5 years without a trophy - Further away than ever

flameinthesun

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I genuinely believe if the stars align we can win a trophy this season and finish top 4. Most of this squad finished 2nd, Varane and Sancho in a functioning system should be even better than last year, add to that EtH and the signings we have made. If we get De Jong I think we may surprise a lot of people, last year is more of an anomaly with this squad rather than the norm, we have/are creating a pretty interesting team. All to be seen if EtH can bring it all together.
 

AndySmith1990

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Think the best we can hope for this season is 3rd and winning the EL and/or one of the domestic cups. I'd be delighted with that
 

Azhar88

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Good to see the news about a ban on alcohol during the week for players and other stuff to do with enhancing team coherence: meals to be eaten together/no mobile phones & fines for lateness etc. (no use of private chefs and personal diet plans). I think this will really be a positive impact and make this thread redundant come the end of the season.
 

lex talionis

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Think the best we can hope for this season is 3rd and winning the EL and/or one of the domestic cups. I'd be delighted with that
I'll take that. This is not the season to pursue treble glory. What we reasonably expect is contending for third but finishing no lower than fourth and winning the EL cup. The domestic cups are of some entertainment value to watch young players go for it, but neither are trophies one dreams of coming true.
 

Irwin99

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Got a feeling we'll win the Europa League but finish outside the top 4.
 

Tyrion

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Ten Hag’s gonna get this trophy tattooed on his arm.
I dont know why they even give out trophies for preseason games. Where do they even go afterwards? I can't imagine the club keeps them.

Regarding the title, we're not further away than ever. We were further away last year. Now we have a proper manager and no Woodward.
 

Big Ben Foster

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I dont know why they even give out trophies for preseason games. Where do they even go afterwards? I can't imagine the club keeps them.
Why not? Every club museum I've ever been to was full of meaningless trophies from random competitions nobody has ever heard of.
 

Pintu

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Got a feeling we'll win the Europa League but finish outside the top 4.
That sounds better than another trophyless season, but of course you want the playing philosophy to look like we are going somewhere (Hopefully towards something like what ETH implemented in Amsterdam).
 

Polar

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Everything can happen in football, but no doubt we are further behind City than ever. This season is the first time I think none of our players would’ve been City’s first choice in the startup:( Sancho and Ronaldo would’ve been great backups for Grealish and Haaland though.
 

MDFC Manager

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Everything can happen in football, but no doubt we are further behind City than ever. This season is the first time I think none of our players would’ve been City’s first choice in the startup:( Sancho and Ronaldo would’ve been great backups for Grealish and Haaland though.
Nope, why would Pep bench Sancho in favour of Grealish?
 

Azhar88

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I have been wondering: it is pretty much understood that ever since Sir Alex retired each new manager had a non-negotiable target in their contract to gain entry into the next seasons Champions League. If I recall, Moyes was sacked on like the day that target became mathematically impossible - I assume because had it happened earlier his pay-off would have been significantly more.

Is ETH under such a demanding contractual stipulation, does anyone know? I think top-4 is achievable, possibly at the expense of Chelsea who seem to be in some turmoil right now, although perhaps entry via winning the Europa Cup would be more likely and would also knock this thread on the head too.
 

Red Royal

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I have been wondering: it is pretty much understood that ever since Sir Alex retired each new manager had a non-negotiable target in their contract to gain entry into the next seasons Champions League. If I recall, Moyes was sacked on like the day that target became mathematically impossible - I assume because had it happened earlier his pay-off would have been significantly more.

Is ETH under such a demanding contractual stipulation, does anyone know? I think top-4 is achievable, possibly at the expense of Chelsea who seem to be in some turmoil right now, although perhaps entry via winning the Europa Cup would be more likely and would also knock this thread on the head too.
Given where he has inherited the team he may not have that obligation.... or at least his lawyers would have built something favourable to him. Really think our fan base needs to be patient, there is no magic wand and even if we get our top target (FdJ) we will do well to get top4.
 

Polar

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Nope, why would Pep bench Sancho in favour of Grealish?
Sancho has his strengths compared to Grealish (better end product?) but Grealish is a more complete and mature player right now. He plays with more intensity and aggression and is a better two-way player than Sancho (for the moment). That’s what Pep favour a lot.

When that’s said… I’m a great fan of Sancho. The sky is the limit. He can probably develop to become top 5 offensive player in the world.

Maybe Sancho is even more competitive on the right wing? Unfortunately also Mahrez is a better player for the moment.
 

sunama

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I genuinely believe if the stars align we can win a trophy this season and finish top 4. Most of this squad finished 2nd, Varane and Sancho in a functioning system should be even better than last year, add to that EtH and the signings we have made. If we get De Jong I think we may surprise a lot of people, last year is more of an anomaly with this squad rather than the norm, we have/are creating a pretty interesting team. All to be seen if EtH can bring it all together.
Think the best we can hope for this season is 3rd and winning the EL and/or one of the domestic cups. I'd be delighted with that
Got a feeling we'll win the Europa League but finish outside the top 4.
Guys, firstly top 4 will be a miracle.
3rd place would require us to give ETH a lifetime contract as that is lunacy.
And the EL trophy, which is incredibly difficult to win, is something we could not win, if we repeated this season 10 times!

For the record, I don't believe we will win a trophy for at least 3 seasons (it's already been 5 seasons).
And a good achievement for an EPL rookie manager who has never managed a top club, will be 5th place. 6th place league finish is my prediction.

PS. if you are interested in claiming your lottery winnings, for a lottery that you did not enter and does not exist, and wish to pay me a lot of money, please PM me.
 

flameinthesun

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For the following people, I have a timeshare I'd like to sell you.
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Guys, firstly top 4 will be a miracle.
3rd place would require us to give ETH a lifetime contract as that is lunacy.
And the EL trophy, which is incredibly difficult to win, is something we could not win, if we repeated this season 10 times!

For the record, I don't believe we will win a trophy for at least 3 seasons (it's already been 5 seasons).
And a good achievement for an EPL rookie manager who has never managed a top club, will be 5th place. 6th place league finish is my prediction.

PS. if you are interested in claiming your lottery winnings, for a lottery that you did not enter and does not exist, and wish to pay me a lot of money, please PM me.

A miracle? Last season has definitely done a number on a lot of fans. This squad before Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane has finished top 4 multiple times. As it stands last season is the exception not the norm. Similar has happened to Chelsea before.

When you compare this united squad to Chelsea's, Tottenham's and Arsenal's squad I don't see how anyone can confidently say we definitely won't get top 4. Chelsea are having a terrible pre-season, Arsenal and Tottenham are Arsenal and Tottenham and then there is united. If anything 4th and 3rd are wide open and we are definitely in with a shout.

In regards to EtH being a rookie manager, newsflash for you, the majority of the rookie great/good managers that come to the EPL having never managed here don't really struggle and more often than not succeed. The myth of a manager/player not having EPL experience being a risk is exactly what it is, a myth. The majority of foreign managers/players that come to the EPL do no worse than those that have spent their whole career playing in the EPL. We are not asking EtH to win the league next season, but top 4 is definitely doable.
 

fergiewherearethou

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For the following people, I have a timeshare I'd like to sell you.
I'd also like to inform you that you have won the lottery in a country that does not exist and a lottery that you did not enter - but you need to send me a small payment to have the money released to you.







Guys, firstly top 4 will be a miracle.
3rd place would require us to give ETH a lifetime contract as that is lunacy.
And the EL trophy, which is incredibly difficult to win, is something we could not win, if we repeated this season 10 times!

For the record, I don't believe we will win a trophy for at least 3 seasons (it's already been 5 seasons).
And a good achievement for an EPL rookie manager who has never managed a top club, will be 5th place. 6th place league finish is my prediction.

PS. if you are interested in claiming your lottery winnings, for a lottery that you did not enter and does not exist, and wish to pay me a lot of money, please PM me.
I really believe you are very pessimistic. I know we come from a bad season and that is mostly due to the management of the team.
Top 4 wouldn't be a miracle otherwise would mean Ole managed 2 miracles in 3 years. A miracle would be to win the league.
EL is not an incredibly difficult trophy to win, that's the CL. Ole managed to achieve a final and most of the fans were left disappointed that we have lost it and not amazed that we achieved to get there.

ETH seems to be a much better manager than Ole and Rangnick.

From the 6 teams battling for top 4, one should have a bad season and we can battle the other one for a 4th spot which imo is not a miracle or something that can't happen.
 

laughtersassassin

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I really believe you are very pessimistic. I know we come from a bad season and that is mostly due to the management of the team.
Top 4 wouldn't be a miracle otherwise would mean Ole managed 2 miracles in 3 years. A miracle would be to win the league.
EL is not an incredibly difficult trophy to win, that's the CL. Ole managed to achieve a final and most of the fans were left disappointed that we have lost it and not amazed that we achieved to get there.

ETH seems to be a much better manager than Ole and Rangnick.

From the 6 teams battling for top 4, one should have a bad season and we can battle the other one for a 4th spot which imo is not a miracle or something that can't happen.
Our team has been significantly weakened in past few seasons and our rivals have got stronger.
 

Azhar88

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Our team has been significantly weakened in past few seasons and our rivals have got stronger.
I'm afraid this is true. Apart from Leiceister who seem to have gone backwards, possibly since the sad loss of their chairman, other top-half teams are better now: West Ham for example. I expect to see some strong performances from Aston Villa too. Plus although they seem quiet in the transfer market so far, we must expect Newcastle to strengthen in the next 3 weeks and I believe they have a very good manager - he performed amazingly well in the second half of last season. Tottenham/Arsenal will be up there and although Chelsea seem to be having some issues, Raheem Sterling will probably get 20+ goals and they have put to bed the Russian oligarch problem. Man City/Liverpool I don't need to mention. But unless something happens soon at Utd. regarding the key areas, I fear a mid-table scrap with the likes of Wolves/Crystal Palace and Leicester.
 

fergiewherearethou

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Our team has been significantly weakened in past few seasons and our rivals have got stronger.

I wouldn't say we have significantly weakened in the past few seasons.
Let's take for example the season when Ole finished 3rd, what quality players did we have back then and we don't have now? maybe only Pogba... but the others are... Matic ? Ighalo ? Cavani ? James ?
Since then we have signed Varane, Sancho, Ronaldo, Martinez and Eriksen who would have walked in that team from 3 years ago

I would say that SOME of our rivals have gotten stronger Arsenal and Spurs yes.
Liverpool and City are at the same high level as before and much better than us.
Chelsea is maybe slightly better.


I'm afraid this is true. Apart from Leiceister who seem to have gone backwards, possibly since the sad loss of their chairman, other top-half teams are better now: West Ham for example. I expect to see some strong performances from Aston Villa too. Plus although they seem quiet in the transfer market so far, we must expect Newcastle to strengthen in the next 3 weeks and I believe they have a very good manager - he performed amazingly well in the second half of last season. Tottenham/Arsenal will be up there and although Chelsea seem to be having some issues, Raheem Sterling will probably get 20+ goals and they have put to bed the Russian oligarch problem. Man City/Liverpool I don't need to mention. But unless something happens soon at Utd. regarding the key areas, I fear a mid-table scrap with the likes of Wolves/Crystal Palace and Leicester.
So in your opinion this following season will be poorer than our worst season in recent history where we finished 6th?
 

Azhar88

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I wouldn't say we have significantly weakened in the past few seasons.
Let's take for example the season when Ole finished 3rd, what quality players did we have back then and we don't have now? maybe only Pogba... but the others are... Matic ? Ighalo ? Cavani ? James ?
Since then we have signed Varane, Sancho, Ronaldo, Martinez and Eriksen who would have walked in that team from 3 years ago

I would say that SOME of our rivals have gotten stronger Arsenal and Spurs yes.
Liverpool and City are at the same high level as before and much better than us.
Chelsea is maybe slightly better.




So in your opinion this following season will be poorer than our worst season in recent history where we finished 6th?
I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree with a lot of this. First of all, when Ole was at his most successful, he was mainly playing in empty stadiums. I thought at the time, all those games where United went behind and then clawed things back, would not normally happen with 70,000 upset fans moaning because an opposing team was ahead and I stand by that, as last season showed. As I indicate below, playing for Man Utd. brings extra pressure. Other clubs used to fear coming to Old Trafford, now even smaller teams see the chance for a shock draw or even a surprise 3 pts.

Three years ago Ronaldo was 34, there is a big difference between a 34 yr old and a 37 yr old (some retire at 35!).

SOME rivals have improved.... I think you have forgotten a) West Ham (finished just behind Utd last season with much much less resources and their manager has loads of PL experience) b) Aston Villa (2:2 vs Utd last week and a manager who knows more about the Prem League - albeit from his playing time, than our new guy does) and c) Newcastle ($$$$$s and a manager with experience in our leagues).


As I said, unless something amazing happens in the next 2-3 weeks Yes, I fear a mid-table battle in 2022/23.

The problem is, Manchester United is run more as a business and less as a football club these days and we all know that. At one of the big oil clubs, were something to happen like has with our young star striker in January, they would have just accepted he is unlikely to play again (for a very long time/maybe never) and gone all out to get a replacement. We don’t do that.

In fact I would argue we need 3, possible 4 new strikers: 1 to replace him, another for Cavani a third for Ronaldo and a 4th for Martial. Bearing in mind they are the most sought after players of all and we have to throw extra money at the problem, to offset the lack of CL football, we have to accept it isn’t likely to happen.

I suppose a season with no striker, possibly Rashford as a false-nine, could work, but for that to happen you need a stella midfield and amazing attacking defenders, who can rampage forward in the belief there is a sweeper/keeper guarding the backline….

What other people are forgetting too and I return to the fact Man Utd is a business first and foremost now, are external factors. I dread to think what the energy bill will be for Old Trafford on a match day*: it can’t be the most efficient place to heat and light as it is getting a bit old and worn-out. Because of the cost-of living crisis, there will likely be a drop-off in revenue from club merchandise and cup game tickets, as families prioitise their outgoings this coming winter.

It’s something I’m worried about – but will such gaps in income & higher energy bills bother the board at City or Newcastle? Probably not, they are operating on a different financial level.

Finally, what amazes me about United is this: they keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Yesterday I read that SAF was seen at the ground, whilst Ronaldo was reporting for crunch talks with the club. Now these two things may or may not be connected, some reports suggest Sir Alex was there for a pre-planned board meeting unrelated to playing staff issues, but if that is so, why schedule it at that exact same date and time? It just gives the newspapers and rival fan sites an opportunity to churn out the same old ‘back-seat driver’ stories. Manchester United is probably one of the most famous clubs in the world, certainly in England and the media love to run stories about us. It sells papers or prompts clicks on a website. When things are going well, those stories will be positive ones and will enhance the players self-belief and team spirit. Conversely, when things are not going so well, the media still love to report that too but this can have the opposite effect on the team, causing arguments in the dressing room and a lack of team spirit and togetherness.

The club needs to be more ruthless and what is more be seen to be more ruthless. Tell Ronaldo he can get fit in the next 2 weeks and be on the bench if needed, for Premier League week 1 or alternatively, buy out his own contract (which he could easily do) and walk away. We need to stop with all the wishy-washy mixed messages, not least because it is playing havoc with my fantasy football team selections.

*It isn’t just matchdays either – Old Trafford is partly open throughout the week and I can’t imagine the stadium tours will be popular if people get shown around a freezing trophy room, by a guy with a torch!
 
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Skills

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I'd say a domestic cup or Europa league could be in with a shot.

Under Ole we reached the FA Cup semi final a few seasons ago, and the league cup semis a few times as well. Once you're in the final it's anyone's game on any given day. Arsenal showed it in Arteta's first season
 

Lee565

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Until we correct our mentality as a club (which starts with the glazers) we will continue with more of the same from since fergie left.

We clearly have the mentality of ucl is good enough, that is coming from the board who often show a lack of ambition and support in improving the side and probably would have stupidly given the job to Rangnick if he had qualified for champions league and it also comes from our weak fans that excuse and lower the bar of standards for when managers and players are clearly not good enough to be winning anything of note, we have wasted about a combined 3 seasons of being patient with mediocrity.
 

Cloud7

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It's been so long since we were good (League/CL good, not pinch a Europa league or FA cup or come a distant second good) that I feel like I have forgotten what that feels like
 

Skills

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Until we correct our mentality as a club (which starts with the glazers) we will continue with more of the same from since fergie left.

We clearly have the mentality of ucl is good enough, that is coming from the board who often show a lack of ambition and support in improving the side and probably would have stupidly given the job to Rangnick if he had qualified for champions league and it also comes from our weak fans that excuse and lower the bar of standards for when managers and players are clearly not good enough to be winning anything of note, we have wasted about a combined 3 seasons of being patient with mediocrity.
This is right rbf. UCL qualification year on year, without winning or challenging would give a manager a job for life here.
 

Son

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Like some have stated it’s sad how far this club has fallen past 10 years. Diabolical really couldn’t have been any worse basically given our size.

Understandable why fans have lowered the bar as well. That’s just reality and common sense these days.

The Glazers are getting old for this game and the sons don’t have the fathers ambition or business sense obviously.

It’s a bad look for our brand to be associated in any way with their old dusty businesses. Facts are the people who own us now built nothing and have rode off their parents coat tails. They are weak.

The fact they cannot and will not finance a proper rebuild shows they are weak to everyone. We should be dropping £250m on players at least after last season and that stadium should be already renovated or re-built by now no excuses.
 

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Like some have stated it’s sad how far this club has fallen past 10 years. Diabolical really couldn’t have been any worse basically given our size.

Understandable why fans have lowered the bar as well. That’s just reality and common sense these days.

The Glazers are getting old for this game and the sons don’t have the fathers ambition or business sense obviously.

It’s a bad look for our brand to be associated in any way with their old dusty businesses. Facts are the people who own us now built nothing and have rode off their parents coat tails. They are weak.

The fact they cannot and will not finance a proper rebuild shows they are weak to everyone. We should be dropping £250m on players at least after last season and that stadium should be already renovated or re-built by now no excuses.
Thats BS. None of the other top teams have spent as much as us bar City. We were just paying Cristiano 500k pw. Chelsea, Real, PSG, Barcelona, Bayern, Liverpool, Athletico, have all managed to remain competitive without spending £250m each season. We are also not oil rich and you vastly overestimate our income vs outgoings. I doubt we even have £250m profit each year. How can you say they will not finannce a proper rebuild when we are the 2nd biggest spenders in the game? Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool fans must be laughing at the spoilt mindset of our chequebook fanbase. The issue has been that the owners have allowed inept people to finance the rebuild.
 

Son

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Thats BS. None of the other top teams have spent as much as us bar City. We were just paying Cristiano 500k pw. Chelsea, Real, PSG, Barcelona, Bayern, Liverpool, Athletico, have all managed to remain competitive without spending £250m each season. We are also not oil rich and you vastly overestimate our income vs outgoings. I doubt we even have £250m profit each year. How can you say they will not finannce a proper rebuild when we are the 2nd biggest spenders in the game? Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool fans must be laughing at the spoilt mindset of our chequebook fanbase. The issue has been that the owners have allowed inept people to finance the rebuild.
I’m not saying every season. I’m saying when we finish nearly mid table, lose greenwood, have Dalot / AwB at right back and players like McTomminay and Elanga in the squad.

The level is so far from where we should be starting any season. Martial still at the club too. I’d sell him after he impressed pre season. He can be someone else’s problem then.

Bring in a better striker. Bring in a right winger. All very do-able in the short term. Ten Hag needs an assortment of riches surely to compete this season and the owners should give him it.

Don’t tell me he’s gonna rely on players like Martial either that is insanity.
 

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I’m not saying every season. I’m saying when we finish nearly mid table, lose greenwood, have Dalot / AwB at right back and players like McTomminay and Elanga in the squad.

The level is so far from where we should be starting any season. Martial still at the club too. I’d sell him after he impressed pre season. He can be someone else’s problem then.

Bring in a better striker. Bring in a right winger. All very do-able in the short term. Ten Hag needs an assortment of riches surely to compete this season and the owners should give him it.

Don’t tell me he’s gonna rely on players like Martial either that is insanity.
Could be the manager. He might just want overpriced ex Ajax players who aren't worth that level of investment. There has to be balance and we must have a variety of options to go for. I think Greenwood will come back at some point (not saying he should) and looks like Ronaldo is staying