hard to leave him out
I very much disagree with that. It doesn't take an expert to see that somebody is physically tired.
I want to rest players not just to prevent injuries and help keep them a little fresh for the next two games, but also because it simply looks like they're in the red zone. I basically feel it's counter-productive to play them when they're visibly tired. I think our last couple of performances have been telling and I just don't see the point in playing tired players who will not perform well.
I'm not advocating a change of 11 but I actually think we'll have a better chance if we rotate half the team and freshen it up. Because if we perform like we have the past two games, and I'm attributing a lot of it too fatigue, then we'll lose anyway. Then they will just be knackered for the remaining two games. I'd prefer us to "weaken the team" with fresh legs, still giving us a chance of beating Chelsea, while saving legs for our next two leaguer fixtures
I'm not advocating a change of 11 but I actually think we'll have a better chance if we rotate half the team and freshen it up. Because if we perform like we have the past two games, and I'm attributing a lot of it too fatigue, then we'll lose anyway. Then they will just be knackered for the remaining two games. I'd prefer us to "weaken the team" with fresh legs, still giving us a chance of beating Chelsea, while saving legs for our next two leaguer fixtures
McTominay and Fred were playing well before. They should start. I think Mata and Odion and James should play. It's the defense that's the problem. Also the injuries. If either Martial or Rashford gets injured we are done for.
I can't see us beating Chelsea and West Ham with the same team.
Ole has to make that call. I think however he is going to put out the strongest team he can put out.
AWB, Bruno, needs to be rested in my opinion. I think TFM is going to play.
I can't see us beating Chelsea and West Ham with the same team.
Ole has to make that call. I think however he is going to put out the strongest team he can put out.
AWB, Bruno, needs to be rested in my opinion. I think TFM is going to play.
It fecking does considering the players who often get slammed on here for their mobility, effort and standards of fitness are often those who post the most impressive physical output.
The data to support it was less possession compared to the first few games after Covid, and players like Bruno covering much less distance and playing well below par. You can see by your eyes that he's running less, his passing has got a lot worse and he's generally not effecting the game anywhere near like he did at the start. I'm worried we are going to run him into the ground when we need him the most.
You use Arsenal as an example but they've not played the same team every game for the last 2 weeks. They've rotated a lot more, and look fresher for it.
While I don't blame Ole for sticking with the same team (we were flying) you have to admit performances have dropped off. Hopefully i'm completely wrong, but i'm expecting Ole to put out the same team that played 2 days ago. Chelsea have rested for 5 days and will have the legs come the end of the match.
Maybe i'm being a pessimist but I can see us having a tough match here, losing and then going into the west ham game with 2 days rest against West Ham who have 5 days. If we drop points against West Ham we can kiss goodbye top 4, and personally I'd take top 4 this summer over an FA cup.
TLDR; If we chase both we could end up with neither and it'll be a failed season.
So you disagree that the players are jaded after the intense schedule we've had recently then?
Got to play the best team now. Let's get this trophy.
Yeah David has been improved recently but Romero deserves game time, and the FA Cup is the least of our priorities. If we don't manage to get top 4 then David will also be playing our Europa fixtures.
Also think Fred and McTominay deserve a big game after having good seasons and little game time recently. Bruno looked tired the last two games so definitely should be on the bench.
Playing our best team still doesn't mean we will win the trophy or get to the final. Is it worth the risk to potentially harm our Champions League chances?
No. It’s that we don’t have enough quality in depth. It’s not rocket science.
It seems that people are happy to ignore the clear signs of fatigue and will just keep playing the same players over and over until they either can't run intensely or get injured.
I just hope to god we get out the game with no injuries and can give the players rest. I bet it'll go into extra time and we will be fecked.
Yeah, it seems that way, unfortunately. Anything less than 4 changes is a big mistake IMO. Bruno, AWB, Pogba and Martial/Rashford (maybe both) need resting.
We need to trust our squad and the players that come in to replace them. You don't win anything by just playing the same team every week because it catches up to you like we're seeing now.
Define jaded. It’s such a meaningless term. We’re one shitty JWP corner from winning - and deservedly winning - every game since Spurs, and that’s the one game we had copious amounts of rest for.
The only player I think would genuinely benefit from a bit less game time is AWB. We’ve asked a lot of him since letting Young go. He’s the only one I look at and think we might get a better performance out of in a week’s time if we give him the next match off. Everyone else looks fit, looks hungry, looks confident, and looks like they’d derive more from another win than they would watching a match from the sidelines not go their way. There’s no way I’d be leaving out Maguire or Bruno who set the standards. There’s no way I’m leaving out Rashford and Martial who look more driven than ever, in an absolutely selfless partnership. There’s no way I’m leaving out Pogba who’s a fecking winning who wants the club to match his ambition.
There’s still plenty of scope to rotate in fresh legs around those guys. I’ve never argued for us to play the same XI each week.
Whats your XI?
Honestly if Rashford or Bruno play tomorrow I will be fecking furious. Both need resting. Ole has a substitute's mentality to squad rotation. He's never experienced tiredness.
1. I'm pretty sure you know what jaded means, if not google it, don't be lazy. Also, hardly it's meaningless as it literally does have a meaning which you claim not to know yet dispute my use of it.
2. The Spurs game was pretty unprecedented. You're naive if you don't understand that too much rest is bad also.
3. Bruno Fernandes is tired, his attacking output has trailed off and has been less effective in the last two games. He is also showing clear, visible signs of being tired. If you wish to dispute this then go get some numbers to prove me wrong and I'll happily admit that I'm wrong.
4. The very players you say you can't/don't want to leave out are the very ones that have consistently played the most minutes and are most at risk from potential injury and just general fatigue.