4 years without a trophy

Grylte

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I'm supporting Manchester United, it's my club, has been for 40 years, and will be for the rest of my life, no matter results.
I am not a supporter of winning. I feel amazing when we do, but that is not what i support, i support my club.

Some will understand what i mean.
 

LoneStar

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Oops - he's just been given a new contract!
I doubt it buys him the whole contract duration though. Its not like we have sacked managers with contracts before. But this gives stability to the manager, and the potential transfer targets, so good decision overall I guess.
 

El Zoido

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The whole “no excuses & must be sacked if he doesn’t win x trophy this year” is pathetically naive. Expect nothing less from the modern fan though.
 

el3mel

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The whole “no excuses & must be sacked if he doesn’t win x trophy this year” is pathetically naive. Expect nothing less from the modern fan though.
Yeah. We absolutely shouldn't expect a trophy from a manager in his 3rd year especially after signing an 80m winger. Very naive.
 
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I'm supporting Manchester United, it's my club, has been for 40 years, and will be for the rest of my life, no matter results.
I am not a supporter of winning. I feel amazing when we do, but that is not what i support, i support my club.

Some will understand what i mean.
Very true. And my experience, living in Manchester, is that United fans I chat to feel this way too.
 

alexthelion

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I'm supporting Manchester United, it's my club, has been for 40 years, and will be for the rest of my life, no matter results.
I am not a supporter of winning. I feel amazing when we do, but that is not what i support, i support my club.

Some will understand what i mean.
It's a good job some of these "supporters" weren't around in the 70s and 80s, I'd be really concerned about their mental health.

Time some posters realise that just because we're Manchester United it doesn't give us a God-given right to win things.
 

Halftrack

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Yeah. We absolutely shouldn't expect a trophy from a manager in his 3rd year especially after signing an 80m winger. Very naive.
It's almost as if there are other teams that play football, and we can play a blinder of a season and still come away with nothing.
 

Grylte

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Time some posters realise that just because we're Manchester United it doesn't give us a God-given right to win things.
Exactly!

The reason i'm behind Ole, isn't because i'm Norwegian, or because i believe he is the best manager in football, it's because he is trying to change the club back to what it was, and what i want it to be.
Young, hungry and likeable players who wants to play for the club. Mixing experience with young talents.

I'm sure the results will improve, but you can't change a club overnight and buy 12 new players every summer, and ship out 12 because they're not top 3 in their position.

I genuinely think that most supporters would have a better life if they didn't read forums ;)
 

el3mel

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It's almost as if there are other teams that play football, and we can play a blinder of a season and still come away with nothing.
Are City telling themselves this as well ? "Oh there're United and Chelsea in the league, there're definitely excuses for us winning feck all next season".
 

Halftrack

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Are City telling themselves this as well ? "Oh there're United and Chelsea in the league, there're definitely excuses for us winning feck all next season".
I honestly don't give a shit, I'm just pointing out that it's perfectly possible for Ole to come away from this season with no trophies and still deserve to continue in the job.
 
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I'm supporting Manchester United, it's my club, has been for 40 years, and will be for the rest of my life, no matter results.
I am not a supporter of winning. I feel amazing when we do, but that is not what i support, i support my club.

Some will understand what i mean.
I do.

We had some good players (not great)… Buchan (my first hero), Pearson, McQueen, Sammy, Lou, etc but while they lacked top top class ability, they worked hard and the losses just made the wins (77) all the better. I never judged them by trophies and wont start now
 

el3mel

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I honestly don't give a shit, I'm just pointing out that it's perfectly possible for Ole to come away from this season with no trophies and still deserve to continue in the job.
This will only be excusable if we put on a strong title challenge in the league till the very last few rounds.

Otherwise no he won't deserve to continue beyond this season if it ends with no title challenge and no trophies.

A repeat of previous season will be massively disappointing.
 

lsd

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I'm supporting Manchester United, it's my club, has been for 40 years, and will be for the rest of my life, no matter results.
I am not a supporter of winning. I feel amazing when we do, but that is not what i support, i support my club.

Some will understand what i mean.

I wonder how United fans would cope if they supported clubs like Preston or other lower division clubs where you would never see your team win or see top superstars playing for your team.

A true United whould know how lucky they are to have United as their team in their heart
 

Paxi

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This will only be excusable if we put on a strong title challenge in the league till the very last few rounds.

Otherwise no he won't deserve to continue beyond this season if it ends with no title challenge and no trophies.

A repeat of previous season will be massively disappointing.
This it true. The manner in which we finish the season obviously counts. If we looked strong throughout the next season and got beat in tough finals and come away with nothing — I’d still back Ole.
 

Tom Cato

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I'm supporting Manchester United, it's my club, has been for 40 years, and will be for the rest of my life, no matter results.
I am not a supporter of winning. I feel amazing when we do, but that is not what i support, i support my club.

Some will understand what i mean.
Through thick and thin is an expression I wish more of our very demanding fanbase would comprehend at some point.
 

AjaxCunian

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Ole should stay forever, give him a lifetime contract. Through thick and thin, no matter how thin or for how long. He wants United to be back to where they used to be and that is all that matters.
 

Grylte

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I wonder how United fans would cope if they supported clubs like Preston or other lower division clubs where you would never see your team win or see top superstars playing for your team.

A true United whould know how lucky they are to have United as their team in their heart
And many would have been Preston fans if they were one of the top teams when they started watching football. Not saying all are glory hunters, but it's just how it is, people like the winning teams.

A friend of mine is Leicester fan, VERY few support them here in Norway. After they won the league, she's accused of supporting them because they won the league, when she talks football with people.
Her whole family have been Leicester fans for generations, they go over a couple times each year. When they played in the CL for the first time, she always got someone to take her shift, or swapped shift with someone, and she said "when am i ever going to see Leicester in the CL again?!".
Luckily she was wrong, but she's a proper fan. Very realistic to anything football related, not expecting to beat all the teams in the world after they won the league, and was sure it was a once in a lifetime experience.
It might be, but they're a very solid side now.
She's loving it, as she should, but she'll never think they'll stay a top 4 team forever. She'll never expect them to buy a Sancho or Varane.

I often wonder how life would be if i supported a different team, one that would celebrate a win against us as much as we would celebrate winning the EL or FA cup.
Think football would be more interesting with less expectations to your team.
 

JebelSherif

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Message to the "club is happy with top4" fanbase

Can YOU stop talking about this? We're creating a narrative that doesn't exist outside of debate forums and YouTube pundits (looking at you Goldbridge) "We're happy with 4th". The only argumet for top4 is Champions League and ease of recruitment, that's it.

You know who the only ones who have claim that the club is happy with top 4? The fans that pre-complain about the clubs achievement before, during and after a season or transfer window.

The only thing the players have said is that they are happy with progress, getting closer, but its all about trophies. Yet you choose to ignore that, pretend it's not a thing, and that the club for some absurd reason is happy with not winning.

That's it. No 4th place trophy, no being happy with not winning. Nothing. It is only the fans that keep rambling on about it. The players want to win, the staff wants to win. The fans want to complain about low ambition until we win, wait two weeks for the high to die down, then complain about the next thing.

So for gods sake, shut up and stop inventing problems for you to be angry about.

God damnit.
All excellent points.
 

CG1010

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What if United get 100 points this season and yet don't win the PL. The need to get a trophy lot do love to throw their weight behind Pochettino though.
 

Escobar

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Trophies are an issue, no doubt. But you start liking the team and players again. You feel we uead into the right direction. We are still some way off the top but we improve
 

JebelSherif

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Trophies are an issue, no doubt. But you start liking the team and players again. You feel we uead into the right direction. We are still some way off the top but we improve
Just curious, are you named in honour of Andres Escobar, the Columbian footballer? It was terrible what happened to him. Football is important, but not that important.
 

Steven-UK

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If we continue to rely on Martial and Rashford for goals, it'll be another 4 years... as good as this transfer window has been, we are nowhere near good enough in front of goal to fight for the title.
 

432JuanMata

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If we continue to rely on Martial and Rashford for goals, it'll be another 4 years... as good as this transfer window has been, we are nowhere near good enough in front of goal to fight for the title.
Well that has obviously been figured out now, one thing that never got mentioned as much as “we give deadwood new contracts” is the reliance on young players that slowly come into mid age without improving to the level we should expect.
Marital had a great season in 19/20 and Rashford has been improving his stats and is a great player but they are never enough to be winning titles
 

Longshanks

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This will only be excusable if we put on a strong title challenge in the league till the very last few rounds.

Otherwise no he won't deserve to continue beyond this season if it ends with no title challenge and no trophies.

A repeat of previous season will be massively disappointing.
2 minimum expectations would be a title challenge and getting to the knockout stages of the CL, after that your in the laps of the gods in knockout football somewhat, one bad draw, one bad referee decision etc.

There is a possibility that the minimum expectation changes through the season due to unforseen circumstances such as a bad injury crisis or whatever. Nothing is guaranteed in football.
 

Withnail

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Well that has obviously been figured out now, one thing that never got mentioned as much as “we give deadwood new contracts” is the reliance on young players that slowly come into mid age without improving to the level we should expect.
Marital had a great season in 19/20 and Rashford has been improving his stats and is a great player but they are never enough to be winning titles

I'd have to disagree with your assessment. Both Rashford and Martial are capable of scoring 10-20 goals a season.

Are you suggesting a team has never won a title when two of their attackers hit those kinds of numbers?
 

Red Comet

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Ole should stay forever, give him a lifetime contract. Through thick and thin, no matter how thin or for how long. He wants United to be back to where they used to be and that is all that matters.
Do you agree that Ole has improved our situation massively over the last couple of years?
 

Escobar

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Just curious, are you named in honour of Andres Escobar, the Columbian footballer? It was terrible what happened to him. Football is important, but not that important.
No not really, rather Pablo Escobar (thinking he was cool when I was a teen) :)
 

AjaxCunian

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Do you agree that Ole has improved our situation massively over the last couple of years?
I think the squad and atmosphere has improved massively, the proximity to actually win, not massively despite the other two area's improving.
 

Red Comet

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I think the squad and atmosphere has improved massively, the proximity to actually win, not massively despite the other two area's improving.
Is "proximity to win" also dependent on how strong a squad we have and relative to other teams in the EPL?
 

Crustanoid

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Well that has obviously been figured out now, one thing that never got mentioned as much as “we give deadwood new contracts” is the reliance on young players that slowly come into mid age without improving to the level we should expect.
Marital had a great season in 19/20 and Rashford has been improving his stats and is a great player but they are never enough to be winning titles
I know this sounds simplistic, but he just needs to get the ball in the back of the net. The season before last his confidence was high and he was getting chances and executing them. I think his mentality is the most important thing. We’ve seen Ole’s stance on mentality gradually over the past couple of years so it will be interesting to see what happens.
 

AjaxCunian

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Is "proximity to win" also dependent on how strong a squad we have and relative to other teams in the EPL?
100%, but reason why I wouldnt say is because of Ole's tactics / in game management. I think he does a lot of stuff better than our previous managers, but his tactics in the most important matches or his game management let's us down.

If the squad gets so good though, that factor will decrease in importance.
 

laughtersassassin

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I'm supporting Manchester United, it's my club, has been for 40 years, and will be for the rest of my life, no matter results.
I am not a supporter of winning. I feel amazing when we do, but that is not what i support, i support my club.

Some will understand what i mean.
Irrelevant to this thread. We all clearly are still supporting as well if we didn't we wouldn't be here anymore ......
 

Red Comet

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100%, but reason why I wouldnt say is because of Ole's tactics / in game management. I think he does a lot of stuff better than our previous managers, but his tactics in the most important matches or his game management let's us down.

If the squad gets so good though, that factor will decrease in importance.
I think we have common ground. I agree that Ole's in game management could be a lot better; my general sense/belief/bias is that he makes subs too little too late, though I've also seen data such as this and this that disproves my point.

On the matters of tactics though, he has gone head to head to against other managers that the CAF would wank over, and still come off with a pretty decent record, registering wins against Bald Fraud, Nagelsmann, Tuchel, Bielsa etc. What makes you hold the opinion that Ole is tactically inferior?
 

AjaxCunian

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I think we have common ground. I agree that Ole's in game management could be a lot better; my general sense/belief/bias is that he makes subs too little too late, though I've also seen data such as this and this that disproves my point.

On the matters of tactics though, he has gone head to head to against other managers that the CAF would wank over, and still come off with a pretty decent record, registering wins against Bald Fraud, Nagelsmann, Tuchel, Bielsa etc. What makes you hold the opinion that Ole is tactically inferior?
A win is a win, don't get me wrong. Beating Bielsa with Leeds isn't that special, he beat Tuchel in a knockout which was an awesome match, at the same time, Tuchel beat it when it mattered most with PSG this season.

Nagelsmann also beat him when it mattered most.

He has a decent record vs Pep I must say, but Pep beat him in the most important fixtures.

I feel like his tactics are quite negative and reactive. United rarely take the opponent at their neck in top matches, go out to dominate. Ofcourse a couple time you'll win with defensive counter football, but we come lacking a lot when it matters vs good opponents.

It doesnt happen that often under Ole that we dominate top matches, which isn't a stick to greatly beat him with because they are top matches, but I am not a fan of that approach at all.
 
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JebelSherif

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No not really, rather Pablo Escobar (thinking he was cool when I was a teen) :)
Oh yes, I saw a thing on TV about him, recently.

The footballer Escobar will never be forgotton, not least by me. It was World Cup 1994 and fantasy football had been just invented. Was a student at the time and I 'phoned in' my team (to the Sun) from a pay-phone, cost a bloody fortune. But I thought I was nailed on for the £50,000 prize so what the heck!

Oh dear! I built my team around Columbia and they didn't even make it out of the group and then one of my defenders got murdered.

I've played FF in one form or another ever since, always been rubbish (27 years without a ff trophy!) - but at least since then, none of my players have been killed...
 

JebelSherif

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If we continue to rely on Martial and Rashford for goals, it'll be another 4 years... as good as this transfer window has been, we are nowhere near good enough in front of goal to fight for the title.
You're forgetting about Cavani, I think he will be well rested and should get Utd. 20+ goals this season.

To challenge for the Premier title though I really think Utd. must have a good start because the fixtures around October time look tough. Although at least Rashford should be back then to hopefully assist Cavani towards that target and even past it.

Having read this thread and other similar ones, its not the 4 years without a trophy that is upsetting Utd. fans the most, it's the 8 years since a league title that really hurts.
 

meamth

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Exactly!

The reason i'm behind Ole, isn't because i'm Norwegian, or because i believe he is the best manager in football, it's because he is trying to change the club back to what it was, and what i want it to be.
Young, hungry and likeable players who wants to play for the club. Mixing experience with young talents.

I'm sure the results will improve, but you can't change a club overnight and buy 12 new players every summer, and ship out 12 because they're not top 3 in their position.

I genuinely think that most supporters would have a better life if they didn't read forums ;)
Love that. I feel the same way too.

Thing is I felt annoyed reading comments like "If we had a top manager, we would've won something last season." But those types of comments also failed to add the logic of "If a top manager came in, would we have the same stable/happy squad to be in those finals?"

I very much doubt that. If a new manager came in before Ole, Shaw would've been sold, we wouldn't sign Cavani, Bruno wouldn't have much freedom, etc. Those small decisions or man management what makes a season.
 

sglowrider

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I'm supporting Manchester United, it's my club, has been for 40 years, and will be for the rest of my life, no matter results.
I am not a supporter of winning. I feel amazing when we do, but that is not what i support, i support my club.

Some will understand what i mean.
100%. I have been a support a tad longer than you but that's precisely how I feel. United is more than about a faceless winning/silverware machine. I will support the club regardless of whether they win silverware or not and over the decades there have been lean periods ...and I was still there.
 

JustCoco

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simply put, Woodward and Glazers taking 2-3 years on deals.
Woodward has resigned but I assume still in charge at the moment.
Varane and Sancho is good, if they can actually speed up negotiations we wouldn't be 1/4 through a rebuild when another manager takes over so we get a better idea of the managers ability.

I feel if Van Gaal or even Moyes got a fraction of their targets we'd be doing better.

The sign 1-2 players > do nothing the next season > sack manager > Start again
cycle could be over, we won't truly know until next summer / this Jan.
 

wolvored

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simply put, Woodward and Glazers taking 2-3 years on deals.
Woodward has resigned but I assume still in charge at the moment.
Varane and Sancho is good, if they can actually speed up negotiations we wouldn't be 1/4 through a rebuild when another manager takes over so we get a better idea of the managers ability.

I feel if Van Gaal or even Moyes got a fraction of their targets we'd be doing better.

The sign 1-2 players > do nothing the next season > sack manager > Start again
cycle could be over, we won't truly know until next summer / this Jan.
We could do and imo would do better if they also dropped this 'lets give a new contract to... Ole wont pick him, but it protects our asset and an excuse not to keep buying a lot of players in one go' attitude.