"A quagmire of mediocrity" - anonymous member of staff at United

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Bastian, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. Oct 8, 2019

    el3mel Full Member

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    The guy didn't want to come here, and we didn't even want him to start with. As I said the whole deal was Juve trying to force him in Lukaku swap deal to screw Inter. We didn't go to them for Dybala, and he himself didn't want to leave at all.
  2. Oct 8, 2019

    Jaqen H'ghar I can't drive...55

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    This is how I feel. I don't think I'm going to change my mind. I don't trust the board with replacing the manager or backing the new one. I'm not sure I would trust a manager who takes the job in current conditions and is willing to be part of this circus.
  3. Oct 8, 2019

    ash_86 Full Member

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    We started with Dybala and then when it reached a dead end then we went for Manzukic. This shows that the manager did say pull out of Dybala and get me the other guy. Of course the board failed to deliver that too. What i'm getting from this is that at no point Ole was ready to go into the season with our present strikers as only options. Board is simply pathetic to get anything done. They took until the last week of window to finalize Maguire by paying World record fee for a defender. I mean, how could could it be more pathetic for club size of ours.
  4. Oct 8, 2019

    Jaqen H'ghar I can't drive...55

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    There are other ways to pressure the board besides the media. Ole has direct contact and can tell them whatever he wants in person.

    What I don't get about the Ole out campaign is you want the same guys who hired him and all our previous flops to appoint a new manager. Are you hoping they'll be lucky and stumble on the right manager this time?
  5. Oct 8, 2019

    billybee99 New Member

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    Oh yeah right. And then guys like you said: oh just give Ole a preseason. Just give him a preseason to whip them into shape so they can play his pressing style. They have horrible fitness after 3 years with Jose. Now after a preseason with Ole, they're still playing like crap and we're back to the "injuries" excuse.
  6. Oct 8, 2019

    el3mel Full Member

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    We didn't start with Dybale, read what I mentioned above. He was offered to us, not the opposite. Juve wanted to hijack Lukaku Inter deal by forcing him as a swap. We didn't go to them for him.

    As for Mandzukic he's probably one of those whom Ole mentioned by those who we should not pay money for him and "wait" thanks to this :

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ool-interest-mario-mandzukic-juventus-asking/

    I don't even what "right target". I'll bet we were searching for that "right target" and we didn't find any so decided to not pay over the odds for the likes of Mandzukic, which Ole seems to actually approve of.
  7. Oct 8, 2019

    el3mel Full Member

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    And what is the evidence of him pressing the board off media if we went by the claim they fecked up the squad at the end for him?

    Also who said just because we want Ole out it means we can't be wanting Woodward out to? I want Ed out and not be in charge of appointing next manager. That doesn't change the fact Ole is a terrible coach and an awful manager. Both are not mutually exclusive, you know. Just because we have a terrible CEO, it means we should stick with a terrible manager, especially when said manager looks like a total yes man to the board and looks like just happy to stick around with the job even regardless of what the board is doing with the squad.
  8. Oct 8, 2019

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian Scout

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    "A quagmire of mediocrity" doesn't sound like something a football source would say. "Indeed, sir, it is a veritable maelstrom of inadequacy!"
  9. Oct 8, 2019

    ash_86 Full Member

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    When you go looking for a striker with 3 days left in a window, of couse you are going to be quoted unreasonable prices. The board was actively talking to Inter Milan for months and they decided to sell him with 1 week left in the window. The incompetence of the board here surpasses that of the manager.
  10. Oct 8, 2019

    fergiesarmy1 Full Member

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    That’s not my argument, the fact we offered a package that was rejected shows we were looking for another attacker and what Ole said in the press about being happy with just those 3 was him not throwing his toys out like Jose did the previous season.
  11. Oct 8, 2019

    Denis79 Full Member

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    That is a very good point.
  12. Oct 8, 2019

    Bird Nerd New Member

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    So we replace the manager...then what? Same transfer incompetence from Woodward. Same BS of the board dragging their feet. No consistent plan which would be there with a real DOF that reports not to Woodturd but owners. Basically we replace the manager and the circle starts all over until the axle of the wheel (Woodturd) is gone.

    In regards to another coach I would prefer a young coach that has zero affiliation with MU. We need a new philosophy not this living in the past crap That is over and to bed. We need powerful DOF and a manager as previously mentioned. And ties cut with the old hierarchy of the club.
  13. Oct 8, 2019

    United Hobbit Full Member

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  14. Oct 8, 2019

    redIndianDevil Full Member

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    Ole right now is on the level of David Moyes, would you give David Moyes time just to have some "continuity"?

    There will be no rewards to reap 2-3 years down the line if you give some clueless manager more time, you are just postponing us getting better with an actual decent coach.

    I don't really care about the state of the Norwegian league, who knows the other Norwegian clubs could be worse than League 2 sides.

    No one is asking instant results from Ole, if he can't even setup our side to play decently against the likes of Astana, Rochdale then he has to go.

    Also you are giving too much credit to Ole for selling unwanted players, anyone could have done that.
  15. Oct 8, 2019

    redIndianDevil Full Member

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    Should we just keep the same crap manager because there is a chance the board/woodward could feck up again?
  16. Oct 8, 2019

    Melville Red Full Member

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    Who is this Matt Judge? Get rid and get Judge Grinder, I mean Rinder.
  17. Oct 8, 2019

    Bastian Full Member

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    That's quite telling. There was some piece on this earlier this year about how many players are still at United vs. Liverpool/City. We are slow to trim the fat.
  18. Oct 8, 2019

    Bastian Full Member

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    As if Judge could do anything without the prior approval of Woodward. Judge, like Ole, like the scouting staff, like the coaching staff, like the players, is Woodward's responsibility, who in turn, is the Glazer henchman.
  19. Oct 8, 2019

    fergiesarmy1 Full Member

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    The fat are slow to get trim here also :lol:
  20. Oct 8, 2019

    United Hobbit Full Member

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    I thought it was too, obviously its been over time but they had so many average players now have a side full of good players, they have a few that arent great but like with Fergie's United they are properly coached and also surrounded by more good players than average ones. I was having a discussion with a Liverpool fan recently and he said he wouldn't swap any of their players for ours.
  21. Oct 8, 2019

    Bastian Full Member

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    Yeah, I'd be surprised if they'd swap any too. That being said, I think Klopp could get a tune out of Martial. Personally I think we've got something with the three new recruits and the homegrown talent. Neville isn't wrong when he's talking about needing a spine of top class players. But we've all been saying that for years now.
  22. Oct 8, 2019

    United Hobbit Full Member

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    Interestingly Martial is one of the few he would like to see under Klopp.
  23. Oct 8, 2019

    Bobcat Full Member

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    Exactly, but considering this and the state of our squad, there is no doubt too much responsibility is placed on Ole. Of course he (Ole) is partly at fault for our awful form, but putting all the blame square on him is unfair and naive. Any other manager would still have to contend with a lacking structure and a shite squad.

    If this was 2014 i would have wanted Ole gone yesterday, but the truth is we have been awful for years now, we have been chopping and changing managers and it has not magically fixed us. And by the way, i would have said the same if we had literally any other manager with the same results. I wanted Moyes gone because he took the league champions and made them into a joke, i was ambivalent to LvG being sacked because i think he did fine even though our football was dull as feck, i really did not want Jose gone, but there was really not any choice since he was in full meltdown

    Now though? We have burned through decorated coaches for fun, yet the underlying problems are still there and i firmly believe that changing managers wont do much unless there are profound changes both in club structure and in the squad

    Yeah this is where i am at as well. I just find it baffling that Woody and co are going to outlast their 4th manager in 6 years by the looks of it, yet it is the manager yet again who has to take the fall. If we were a well run club with a competent squad there would be no excuses, but there are so many other problems besides the manager that needs solving. Woody has played us all and if he can just keep blaming and sacking managers with impunity then we will go nowhere

    The difference was that Moyes took over a squad that had just walked the league and had multiple PL and CL winners in it. Ole took over a squad in full meltdown, had a miraculous winning streak, before it went back to full meltdown. Imo, there is something seriously wrong with the mentality of many of our current players. Of course they should beat Astana and Rochdale comfortably, but is the responsibility on those pathetic performances on coaching alone?

    You dont go on a 12 game winning streak on luck alone, and during that period it was all smiles and joy and it seemed everyone in the squad had something to say about how great it was to play under Ole. Then we went from that to this. What the feck happned? Did Ole tell them to start playing like fannies? Did he tell them to blast every long range effort into row z? Did he tell them to misplace simple 10 yard passes or spend an eternity trapping a simple ball? Did he tell them to miss penalties and sitter after sitter while we concede soft goals because they are to busy scratching their arses?

    The fact is that we have had good control in the majority of the matches this season, but have failed badly in key moments again and again.
  24. Oct 8, 2019

    AneRu Full Member

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    If they run the club properly i.e made the right recruitment decisions both on managers and players its arguable that they wouldn't have to enjoy 'slightly reduced dividends'. Imagine that United have broken revenue records after a catastrophic season like the last one, how big would the revenue be if we actually won the PL and reached the CL semis? It's not like Liverpool had to spend hundreds of millions on each player, hell their fabled front three cost them around £100m!!

    It's clear that sorting the football side which should lead to more efficient recruitment and better results will ultimately benefit them the most because we are one of the two clubs in England that can effectively monetize success on the pitch. Imo, if they brought a DOF and reined in on Woodward and Judge the work required on the squad isn't that big. Three smart signings in midfield and attack coupled with a few promotions will improve the side and where we are right now isn't really reflective of the actual abilities of this side.
  25. Oct 8, 2019

    Jaqen H'ghar I can't drive...55

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    Well, no. It's a matter of priorities. It's easy to change the manager, but I want whoever is charge of doing that to have a clue of why they are doing it, not just "He didn't get results" or "The manager didn't make top 4". They should also hire a manager whose methods they can get behind and have the intentions and means to support. The current board don't seem to understand this.

    There's also the factor that we're not an attractive club to be at. Didn't Klopp turn us down after meeting with Ed? Probably saw through hid BS and stayed away. I don't think any self respecting manager would risk his name to come and work with this lot.
  26. Oct 8, 2019

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    Not that i disagree with you that this squad is worse compared to the one Moyes took over, but then again i would rather have the 11 players that won the league for Leicester.

    Mentality is something that is difficult to gauge. What is easy to evaluate is the players basic ability as footballers. Can they receive and pass the ball? No they can't as you correctly state. The reason we are shit now is that we do not have any players available that have any idea on how to control the game. So without PP and Martial we will continue to struggle. If OGS was promised more signings(midfielders or a striker) in addition to the overpriced british players we bought then he should be somewhat excused, but if it was understould that he would have to decide between Maguire for £80m and no midfielders or midfielders and no Maguire then he should be sacked just on the basis on this.
  27. Oct 8, 2019

    el3mel Full Member

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    Sorry for the late replay.

    Why did we go search for strikers for 3 days in the market? Lukaku was negotiating with Inter the entire summer as I said and we had enough to sign a replacement. He didn't play a single minute in preseason.

    Waiitng till you sell your player to sign his replacement makes no sense. Clubs will know you are desperate to sign a player and will bully you with ridiculous fees, unlike if you still have your player, there will ba chance that even if you fail to get a replacement, you can always scrap the idea of selling him and keep him for one more season.

    Selling Lukaku earlier in summer or on the last day should have made no difference. He didn't play a single minutes in the preseason and was so obvious he was leaving anyway. Searching for a striker should have been active the entire summer, not after selling him.

    We actually wanted a striker anyway regardless of Lukaku situation.
  28. Oct 8, 2019

    Jaqen H'ghar I can't drive...55

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    The current leaks that he wanted to replace 9 players, for one.

    When Jose went to the media with his opinions on the board and players, he was called toxic and a coward for throwing players under the bus. Remember the 'Heritage' rant he got slaughtered on here for?
    Then we just have different priorities. I want Woodward out first, so no more time is wasted. A new manager in this climate is like putting a band aid on a gangrene.

    I understand the anger at the performances and results, for me it's about priorities and channeling them in the right direction. Ole didn't appoint himself, did he? So let's focus on getting rid of the structure that has allowed this shit show to go on for six years, because our problems predate Ole by a long, long time. Or sack him, but that's neither here nor there, and the mediocrity will continue.

    Another important point is that no top manager would want this job with the state the club and our squad are in . Any manager who would accept working under Woodward is a fool, and I wouldn't trust a fool.
  29. Oct 8, 2019

    el3mel Full Member

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    He leaked this stuff after the season got fecked and after he said on multiple occasions it was his decision and he's happy with the squad etc. It just looks like since things went bad it's time to save our face. These leaks should have been present earlier. He should have expressed his discontent with the market in subtle way to show things didn't go as he liked if that was the truth.

    I honestly never agreed with the "toxic" complains about Mourinho quotes. I liked his honesty, and that at the end he had enough balls to go against the board. Maybe he overdid it but at the end he made his point clear and wasn't lying to the fans. I prefer this to positive delusional comments in the media that grew old very fast when the results are terrible. Not saying Mourinho didn't do any mistakes or shouldn't have left btw.

    Regarding second point, I don't both sacked asap. Both should leave on the same time or so. Ole should be sacked and Woodward should be either totally sacked or relieved of his duties of overseeing the football side of the club. I agree that he should never be in position to choose the next manager.
  30. Oct 8, 2019

    Greck Full Member

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    It may not have been Ole who leaked it. If anything Ole has been willing to own up to his poor decisions even when fans are willing to give him an easy way out and put it on the board. Was more likely someone else on his team. Even Phelan would be a bigger suspect. Who else but him and Carrick are up for the sack? It's not really a long suspect list
  31. Oct 8, 2019

    AneRu Full Member

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    I still think it was Woodward and the line throwing Judge under the bus confirms this for me. It's basically Woodward saying Ole wanted more players, the money for new players was there but Judge messed up the negotiations. I think Woodward recognizes that throwing Ole under the bus won't work this time, the fans love him and the club beneath the executive support him. Woodward won't emerge from fecking Ole over unscathed, stupid as the Glazers maybe I think this will be step too far.
  32. Oct 8, 2019

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    This isn’t a case of one person being inept. There are multiple staff that are and this is why we are in the mess we are in.

    The Glazer’s giving full control to Woodward

    Woodward’s terrible judgement with managers, having some say in transfer targets and not hiring a qualified and experienced DOF.

    Judge who clearly can’t negotiate transfers or contracts.

    Head of scouting who can’t seem to identify any players at all without then costing 25% plus more than any other club has to pay. When was the last time we actually unearthed a gem? Probably Chicharito. For example we could have easily got Håland in the summer for peanuts. He played with Solskjaer, Haaland even complimented Ole in a recent interview. But no he goes to Austria and is absolutely destroying the league, next stop will be somewhere like Dortmund. Only at that point when he has a release clause of £100m will the club look at him.

    Solskjaer’s terrible coaching, management of the team and judgement of the quality of squad he was left with after deciding to sell a lot of players.
  33. Oct 8, 2019

    Chairman Steve Full Member

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    I’m happy we didn’t cave into Dybalas probably ridiculous wages demands, but surely the club has more than one player on its shortlist for such positions? I mean our scouting seems to be based on obvious British talents and obvious continental talents. Is no-one doing a little bit more scouting than what a TV pundit can easily point out?

    How about we try find a Mahrez or a Kante like Leicester did?
  34. Oct 8, 2019

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    100%. Only reason i can see for why Woodward to continue in his job and meddling (which we assume he does) in football related activities is that unless the new EPL TV-deal doubles in value the club will seriously struggle to increase its revenues and become less profitable. And the longer this continues the more likely the Glazers are to sell the club.
  35. Oct 8, 2019

    Bastian Full Member

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    I agree that the club is drenched in incompetence. But Woodward more or less oversees the running of the club alongside the Glazers. Matt Judge is his responsibility. And it was reported that Woodward handled the Maguire deal because he had a personal connection to a director there, so he made an executive decision to see that through, ending as we know with him paying a price he was quoted at the end of May, at the end of the window after repeatedly failing to lower the price.
  36. Oct 8, 2019

    Greck Full Member

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    Doesn't really make sense. Everything in bold seems like a stretch. Judge gets instructions from him. From what i gather he's basically like his deputy. He can't call him incompetent without calling himself incompetent. Judge can't overrule Ed or make decisions contrary to his wishes. He's basically an extension of his office. Ed would have to be a literal drooling imbecile to throw him under the bus. The leak isn't from woodward imo. The Judge diss is what confirms it for me
  37. Oct 8, 2019

    AneRu Full Member

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    But Judge can be given a task and fail to execute it, I just think that if its from Woodward it would be him sacrificing Judge because he knows how risky it is to throw Ole under the bus. I doubt Woodward will emerge from the Ole situation unscathed and he will want a situation where he makes it seem like he has stood by him till it was no longer possible. Judge on the other hand is an easy target that will distract the fans a bit.
  38. Oct 8, 2019

    redIndianDevil Full Member

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    Not all blame should be on Ole but most of it should go on the manager. He is the one setting up the team, he's the on training the team day in day out.

    Yes the 12 game streak was blind luck and the "new manager bounce", all managers take some time to coach a squad(Neither Guardiola not Klopp magically coached their teams to play like they do now overnight), how come Ole alone can transform a squad overnight?

    Do you know why City's team pass quickly like they do without making mistakes, it's because they train and practise rondos in every training session, you can look at many of Guardiola's interviews, training rondos is one of the most important routines for his style of football, that is why City are so good at walking the ball into the net. Again look at Liverpool's pressing, their pressing is very well organized, that again comes from daily training, that pressing is Klopp's trademark, he trains all of his team to play that way. Does Ole do any of this? What type of football are we playing?

    Also the "good control" that you say we had in our games is not correct, we had possession that's because that's exactly what the opposition want us to do, also no we are not missing "sitter after sitters", we miss one/two chances at best in the entire 90 minutes, most good teams, even City need to create 10-12 to score 2-3 goals. The fact that our team is capable of creating 1-2 chances the entire game is down to Ole's coaching or the lack of it.
  39. Oct 8, 2019

    redIndianDevil Full Member

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    I want us to get rid of Ole because he has no idea or any clue to coach our team, he is out of his depth, why should we continue with him when he's never going to get better? Even a broken clock is right twice a day, may be our board will finally get lucky and get a decent coach in, I'd be far happy knowing the new manager may get things right than supporting a manager who I know is never going to get better.
  40. Oct 8, 2019

    George The Best Full Member

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    Nah, 95% of the fan base won’t even know who Judge is and what he does, besides that they’re mates. Only way Ed could sell it is by replacing him with a genuine DoF - don’t hold your breath.