4-Way v2: GSTQ vs Indnyc

[harms]

----------------------------------------------------- GSTQ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Indnyc


GSTQ

Formation - 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 hybrid

Tactics - Balanced football with an emphasis on controlling the game. We will try to play both positive football and be sharp on the counters while not being overly aggressive or defensive at any point.

Team structure -

1. Its a classic front 6 which comprises, 1 out and out striker, 1 orthodox winger, 1 wing forward, 1 advanced midfielder switching between the No.8 and No.10 roles, 1 B2B midfielder with plenty of freedom to both attack and defend and 1 pure destroyer to keep things tidy at the back.
2. The attack has everything you would want out of the formation -
   1. Multiple primary scorers (Charles, Hamrin)
   2. Multiple secondary scorers (Gento, Laudrup, Robson)
   3. Multiple world class creators (Laudrup, Gento, Robson)
3. The defense is absolutely magnificent with so much balance and complimentary pairings while amazingly not boasting of any GOAT's. Mcgrath and Ruggeri are the ball playing CB and rugged stopper respectively. Zanetti and Irwin are as balanced a fullback pair as they come. Monti and Robson add tremendous steel in front of the back 4.
4. Peter Schmeichel wraps up the defense to make it very difficult to penetrate.

Handling the Opposition attack -

1. Mcgrath is the perfect fit to counter Romario. Has both the physicality and pace to brush him off and the reading ability to sense Romario's movements. Mcgrath was one of the few ball playing defenders who excelled in the air as well which should come handy here.
2. Ruggeri, the gold standard when it comes to physicality and presence in the air would match Pele's physicality and deal well with the crosses pinged in from wide. Ruggeri owing to his wider roles was also among the pacier stoppers which should help him deal with Pele's sprints.
3. Luis Monti has great experience dealing with great strikers dropping deep or false 9's. He would be entrusted with the job of marking Pele when he drops deep. He also has Robson who had tremendous energy and work rate to help him out off the ball in midfield.
4. Giggs and most other great wingers of the generation called Zanetti their toughest opponent so not much more needs to be said there. Irwin was as reliable defending at the back as he was going forward and should handle Beckham quite well.
5. All in all, I think my defense and midfield is well organized and deals with the opposition strengths very well while showcasing no weaknesses.

Weaknesses in the opposition ranks -

1. While the opposition front 2 looks spectacular and the wing pair of Beckham and Giggs looks like good business, its the back 6 that carries a lot of weaknesses considering what they are facing.
2. To start off, Gary Neville is set to have a torrid time here. Lack of pace was his big weakness and Gento, probably the fastest left winger of all time will roast him time and again.
3. Beckham will be of little help to Neville because of 2 reasons
   1. In a foot race, the solution is not as simple as double marking the player like you would do with a trickster. The full back needs to be able to keep up with the pacy winger or its game over on that flank.
   2. Beckham would also need to track Irwin's surges forward which would give him little time to help Neville against Gento
4. Laudrup also operating in his preferred left side would also add to Neville's woes. I wouldn't be surprised if a large percentage of our attacks come from that side with Gento/Laudrup/Irwin ganging up on Neville
5. I also don't think Clodoaldo is good enough defensively to deal with Laudrup who was not just a Goat number 10, but a super tricky one at that with loads of dribbling and skill moves to offer.
6. And then there is Robson who was a force to contain going forward as well. Laudrup and Robson operating in their preferred zones should really overload Clodoaldo leaving the two with so much free space to run riot.
7. Coluna was also much better going forward than he was defensively. While he did put a shift in, his work rate was nothing compared to Robson's and certainly not good enough to help contain Laudrup.
8. Beckham and Giggs will have their hands full out wide considering both the flanks sport an attacking winger and an attacking fullback, leaving them little to offer in the central areas.
9. In general, I find the Neville-Tresor-Chiellini-Clodoaldo-Coluna core to be there for the taking and while Maldini is a great name to have in defense, he will be of little help to others considering he will have a Goat right flank in Hamrin and Zanetti to deal with which is not the easiest of jobs even for the greatest of defenders.

Indnyc

Tactics - Fergie inspired 4-4-2 to allow Pele to flourish.

Also this post from Invictus was the inspiration

Wrt. Pelé and his optimal position/role/habitat, I often envision him in this United-themed configuration under Fergie...


Has just about everything he needs to excel — a striker who is comfortable with other offensive juggernauts and can expand the field vertically to pose an everpresent goal-scoring threat but also provide the industry to lessen the defensive load on Pelé by a wee bit, a deadly left winger who is different from someone like Zagallo but still boasts above-average defensive acumen...and stretches the outside left channel with his searing pace so that Pelé can dominate the inside left/central, a right outside midfielder who is stylistically/functionally cut from a different cloth than Garrincha or Jairzinho but has GOAT tier crossing for Pelé to thrive off, a central primary playmaker who can dictate the game without wasting a lot of time or being too ball dominant for the team's good (which sets him apart from a lot of other more elaborate/slower central midfield architects as you could maintain an up-tempo style and incorporate playmaking forwards), and an intelligent holder who can circulate the ball while effectively screening the defense. The rest doesn't really matter, to be honest — apart from maybe Irwin, who can drift on his stronger foot and have easy access to Pelé on the inside left channel with medium range passes through the midfield zone. All the ingredients and freedoms/balances are in place for Pelé to flourish at close to peak level, especially if Fergie employs a gung-ho approach.

In general, we don't have to be very dogmatic with Pelé because he obviously had so many forms where he produced transcendental performances — for example, you don't strictly need a workmanlike left winger or an outside left with more experienced/profound versions of Pelé as he was more intelligent and creative and tactically aware by then, and could just as well thrive with a left forward who excelled at providing darting goalward runs from the left flank (as long as he is not a high maintenance type and can hold his own from a defensive/positional standpoint). Quite like not-so-secret Scouser @Šjor Bepo's lineup, too — as Pelé was one of the rare few who could shine in a myriad offensive roles in countless configurations — as long as he is a key presence, has frequent access to the ball, and we don't go overboard by burdening him with gratuitous defensive or orthodox positional tasks that would just serve to blunt his edge.

 

[harms]

Good luck, @GodShaveTheQueen @Indnyc

 

[harms]

Brilliant sides! The pace of Gento is always a threat if he's not facing a Cafu/Zanetti-like superhuman opposition, but then Gary is elevated by Becks in front of him. Not sure about an arrow on Trésor, he was always a defender-first and I've never been impressed with his ball-playing skills. I also thought that losing a star pick on a defensive left back would be a waste (am I really criticising someone for picking Maldini? fecking hell), but he's really needed in this match-up against Hamrin-Zanetti duo.

Scrappy's team is fantastic, it's so balanced and yet it doesn't really lack in quality like you'd expect from a side that picked their first star player what, in a round number 9/10? And yet even his side can easily lose this because of the sheer quality (and chemistry) in Indnyc's attack — I mean, a front two of Pelé and Romario with that midfield!

I can't make a decision at the moment.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

The pace of Gento is always a threat if he's not facing a Cafu/Zanetti-like superhuman opposition, but then Gary is elevated by Becks in front of him.

I tried to address this in the OP

1. To start off, Gary Neville is set to have a torrid time here. Lack of pace was his big weakness and Gento, probably the fastest left winger of all time will roast him time and again.
2. Beckham will be of little help to Neville because of 2 reasons
   1. In a foot race, the solution is not as simple as double marking the player like you would do with a trickster. The full back needs to be able to keep up with the pacy winger or its game over on that flank.
   2. Beckham would also need to track Irwin's surges forward which would give him little time to help Neville against Gento

 

[harms]

I tried to address this in the OP

Generally their understanding will help Gary out with his starting position. 1 on 1 Gento still has an advantage — be it because of his pace of because of his dribbling.

 

[2mufc0]

Gary was pretty solid defensively, that along with his crossing were his strengths.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Gary was pretty solid defensively, that along with his crossing were his strengths.

Lack of pace was indeed his weakness though. A fullback needs different skills to defend against a trickster like Best, or a wing forward like Stoichkov or a pacy dribbler like Gento. Same doesn't work with all types obviously.

There are certain sets of players where I wouldn't mind Neville. But against the likes of Gento, I can see him struggle no ends.

Even at his prime young age, he wasn't quick enough.

 

[Physiocrat]

Is it me or is Romario a bit out of place here with two cross heavy wingers? Wouldn't he be better suited to more central play where he can released with through balls?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Is it me or is Romario a bit out of place here with two cross heavy wingers? Wouldn't he be better suited to more central play where he can released with through balls?

It struck to me as well. Having Pele there does help with not all crosses going to vain, but heading was hardly Romario's forte and he won't be winning any aerial duels against Ruggeri and Mcgrath no less.

I wouldn't go to the extent of saying he is completely out of place, but I think someone like Batigol would have been a much better fit here than Romario.

While Pele-Romario is super tasty, Giggs and Beckham's service wouldn't fully be utilized and Pele would have to be in the box more often than not like a second striker rather than someone who would want to impact from deeper areas often like he would want to.

 

[2mufc0]

Is it me or is Romario a bit out of place here with two cross heavy wingers? Wouldn't he be better suited to more central play where he can released with through balls?

Is it much different to Yorke and Cole though?

 

[2mufc0]

Lack of pace was indeed his weakness though. A fullback needs different skills to defend against a trickster like Best, or a wing forward like Stoichkov or a pacy dribbler like Gento. Same doesn't work with all types obviously.

There are certain sets of players where I wouldn't mind Neville. But against the likes of Gento, I can see him struggle no ends.

Even at his prime young age, he wasn't quick enough.

I guess it depends on the tactics and how high of a line the team plays. It wasn't often Gary got caught out badly.

 

[Physiocrat]

Is it much different to Yorke and Cole though?

From memory Cole was better in the air than Romario but he was hardly Christian Vieri

 

[2mufc0]

From memory Cole was better in the air than Romario but he was hardly Christian Vieri

Agree but then Pele is better in the air than both Cole and Yorke. I don't see it as an issue really, unless @Indnyc main tactic is a Moyes and to pump a millions crosses into the box.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Is it much different to Yorke and Cole though?

Of course it is. Both Cole and Yorke were terrific headers of the ball and neither played some of their best football with someone like Laudrup behind.

I guess it depends on the tactics and how high of a line the team plays. It wasn't often Gary got caught out badly.

I do remember instances of Overmars roasting him on the left with his pace. And if one wants Gary to sit back and defend, then that makes the attack pale. The likes of Beckham and Giggs did much better with an overlapper. Especially Beckham, who'd other wise be a bit predictable. So for the partnership to flourish, it has to be two ways. Becks has to help Gary at the back and Gary has to surge forward on overlaps. If you remove the latter to contain Gento if possible, that harms the attack as well.

The left back position has Maldini already who wasn't the most attacking in the first place. If the back 4 is sitting behind in safety, that then is not an Alex Ferguson inspired team. It hardly gets the best of the wing play, something which United were so famous for.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Agree but then Pele is better in the air than both Cole and Yorke. I don't see it as an issue really, unless @Indnyc main tactic is a Moyes and to pump a millions crosses into the box.

Come on mate, the top most target man would be the one who would be the target for most of the crosses. Pele would of course try to be in the mix, but its Romario who would be the constant presence.

Of course, if its a front 2 where Pele always stays up top, that then leaves the midfield there for the taking.

 

[2mufc0]

Of course it is. Both Cole and Yorke were terrific headers of the ball and neither played some of their best football with someone like Laudrup behind.



I do remember instances of Overmars roasting him on the left with his pace. And if one wants Gary to sit back and defend, then that makes the attack pale. The likes of Beckham and Giggs did much better with an overlapper. Especially Beckham, who'd other wise be a bit predictable. So for the partnership to flourish, it has to be two ways. Becks has to help Gary at the back and Gary has to surge forward on overlaps. If you remove the latter to contain Gento if possible, that harms the attack as well.

The left back position has Maldini already who wasn't the most attacking in the first place. If the back 4 is sitting behind in safety, that then is not an Alex Ferguson inspired team. It hardly gets the best of the wing play, something which United were so famous for.

Some good points, I like your team too and at the moment see it as a draw.

Sometimes I feel we don't give our players the respect they deserve and the 442 is often seen as a liability in draft games.

 

[2mufc0]

Come on mate, the top most target man would be the one who would be the target for most of the crosses. Pele would of course try to be in the mix, but its Romario who would be the constant presence.

Of course, if its a front 2 where Pele always stays up top, that then leaves the midfield there for the taking.

Yes Romario would be the primary player in the box, but when you have Pele rushing into the box with the momentum behind him he would be a handful in the air.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Some good points, I like your team too and at the moment see it as a draw.

Sometimes I feel we don't give our players the respect they deserve and the 442 is often seen as a liability in draft games.

Partly agree.

But I do think the general Caf consensus is Neville wasn't that gifted a player who would struggle against the great wingers of all times.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Yes Romario would be the primary player in the box, but when you have Pele rushing into the box with the momentum behind him he would be a handful in the air.

Sure, it was the first thing I mentioned as well

It struck to me as well. Having Pele there does help with not all crosses going to vain, but heading was hardly Romario's forte and he won't be winning any aerial duels against Ruggeri and Mcgrath no less.

 

[DVG7]

I find this a really difficult game to call. It's hard to ingore the quality of Indy's team and his star picks, but the midfield of GSTQ is beautiful. Probably going to abstain here but will follow the discussions.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I find this a really difficult game to call. It's hard to ingore the quality of Indy's team and his star picks, but the midfield of GSTQ is beautiful. Probably going to abstain here but will follow the discussions.

Cheers mate.

It indeed is a bad first round draw for both teams.

 

[Moby]

With Beckham and Giggs providing the service you don't really need a tremendous header of the ball as both had enough variation in their crossing. A lot of Becks' crosses would be on the ground or land at the feet for a volley and so on.

Anyway, for me the instruction to put McGrath on Romario is going to backfire here, because it results in Ruggeri being the one to contain Pele which is a grand mismatch in my book. I understand that Ruggeri is out of his depth here against both the forwards and a stylistic mismatch, but Pele is the more important element in that duo and McGrath was far better in terms of stepping out of his area and reading the play against a tricky and clever forward, which is what you need vs. Pele who would roam all around the area. With McGrath marking Romario, Ruggeri will get his ass handed on his plate for most of the game. He only has a hope of contributing in the air, which is anyway a monumental challenge given Beckham's crosses are so pin-point, but other than that, I can't see him being able to put any brakes on Pele who would be set to have a match winning performance here.

It's a bit like picking your poison but your best defender - and in this case the far better fit stylistically - has to be on Pele.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

With Beckham and Giggs providing the service you don't really need a tremendous header of the ball as both had enough variation in their crossing. A lot of Becks' crosses would be on the ground or land at the feet for a volley and so on.

Anyway, for me the instruction to put McGrath on Romario is going to backfire here, because it results in Ruggeri being the one to contain Pele which is a grand mismatch in my book. I understand that Ruggeri is out of his depth here against both the forwards and a stylistic mismatch, but Pele is the more important element in that duo and McGrath was far better in terms of stepping out of his area and reading the play against a tricky and clever forward, which is what you need vs. Pele who would roam all around the area. With McGrath marking Romario, Ruggeri will get his ass handed on his plate for most of the game. He only has a hope of contributing in the air, which is anyway a monumental challenge given Beckham's crosses are so pin-point, but other than that, I can't see him being able to put any brakes on Pele who would be set to have a match winning performance here.

It's a bit like picking your poison but your best defender - and in this case the far better fit stylistically - has to be on Pele.

I think you are really underrating Ruggeri here but you are definitely entitled to your opinion. Also don't see Monti being anywhere in the discussion. He'd have as much responsibility in containing Pele along with Ruggeri. And then there is Robson who has supported midfields to tremendous effects against the likes of Maradona/Platini/Laudrup. Making it a 1 vs 1 battle is really odd. That is not how modern football works.

Don't see any views on my attack and the opposition defense/midfield, so I guess my team's best outcome can be a 0-0 draw

 

[Moby]

I think you are really underrating Ruggeri here but you are definitely entitled to your opinion. Also don't see Monti being anywhere in the discussion. He'd have as much responsibility in containing Pele along with Ruggeri. And then there is Robson who has supported midfields to tremendous effects against the likes of Maradona/Platini/Laudrup. Making it a 1 vs 1 battle is really odd. That is not how modern football works.

Don't see any views on my attack and the opposition defense/midfield, so I guess my team's best outcome can be a 0-0 draw

Yes I am aware of there being 22 players on the pitch, my comments were specific to the CB roles and responsibilities assigned to them, which for me is a wrong instruction for the reasons mentioned above and makes it easier for the opposition to get on the scoresheet.

To be honest I'd be wary of getting Monti and Robbo all involved in this battle - they would definitely have to be of course and as mentioned in the OP Monti is expected to put in a shift vs. Pele, but with Laudrup's lack of defending, and neither Gento nor Hamrin particularly noted for constantly tracking back (correct me if I am wrong on this), with the opposition fielding a four-man midfield, it wouldn't really give Monti or especially Robbo a whole lot of time to attend Pele when he's dropping between the lines and linking up play. It's where you could have used McGrath stepping out and closing down his options, as I don't see Ruggeri having that quality in his game, especially not to the level of MvGrath's, and if he drops deep against Pele allowing him space to dictate the game, it is going to be what breaks the deadlock in this game for me.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Yes I am aware of there being 22 players on the pitch, my comments were specific to the CB roles and responsibilities assigned to them, which for me is a wrong instruction for the reasons mentioned above and makes it easier for the opposition to get on the scoresheet.

To be honest I'd be wary of getting Monti and Robbo all involved in this battle - they would definitely have to be of course and as mentioned in the OP Monti is expected to put in a shift vs. Pele, but with Laudrup's lack of defending, and neither Gento nor Hamrin particularly noted for constantly tracking back (correct me if I am wrong on this), with the opposition fielding a four-man midfield, it wouldn't really give Monti or especially Robbo a whole lot of time to attend Pele when he's dropping between the lines and linking up play. It's where you could have used McGrath stepping out and closing down his options, as I don't see Ruggeri having that quality in his game, especially not to the level of MvGrath's, and if he drops deep against Pele allowing him space to dictate the game, it is going to be what breaks the deadlock in this game for me.

Obviously 4 players won't be jumping on Pele at once. The primary markers based on higher and deeper zones are Ruggeri and Monti.

Maldini won't push up a lot and Neville is not expected to as well if he doesn't want to get roasted by Gento on the counters, so Zanetti and Irwin are more than well equipped to deal with the wide Midfielders.

Coluna runs into Robson leaving Clodoaldo to be pressed by John Charles who played as a defender as well.

I don't see double marking Pele leading to gaps anywhere.

Anyways, I completely disagree with you on Ruggeri quality wise, so we'll not be on the same page of the debate even after hours.

Thanks for putting your thoughts. Cheers.

 

[Moby]

Obviously 4 players won't be jumping on Pele at once. The primary markers based on higher and deeper zones are Ruggeri and Monti.

Maldini won't push up a lot and Neville is not expected to as well if he doesn't want to get roasted by Gento on the counters, so Zanetti and Irwin are more than well equipped to deal with the wide Midfielders.

Coluna runs into Robson leaving Clodoaldo to be pressed by John Charles who played as a defender as well.

I don't see double marking Pele leading to gaps anywhere.

Anyways, I completely disagree with you on Ruggeri, so we'll not be on the same page of the debate even after hours.

Thanks for putting your thoughts. Cheers.

Only thing in there I can add on is Maldini not pushing up a lot. You should give his documentary a watch where he goes in length about explaining how he loved attacking down the flank and was always attack minded in possession, and it is followed with several clips of him being on the other end of the pitch, a lot of times in good goalscoring positions. He played in diamond formations, x-mas tree formations and narrow formations all his life. Even played as a wingback for Italy at times, so there's no doubt that someone with his stamina, engine and pace would shy from adding to the numbers when they have the ball.

You can break the midfield battle whichever way you want but the overall point is that there are enough numbers in the opposition to occupy your two CMs. Having 3 attackers who won't be a big presence in the defensive phase is a bit of a handicap here. If you had a #10 who was better defensively, that could have freed up Monti to concentrate more on closing down the spaces which Pele is likely to exploit. As of now, it will be difficult for that midfield provide the amount of support that is required.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Only thing in there I can add on is Maldini not pushing up a lot. You should give his documentary a watch where he goes in length about explaining how he loved attacking down the flank and was always attack minded in possession, and it is followed with several clips of him being on the other end of the pitch, a lot of times in good goalscoring positions. He played in diamond formations, x-mas tree formations and narrow formations all his life. Even played as a wingback for Italy at times, so there's no doubt that someone with his stamina, engine and pace would shy from adding to the numbers when they have the ball.

You can break the midfield battle whichever way you want but the overall point is that there are enough numbers in the opposition to occupy your two CMs. Having 3 attackers who won't be a big presence in the defensive phase is a bit of a handicap here. If you had a #10 who was better defensively, that could have freed up Monti to concentrate more on closing down the spaces which Pele is likely to exploit. As of now, it will be difficult for that midfield provide the amount of support that is required.

It's a completely one sided view I am afraid as I mentioned before.

Are Gento+Irwin+Laudrup on the left not likely to roast Neville?

Is Clodoaldo good enough to hold Laudrup and Robson in full flow? Surely Pele won't put in a shift and Coluna was just about okay off the ball. Hardly a patch on Robson

If anything, the midfield battle off the ball is bleaker on the other team.

I'd even argue McGrath was better than Tresor and Ruggeri than Chiellini. Irwin surely better than Neville and Zanetti at par with Maldini or slightly below Maldini defending wise and ahead of him attacking wise.

There are attackers other than Pele and Romario on the pitch as well, you know? Less shiny, but they are there.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Probably one of my favourite matches in recent memory. Well built teams, not just star players thrown in there, but with flavour and solid dynamics. Stunning team from GSTQ and well matched against this opponent.

I'm curious about Coluna here. Most take his as a CM, but I believe he was more like Pogba, a very attacking CM. Similar to Pogba, I have reservation in playing him in a 2 man midfield. I see him stylistically very different from Gerson (Since Clodoaldo is playing here) . Would prefer Coluna in a 3 man midfield to get best of him.

 

[Jim Beam]

Clodoaldo, need more info. If Clodoaldo is capable of providing solid defensive cover that would be key here.

@Indnyc

 

[Moby]

It's a completely one sided view I am afraid as I mentioned before.

Are Gento+Irwin+Laudrup on the left not likely to roast Neville?

Is Clodoaldo good enough to hold Laudrup and Robson in full flow? Surely Pele won't put in a shift and Coluna was just about okay off the ball. Hardly a patch on Robson

If anything, the midfield battle off the ball is bleaker on the other team.

I'd even argue McGrath was better than Tresor and Ruggeri than Chiellini. Irwin surely better than Neville and Zanetti at par with Maldini or slightly below Maldini defending wise and ahead of him attacking wise.

There are attackers other than Pele and Romario on the pitch as well, you know? Less shiny, but they are there.

Err, I've obviously factored that in, like I mentioned above. I'm not going to repeat what has already been mentioned, my post was the reasoning for the delta between the two teams, not an entire list of all possible scoring scenarios for both teams. Like I mentioned earlier, I discussed what for me gives the winning edge specifically.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Err, I've obviously factored that in, like I mentioned above. I'm not going to repeat what has already been mentioned, my post was the reasoning for the delta between the two teams, not an entire list of all possible scoring scenarios for both teams. Like I mentioned earlier, I discussed what for me gives the winning edge specifically.

Fair enough.

 

[Indnyc]

Sorry guys.. Unexpectedly busy day at work.. Will respond to questions in a bit

 

[Šjor Bepo]

laudrup in a midfield three, nice try scrappy

 

[Indnyc]

Probably one of my favourite matches in recent memory. Well built teams, not just star players thrown in there, but with flavour and solid dynamics. Stunning team from GSTQ and well matched against this opponent.

I'm curious about Coluna here. Most take his as a CM, but I believe he was more like Pogba, a very attacking CM. Similar to Pogba, I have reservation in playing him in a 2 man midfield. I see him stylistically very different from Gerson (Since Clodoaldo is playing here) . Would prefer Coluna in a 3 man midfield to get best of him.

A bit on Coluna.. He obviously started as an inside forward but was his most influential as a deeper midfielder.. A video highlighting his positioning against real madrid.. He is perfectly suited to being played in a 2 man midfield especially with a defensive midfielder in Clodoaldo


A quote from his obituary in the telegraph

Initially he was employed at centre-forward, then as an attacking inside-left alongside spearhead Jose Aguas. But soon he dropped deep into midfield where he influenced every aspect of the game so successfully that he was described as "The Portuguese Didi", after the famous Brazilian play-maker.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

laudrup in a midfield three, nice try scrappy

It's a hybrid between a 433 and 4231. Not sure what I am missing or not understanding.

He obviously started as an inside forward but was his most influential as a deeper midfielder..

While he did impact off the ball, even his deeper role was more to do with his playmaking. Even your quote calls him the 'Portugese Didi'. Off the ball, he was just about okay. Like Edgar says, his best modern role would be the Pogba role.

 

[Indnyc]

Clodoaldo, need more info. If Clodoaldo is capable of providing solid defensive cover that would be key here.

@Indnyc

Clodoaldo is a really good foil for an attacking midfielder like Coluna.. He was of course the main defensive midfielder in the Brazil 1970 world cup winning team.. His game was to shield the back 4.. Of course i am biased but i feel he's perfectly suited for this role

In terms of great number 10's he came against Mazzola and (briefly) Rivera in the 1970 WC final and didn't allow them a sniff. Also Charlton (though probably past his peak) didn't get much joy in the same world cup. He was very comfortable on the ball as you can see from this dribble against Italy

 

[Indnyc]

It's a hybrid between a 433 and 4231. Not sure what I am missing or not understanding.



While he did impact off the ball, even his deeper role was more to do with his playmaking. Even your quote calls him the 'Portugese Didi'. Off the ball, he was just about okay. Like Edgar says, his best modern role would be the Pogba role.

To be honest, I don't really know what is Pogba's best role.. Didi famously played in a 4-2-4 formation and did well so i don't see why Coluna can't do the same thing.. Especially with hard working wingers like Giggs and Beckham who would have no trouble supporting the center during turnovers

 

[Indnyc]

From memory Cole was better in the air than Romario but he was hardly Christian Vieri

People tend to forget how good Beckham was. I was actually watching a video of his assists and a majority of them were on the ground rather than headers..

For example.. Here is his pass to Ronaldo.. Don't think any defender could really do much with the quality of the ball this good

 

[Šjor Bepo]

It's a hybrid between a 433 and 4231. Not sure what I am missing or not understanding.

its just that he is one of the purest n10s in history and its not like he would work hard like Platini for example so you could try and sell something new.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

To be honest, I don't really know what is Pogba's best role.

It's the most advanced player in a 3 man midfield. The same role Didi is used in these days in draft games.

Didi famously played in a 4-2-4 formation and did well so i don't see why Coluna can't do the same thing..

He can of course in 1958

Especially with hard working wingers like Giggs and Beckham who would have no trouble supporting the center during turnovers

I have put my analysis on the support from wide men in the OP

Beckham and Giggs will have their hands full out wide considering both the flanks sport an attacking winger and an attacking fullback, leaving them little to offer in the central areas.

While they might still pop in from time to time, I don't expect it to be significant enough. And if it is significant, the fullbacks will get in trouble in 2 vs 1 situations, especially Neville.