4 Failed Managerial Appointments in 8 Years

[Abhinav]

As we inch towards another manager sacking, wanted to discuss how can the club save the supporters from future heartache? As bad as it feels right now, it will be even worse if we make another disastrous appointment and are back to square one in a couple of years time.
Wanted to discuss two key questions:
1) When should we make the change? A) Immediately and hire whoever is available currently B) Take our time and make the change only when we are convinced if we have got the right guy for the job, even if it means we retain Ole till the summer?
2) Who should be involved in making that decision? A) Should Sir Alex play a major role in the next appointment? B) Should we hire outside advisors, completely delinked from the club to give their recommendations to the board? C) Leave it to the judgement of the current executives & directors including Ed Woodward, Fletcher & John Murtough?
With the amount of investment made in the squad, the dwindling patience of the fanbase with each failed appointment, it is imperative that we get the next appointment right if we want to stay relevant as an elite football club.

 

[Skills]

*Only 4

 

[Blood Mage]

Woodward is packing his bags so that's a start, but the jury is still very much out on Judge, Murtough and Fletcher.

 

[Ixion]

Chelsea are on their 6th or 7th

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Really our problems have always been more than the managers.

I mean you can’t go from having a manager like Van Gaal to a manager like Mourinho and not expect the club to be a basket case.

 

[Flytan]

I don't know how they hired all our managers but sentimentality needs to be ignored. It's how ole got the job and how they tried to sell Moyes. Lvg and mourinho were past it but they were at least good managers and qualified at some point for United. Sentimentality on Ole and moyes were awful choices.


I'd also like to go a new route of hiring somebody that can implement their plan with our current squad. Obviously they'll need a player or two but the squad has enough talent to challenge for trophies now

 

[stw2022]

High managerial turnover until we find the right one isn’t a bad thing

 

[Hugh Jass]

Groundhog day.

 

[Abhinav]

Chelsea are on their 6th or 7th

Tuchel is actually the 5th Chelsea manager since Moyes was appointed at United. In that time they have been far more successful so a case could be made that we need to be more ruthless & embrace the fail fast approach. However, given our historical past, it seems unlikely that out approach is going to change anytime soon.

 

[Blood Mage]

Really our problems have always been more than the managers.

I mean you can’t go from having a manager like Van Gaal to a manager like Mourinho and not expect the club to be a basket case.

True but that doesn't mean Ole shouldn't be sacked. The club's next step should be to collectively decide how they want the team to play and appoint a manager who can implement that style. But they won't do that, because they're clueless.

 

[frostbite]

The problem is we keep the managers for too long after it is obvious they are not the right person for the job. Should be more ruthless. There is no point waiting for the next SAF and giving him 6 years to fail because he will be here for 26 years... this is a bygone era. We should get someone capable, someone who is at the top of his game right now. At any job, this can be seen in a couple of months, you don't need years and years to find out if someone is a good fit or not.

 

[SirAnderson]

Should be more, Watford style.

 

[Tyrion]

High managerial turnover until we find the right one isn’t a bad thing

Agreed. Consistency is the main thing. I've heard the club talking about attacking football and preferring young players recently but that was ignored during Mourinho's time which suggests they switch approaches completely based on the managers.

The club should define the type of manager you go for, not the other way around.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Real Madrid’s managers between sacking Del Bosque and winning La Decima:

Queiroz, Camacho, Luxemburgo, Lopez, Capello, Schuster, Ramos, Pellegrini, Mourinho.

All in the space of 10 years, and that’s not counting interims.

Players are expensive, managers are cheap. As long as you have a competent DoF, sack to your heart’s content.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The real problem has been that 4 is is too few considering the money spent and such little success. I’d say us fans are partly to blame, Moyes got as long as he deserved, probably a few months too many, LvG we were rather ruthless with but 2 years of it was enough, it, like Mourinho in hindsight was a bad appointment from the off.

Ole’s the mad one though, worst CV by a mile, no success like LvG or Mou, given shit loads more money, some horrendous football, yet my god we’ve given him 3 years, 3 fecking years. It’s been the daftest appointment of all, condemned by the time with no success we’ve given him due to some bollocks about a reset and culture. No other big club in the entire fecking World gives a man with no CV 400 million quid and 3 years with no success, it’s utterly bonkers.

 

[andersj]

The Glazers are such a bunch of losers. Imagine all the money they have thrown away. They lack competence and winning mentality and our club is now a reflection of that. Will be until they give up.

 

[Rozay]

Ole certainly hasn’t been a failed appointment. Not to me. His only real failure has been this season so far. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the work needed to turn us from where we were into title winners being a two manager job. Ole has not failed at the first leg of that journey to me. The only problem is that his relative success at the first part of the journey has deluded him, and the club, seemingly - into believing he is also the right man for the second and final phase.

While he had the credentials for what we needed at first, such as a positive spirit, an understanding of club ethos etc, he was clearly under qualified to then take the next step of taking a young and talented squad that final stretch to silverware. If Ole left in the summer and a top manager was brought in, I can’t see how anyone could describe the two seasons as a failed appointment. But he is way out of his depth right now, and his freestyling, positive attitude approach will not deliver honours. But we had no business thinking about major honours when he came in. We could barely get into the Champions League.

 

[MoskvaRed]

In response to the OP’s two questions-

1) if the right man isn’t available now, wait rather than rush into bad appointment no.5. Appoint a caretaker if necessary (but don’t appoint the caretaker fulltime!).

2) this is the key question. I don’t trust the executives and I don’t want Fergie (or any of his ex-players) involved in the decision. The club badly needs to move on from that era and the received ideas derived from it - lengthy rebuilds, long-term tenures etc. Use outside advice maybe, although I wouldn’t know where exactly you would get expert, disinterested advice.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Considering how bad we have been in that time we should have had more managers than 4!

 

[Abhinav]

Really our problems have always been more than the managers.

I mean you can’t go from having a manager like Van Gaal to a manager like Mourinho and not expect the club to be a basket case.

In a way, but none of the appointments really looked right, did they?
1) Moyes - Always looked a hopeful punt rather than a rational choice. Didn’t have the aura or the historical achievements to ever be a success
2) LVG - was a spent force and not really a top class manager at the time of his appointment. He was rumoured to be close to the Spurs job and that was his real level
3) Jose - The wrong fit and again on a downward trajectory
4) Ole - Good choice for a caretaker, should have thanked him & appointed a different permanent manager. Did not have the credentials nor did he show any future potential

 

[arthurka]

LVG and Mourinho were shit choices. Hopefully we have some idea now what we are and will hire a manager that could fit that mould and work with the players we got.

 

[marktan]

A very valid question and one that I'm worried about too. I don't trust the higher ups to get the next appointment right. As such as has been mentioned we really need to change to a rotating 1 year review of managers, the SAF story of being given time is incredibly unlikely to happen again so we really need to forget about the whole give it time methodology.

Personally I'd love someone like Graham Potter whose coaching is very good, but I have a feeling the higher ups will go for Conte or Zidane based on their name.

The most damning thing about Woodward and co is the fact that they hired Ole on an interim based until the summer, to look at managers and assess. They then proceeded to give him the full time job 10 matches in. Why? Why not wait until the summer and do a comprehensive search? It just reeks of incompetence. Teams like Brentford, Brighton are leagues ahead of us in recruitment currently because their higher ups are made of people who made their bones in data, football and strong analysis.

 

[Sviken]

You can't win anything if you don't take risks. Not every manager is going to be a hit, but as long as we look for a way out, eventually we're going to hit it the nail. Problem is this board is absolutely spineless and their decision making is beyond bad. They just know nothing about football.

 

[Will Singh]

If things ain’t going right and it’s down to the manager then sack him, I don’t see what counting how many has to do with it? Should we keep Ole just because we’ve sacked to many managers?

 

[RUCK4444]

LVG and Mourinho were shit choices. Hopefully we have some idea now what we are and will hire a manager that could fit that mould and work with the players we got.

I very much doubt our owners have a feckin clue or a single candidate in mind, which has been my biggest concern and hesitation to sack Ole until this seasons poor form.

 

[RedBanker]

Modern football works this way. No room for sentiments. Just look up how many managers Real, Bayern, Barca, Chelsea etc. have had in the last 15 years. They have evolved to the new model. We have remained obsessed about shit such as longevity, loyalty, purity, soul, identity, and other such stuff.

 

[::sonny::]

The real problem has been that 4 is is too few considering the money spent and such little success. I’d say us fans are partly to blame, Moyes got as long as he deserved, probably a few months too many, LvG we were rather ruthless with but 2 years of it was enough, it, like Mourinho in hindsight was a bad appointment from the off.

Ole’s the mad one though, worst CV by a mile, no success like LvG or Mou, given shit loads more money, some horrendous football, yet my god we’ve given him 3 years, 3 fecking years. It’s been the daftest appointment of all, condemned by the time with no success we’ve given him due to some bollocks about a reset and culture. No other big club in the entire fecking World gives a man with no CV 400 million quid and 3 years with no success, it’s utterly bonkers.

Football is this

People without a professional cv can manage big clubs for years spending millions without a strategy or a idea

He doesn’t even know the reason why he signed Sancho, De Beek, Telles

 

[MonkeysMagic]

In footballing terms, we have one of the most incompetent owners going. To inherent a team that were serial winners to one that is now just a vehicle for their commercial income, takes some doing. I'm afraid, until the current owners leave Utd won't be a footballing force. Yes we might win the odd cup and strive to compete for top 4 but that's it. Not just the first tram but the whole structure of the club going to lower age groups is just set up to fail.

 

[United Irishman]

Neville's rationale that we have had the best in class, as a manager, when Mourinho was here is infuriating. Was he not paying attention to Mourinho's career in the preceding 5 years?

Even if he was the best in the world, (he clearly was not), his failings shouldn't be a reason for not trying to appoint the best manager possible.

Woodward has compounded mistakes with more mistakes at every turn. The managerial appointments are barely believable. Ole wouldn't be in the top 250 candidates for the job if he wasn't a past player. Not his fault though, that's on Woodward.

 

[Flexdegea]

Ole certainly hasn’t been a failed appointment. Not to me. His only real failure has been this season so far. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the work needed to turn us from where we were into title winners being a two manager job. Ole has not failed at the first leg of that journey to me. The only problem is that his relative success at the first part of the journey has deluded him, and the club, seemingly - into believing he is also the right man for the second and final phase.

While he had the credentials for what we needed at first, such as a positive spirit, an understanding of club ethos etc, he was clearly under qualified to then take the next step of taking a young and talented squad that final stretch to silverware. If Ole left in the summer and a top manager was brought in, I can’t see how anyone could describe the two seasons as a failed appointment. But he is way out of his depth right now, and his freestyling, positive attitude approach will not deliver honours. But we had no business thinking about major honours when he came in. We could barely get into the Champions League.

How I feel at the moment.


Feel like all the good work he done getting washed away with how bad we are and people are feeling vindicated now because he doing a bad bad job this season.

 

[Offside]

Was bound to happen after Ferguson left, especially considering he was carrying us for his final 4 years.

 

[Reditus]

Our squad is in the best place right now post Ferguson

Ole deserves the credit for this, even though it is becoming clear he cannot go the next step. If the next appointment is the right one, he will have a fantastic base to take the club forward and will walk into a far better situation than when Ole initially took the role

 

[Revan]

As we inch towards another manager sacking, wanted to discuss how can the club save the supporters from future heartache? As bad as it feels right now, it will be even worse if we make another disastrous appointment and are back to square one in a couple of years time.
Wanted to discuss two key questions:
1) When should we make the change? A) Immediately and hire whoever is available currently B) Take our time and make the change only when we are convinced if we have got the right guy for the job, even if it means we retain Ole till the summer?
2) Who should be involved in making that decision? A) Should Sir Alex play a major role in the next appointment? B) Should we hire outside advisors, completely delinked from the club to give their recommendations to the board? C) Leave it to the judgement of the current executives & directors including Ed Woodward, Fletcher & John Murtough?
With the amount of investment made in the squad, the dwindling patience of the fanbase with each failed appointment, it is imperative that we get the next appointment right if we want to stay relevant as an elite football club.

1A) Immediately. 1b) Nope, get a good manager now, and reconsider in the summer. No shame into sacking managers multiple times per year.

2) Ideally, we would have had a proper structure, but instead we have two rookies there, so probably we are gonna feck it up again.
2A) Absolutely not. He fecked up with Moyes, and apparently was involved/recommended Ole. No need for him to feck it up again.
2B) Yes, absolutely. I have no faith in the current setup.
2C) Lord, help us.

Personally, if I was the owner of the club, I would appoint whichever of Zidane and Conte is willing to come, and then raid Ajax in the summer. VDS as CEO, discuss with him to get an experienced director of football and other club directors, see to continue Zidane/Conte or sack them to hire ten Hag.

 

[Abhinav]

How I feel at the moment.


Feel like all the good work he done getting washed away with how bad we are and people are feeling vindicated now because he doing a bad bad job this season.

I also felt that he did a decent job till the end of last season. Ultimately, I would still call it a failed appointment because we are no where near to the big two trophies and that is what counts as success at a club like Manchester United.

 

[Flytan]

How I feel at the moment.


Feel like all the good work he done getting washed away with how bad we are and people are feeling vindicated now because he doing a bad bad job this season.

Well yeah, because "all of his hard work" (i disagree he actually did anything other than stabilize the club) is being unraveled by his and his coaching staffs awful work. Sure he did some good things sometimes but none of it was anything substantial and there aren't any trophies, so all of it is easily undone. If he leaves now his managerial career is a failure because he has nothing to show for it. If we won the europa or something we could point to something tangible but he didn't. He spent 400m and the squad is in exactly the same place it was when he was hired and it's getting nearly as toxic.

 

[Adisa]

There's really nothing special about it. You keep sacking until you find the right man. Clubs have had more managers in the same timeframe while being more successful.

 

[Revan]

Real Madrid’s managers between sacking Del Bosque and winning La Decima:

Queiroz, Camacho, Luxemburgo, Lopez, Capello, Schuster, Ramos, Pellegrini, Mourinho.

All in the space of 10 years, and that’s not counting interims.

Players are expensive, managers are cheap. As long as you have a competent DoF, sack to your heart’s content.

Bingo. For whatever reasons, United fans (most of them) seem to have it completely wrong. They seem content with the manager replacing players in the hundreds of millions, rather than replacing the manager who costs feck all, comparatively speaking.

The only exceptions are truly world class managers, like Pep or Klopp. And even in that case, you might tolerate a season of failure, no need for more than that.

 

[Abraxas]

I think it's getting to the point where you can't just keep saying that the only problem is the manager. Or this justification that Moyes and Ole aren't good enough and LVG and Jose past it, even though they were highly qualified, what will the next throwaway explanation be? There seems to be a feeling among many that he is the sole and only problem, the players are good enough, Conte or insert X manager can come in and instantly create a title contending side.

I don't buy it, it reminds me of England. We saw a procession of managers, some of them highly qualified and they couldn't get a tune out of them. That happened over and over. Years later you begin to understand there were deeper issues in terms of relationships and the qualities of the players that made it nearly impossible.

I'm wondering to what extent our structure is now fit for purpose, to enable us to appoint a manager with some confidence according to a direction. Or whether it's really just hit and hope with a hired gun and hope they can work some magic.

 

[charlenefan]

Really our problems have always been more than the managers.

I mean you can’t go from having a manager like Van Gaal to a manager like Mourinho and not expect the club to be a basket case.

which is precisely why people are raving mad wanting someone like Conte

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

Mourinho failed in that he lost the players in his 3rd season but beyond that he was actually successful.

LVG was a genius to finish 5th, level on point with City, playing a bunch of academy players who today are not even playing for premier league teams. If had the squad Ole does the football would be great and he’d be winning, but Pogba or Bruno would be out.