"A quagmire of mediocrity" - anonymous member of staff at United

devilish

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The undisputed champion of getting duped into taking on the impossible and then paying the price for someone else's failures?
Incompetence is present from CEO level right to players level. We have a CEO and a recruitment guy who have no idea about football, possibly the least experienced manager and assistant manager (Carrick) in the EPL +an extremely shit side which is boosted by the most hyped kids in United's history

We need some very serious restructuring. The club need to be able to do more then 3 signings per summer, the scouting team need to be competent enough to find an alternative to longstaff, the manager need to know the basics of tactics and nepotism need to be kept to jobs within the United cafeteria
 

Eric7C

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The undisputed champion of getting duped into taking on the impossible and then paying the price for someone else's failures?
Yeah managerial genius with astute tactics and world-class coaching duped into leading one of the biggest clubs in the world, only beaten 1-0 by super-club Newcastle United with 3 shorts on target.
 

MisterLupus

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Incompetence is present from CEO level right to players level. We have a CEO and a recruitment guy who have no idea about football, possibly the least experienced manager and assistant manager (Carrick) in the EPL +an extremely shit side which is boosted by the most hyped kids in United's history

We need some very serious restructuring. The club need to be able to do more then 3 signings per summer, the scouting team need to be competent enough to find an alternative to longstaff, the manager need to know the basics of tactics and nepotism need to be kept to jobs within the United cafeteria
Can't say I disagree with anything. Don't consider tactics a problem though - just the lack of quality in carrying them out properly. More specifically - we're utterly impotent in the final third - other than that obvious regression (which was expected considering we butchered our already quite so unimpressive midfield and attacking setup without getting reinforcements) I'd say we're improved in pretty much every aspect since last year. And that failure is mostly down to the players themselves - because the pressure is there and the openings do appear frequently but our offensive players simply lack anything even resembling both vision and resolve plus - even when they do find their way to a real chance - they either freeze and mess up or can't even hit the stadium it seems because they're so anxious. As for nepotism - there's some but I don't see a lot of it among the fanbase - I mostly just see people disagreeing either partially or entirely (I belong to the former not the latter by the way) as to what our main concerns are.

It's not the coaching staff in my opinion - they're not perfect but to me the rot stems for certain higher-ups and the overall quality of our squad.

Yeah managerial genius with astute tactics and world-class coaching duped into leading one of the biggest clubs in the world, only beaten 1-0 by super-club Newcastle United with 3 shorts on target.
Blah blah blah. Never claimed our coaching staff was any of that - I'm just implying they're not our main problem and that given the circumstances it's still premature to be as dismissive of them as some of you guys are.
 
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Eric7C

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No discussion on United's current state under current management with and without the players sold in the summer is complete without a long hard look at that table.
 

Denis79

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No discussion on United's current state under current management with and without the players sold in the summer is complete without a long hard look at that table.
That's just...
 

Eric7C

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Yes it's horrid. Doesn't mean it's all down to our coaches.
The current state of the squad is a long time in the making - Woodward, the board and the Glazers are to blame.
The current state of tactics and playing style - 0 shots on target against AZ, 3 against Newcastle, Rashford's freekicks, Young's floating corners etc. - Ole and his coaches are to blame.

They are mutually exclusive problems. Even if we had David Gill and David Dein running the show upstairs, Ole is never going to be a good manager at this level. Never.
 

LoneStar

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still not convinced they are all Jose’s signings. The following insight from LVG regarding player recruitment and acquisitions is interesting and could explain some of the signings in both LVG’s and Jose’s stints.
Wow, very insightful interview. The structure of our club is fecked up.
 

devilish

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Can't say I disagree with anything. Don't consider tactics a problem though - just the lack of quality in carrying them out properly. More specifically - we're utterly impotent in the final third - other than that obvious regression (which was expected considering we butchered our already quite so unimpressive midfield and attacking setup without getting reinforcements) I'd say we're improved in pretty much every aspect since last year. And that failure is mostly down to the players themselves - because the pressure is there and the openings do appear frequently but our offensive players simply lack anything even resembling both vision and resolve plus - even when they do find their way to a real chance - they either freeze and mess up or can't even hit the stadium it seems because they're so anxious. As for nepotism - there's some but I don't see a lot of it among the fanbase - I mostly just see people disagreeing either partially or entirely (I belong to the former not the latter by the way) as to what our main concerns are.

It's not the coaching staff in my opinion - they're not perfect but to me the rot stems for certain higher-ups and the overall quality of our squad.



Blah blah blah. Never claimed our coaching staff was any of that - I'm just implying they're not our main problem and that given the circumstances it's still premature to be as dismissive of them as some of you guys are.
The squad isn't up to grabs but I'd expect that a half decent manager would be able to comfortably beat the likes of Astana, Newcastle and Rochdale. Instead we see our manager and coaching staff being constantly outwitted in every single game and against any opposition. I think that none of them has the experience, the cv and the quality to lead in the championship let alone at Manchester United
 

Bobcat

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And so it begins... Another manager that will be sacked in our hunt for the manager with a magic wand to transform 6 years of shit transfers into a title challenging side for our impatient fanbase.

Except this time it's one of own being dragged through the mud, he feckin' bleeds red, a proper legend. If they let him go at least wait until a game or so after this weekend, don't let Ole go out to the Scousers, he despises them just as much as us. He deserves more than that. I don't care if that sounds blind loyalty, at the end of the day that is part of being a football supporter - I don't care if they batter us, don't do Ole like that.

I don't think Ole was ever going to be a real long term manager here and I agree he has been found wanting tactically, but you know what his signings have been the best we have made in the years since SAF retired and nobody can doubt his commitment and love for the club.

He wouldn't accept players not wanting to be here, he got rid of a big chunk of this deadwood and in my opinion he wouldn't have let as many attackers leave without assurances from Ed that another striker would come in the summer (despite what he says in interviews, Ole tows the line because he respects the club and the broader picture with the press to say otherwise.) These are traits we haven't had in previous managers since SAF.

My hope was that he would clear the decks and instill a bit of backbone into the side before handing over to a more accomplished manager and perhaps become part of the backroom staff. I hoped he would be the one to make steady progress, nothing overnight, but strengthen the side piece by piece with a steady head and the right ethos.

A lot will be begging for him to get the sack but won't even remotely have an idea of who we should then bring in to replace him, not to mention the huge backing new managers demand from us. I mean who is available that will turn this team of sicknotes and teenagers into a top four side?
Would Pep or Klopp even achieve that with this squad in its current state? I very much doubt it.

We used to be a classy club once upon a time.
Spot on. Ole might be out of his depth, but just replacing him now is like putting a bandaid on a shotgun wound. So we sack him get a new one, he does better for a while, gets a summer window where he gets maybe 2-3 players, next season starts, we do about the same, murmurings about him getting sacked start to appear and we repeat the whole miserable process again
 

devilish

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Yes it's horrid. Doesn't mean it's all down to our coaches.
There is absolutely no argument to the fact that United can't compete for any honours this season with that squad. But surely we got enough players to do way better then what we are doing. That is down to the management and the coaching staff
 

devilish

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Spot on. Ole might be out of his depth, but just replacing him now is like putting a bandaid on a shotgun wound. So we sack him get a new one, he does better for a while, gets a summer window where he gets maybe 2-3 players, next season starts, we do about the same, murmurings about him getting sacked start to appear and we repeat the whole miserable process again
True However would you handle 300m to someone who is suited for amateur football?
 
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Suedesi

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I understand, but he's better than Chong and Pereria (squad player who could play inside or wide). Hard to comprehend I know, but that's where United are currently at.

Ryan Fraser would be a great signing for this current United squad.
It is beyond sad, but you’re right. When our best option forwards has been a 20 year old from the Championship, United cannot be snobby about Ryan Fraser or Townsend. Currently both would improve this team, although realistically United should have higher aspirations than either.
 

MisterLupus

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The current state of the squad is a long time in the making - Woodward, the board and the Glazers are to blame.
The current state of tactics and playing style - 0 shots on target against AZ, 3 against Newcastle, Rashford's freekicks, Young's floating corners etc. - Ole and his coaches are to blame.

They are mutually exclusive problems. Even if we had David Gill and David Dein running the show upstairs, Ole is never going to be a good manager at this level. Never.
Trust me I've seen every game since the eighties (well more or less skipped a few here and there due to circumstances probably a lot actually as the years have piled but ever since Solskjaer took over I've been consistent) - and even though I came in at a horrible time (when we finished 11th) I'd never dream to see a bad run like this ever again. It's unfathomable - so we agree on just how crap this is no questions asked there. Where we disagree though is the concept of what's (or who's) to blame - and I don't see the coaching staff or the tactics deployed as our main issue at all because our play opens up chances all the time - our buildup warrants way more than we're currently getting. In fact most aspects of our play (possession, work rate, defensive stability and even pressure) has improved since last year - and we often create space - even see good runs into these open spaces - but the players are either blind to these making all kinds of weird decisions stalling and disrupting our play in the final third rather than utilizing these openings - or - when they actually do manage to spot them and get a decent chance in - either mistimes by a fraction or shits themselves before completely wasting the opportunity.

Dude we probably won't agree on this - but please at least acknowledge that I'm not much for nepotism nor am I a simpleton of sorts. I'm not even uncritical of Ole - it was totally unforgiving not reinforcing our midfield and attack this summer (if that decision was indeed his that is which I doubt actually due to his preseason statements and our failure in recruitment across many years now) - and I find him very gullible in terms of how he assesses his own players. This blind loyalty he continues to exhibit towards individuals who simply aren't good enough to make it at this level even fecked him over in the past as well - when he brought a lot of youngsters he'd worked with at previous clubs into Cardiff for whatever reasons and these didn't deliver anything of value at all. So it puzzles me seeing as how he's experienced this in the past that he still insists on wasting everyone's time and his own chances at success trusting players who are mediocre at best (I'm talking about Fred and Mata here in particular because even though I really like the latter at least I doubt anyone's been excited about our chances after watching either of them entering the pit ever).

But hey let's compromise shall we? Because my support is not unconditional. If we still struggle in the bottom half with relegation looming above us come Christmas - our current coaching staff needs replacing absolutely - and if we can't manage top-six at the end of the season (originally I said top-four but then we got hit with a half-arsed transfer window so I lowered the bar) - I also agree that their time has come. And next season I expect us to be solidified back within the top-four again. Because I honestly believe we are just two-three good signings away from getting there and that even our current squad should be able to keep us somewhat afloat up until then - and also that an additional two-three quality rotation options should lift us back where we truly belong by 21/22.

All in all - I see positives and negatives in regards to this project - I'm not perfectly convinced but nor do I find cause to be dismissive at this point due to the context surrounding our catastrophic run. I feel placing all the blame on our coaching is unwarranted - that in fact they're nowhere near as responsible as many suggest - and I may be guilty of wrongful accusations here but I'm also pretty sure that if we were in this exact same situation and our manager's name wasn't Solskjaer but something more along the line of Pochettino or Klopp - a lot more would agree with me on this.

There is absolutely no argument to the fact that United can't compete for any honours this season with that squad. But surely we got enough players to do way better then what we are doing. That is down to the management and the coaching staff
See the above answer that's my assessment of this disaster we're all witnessing :)
 
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060258

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Interesting to read this morning, that the players "have lost faith" in yet another manager.

One wonders just how many mangers these under performing, over hyped cnuts are going to burn through.
 

UpWithRivers

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Why is the excuse that Sanchez and Lukaku had to go because they wanted to leave keep repeating itself. Its complete nonsense. If there were no replacements then you tell them you cant go. Pogba wanted to leave and we kept him. Dave wanted to leave a few times. Loads of players want to leave clubs but clubs generally refuse if it doesn't suit the team. Yeah I agree better get rid if a player wants to go but if you are so short of players and have no replacements then tough - tell them to fight it out and they can go next year if a replacement is found. We would be far better off with a an unhappy Sanchez and Lukaku and anyway they shouldn't be unhappy even if they were refused exits because they are professionals and its the coaching teams job to get them settled again and ready to go. Everything about this club stinks. The way we do everything is just wrong. We are so bad that I dream of a team with Fellaini, Sanchez, Lukaku, Herrera and Smalling.
 

devilish

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Trust me I've seen every game since the eighties (well more or less skipped a few here and there due to circumstances probably a lot actually as the years have piled but ever since Solskjaer took over I've been consistent) - and even though I came in at a horrible time (when we finished 11th) I'd never dream to see a bad run like this ever again. It's unfathomable - so we agree on just how crap this is no questions asked there. Where we disagree though is the concept of what's (or who's) to blame - and I don't see the coaching staff or the tactics deployed as our main issue at all because our play opens up chances all the time - our buildup warrants way more than we're currently getting. In fact most aspects of our play (possession, work rate, defensive stability and even pressure) has improved since last year - and we often create space - even see good runs into these open spaces - but the players are either blind to these making all kinds of weird decisions stalling and disrupting our play in the final third rather than utilizing these openings - or - when they actually do manage to spot them and get a decent chance in - either mistimes by a fraction or shits themselves before completely wasting the opportunity.

Dude we probably won't agree on this - but please at least acknowledge that I'm not much for nepotism nor am I a simpleton of sorts. I'm not even uncritical of Ole - it was totally unforgiving not reinforcing our midfield and attack this summer (if that decision was indeed his that is which I doubt actually due to his preseason statements and our failure in recruitment across many years now) - and I find him very gullible in terms of how he assesses his own players. This blind loyalty he continues to exhibit towards individuals who simply aren't good enough to make it at this level even fecked him over in the past as well - when he brought a lot of youngsters he'd worked with at previous clubs into Cardiff for whatever reasons and these didn't deliver anything of value at all. So it puzzles me seeing as how he's experienced this in the past that he still insists on wasting everyone's time and his own chances at success trusting players who are mediocre at best (I'm talking about Fred and Mata here in particular because even though I really like the latter at least I doubt anyone's been excited about our chances after watching either of them entering the pit ever).

But hey let's compromise shall we? Because my support is not unconditional. If we still struggle in the bottom half with relegation looming above us come Christmas - our current coaching staff needs replacing absolutely - and if we can't manage top-six at the end of the season (originally I said top-four but then we got hit with a half-arsed transfer window so I lowered the bar) - I also agree that their time has come. And next season I expect us to be solidified back within the top-four again. Because I honestly believe we are just two-three good signings away from getting there and that even our current squad should be able to keep us somewhat afloat up until then - and also that an additional two-three quality rotation options should lift us back where we truly belong by 21/22.

All in all - I see positives and negatives in regards to this project - I'm not perfectly convinced but nor do I find cause to be dismissive at this point due to the context surrounding our catastrophic run. I feel placing all the blame on our coaching is unwarranted - that in fact they're nowhere near as responsible as many suggest - and I may be guilty of wrongful accusations here but I'm also pretty sure that if we were in this exact same situation and our manager's name wasn't Solskjaer but something more along the line of Pochettino or Klopp - a lot more would agree with me on this.



See the above answer that's my assessment of this disaster we're all witnessing :)
I am afraid that I don't share your optimism. I find their tactics to be very naive and our gameplay extremely predictable which is why teams with far less talent than we have are able to outwit us

Ask yourself this question. Can you see the likes of Ole and Carrick managing at any other other big club? So yes nepotism is a problem
 

devilish

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Why is the excuse that Sanchez and Lukaku had to go because they wanted to leave keep repeating itself. Its complete nonsense. If there were no replacements then you tell them you cant go. Pogba wanted to leave and we kept him. Dave wanted to leave a few times. Loads of players want to leave clubs but clubs generally refuse if it doesn't suit the team. Yeah I agree better get rid if a player wants to go but if you are so short of players and have no replacements then tough - tell them to fight it out and they can go next year if a replacement is found. We would be far better off with a an unhappy Sanchez and Lukaku and anyway they shouldn't be unhappy even if they were refused exits because they are professionals and its the coaching teams job to get them settled again and ready to go. Everything about this club stinks. The way we do everything is just wrong. We are so bad that I dream of a team with Fellaini, Sanchez, Lukaku, Herrera and Smalling.
It's evident that this was leaked by the pro Ole camp. I'm expecting something similar to happen from the Woodward's camp. It would be in the line of we were close to sign ndombele & Bruno fernandes but ole only wanted longstaff
 

Treble

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No discussion on United's current state under current management with and without the players sold in the summer is complete without a long hard look at that table.
A reminder for those thinking relegation battle is not likely...

Ole has inherited a team that finished 2nd, has spent 150m to improve it, performs worse than Jose and complains about not spending enough...

Why assassinate the deadwood if you don't have adequate replacements in the squad? Isn't that worse than mediocrity?
 

MisterLupus

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I am afraid that I don't share your optimism. I find their tactics to be very naive and our gameplay extremely predictable which is why teams with far less talent than we have are able to outwit us

Ask yourself this question. Can you see the likes of Ole and Carrick managing at any other other big club? So yes nepotism is a problem
Well as my post suggests I actually think they'd do better anywhere but here - that this club in it's current state would be an uphill battle for any manager and that joining us might very well prove itself a mistake equal to what he made when deciding to join Cardiff. Seriously he looks emotionally exhausted - his expression reminds me of my own way back when I lost someone truly dear to me and I found myself struck by grief. As for nepotism - I've made my argument and unless you see a "He's a club legend we must support him" or anything even hinting to that point - you really shouldn't attempt to criticize me or anyone else on that basis. It's not very polite painting stubs on someone and then discredit them for not having shaved properly.

Oh and if anything - when reading my posts - don't I strike you as somewhat intellectually vain? Pretentious even? It's a bit ironic on my behalf but trust me when I say that people such as myself - who strive to appear analytical and objective in all things and who hate being wrong in our assessments (I'd still admit to it though if I felt someone put forth a stronger argument than my own) - can't afford that kind of sentimental nonsense nor would we risk being rightfully accused of such as that would shatter our credibility and hence our also our totally justified sense of superiority. I may want Ole to succeed - it would be a fairytale for sure and one I'd love to experience - but to sacrifice my principles over it constitutes a huge no-no. Believe you me that if I didn't see anything worth keeping in this project I would support trashing it in a heartbeat - and depending on whether or not Ole and his crew manages to deliver in accordance to my criteria the day may yet come when I do ;)
 

el3mel

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Because Ole is not classless.
What does class have to with saving your face when a crisis is happening? Anyway that's not the point. The point is what prevents him from being stupid enough to agree with a season like that? It's actually totally possible, nothing prevents it.
 

Class of 63

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The squad isn't up to grabs but I'd expect that a half decent manager would be able to comfortably beat the likes of Astana, Newcastle and Rochdale. Instead we see our manager and coaching staff being constantly outwitted in every single game and against any opposition. I think that none of them has the experience, the cv and the quality to lead in the championship let alone at Manchester United
SAF had more than his fair share of dodgy results/performances against teams of that standing, and lower, and that was when we were by some distance the best in the Land.
 

devilish

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SAF had more than his fair share of dodgy results/performances against teams of that standing, and lower, and that was when we were by some distance the best in the Land.
Ole is being outwitted on a week in week out basis though
 

Ranchero

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There was more in this off-the-record take on what is going on behind the scenes that was revealing.

According to the report " it was stressed by multiple United staff members that keeping strikers Romelu Lukaku and Alexis Sanchez would have been counter-productive because the pair had made it known they no longer wished to be at the club".

And yet Paul Pogba was allowed to stay, being more vocal than anyone about wanting to leave. Baffling.

There were questions about the ability to get deals over the line over the club's major transfer negotiator, head of corporate development ironically named Matt Judge. "Woodward has previously defended the recruitment team and structure but one agent - who has been trying to arrange a loan deal for a client - has rather cruelly suggested Judge should be going out on loan to further his experience."

God help us.
 

Judas

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Feel sorry that this is happening to Ole, but he should never have been in this position in the first place.

Ed's got himself another scapegoat and will buy himself more time once again.
 

Eric7C

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Trust me I've seen every game since the eighties (well more or less skipped a few here and there due to circumstances probably a lot actually as the years have piled but ever since Solskjaer took over I've been consistent) - and even though I came in at a horrible time (when we finished 11th) I'd never dream to see a bad run like this ever again. It's unfathomable - so we agree on just how crap this is no questions asked there. Where we disagree though is the concept of what's (or who's) to blame - and I don't see the coaching staff or the tactics deployed as our main issue at all because our play opens up chances all the time - our buildup warrants way more than we're currently getting. In fact most aspects of our play (possession, work rate, defensive stability and even pressure) has improved since last year - and we often create space - even see good runs into these open spaces - but the players are either blind to these making all kinds of weird decisions stalling and disrupting our play in the final third rather than utilizing these openings - or - when they actually do manage to spot them and get a decent chance in - either mistimes by a fraction or shits themselves before completely wasting the opportunity.

Dude we probably won't agree on this - but please at least acknowledge that I'm not much for nepotism nor am I a simpleton of sorts. I'm not even uncritical of Ole - it was totally unforgiving not reinforcing our midfield and attack this summer (if that decision was indeed his that is which I doubt actually due to his preseason statements and our failure in recruitment across many years now) - and I find him very gullible in terms of how he assesses his own players. This blind loyalty he continues to exhibit towards individuals who simply aren't good enough to make it at this level even fecked him over in the past as well - when he brought a lot of youngsters he'd worked with at previous clubs into Cardiff for whatever reasons and these didn't deliver anything of value at all. So it puzzles me seeing as how he's experienced this in the past that he still insists on wasting everyone's time and his own chances at success trusting players who are mediocre at best (I'm talking about Fred and Mata here in particular because even though I really like the latter at least I doubt anyone's been excited about our chances after watching either of them entering the pit ever).

But hey let's compromise shall we? Because my support is not unconditional. If we still struggle in the bottom half with relegation looming above us come Christmas - our current coaching staff needs replacing absolutely - and if we can't manage top-six at the end of the season (originally I said top-four but then we got hit with a half-arsed transfer window so I lowered the bar) - I also agree that their time has come. And next season I expect us to be solidified back within the top-four again. Because I honestly believe we are just two-three good signings away from getting there and that even our current squad should be able to keep us somewhat afloat up until then - and also that an additional two-three quality rotation options should lift us back where we truly belong by 21/22.

All in all - I see positives and negatives in regards to this project - I'm not perfectly convinced but nor do I find cause to be dismissive at this point due to the context surrounding our catastrophic run. I feel placing all the blame on our coaching is unwarranted - that in fact they're nowhere near as responsible as many suggest - and I may be guilty of wrongful accusations here but I'm also pretty sure that if we were in this exact same situation and our manager's name wasn't Solskjaer but something more along the line of Pochettino or Klopp - a lot more would agree with me on this.



See the above answer that's my assessment of this disaster we're all witnessing :)
I am sorry, you have identified the problems in your post, but you don't want to place it on the coaching. Why not? These are international players, if they are making blind and weird decisions in the final third, then that is absolutely down to the coaches to tell them and make them change it. Yet we have half a season worth of games to see that nothing is changing. Who's responsibility is it to make them change?

Also let's take this one by one:
Possession: In the two games we have won this season, we actually had less possession; against Chelsea and Leicester. Coincidence? No. This team is only effective when counter attacking. Ole can simply not coach this team in attacking patterns when teams sit back and absorb pressure. In those scenarios, it is us who have been successfully counter-attacked or sucker-punched.
Work rate & pressure: Our pressing is still erratic and does not work cohesively - we barely win the ball back from teams. Also, it is not focused - Rashord making 50 yard dashes to close down the keeper ffs - and it is causing muscle injuries.
Defensive stability: We have conceded in every game bar two (and in one of those games the opposition hit the bar thrice). Even this has been achieved by playing with two holding midfielders, which contributes in hindering our attacks against lesser opposition.
 

Eric7C

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A reminder for those thinking relegation battle is not likely...

Ole has inherited a team that finished 2nd, has spent 150m to improve it, performs worse than Jose and complains about not spending enough...

Why assassinate the deadwood if you don't have adequate replacements in the squad? Isn't that worse than mediocrity?
Ole is a romantic; he wants to recreate some mythical United identity in which only players who die for the badge will play for this club (well, except Pogba). feck coaching, who needs that.
 

devilish

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I wouldn't say that but teams are taking advantage of the lack of confidence running through the team again. Not sure that's all on the Manager, but can understand why some would think it was.
Lack of confidence but also a lack of tactics. We seem to be only able to beat teams with pace. Once that is tackled we are pretty much clueless