A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

InLevyITrust

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Bullshit. It was only when we reached the SF, when we started sacrificing the league. Before that, there was no intention on Jose's part.

Spurs fans turning their nose over the Europa League is funny for a club which has won zero trophies. Sit down.

Actually one Spurs fan only, not all.
What? Am I the one fan? Where do you want me to sit down? I dont get the hostility TBH but each to there own.
 

Varun

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I'm not disagreeing. Just adding my 2cents.

Imho with a tight top 6 vying for top 4 too many factors would play into the equation.

Harry kane injury, lukaku mistakes against city, kane last minute goals, etc.

The margin of finishing 2nd and 4th is so slim it's hard to say indefinitely next year things are going to be the same.
Ah okay, Yes, I agree with you. The top 5/6 teams are too close to really be confident in saying how it'll go next year. Thinking about it, this would have been the most epic of title challenges had City not gone into Hulk mode.
 

Greck

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Yeah, all of this is a silly argument. Just like whichever poster stating that Spurs would definitely win the Europa, as they are beating stronger teams in the CL is a silly point. Just like the person stating categorically that Jose would win things with the Spurs team is dumb, in my opinion.
Agree. It really dilutes the quality of debates to use unprovable hypothetical fantasies as 'evidence'
 

Varun

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What? Am I the one fan? Where do you want me to sit down? I dont get the hostility TBH but each to there own.
Pfft, if "A" Spurs fan gets shit, just assume its Glaston by default and you're golden. There's no one quite like him.
 

Andersons Dietician

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Once again, the wages issue is hugely exaggerated by opposition fans who just look at basic pay. What they either ignore or don't know is that Spurs operate the most generous bonus system in the Prem.

This has the added advantage that it provides big incentives to play well. And the players who tend to benefit most from this are the better players - those so coveted by so many other teams.
I’d like to hear more on this as last I heard the bonus system is what is used to expand Harry Kane’s wages to the 150k with him getting a basic 90k or whatever with easily attainable bonuses. That was last year I read that but are there hidden bonus payments that bump his wage to say 300k a week as surely that would be the minimum he would get moving to the likes of United, PSG and Real.

Personally I don’t think he’d leave right now anyway, why would he unless he really needs that extra cash.
 

breakout67

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Not sure what you're disagreeing with there. Yes, it could go either way. The only point being made was that its too soon to say Poch should definitely have won something with this Spurs team because the team has been at this level for too short a time.
I disagree, Football moves on very quickly. Spurs had a fantastic opportunity to win the league in 15/16 when all the rich teams under performed. When you look at all the prestigious managers in the world they had a defining part of their career which is usually 2-3 years of winning lots of things.

Atletico Madrid went to two CL finals in few years, they are probably going to have to wait decades to get to that level again. Arsenal peaked in the modern game with the CL final, they are probably going to have a 20 year wait of more to win the league.

Very rarely do you have more than 2-3 years to take your opportunity in football. Especially as the game has become more short sighted.
 

Boycott

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Why does Poch get all the credit for all the relative recent success? Tottenham was a club which was already flirting with Champions league football under Harry and they were always in the top 6 or there about.

The biggest difference I see is the change in transfer policy of the club which has helped Poch achieve the results. I always remember Tottenham as a bit of feeder club to the other top clubs. They would buy the bargain talent from all over the world, develope them, get some decent results and than sell them off for a big profit. The biggest examples I can remember are Berbatov, Bale and Modric. I am sure there must have been other transfers as well. What we have seen in last few years is that Daniel Levy has been more patient and avoided selling their best talents perhaps due to upcoming stadium expansion and also to make it a competive club.

I am not trying to belittle Poch's achievments. But I do believe people are ignoring other finer details. In the end football is all about trophies though. In few years time unless Tottenham goes on to bigger things and win few trophies, no one is going to remember 'almost there' achievements for past few years.
Tottenham fans will.

Speak to the older Reds who saw Tommy Docherty's Utd. Books have been written about that era. Players like Macari, Hill, Buchan, the Greenhoff's, Coppell are in Utd folklore. Do you know what happened in that era? Relegation and one FA Cup (which prevented Liverpool winning the treble). But those fans witnessed wonderful attacking football, young players, players who were in tune with the support and which had it not been for the Doc's misconduct, would have won the league title.

Football is not all about winning. When you feel like you're witnessing something special - the football on show, the atmosphere, the culture - you gladly pay your money to enjoy the moment. Reminiscing can happen later.
 

Varun

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I disagree, Football moves on very quickly. Spurs had a fantastic opportunity to win the league in 15/16 when all the rich teams under performed. When you look at all the prestigious managers in the world they had a defining part of their career which is usually 2-3 years of winning lots of things.

Atletico Madrid went to two CL finals in few years, they are probably going to have to wait decades to get to that level again. Arsenal peaked in the modern game with the CL final, they are probably going to have a 20 year wait of more to win the league.

Very rarely do you have more than 2-3 years to take your opportunity in football. Especially as the game has become more short sighted.
Again, why are you so certain that the last 2 years were the defining 2-3 yr opportunity for Pochettino and he wont have it again? Even the 15-16 season that you're on about is only because they actually came 2nd. Did anyone expect a Spurs title challenge when the season had started? Even if it was the case, being able to cite just 1 season as an example should really tell you that its too soon to judge.
 

Sky1981

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Well said, lots of very good sides are well remembered even when they didn’t win trophies. I can think of Keegan’s Newcastle, very fondly remembered even though they were nearly men.

For me it’s Brazil ‘82, absolutely wonderful side, the best in the world for me, even though Italy knocked them out (Zico, Falcao, Socrates, Eder, Junior). Amazing.
Also
As a Liverpool fan, I have very fond memories of our 2009 league runners up. Mascherano, Gerrard, Torres, Hyypia, Carra’, Alonso, Reina. 86 points and second only to an awesomely good United side.

This thing about ‘they’ll be forgotten unless they win something’ Is just disingenuous. People remember good teams whether they win or not.
Eh... nobody remember your 2009 team. We'll most of us remember, for the wrong reason that is.
 

Xcited

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Once again, the wages issue is hugely exaggerated by opposition fans who just look at basic pay. What they either ignore or don't know is that Spurs operate the most generous bonus system in the Prem.

This has the added advantage that it provides big incentives to play well. And the players who tend to benefit most from this are the better players - those so coveted by so many other teams.
I was unaware of that to be fair. However it is a still a valid point to make. There is a large number of players who could make more money elsewhere. The bonus scheme, it is surely not so superior to other clubs to compensate for the difference in wages they could receive elsewhere.
 

ivaldo

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Out of curiosity, what is the bonus scheme @GlastonSpur at Spurs? I’ve seen a few articles allude to it but none that give any real indication of structure/reward.
 

beycont

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There are clubs out there like PSG or Bayern where any clown can rack up a trophy haul. He was guaranted to win trophies this season if swapped Spurs for PSG last summer but the sign of a great manager is one who'll say no to a much bigger club where he can win trophies in his sleep in order to stay and finish a building job at a club with very limited spending power. I think it's outrageous that you think a club like Spurs should be winning trophies in England when you consider the spending power of City, Utd and Chelsea and to a lesser extent Liverpool and Arsenal. Long gone are the days clubs like Spurs, West Ham and Everton can expect to win FA cups every couple of years.
But dont you think the next step in his progression as a manager, after building a team like Spurs, is to win a trophy? That seems like a natural progression of any manager at a big club.
 

Champagne Football

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But dont you think the next step in his progression as a manager, after building a team like Spurs, is to win a trophy? That seems like a natural progression of any manager at a big club.
For sure. Easy trophies at PSG or hard grafted and much more rewarding potential trophies if he sticks at it with Spurs. Depends what he is personally motivated by. All managers are motivated by different things
 

Jamie L

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Eh... nobody remember your 2009 team. We'll most of us remember, for the wrong reason that is.
Eh? Exactly which is why I cited that as being ‘for me’, as in something ‘I’ remember rather than the other two examples which are more universal.
 

Sky1981

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Eh? Exactly which is why I cited that as being ‘for me’, as in something ‘I’ remember rather than the other two examples which are more universal.
Yeah fair play.

Although as a man united fans that's quite hilariously instant karmic
 

Sky1981

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For sure. Easy trophies at PSG or hard grafted and much more rewarding potential trophies if he sticks at it with Spurs. Depends what he is personally motivated by. All managers are motivated by different things
Funny thing is if he won it with spurs many years from now people will say he got lucky he got once in a lifetime golden generation with spurs.

Lol.
 

Champagne Football

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Funny thing is if he won it with spurs many years from now people will say he got lucky he got once in a lifetime golden generation with spurs.

Lol.
Who knows. Could be himself and Moyes living out their days as pundits on Qatar TV one day discussing what might have been had Kane not been sold that time and if Ed had signed Ronaldo and Bale instead of Fellaini and Mata ;)
 
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Out of curiosity, what is the bonus scheme @GlastonSpur at Spurs? I’ve seen a few articles allude to it but none that give any real indication of structure/reward.
I think the players get a lot performance related bonuses, appearances, goals, assists etc. I think most clubs have this, but Spurs wage structure seems more based around it.

I would imagine Kane has a lot of bonuses related to the amount of goals he scores and if he wins the golden boot etc
 

hellohello

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I think the players get a lot performance related bonuses, appearances, goals, assists etc. I think most clubs have this, but Spurs wage structure seems more based around it.

I would imagine Kane has a lot of bonuses related to the amount of goals he scores and if he wins the golden boot etc
I'm not a fan of personal performance related bonuses, but more bonuses depending on league positions, how far the team go in competitions and how many games you play etc. It's not healthy for the club if a player get more money if he score rather than play to the best of his ability to win the match imo.

edit: you may be right, I have no idea what the bonus system might be.
 

ivaldo

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I think the players get a lot performance related bonuses, appearances, goals, assists etc. I think most clubs have this, but Spurs wage structure seems more based around it.

I would imagine Kane has a lot of bonuses related to the amount of goals he scores and if he wins the golden boot etc
Aye, was just interested if anyone had some figures around it.
 

breakout67

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Again, why are you so certain that the last 2 years were the defining 2-3 yr opportunity for Pochettino and he wont have it again? Even the 15-16 season that you're on about is only because they actually came 2nd. Did anyone expect a Spurs title challenge when the season had started? Even if it was the case, being able to cite just 1 season as an example should really tell you that its too soon to judge.
I'm not certain, I've said multiple times that he has every opportunity to become a great manager. i've even said that I'd be interested in seeing him try his hand at a club with more money so he can show his quality.

My posts are usually written in contrast to some posts that consider him some sort of elite manager; that is destined for greatness. I consider him a good up and coming manager and that's about it. The more he wins, the more highly I will think of him.
 

Jamie L

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Schooled by Allegri tonight? 2nd half seemed too open when they had a cushion in the tie
I wonder if it’s a bit of a squad depth thing too, because they didn’t seem to have much in the tank to hit back with.

I’m not certain on this but I get the impression that they don’t rotate as much as other sides. They seem to have a core 11-13 players.
 

breakout67

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Tactical adjustments late again...he's done this so many times. He doesn't recognize when a game is going against them, his subs when the game is going out of hand are almost always late.
 

Sky1981

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I'm not certain, I've said multiple times that he has every opportunity to become a great manager. i've even said that I'd be interested in seeing him try his hand at a club with more money so he can show his quality.

My posts are usually written in contrast to some posts that consider him some sort of elite manager; that is destined for greatness. I consider him a good up and coming manager and that's about it. The more he wins, the more highly I will think of him.
All elite manager doesnt need money to show their class. Yes at one point money talks, but most of the household names have been great long before they're trusted with the warchest.
 

Mciahel Goodman

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An impressive manager to even have Spurs in this position where they're competitive against one of Europe's elite sides in performance terms over the last five years.
 

sincher

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He was slow to react to the Juve changes tonight. Better match management and they would be through.
 

haram

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Things really should have tightened up after 1-0 knowing Juve needed 2 goals. Instead they let in 2 in 2 mins.
 

sunama

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Spurs were the better side over the two legs, and should have won this. Not sure what else you can ask of him.
Every time Poch gets knocked out of a competition, there is an excuse.
At elite level (pro) sport, excuses count for nothing. Winning is everything.
Until Poch wins, he won't be ready to move to a big club and should remain at Spurs.

This is why Jose is categorised as a serial winner. He understands the concept of winning and knows how to win.

For all the plaudits Spurs and LFC get, they won nothing last season, while Jose won us 2 trophies. Fair player to Pep - this season he stepped his game up.