7 losses in 11 Champions League games...

Dominos

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The 5-0 win to Leipzig flattered us a lot as well. Leipzig had us by the balls and could've been a few up but then Rashford scored and they capitulated. Another day, they take their chances and we are staring down the barrel. Which is exactly what happened in the reverse match day.
Really not an accurate summary of the game. Leipzig had the possession but they were creating nothing. The idea they could have been a few goals in front is just bizarre. 5-0 did flatter us in that the game was competitive for 75 minutes and then they just collapsed.
 

MadMike

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If we cant get out of this group with these players there would no longer be any argument to be had about whether Ole is a good enough manager for this club.

There's not a single half decent manager in Europe who would bodge this group up with a squad including Ronaldo, Varane, Maguire, Shaw, De Gea, Bruno and Pogba. Not one. We're paying Ronaldo more than these club's entire wage budgets.

Ole has got it all to prove in these next 5 group games.
Getting out of this group is below bare minimum to be honest. Minimum should be making quarters, imo.

Failing to qualify with this squad of players from a group with Young Boys, Villarreal and Atalanta is akin to finishing bottom half of the EPL table. It’s unthinkable and inexcusable. A person with integrity and love for the club would not even wait for the sack, they would acknowledge they are not the right person and just offer their resignation.
 

hobbers

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Getting out of this group is below bare minimum to be honest. Minimum should be making quarters, imo.

Failing to qualify with this squad of players from a group with Young Boys, Villarreal and Atalanta is akin to finishing bottom half of the EPL table. It’s unthinkable and inexcusable. A person with integrity and love for the club would not even wait for the sack, they would acknowledge they are not the right person and just offer their resignation.
Yeah, exactly. Not getting out of this group with a squad this stacked would be the equivalent of Jose in his death throws at Chelsea when they were languishing in the bottom half in November. Inexcusable.
 

MadMike

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Fair stats would be 3 wins 4 losses.

That's bad, but okay, we go again.
You mean we should be leaving out the CL games during his half season, against PSG and Barca? Fine.

4 defeats 7 in group stage games (and a failure to qualify) where 3 out of 4 losses were against Istanbul Basaksehir, Leipzig and Young Boys is still a really really poor record.
 

meamth

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You mean we should be leaving out the CL games during his half season, against PSG and Barca? Fine.

4 defeats 7 in group stage games (and a failure to qualify) where 3 out of 4 losses were against Istanbul Basaksehir, Leipzig and Young Boys is still a really really poor record.
It is a poor record.

But it can be fixed in the next 5 games.
 

mu4c_20le

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You mean we should be leaving out the CL games during his half season, against PSG and Barca? Fine.

4 defeats 7 in group stage games (and a failure to qualify) where 3 out of 4 losses were against Istanbul Basaksehir, Leipzig and Young Boys is still a really really poor record.
I like how you typed out Istanbyul's full name to make the list seem longer
 

MadMike

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I like how you typed out Istanbyul's full name to make the list seem longer
How would the list appear longer, when I explicitly mention “3 out of 4 losses were against”… and then list the 3 teams.You’d have to either have misread or just not comprehend English well enough to see any malicious intent there.
 

MadMike

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Can't wait to see the agenda if he got through to the next stage. What's it going to be?
Maybe there isn’t an agenda and we just judge on what we see. If he performs well personally I’d be happy, both for our sake and his. And if he fails I will criticise him.

Let’s not pretend that he’s copping unfair criticism here. His record in Europe is atrocious and raises serious doubts about his coaching ability.
 

bosnian_red

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Yeah there's no getting around the fact that Ole has had a woeful CL record so far.
 

AjaxCunian

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The performances have been mostly woeful as well, some were comicably bad. We played well vs PSG when we beat them 0-1, Barcelona when we lost 0-1 was a decent game, Leipzig 5-0 was good, and Basaksehir 4-1 was good. The other matches, we probably deserved to lose based on the performance or we actually lost.

We had changes vs PSG at home last season but they clearly deserved to win, they created even more and were easily better.

It is a really poor record whichever way you try to spin it.
 

croadyman

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It is misleading. Quality of our 2018/19 team was no where near to that Barcelona. PSG and Young Boys with man down, and I remember (I may not be right) us playing great against PSG in that game at Old Trafford, even after going man down we had one or 2 big chances, Cavani missing a sitter or something like that.

As I said, Istanbul and Leipzig were most frustrating ones. If Ole doesn't improve his CL record, he should be gone and that's it.
Top 4 equals Champions League money
 

croadyman

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Extremely disappointing is an understatement. If after buying Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo, we cannot get out of a group of Young boys, Atalanta and Villarreal, Ole would deserve the sack.
Yeah he would but our soft board aren't like Chelsea's
 

iKnowNothing

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If we cant get out of this group with these players there would no longer be any argument to be had about whether Ole is a good enough manager for this club.

I’m fairly certain that with the set of players we have, it is likely that we get out of the group. Surely getting out of the group should not be the target? The bar at its lowest should be Quarterfinals.
 

Skills

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Fergie only won 2 in 26 years...

If Ole wins us 2 CL titles in the next 26 years, why does our performance in other 24 years matter? Modern fans just lack the patience to think long term.
 

croadyman

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Fergie only won 2 in 26 years...

If Ole wins us 2 CL titles in the next 26 years, why does our performance in other 24 years matter? Modern fans just lack the patience to think long term.
No modern fans aren't afraid to actually call out the manager when he fecks up rather than this top red bollocks
 

Son

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We've played PSG 4 times, 2 wins 2 losses - a fair record.

We've played RB Leipzig 2 times, 1 win 1 loss - not great, but it happens.

We've played Barca 2 times, both losses - this was when we had a shit squad, and Messi was still at Barca.

We've played Istabul 2 times, 1 win 1 loss - that loss was catastrophic.

We've played Young Boys once, and lost - an unfortunate loss due to a red card, and a brainless moment from Lingard.

It's not great, but hyperbole always makes things seem worse.
When you put it like that though there isn’t a single team we have beaten as we either draw or lose over 2 or more games so still poor.
It is a poor record.

But it can be fixed in the next 5 games.
I don’t see why it matters if we fix it or not because he’ll still be here end of the season regardless of us finishing with 15 points in the group or zero.

We haven’t improved that much to my eyes from last season. Certainly the balance of the team and our attacking as a unit isn’t great overall. We are still a soft touch.
 

wise_old_man

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If we cant get out of this group with these players there would no longer be any argument to be had about whether Ole is a good enough manager for this club.

There's not a single half decent manager in Europe who would bodge this group up with a squad including Ronaldo, Varane, Maguire, Shaw, De Gea, Bruno and Pogba. Not one. We're paying Ronaldo more than these club's entire wage budgets.

Ole has got it all to prove in these next 5 group games.
But, but...Ole got us in top 4 consistently. That's "good" enough for the owner. :wenger:
 

jesperjaap

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I think the timing of alot of things in the cl has cost us results wise, just like last night, we have been unfortunate to a degree at times with some of these moments. But before people say I am defending us being poor, its the opposite...

I think our performances as a whole in the league havent actually been much better either. The first third of last season and the last third of the season we were also generally playing very poorly in the league, we were simply rescued many a time by a bit of Fernandes magic, Cavani goal or a penalty, we got luck at the right moments.

Even this season so far, all the excitement with Ronaldos return....lest not forget Newcastle, one of the weakest sides in the legaue caused us lots of problems before the two goal cushion, leeds caused us lots of problems, SOuthampton as well. We are improving season by season....but very very slowly. Talk of a premiership with some of the incosnsitant players we have and a very average central midfield defensively....is folly in my opinion
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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This means feck all in isolation. Look I’m annoyed about last night as much as anyone but we have one job, get out the group and we can still do that if we win our other games. How about we save the anger and calls for Oles job until we actually fail to progress out the group. If we fail to do that than I’ll be front of the queue to kick down Oles door.
 

meamth

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This means feck all in isolation. Look I’m annoyed about last night as much as anyone but we have one job, get out the group and we can still do that if we win our other games. How about we save the anger and calls for Oles job until we actually fail to progress out the group. If we fail to do that than I’ll be front of the queue to kick down Oles door.
Same, tag me in the queue.
 

Siorac

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Barcelona when we lost 0-1 was a decent game
We didn't have a shot on target at Old Trafford that night. That was anything but decent, against a Barcelona side that went on to ship four at Anfield (and had conceded three and got knocked out in Rome the year before). We also managed only 33% possession despite being a goal down from the 12th minute. Basically, Barca kept us at arm's length effortlessly.
 

laughtersassassin

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If we cant get out of this group with these players there would no longer be any argument to be had about whether Ole is a good enough manager for this club.

There's not a single half decent manager in Europe who would bodge this group up with a squad including Ronaldo, Varane, Maguire, Shaw, De Gea, Bruno and Pogba. Not one. We're paying Ronaldo more than these club's entire wage budgets.

Ole has got it all to prove in these next 5 group games.
Agreed on the part in bold. Such a scenario could not be tolerated.
 

mav_9me

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Can't wait to see the agenda if he got through to the next stage. What's it going to be?
Perhaps the agenda is United's success? And so if we get through to next stage, people would be happy?

Are you suggesting that criticism of his current CL record is equal to having an agenda against Ole?
 

mav_9me

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Maybe there isn’t an agenda and we just judge on what we see. If he performs well personally I’d be happy, both for our sake and his. And if he fails I will criticise him.

Let’s not pretend that he’s copping unfair criticism here. His record in Europe is atrocious and raises serious doubts about his coaching ability.
Can't believe people are defending this and are claiming agenda. If you can't even acknowledge this criticism of his cl record is fair, then you care more about Ole than United.
 

MadMike

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Can't believe people are defending this and are claiming agenda. If you can't even acknowledge this criticism of his cl record is fair, then you care more about Ole than United.
If you build a narrative in your head about our manager, one that contradicts objective reality, then it’s easy to see everyone else as an agenda poster through your eyes I guess.

Allegedly we want him to fail to be proven right. Instead of fearing we’ll be proven right, because we’ve seen all the warning signs in his coaching limitations being laid bare. We have an elite team now but we do not seem to have an elite manager and apparently it’s our fault for bringing that up when things go tits up.
 

arnie_ni

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Why only include the last 11? I mean if you're including 4 from the 18/19 season why not include those under Mourinho at the start of that campaign as well? And why not take it even further and include those the season before as well? And so on
Because ole wasn't the manager?
 

cyberman

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Weird thread. Only last season should really count if we are being fair. That was bad enough.
it’s still a poor group and we will easily get through but doing that doesn’t really prove anything in itself.
 

mu4c_20le

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Perhaps the agenda is United's success? And so if we get through to next stage, people would be happy?

Are you suggesting that criticism of his current CL record is equal to having an agenda against Ole?
How come some people weren't happy after Newcastle?
 

mav_9me

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How come some people weren't happy after Newcastle?
I don't know. I was happy enough, not ecstatic but it was fine.

But the topic of discussion here is Ole's CL record. And how you are saying criticism of that implies one has an agenda against Ole.
 

Godfather

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We've played PSG 4 times, 2 wins 2 losses - a fair record.

We've played RB Leipzig 2 times, 1 win 1 loss - not great, but it happens.

We've played Barca 2 times, both losses - this was when we had a shit squad, and Messi was still at Barca.

We've played Istabul 2 times, 1 win 1 loss - that loss was catastrophic.

We've played Young Boys once, and lost - an unfortunate loss due to a red card, and a brainless moment from Lingard.

It's not great, but hyperbole always makes things seem worse.
Listing it and going through the games again doesn't make it any better. Leipzig was pure shit. A loss against a much weaker squad, but obviously against a better manager. Istanbul and Young Boys were embarrassing and even against Barca we could have done better.

And finally, the last PSG loss was almost only down to Ole and his persistence on keeping Fred on the field
 

MadMike

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How come some people weren't happy after Newcastle?
Because we are not blind and see a pattern of United failing to control the midfield against inferior opposition, which allows them to run straight at our defence and cause havoc.

We didn’t control it against Soton, Wolves, Newcastle or YB. Soton made us pay for it and got a point, Wolves got objectively unlucky and deserved a point, Newcastle got outgunned by our superior attack to their shite defence, YB schooled us.

We can see repeated team frailties being papered over by an individually strong team. How one cannot see that is beyond me. We are worried mf’ers, don’t you get it?