7 losses in 11 Champions League games...

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That stat doesnt look very good..

Even looking back at the games, the ones we won were great performances and fully deserved, whereas on the other hand we were truly the architects of our own destruction in the losses and fully deserved to lose them too.

I said this in another thread, but I feel for the past 3 years we have no idea which Ole will turn up to manage this team. International teams play very differently to domestic, and he hasnt quite grasped it yet. He will hopefully even out the record, but wouldnt be surprised if we lose at least one more in this group
 

mav_9me

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How is it all on Ole? Did he make AWB sent off? Did he make Lingard pull off a howler?
By the same token, our success has nothing to do with Ole either right? Actually why do we need a manager?

I actually agree with you that AWB red card has nothing to do with anything.

However the performance afterwards where we went into a shell is on Ole. I think that's the point rather than the result or Lingard's howler.

I personally look at performances rather than results. Cuz I firmly believe results catch up to performances usually.
 

jm99

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Yeah fair point. Ole has done a great job. 3 cheers for Ole

Also 4 of the top teams in the world right now happen to be in England as well. That doesn't negate the good job Ole has done because with somebody else we could be miles off the top 3.
I didn't even know ole was a billionaire, let alone spending a billion pounds of his own money to assemble this team. Because we've long been linked with Fernandes, Maguire, Ronaldo and varane all before ole even joined, so I can't imagine he's getting credit for the targets, must be he provided the money himself right?
 

Olecurls99

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I didn't even know ole was a billionaire, let alone spending a billion pounds of his own money to assemble this team. Because we've long been linked with Fernandes, Maguire, Ronaldo and varane all before ole even joined, so I can't imagine he's getting credit for the targets, must be he provided the money himself right?
Deary me.

Jose spent similar money and left us in heap.....

So did Louis.....

Ole is spending similar amounts of the clubs money and bringing us back to relevance. Enjoy the ride my friend.
 

jm99

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Deary me.

Jose spent similar money and left us in heap.....

So did Louis.....

Ole is spending similar amounts of the clubs money and bringing us back to relevance. Enjoy the ride my friend.
I'm pretty sure Jose wanted Maguire and Fernandes but just didn't get backed in his last summer, when Maguire was apparently available for about 65m rather than 90m. But largely I don't feel as if managers get huge amounts of input into the signings, they'll obviously be consulted, but I mean does anyone really think pogba seemed like a mourinho signing?

Edit: granted ole does get some credit for developing greenwood and helping Luke Shaw get back on track but largely this team was assembled through large amounts of money, spent by the upper management of the club, I don't know how much credit ole gets for the signings of wan bissaka, varane. Fernandes, Ronaldo and Sancho. They seem like signings we would have made regardless of manager
 

Pintu

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As a final point, I’d say Atalanta were favourites in at least an equal number of their last 11 games as United were (4 or 5). So even if you’re going to compare difficultly of fixture to their quality (which wasn’t the point I originally made anyway), it’s about the same.
But the outcome is not similar. 7 losses and 4 losses are not the same.

So can you clarify what point you were making if not an excuse for Ole's abysmal record in the CL.

Atalanta is not the subject. You said no club had such a difficult run of games (the 11 ones that caused Olé to lose a record 7). The truth is clubs who get out of tough groups do run into harder series.

Atalanta was an example with no more than 4 losses be it 11 games or 15 games.

Leipzig is another. They've played United, Paris, Liverpool, Atletico. And guess what they lost less than 7 out of the 11.

Paris is another example, their last run of 11 games include City, Bayern, Barcelona. And guess what, they only lost 4 of the 11 games.

Porto is another one, their last run of 11 games include City, Atletico, Chelsea and Juventus. And they've only lost 3 of these.
 
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soapythecat

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Ole’s inadequacies in the CL won’t be the down fall of him, but another poor European campaign in this tournament will not help him when he’s given the boot for a league failure this season too. He has no room left to make mistakes and needs to be almost there or winning some silverware this season. One of the best squads in world football - we need to see more from this team.
 

bondsname

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Just looking through those performances and most were awful too. Even that first PSG game we got absolutely battered and only snuck through via goalkeeper errors and a late penalty. It's not like we were unlucky in our losses, we were definitely lucky in our PSG and Leipzig wins.
To my recollection the 1-3 loss to PSG wasn’t a humiliating defeat, Fred got a red card in that one. We played very well that evening and Martial missed sitters. On an other day we could’ve won that one.
 

432JuanMata

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stats are nothing wihout perspective
Ok well we did lose to PSG/Barca for a combined 4 times though that Barca team were nothing special but our team at the time was awful so fair.
But PSG we got 2 wins against them so it’s not like they make the stat seem better as the 2 wins where a good achievement it shows that we only won 2 other games.
The other 3 against Istanbul, Leipzig and Young Boys are not extremely bad when taking as game by game but losing the 3 combined when you only have managed 11 matches looks bad.

If you take out Barca and PSG(takes out our wins aswell)
It is 5 games with 3 loses too the teams above and it looks awful
 

432JuanMata

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That made me laugh. What's the larger perspective here? Genuinely curious.
I broke it down. Since people want to take the PSG loses away you have to take the wins and they want the Barca ones away too so then its
5 matches
2 wins vs Leipzig and Istanbul
3 loses vs Leipzig, Istanbul and Young boys

I’m not Ole out or anything but no matter what way you turn it it’s awful
 

Big Ben Foster

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To my recollection the 1-3 loss to PSG wasn’t a humiliating defeat, Fred got a red card in that one. We played very well that evening and Martial missed sitters. On an other day we could’ve won that one.
You mean the game where everyone and their mother saw the red card coming from a mile away and was begging Ole to sub Fred off?
 

432JuanMata

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You mean the game where everyone and their mother saw the red card coming from a mile away and was begging Ole to sub Fred off?
Bingo. I’m always praising Ole when he gets it right and I’ll criticise when he gets it wrong. Fred should of been sent off earlier got away with it so any foul he was gone.
He actually won the ball but the ref wanted him gone so he was sent, yet this was 30 mins after and Ole should of taking him off
 

vanrooney

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Ok well we did lose to PSG/Barca for a combined 4 times though that Barca team were nothing special but our team at the time was awful so fair.
But PSG we got 2 wins against them so it’s not like they make the stat seem better as the 2 wins where a good achievement it shows that we only won 2 other games.
The other 3 against Istanbul, Leipzig and Young Boys are not extremely bad when taking as game by game but losing the 3 combined when you only have managed 11 matches looks bad.

If you take out Barca and PSG(takes out our wins aswell)
It is 5 games with 3 loses too the teams above and it looks awful
for me the perspective is that ole gave the club the right direction the first time since saf. and we all forget quite easily how bad it was with the big experienced managers like mou or van gaal. the understanding of the game that ole has is more my feeling of the game - and my understanding is wholely dominated by the greatest of all time - sir alex.
 

432JuanMata

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for me the perspective is that ole gave the club the right direction the first time since saf. and we all forget quite easily how bad it was with the big experienced managers like mou or van gaal. the understanding of the game that ole has is more my feeling of the game - and my understanding is wholely dominated by the greatest of all time - sir alex.
I’m in agreement with you. Ole has built a squad which is our best in years and has met expectations while doing that.
I just never understand some on here if they are Ole in they slam anyone that criticise him and Ole out people go way overboard.

The other night he was at fault no doubt it was plain too see which is fair assessment but then you also have others saying get rid of him which is insane. I don’t know if he has the ability to make us challenge and it’s a fair opinion but people saying he should be sacked when we are top of the league with 5 games gone in total this season are mad
 

Bastian

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I broke it down. Since people want to take the PSG loses away you have to take the wins and they want the Barca ones away too so then its
5 matches
2 wins vs Leipzig and Istanbul
3 loses vs Leipzig, Istanbul and Young boys

I’m not Ole out or anything but no matter what way you turn it it’s awful
I wouldn't put anything aside to gain a larger perspective. Losing against Barca in Ole's first season was understandable. We looked pretty terrible, but they were quite clearly a better side. We set up pretty badly against PSG in his first season, in the away leg, with Bailly at right back looking an absolute liability, and he was hooked I think early on, thankfully, but it was a pretty strange decision. We rode our luck in that game, but it was a huge result. The second time we played them away was Ole's best showing in the CL by a mile. The Leipzig match at home was pretty tight up until we got the 2nd goal, they looked the better side to begin with and we struggled with their high press. The Leipzig match away was a tactical disaster by Ole. And the PSG at home (last season) was infuriating in that Ole refused to sub off Fred. That seemed to me to be extremely naive. You can always negate any criticism with "if things work out, everyone thinks it's great, and if not, you're terrible", but you can use that line both when you make a tonne of mistakes and when you're genuinely unlucky. It's an empty phrase really.

If general CL performance was echoed in league and cup performances, Ole would quite obviously not be in a job. It's a terrible record with no mitigating factors. If people want to defend his record, they should focus on the league which is where he's made sustained progress.
 

hobbers

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stats are nothing wihout perspective
Exactly, if you just looked at the stats of the Young Boys game you would think they were a world class team, and not the European Conference-level side, whose combined wage bill wouldn't even pay for a week of Pogba, that they are.
 

Siezard

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Exactly, if you just looked at the stats of the Young Boys game you would think they were a world class team, and not the European Conference-level side, whose combined wage bill wouldn't even pay for a week of Pogba, that they are.
Did Pogba sign a new deal?
 

Olecurls99

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Don't think this has got enough attention. Ole's record at the top level is awful. 7 in 11 is not even amateur stuff. His record domestically is very good in comparison. Why is there such a disparity between the results in Europe and domestic league/cup football?
You don't play Barca and PSG every week in the PL. 6 of those 11 games were Barca and PSG yes?

Context is a mutha
 

Jezpeza

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so you find those acceptable? There is nothing more to be said
I would have hoped we would do better in all of the referenced games but anyone in touch realises football is never played on paper and I live in reality where I dont turn into a hysterical little tart when when the team i support doesnt win every match ever.
 

Keefy18

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No what’s annoying is a defeatist mentality bolstered by accusations of exaggerated statements that nobody is actually saying (the win by 7 goals nonsense.)
We can disagree so.

This line about "we're United" is complete waffle. We don't have a god given right to wins because it states Manchester United on the door.

Doesn't matter what name is on the door, you step out on to the pitch and it's anyone's to win. Doesn't matter what players you have, how much you've spent or any other number of factors.

In the last week we've lost to Young Boys, City drew with Southampton (Pep escapes criticism whilst its Ole out for doing the same) and PSG drew in the Champions league against Brugge then scrapped past midtable Lyon with an injury time winner.

Anything can happen. A silly red card, sloppy pass...
 

jem

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We can disagree so.

This line about "we're United" is complete waffle. We don't have a god given right to wins because it states Manchester United on the door.

Doesn't matter what name is on the door, you step out on to the pitch and it's anyone's to win. Doesn't matter what players you have, how much you've spent or any other number of factors.

In the last week we've lost to Young Boys, City drew with Southampton (Pep escapes criticism whilst its Ole out for doing the same) and PSG drew in the Champions league against Brugge then scrapped past midtable Lyon with an injury time winner.

Anything can happen. A silly red card, sloppy pass...
Definitely agree with this.
 

Bubz27

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Some of these teams were hard. We'll do well against poorer teams.
 

VidaRed

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As it stands currently we're bottom in the easiest group :lol:
 

Mark_Barca

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As it stands currently we're bottom in the easiest group :lol:
That's one of the problems, United fans overrate their team/squad and underrate others.

Its nowhere near the 'easiest group'.. Villarreal are EL champions and beat United in the final last year and Atalanta are a good side.

Was never going to be a walk in the park. That being said United are lucky to be on 3 points.
 

Adisa

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That's one of the problems, United fans overrate their team/squad and underrate others.

Its nowhere near the 'easiest group'.. Villarreal are EL champions and beat United in the final last year and Atalanta are a good side.

Was never going to be a walk in the park. That being said United are lucky to be on 3 points.
Liverpool and City would walk this group with their eyes closed. No group is easy but if we could pick a group, it wouldn't be far off this one. We are just totally shit.
 

Bubz27

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That's one of the problems, United fans overrate their team/squad and underrate others.

Its nowhere near the 'easiest group'.. Villarreal are EL champions and beat United in the final last year and Atalanta are a good side.

Was never going to be a walk in the park. That being said United are lucky to be on 3 points.
Which group is easier? Not a funny question, I haven't looked at them all.
 

Mark_Barca

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Which group is easier? Not a funny question, I haven't looked at them all.
United were in pot 2, so put them instead of Madrid, Sevilla or Dortmund and its an easier group imo
 

Bubz27

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United were in pot 2, so put them instead of Madrid, Sevilla or Dortmund and its an easier group imo
Sevilla yeah. Not sure about Dortmund's. But I guess the point is that it should be a fairly easy group.