A season of two halves...

Pogue Mahone

The caf's Camus.
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Feb 22, 2006
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First 19 games
P 19 W7 D7 L5 F30 A23 GD+7 Points 28 (8th place)

Most recent 18 game
P 18 W10 D5 L3 F34 A13 GD+21 Points 35 (3rd place; 5 points behind City, 9 points behind Liverpool)

For me, deciding whether to retain a manager is about trajectory. And our trajectory looks good, despite recent wobbles. It's also good to see that we've done better than our CL rivals during this run. My only concern is the absolute points total. If you take the 35 points from our second half season performance and double it we wouldn't make top four in any of the previous three seasons, never mind getting anywhere near the top of the league. And that's not good at all.

Discuss.
 

red4ever 79

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The Bruno factor is evident to see, also you can see what a criminal decision it was not to replace Lukaku last summer, because there is no getting away from the fact the form and performances in the first half of the season could cost us this seaon. I will reserve judgement until after next Sunday, the performance the last few games look like they are falling away at a crucial time. Top 4 is a must and good recruitment in the summer is a must.
 

Vault Dweller

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
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First 19 games
P 19 W7 D7 L5 F30 A23 GD+7 Points 28 (8th place)

Most recent 18 game
P 18 W10 D5 L3 F34 A13 GD+21 Points 35 (3rd place; 5 points behind City, 9 points behind Liverpool)

For me, deciding whether to retain a manager is about trajectory. And our trajectory looks good, despite recent wobbles. It's also good to see that we've done better than our CL rivals during this run. My only concern is the absolute points total. If you take the 35 points from our second half season performance and double it we wouldn't make top four in any of the previous three seasons, never mind getting anywhere near the top of the league. And that's not good at all.

Discuss.
Agreed that it's about trajectory Pogue. We have looked much better the second half of the season and our fate is in our own hands. If we get the job done on Sunday Ole deserves next season without a doubt.

The squad is the issue for me. There clearly isn't enough quality beyond the starting 11, they aren't trusted for either cover or to help get a job done. Regardless of Sunday, this absolutely needs to be addressed in the summer.
 

freeurmind

weak willed
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Positives: Maguire and AWB have been ok. Bruno has been a massive upgrade on what we had. Martial and Rashford looked to have finally become top players and Greenwood is playing more regularly.

Negatives: The depth is awful. Not convinced by Matic. De Gea seems to have fallen off a cliff. The Manager seems unable to adapt during games.

We need another big summer of spending and to get rid of more of these players who seemingly aren't good enough.
 

cyberman

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The first half of the season was riddled with injuries as well. Look at the reaction to rotating 1 or 2 players for Leicester then realise we spent most of that first half without Bruno, Martial and Pogba in the side. Or Mason being further back in his development that he was half the player he is now. Plus Matic only remembering how good he was since January.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
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Also since we signed Bruno, our record is
Played 13
Wins 8
Draws 5
Goals scored 28
Goals against 7
Points 29

That's a 80+ points and 80+ goals season.

I added Bruno part as that was a significant change in our team, we had #10 who was productive rather than playing Pereira and Lingard.

We have done well in the second half of the season and even better since Bruno signed, he should learn from his mistakes, more importantly on how to rotate his team. Ole himself said he made a mistake of not rotating the team last season and he did the same mistake again this season. Hopefully we address this next season with better depth.
 

Relevated

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If you want to double 35 points then please also factor in all the games we could and should have won if not for mistakes and errors.
 

12OunceEpilogue

In perfect harmony
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This season swings on Bruno coming in and to a lesser extent Pogba returning and Ole finding that best XI who piled up a few good wins and kept the points column ticking over with an unbeaten run. It's clear as day we were not equipped to challenge at the top with the squad of players we had in the first half though Ole doesn't get a pass from me for the shambolic nature of some of the draws and defeats we suffered in that time. The squad was incomplete but was it worse than Palace's, Newcastle's, Bournemouth's and West Ham's, to the extent that those dreadful performances suggested?

Ole gets a tick this season if he manages top four, and the EL would be a fantastic bonus, but we need to see more progress next year. A couple of signings do look necessary, but I also want to see more from Ole in those tight games against lower opposition, where he and the team have failed over and over again this year.
 

#07

makes new threads with tweets in the OP
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
23,294
First 19 games
P 19 W7 D7 L5 F30 A23 GD+7 Points 28 (8th place)

Most recent 18 game
P 18 W10 D5 L3 F34 A13 GD+21 Points 35 (3rd place; 5 points behind City, 9 points behind Liverpool)

For me, deciding whether to retain a manager is about trajectory. And our trajectory looks good, despite recent wobbles. It's also good to see that we've done better than our CL rivals during this run. My only concern is the absolute points total. If you take the 35 points from our second half season performance and double it we wouldn't make top four in any of the previous three seasons, never mind getting anywhere near the top of the league. And that's not good at all.

Discuss.
Very much agree that we are on an upward trajectory, very much agree that Ole should not be held responsible even if we do not make the Champions League. You are right, the overall points total is poor. However, we have to contextualise it against the backdrop of the current season. Similar to when we won the title in 2010/11 with an unusually low amount of points.

Ole has made mistakes but, in the main, its hard to think of another manager who would have done much better given the circumstances. I think, most people agreed, our squad was thin going into the season. Everyone was worried about what would happen if we lost Pogba, Martial or Rashford. As it is we lost all of them for months at a time. The players we called on in their absence just weren't good enough to keep us competitive. That is not Ole's fault, its the fault of the administration of the club allowing its ranks to be filled with players who aren't good enough.

In the context of City's FFP shenanigans, Pep has taken to saying that the best teams need the best players and that's why they spend money. Despite him using this as a get out for City's sportswashing he's right. Even if Johan Cruyff was raised from the tomb like Lazarus to be Ole's replacement, he could not make Andreas into Michael Laudrup. With the tools available to him Ole has done well. When he had middling players we got middling results. When he had better players he got better results. Yes, managers are important, but there's a limit to how much impact they can really have. Klopp, for example, is a great manager (though it pains me to say it) but Klopp couldn't make Karius into Ederson or Lovren into Van Dijk. Sometimes you just need better players.

Our current struggles are down less to Ole and more to the physical and psychological strain on our first XI. Harry Maguire even admitted in his interview last night that they've pretty much not been training because they've had two days for recovery. People say Ole should rotate more. However, taking the players out that improved our second half of the season results would be relying on the players that got us our first half of the season results and expecting something wildly different to happen. That's close to the definition of madness.

In the main our squad is not good enough. We have a strong first XI and then, sadly, players who I am not sure would get into the squads of West Ham, Watford, Aston Villa, Bournemouth or Norwich. Long gone are the days when a Nicky Butt could leave United in search of game time and become central to Newcastle, or Phil Neville could leave United and become captain of Everton. Sides like Sheffield United and Burnley wouldn't have any need for an Andreas Pereira etc So its no surprise that we struggle against them when we don't have our very strongest players available.

That's not Ole's fault, that's the fault of the administration that's allowed this squad to be created. Regularly renewing the contracts of players who clearly aren't good enough on big wages, making any manager's job of freeing up budget for new signings who might be much more difficult.
 

bosnian_red

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Yeah points total is not good but its heavily influenced by a brutal January where Rashford got injured and we signed nobody until the last day. 3 losses, 1 draw in the FA Cup and 1 loss in the league cup that month to go with 1 league win, a couple of FA Cup wins and a league cup win.

And agree with the trajectory, generally its been good. I just don't think he's managed this month well, even though we've picked up the most points after lockdown. 6 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss in 10 games is alright, nothing special. Given the fixtures, should've at least been 1 of those draws being a win (yesterday).

Ole deserves some credit for getting us in a good position and with his squad building/player progression...but equally he will be firmly the reason if we feck it up due to how he managed the squad during this run.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
22,285
First 19 games
P 19 W7 D7 L5 F30 A23 GD+7 Points 28 (8th place)

Most recent 18 game
P 18 W10 D5 L3 F34 A13 GD+21 Points 35 (3rd place; 5 points behind City, 9 points behind Liverpool)

For me, deciding whether to retain a manager is about trajectory. And our trajectory looks good, despite recent wobbles. It's also good to see that we've done better than our CL rivals during this run. My only concern is the absolute points total. If you take the 35 points from our second half season performance and double it we wouldn't make top four in any of the previous three seasons, never mind getting anywhere near the top of the league. And that's not good at all.

Discuss.
My biggest concern is that we don’t react to adversity well at all. We had this before where we went on a good run under Solskjaer then as soon as we lost a game we went to absolute shite for months. We should’ve had a reaction to that God awful performance on Sunday but if anything actually were worse last night. Without the right signings I don’t see this trajectory improving at all. And 64 points definitely won’t be enough for top four next season.
 

Vault Dweller

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Very much agree that we are on an upward trajectory, very much agree that Ole should not be held responsible even if we do not make the Champions League. You are right, the overall points total is poor. However, we have to contextualise it against the backdrop of the current season. Similar to when we won the title in 2010/11 with an unusually low amount of points.

Ole has made mistakes but, in the main, its hard to think of another manager who would have done much better given the circumstances. I think, most people agreed, our squad was thin going into the season. Everyone was worried about what would happen if we lost Pogba, Martial or Rashford. As it is we lost all of them for months at a time. The players we called on in their absence just weren't good enough to keep us competitive. That is not Ole's fault, its the fault of the administration of the club allowing its ranks to be filled with players who aren't good enough.

In the context of City's FFP shenanigans, Pep has taken to saying that the best teams need the best players and that's why they spend money. Despite him using this as a get out for City's sportswashing he's right. Even if Johan Cruyff was raised from the tomb like Lazarus to be Ole's replacement, he could not make Andreas into Michael Laudrup. With the tools available to him Ole has done well. When he had middling players we got middling results. When he had better players he got better results. Yes, managers are important, but there's a limit to how much impact they can really have. Klopp, for example, is a great manager (though it pains me to say it) but Klopp couldn't make Karius into Ederson or Lovren into Van Dijk. Sometimes you just need better players.

Our current struggles are down less to Ole and more to the physical and psychological strain on our first XI. Harry Maguire even admitted in his interview last night that they've pretty much not been training because they've had two days for recovery. People say Ole should rotate more. However, taking the players out that improved our second half of the season results would be relying on the players that got us our first half of the season results and expecting something wildly different to happen. That's close to the definition of madness.

In the main our squad is not good enough. We have a strong first XI and then, sadly, players who I am not sure would get into the squads of West Ham, Watford, Aston Villa, Bournemouth or Norwich. Long gone are the days when a Nicky Butt could leave United in search of game time and become central to Newcastle, or Phil Neville could leave United and become captain of Everton. Sides like Sheffield United and Burnley wouldn't have any need for an Andreas Pereira etc So its no surprise that we struggle against them when we don't have our very strongest players available.

That's not Ole's fault, that's the fault of the administration that's allowed this squad to be created. Regularly renewing the contracts of players who clearly aren't good enough on big wages, making any manager's job of freeing up budget for new signings who might be much more difficult.
Great post, agreed.
 

red4ever 79

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Very much agree that we are on an upward trajectory, very much agree that Ole should not be held responsible even if we do not make the Champions League. You are right, the overall points total is poor. However, we have to contextualise it against the backdrop of the current season. Similar to when we won the title in 2010/11 with an unusually low amount of points.

Ole has made mistakes but, in the main, its hard to think of another manager who would have done much better given the circumstances. I think, most people agreed, our squad was thin going into the season. Everyone was worried about what would happen if we lost Pogba, Martial or Rashford. As it is we lost all of them for months at a time. The players we called on in their absence just weren't good enough to keep us competitive. That is not Ole's fault, its the fault of the administration of the club allowing its ranks to be filled with players who aren't good enough.

In the context of City's FFP shenanigans, Pep has taken to saying that the best teams need the best players and that's why they spend money. Despite him using this as a get out for City's sportswashing he's right. Even if Johan Cruyff was raised from the tomb like Lazarus to be Ole's replacement, he could not make Andreas into Michael Laudrup. With the tools available to him Ole has done well. When he had middling players we got middling results. When he had better players he got better results. Yes, managers are important, but there's a limit to how much impact they can really have. Klopp, for example, is a great manager (though it pains me to say it) but Klopp couldn't make Karius into Ederson or Lovren into Van Dijk. Sometimes you just need better players.

Our current struggles are down less to Ole and more to the physical and psychological strain on our first XI. Harry Maguire even admitted in his interview last night that they've pretty much not been training because they've had two days for recovery. People say Ole should rotate more. However, taking the players out that improved our second half of the season results would be relying on the players that got us our first half of the season results and expecting something wildly different to happen. That's close to the definition of madness.

In the main our squad is not good enough. We have a strong first XI and then, sadly, players who I am not sure would get into the squads of West Ham, Watford, Aston Villa, Bournemouth or Norwich. Long gone are the days when a Nicky Butt could leave United in search of game time and become central to Newcastle, or Phil Neville could leave United and become captain of Everton. Sides like Sheffield United and Burnley wouldn't have any need for an Andreas Pereira etc So its no surprise that we struggle against them when we don't have our very strongest players available.

That's not Ole's fault, that's the fault of the administration that's allowed this squad to be created. Regularly renewing the contracts of players who clearly aren't good enough on big wages, making any manager's job of freeing up budget for new signings who might be much more difficult.
Jesus
 

Massive Spanner

Give Mason Mount a chance!
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I'd agree for the most part but I do have legitimate concerns with our recent form because of last season and how awful our form got then once we went from a position of having very little expected to us to it actually being possible for us to achieve something. That's two very similar situations of great runs of form that ended with some terrible, lacklustre performances at the worst possible times. And, really, you have to put it at least partly on the manager for a (lack of) rotation policy that left our players in absolute bits for those crunch periods.

It's almost inconceivable that we're still potentially going to get top four with 64 points! Ole is incredibly lucky because in most other season's, even with our good run of form, we'd be languishing pretty badly right now.
 

MadMike

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Sep 16, 2015
Messages
11,609
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London
First 19 games
P 19 W7 D7 L5 F30 A23 GD+7 Points 28 (8th place)

Most recent 18 game
P 18 W10 D5 L3 F34 A13 GD+21 Points 35 (3rd place; 5 points behind City, 9 points behind Liverpool)

For me, deciding whether to retain a manager is about trajectory. And our trajectory looks good, despite recent wobbles. It's also good to see that we've done better than our CL rivals during this run. My only concern is the absolute points total. If you take the 35 points from our second half season performance and double it we wouldn't make top four in any of the previous three seasons, never mind getting anywhere near the top of the league. And that's not good at all.

Discuss.
Firstly, the league is getting much more competitive. Besides City and Liverpool who have set themselves apart these last few years, there's a bunch of really solid teams from 3rd down to 7th that can fight for top 4 (evident by the only 5 points gap between them), are very hard to beat and you're likely to drop points to through the season. And behind them in 8-12 there's clubs who aren't pushovers either. Until that changes I expect the points required to reach the top 4 to remain low, which is the opposite indicator from what people are thinking. It's not English teams being shite besides Liverpool and City, we can see that from European competitions too.

Secondly, this team isn't good enough to get near the top of the league considering the level the top of the league is at. Many starting XI players are sub-par, the depth is severely lacking and the manager is showing some limitations he needs to overcome. I don't think that's a surprise to anyone.
 

#07

makes new threads with tweets in the OP
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Why do you find this so objectionable? If I told you to run 100m in under 20 seconds but said for the first 50m one calf would be tied to the thigh on the same leg would you think that fair?

The club had the option to buy Bruno last summer. Sporting were, fairly obviously, briefing Portugese journalists every day saying he was available. The club didn't do it. The club saw us be pants for most of the winter. Saw us lose horrifically at Newcastle, making Longstaff look like Pavel Nedved, losing at Bournemouth and making Josh King look like Didier Drogba. The club still did nothing. We had to get beaten 2-0 at home by Burnley before the club finally decided to bring Fernandes in. Are you seriously going to blame that on Ole?

Are you seriously saying that when our options were Mata, who's long passed the pace of the Premier League and who should never have got a new contract, Andreas, who got a new contract based on a long shot against Southampton despite showing nothing here or on loan, and Lingard, who has fallen off the face of a cliff form wise, we should have been cruising to Champions League?

If we fail now it'll be because the squad isn't deep enough. That's not Ole's fault.
 

Bubz27

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If you take the 35 points from our second half season performance and double it we wouldn't make top four in any of the previous three seasons, never mind getting anywhere near the top of the league. And that's not good at all.
This is always a weird concept. Every season is relative.

Its like saying this Liverpool team is better than our treble team, or any Fergie team, because they got more points.
 

Pogue Mahone

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My biggest concern is that we don’t react to adversity well at all. We had this before where we went on a good run under Solskjaer then as soon as we lost a game we went to absolute shite for months. We should’ve had a reaction to that God awful performance on Sunday but if anything actually were worse last night. Without the right signings I don’t see this trajectory improving at all. And 64 points definitely won’t be enough for top four next season.
That’s my biggest concern too. Which means Sunday’s result to me has even more riding on it than CL qualification.
 

Pogue Mahone

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This is always a weird concept. Every season is relative.

Its like saying this Liverpool team is better than our treble team, or any Fergie team, because they got more points.
I actually think they’re worse, because everyone else got so few points! Basically United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs are all gash this season. Hence the likes of Leicester and Wolves are right up there in the mix with them. Fergie never had the luxury of so many rivals all being so far off the pace, all at the same time.
 

Web of Bissaka

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I'd say it's a season of three halves.
This.

What's your 3rd half/slice of the pie?

Mine
1. Mayhem 4231 (Aug to Dec) - even with Pogba playing, we just don't look convincing at all.
2. January Doom and Bruno messiah (Jan to Mac) - McT and then Rashford out, yup, our season is on downward spiral. Then came our savior!
3. Full Squad Restart (June to Aug) - Bruno momentum continues, having Rash and Pogba back are also crucial, Bruno are not the only one carry the team during this period. Signs of declining towards closing, bound to happen.
 

DomesticTadpole

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This.

What's your 3rd half/slice of the pie?

Mine
1. Mayhem 4231 (Aug to Dec) - even with Pogba playing, we just don't look convincing at all.
2. January Doom and Bruno messiah (Jan to Mac) - McT and then Rashford out, yup, our season is on downward spiral. Then came our savior!
3. Full Squad Restart (June to Aug) - Bruno momentum continues... and signs of declining towards closing, bound to happen.
Yep. Hopefully Sunday is the start of a great 4th half. CL qualification and EL win ( get in Pot 1), sign Sancho and numerous other world class players who make us unbeatable.
 

red4ever 79

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Why do you find this so objectionable? If I told you to run 100m in under 20 seconds but said for the first 50m one calf would be tied to the thigh on the same leg would you think that fair?

The club had the option to buy Bruno last summer. Sporting were, fairly obviously, briefing Portugese journalists every day saying he was available. The club didn't do it. The club saw us be pants for most of the winter. Saw us lose horrifically at Newcastle, making Longstaff look like Pavel Nedved, losing at Bournemouth and making Josh King look like Didier Drogba. The club still did nothing. We had to get beaten 2-0 at home by Burnley before the club finally decided to bring Fernandes in. Are you seriously going to blame that on Ole?

Are you seriously saying that when our options were Mata, who's long passed the pace of the Premier League and who should never have got a new contract, Andreas, who got a new contract based on a long shot against Southampton despite showing nothing here or on loan, and Lingard, who has fallen off the face of a cliff form wise, we should have been cruising to Champions League?

If we fail now it'll be because the squad isn't deep enough. That's not Ole's fault.
To say a manager is not in part responsible for where a team ends up is for me is questionable. I don't disagree with your comments about squad players not being good enough, we all can see it. I also do not think he was backed like he should have been by the board. However, he is responsible for the set up of the team,tactics and motivation and at times we have lacked. He is partly responsible for where we end up, of course he is.
 

#07

makes new threads with tweets in the OP
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To say a manager is not in part responsible for where a team ends up is for me is questionable. I don't disagree with your comments about squad players not being good enough, we all can see it. I also do not think he was backed like he should have been by the board. However, he is responsible for the set up of the team,tactics and motivation and at times we have lacked. He is partly responsible for where we end up, of course he is.
Of course he has a role but, at the end of the day, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Pep Guardiola inherited title winning players and had to spend the best part of a billion pounds to create a team that can play his preferred style.

I look at our squad and, beyond the first XI, I don't see players who would obviously start for Leicester or Wolves or Sheffield United. Frankly, even in the first XI. The likes of Neves and Ndidi would be nailed on starters for us this season. So why do we think that we will easily finish above them and that all Ole has to do is find the right tactics?

I am not saying the manager has no role but, to me, its mad to blame Ole if we don't get into the Champions League. With the players who were available for the majority of the season there were no clever tactics that were going to make things that much better.
 

Bubz27

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I actually think they’re worse, because everyone else got so few points! Basically United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs are all gash this season. Hence the likes of Leicester and Wolves are right up there in the mix with them. Fergie never had the luxury of so many rivals all being so far off the pace, all at the same time.
I get that. I'm with you. But my point is that it's difficult to compare seasons with points totals because they're relative to that season.

Hopefully we do enough to qualify for CL this year and if we do that with a power points total than in any other season or whatever, so what? This season it'll be enough.
 

mehro

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First 19 games
P 19 W7 D7 L5 F30 A23 GD+7 Points 28 (8th place)

Most recent 18 game
P 18 W10 D5 L3 F34 A13 GD+21 Points 35 (3rd place; 5 points behind City, 9 points behind Liverpool)

For me, deciding whether to retain a manager is about trajectory. And our trajectory looks good, despite recent wobbles. It's also good to see that we've done better than our CL rivals during this run. My only concern is the absolute points total. If you take the 35 points from our second half season performance and double it we wouldn't make top four in any of the previous three seasons, never mind getting anywhere near the top of the league. And that's not good at all.

Discuss.

You can go back to match day 10. Third place and 6 points behind city since then. Our start really screwed us.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/premier-league/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB1?saison_id=2019&min=10&max=38
 

red4ever 79

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Of course he has a role but, at the end of the day, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Pep Guardiola inherited title winning players and had to spend the best part of a billion pounds to create a team that can play his preferred style.

I look at our squad and, beyond the first XI, I don't see players who would obviously start for Leicester or Wolves or Sheffield United. Frankly, even in the first XI. The likes of Neves and Ndidi would be nailed on starters for us this season. So why do we think that we will easily finish above them and that all Ole has to do is find the right tactics?

I am not saying the manager has no role but, to me, its mad to blame Ole if we don't get into the Champions League. With the players who were available for the majority of the season there were no clever tactics that were going to make things that much better.
Beyond our first XI we are struggling right. Ed has to take some portion of the blame, the recruitment last summer was not good enough. Some of the players have at times this season let themselves down. It's a collective effort. For sure Ole will be here next season, Champions league or not.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Why do you find this so objectionable? If I told you to run 100m in under 20 seconds but said for the first 50m one calf would be tied to the thigh on the same leg would you think that fair?

The club had the option to buy Bruno last summer. Sporting were, fairly obviously, briefing Portugese journalists every day saying he was available. The club didn't do it. The club saw us be pants for most of the winter. Saw us lose horrifically at Newcastle, making Longstaff look like Pavel Nedved, losing at Bournemouth and making Josh King look like Didier Drogba. The club still did nothing. We had to get beaten 2-0 at home by Burnley before the club finally decided to bring Fernandes in. Are you seriously going to blame that on Ole?

Are you seriously saying that when our options were Mata, who's long passed the pace of the Premier League and who should never have got a new contract, Andreas, who got a new contract based on a long shot against Southampton despite showing nothing here or on loan, and Lingard, who has fallen off the face of a cliff form wise, we should have been cruising to Champions League?

If we fail now it'll be because the squad isn't deep enough. That's not Ole's fault.
While I understand mostly your previous posts and generally agree with you. Fair enough.

This one though.. you're confident Ole has no part in "stalling" the Bruno deal, and instead laying it all on the club that made the big decision. I think he's also the one that agree on not getting Bruno at that time.

We were building a more British-er team with our first 3 signings, and there were rumours about talks on getting other midfielders who are British (and interestingly playing more at CM than CAM), wouldn't surprise me at all if Bruno is down the 'players to get' list. We also finally settle on Bruno at the last minute late January only after the other candidates eg. Grealish, Maddison, etc are not available at all. Seriously why did Bruno joined late January instead of early January? Same case with Ighalo really, once King and Haaland are not joining.

Additionally, Lingard's sob story came around those time last year and wouldn't surprise me if Ole seriously thinks Lingard's position is CAM and he wanted to support him by giving him consistent gaming times (he has fondness with Lingard, developed at youth level), won't surprise me at all if he thinks Lingard should be the starter CAM (before finally realizehe's shit now and come to terms with it mid-season, Ole is quite stubborn).


Unfortunately we cannot confirm all this since no interviewers have dared to ask Ole and Ed about this (which is really odd).
"Why wasn't Bruno signed last summer?" <-- answers to this could've easily create huge headlines!
 

#07

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While I understand mostly your previous posts and generally agree with you. Fair enough.

This one though.. you're confident Ole has no part in "stalling" the Bruno deal, and instead laying it all on the club that made the big decision. I think he's also the one that agree on not getting Bruno at that time.

We were building a more British-er team with our first 3 signings, and there were rumours about talks on getting other midfielders who are British (and interestingly playing more at CM than CAM), wouldn't surprise me at all if Bruno is down the 'players to get' list. We also finally settle on Bruno at the last minute late January only after the other candidates eg. Grealish, Maddison, etc are not available at all. Seriously why did Bruno joined late January instead of early January? Same case with Ighalo really, once King and Haaland are not joining.

Additionally, Lingard's sob story came around those time last year and wouldn't surprise me if Ole seriously thinks Lingard's position is CAM and he wanted to support him by giving him consistent gaming times (he has fondness with Lingard, developed at youth level), won't surprise me at all if he thinks Lingard should be the starter CAM (before finally realizehe's shit now and come to terms with it mid-season, Ole is quite stubborn).


Unfortunately we cannot confirm all this since no interviewers have dared to ask Ole and Ed about this (which is really odd).
"Why wasn't Bruno signed last summer?" <-- answers to this could've easily create huge headlines!
Mate, Ole has already admitted publicly that the money for Bruno came out of this summer's transfer budget: https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ter-united-fernandes-summer-transfer-17665534

Our failure to sign him earlier is not because Norway is not in the EU and Ole's pro-Brexit. We didn't sign him earlier because the club was refusing to spend what's needed to improve the squad. Also, the fact the club took the Bruno money out of this summer's budget means we shouldn't be surprised if we don't improve the squad much before next season. Don't be shocked if the size of the owner's dividend remains unaffected though.

The last minute scrambling for players shouldn't shock you. Its been a trend for the last seven years, going all the way back to the supposed 'imposters' turning up to pay Ander Herrera's release clause at the Spanish FA. Every transfer window there's a saga with United as the club does its utmost to spend as little as possible despite needing the club to remain strong to protect its revenue.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Also since we signed Bruno, our record is
Played 13
Wins 8
Draws 5
Goals scored 28
Goals against 7
Points 29

That's a 80+ points and 80+ goals season.

I added Bruno part as that was a significant change in our team, we had #10 who was productive rather than playing Pereira and Lingard.

We have done well in the second half of the season and even better since Bruno signed, he should learn from his mistakes, more importantly on how to rotate his team. Ole himself said he made a mistake of not rotating the team last season and he did the same mistake again this season. Hopefully we address this next season with better depth.
Except it doesn't always works that way though. Rarely does any player last their form for whole season, should James maintain his early form after his first 6 games throughout the season, he will be among top scorer and top assist in the league.
 

roonster09

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Except it doesn't always works that way though. Rarely does any player last their form for whole season, should James maintain his early form after his first 6 games throughout the season, he will be among top scorer and top assist in the league.
I missed the part where I said next season it will be the repeat of same and we will score 80+ goals and points.
 

Leonzo1

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The Bruno factor is evident to see, also you can see what a criminal decision it was not to replace Lukaku last summer, because there is no getting away from the fact the form and performances in the first half of the season could cost us this seaon. I will reserve judgement until after next Sunday, the performance the last few games look like they are falling away at a crucial time. Top 4 is a must and good recruitment in the summer is a must.
What? This is simply not true. The criminal decision was not to sign Bruno and start the season with Lingard and Pereira as the #10's.
The problem was creating chances not finishing them. Look I criticize Ole as much as the next guy but the decision not to splash cash on some random forward and put some faith In Martial Rashford and Mason was spot on. Ole got ridiculed for believing that those 3 can produce numbers consistently yet he was bang on the money. Mason alone scored as much as lukaku scored last season not to mention the huge improvement in Martial's and Rahford's numbers. Very Ballsy decision from Ole, credit where credit is due.
 

AneRu

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What? This is simply not true. The criminal decision was not to sign Bruno and start the season with Lingard and Pereira as the #10's.
The problem was creating chances not finishing them. Look I criticize Ole as much as the next guy but the decision not to splash cash on some random forward and put some faith In Martial Rashford and Mason was spot on. Ole got ridiculed for believing that those 3 can produce numbers consistently yet he was bang on the money. Mason alone scored as much as lukaku scored last season not to mention the huge improvement in Martial's and Rahford's numbers. Very Ballsy decision from Ole, credit where credit is due.
I agree with this. The difference between the first half and the second half is down to the gulf between Fernandes and Lingard/Pereira in the No.10 role. Whoever allowed the situation whereby we went into the season without him when we clearly wanted him is to blame, the fight for top four wouldn't have been this close if we had him from August.
 

Fingeredmouse

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While I understand mostly your previous posts and generally agree with you. Fair enough.

This one though.. you're confident Ole has no part in "stalling" the Bruno deal, and instead laying it all on the club that made the big decision. I think he's also the one that agree on not getting Bruno at that time.

We were building a more British-er team with our first 3 signings, and there were rumours about talks on getting other midfielders who are British (and interestingly playing more at CM than CAM), wouldn't surprise me at all if Bruno is down the 'players to get' list. We also finally settle on Bruno at the last minute late January only after the other candidates eg. Grealish, Maddison, etc are not available at all. Seriously why did Bruno joined late January instead of early January? Same case with Ighalo really, once King and Haaland are not joining.

Additionally, Lingard's sob story came around those time last year and wouldn't surprise me if Ole seriously thinks Lingard's position is CAM and he wanted to support him by giving him consistent gaming times (he has fondness with Lingard, developed at youth level), won't surprise me at all if he thinks Lingard should be the starter CAM (before finally realizehe's shit now and come to terms with it mid-season, Ole is quite stubborn).


Unfortunately we cannot confirm all this since no interviewers have dared to ask Ole and Ed about this (which is really odd).
"Why wasn't Bruno signed last summer?" <-- answers to this could've easily create huge headlines!
This is absolute conjecture.
 

Havak

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Some good posts here, particularly the 'since Bruno' and 'last 28 league games'.

53 points from 28 is decent. It'll be interesting to come back to this after the Leicester game and first nine matches of next season to arguably best judge us over 38 games at the moment. If we do the right transfer business again, it's very possible we could be an 80+ point side in the near future. Of course, I'd say we're far more likely to finish somewhere in the 70's no matter what, but that would be a good improvement over most seasons gone by. We've only reached 70+ twice since Sir Alex retired.

Unfortunately, I think you need 90 to win the title for the foreseeable future. I'm not sure if we're going to be a team that can throw enough wins together to get that kind of points total, so I think if we win the title it will be when other teams all fail to hit this target in the same year. This will surely come around at some point as there have been many occasions where sub-90 was enough, but at the moment I feel like at least one team will manage to do this per season (it has happened for the last four in a row).
 

Web of Bissaka

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Mate, Ole has already admitted publicly that the money for Bruno came out of this summer's transfer budget: https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ter-united-fernandes-summer-transfer-17665534

Our failure to sign him earlier is not because Norway is not in the EU and Ole's pro-Brexit. We didn't sign him earlier because the club was refusing to spend what's needed to improve the squad. Also, the fact the club took the Bruno money out of this summer's budget means we shouldn't be surprised if we don't improve the squad much before next season. Don't be shocked if the size of the owner's dividend remains unaffected though.

The last minute scrambling for players shouldn't shock you. Its been a trend for the last seven years, going all the way back to the supposed 'imposters' turning up to pay Ander Herrera's release clause at the Spanish FA. Every transfer window there's a saga with United as the club does its utmost to spend as little as possible despite needing the club to remain strong to protect its revenue.
I've read that article properly.
Doesn't sound like that's what Ole meant. He basically said signings and expenditures affected next window budgets, so it's not exclusive to only Bruno's fee. The earlier 3 signings also affected upcoming summer's budget. Reasonable by Ole although the interviewers could have have specify the question more.

Still do not answer the question why we did not sign Bruno last year.

Okay, I can see you're really confident in what you believe in regards to the Ole and club stances on Bruno, so this can only go one way - agree to disagree. Cheers.

It's not always though. Depends on which players. Every transfers have their own stories and context. While generally our club teams are slow in finalizing deals, the Bruno one is seemingly last minute - United offered a price (overpriced immediately) which Sporting more than willing to accept, 20m more than what we could get. That doesn't show any indication at all the two clubs are in negotiation.
 

Web of Bissaka

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This is absolute conjecture.
Absolute?
Yeah it's conjecture, based from reasoning.

Hence I put the sentences there at the end if only all of this can be confirmed.

It doesn't make sense we did not get Bruno last year.

If you say it's because the club did not want to spend money on Bruno last year, then that's also conjecture.
Looking at past records of transfers every season (except 3 seasons for understandable reasons), we have been consistently spending about 150m (transfers in minus money gained from transfer outs), so there should be more than enough budget to spend more yet we didn't.
 

red4ever 79

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What? This is simply not true. The criminal decision was not to sign Bruno and start the season with Lingard and Pereira as the #10's.
The problem was creating chances not finishing them. Look I criticize Ole as much as the next guy but the decision not to splash cash on some random forward and put some faith In Martial Rashford and Mason was spot on. Ole got ridiculed for believing that those 3 can produce numbers consistently yet he was bang on the money. Mason alone scored as much as lukaku scored last season not to mention the huge improvement in Martial's and Rahford's numbers. Very Ballsy decision from Ole, credit where credit is due.
Looks like you didnt watch the start of the season when Martial was injured and then later Rashford was out. Lightweight up front contributed to not scoring enough goals particularly prior to Xmas