A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

Bobcat

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But even in that leicester fairy tale season Poch had his best ever chance to take the title and failed. You probably think I hate on him but quite the opposite I think Poch is a good manager but if you watch Tottenham play now which I'm sure you already do there are clear warning signs there. Hypothetically let's say we hired him. We would all accept top 4 his first season but after that most would say he should be able to go for the title. Thats the problem he's never proven he can. Would we just want him to stay here for years finishing 4th and then have a meltdown like now?
That's my concern as well. It often gets brought up that he has taken Spurs into the top 4 with very limited investment, which is true, but that is only half of the story. That Tottenham squad has some really, really good players in it, and unless Poch scouts and makes all those deals himself, he does not really deserve all the credit because investment does not equal quality.

Kane, Son, Eriksen, Alderweireld/Verthongen, Alli and probably more could walk straight into out first XI and improve us immensely. Meanwhile we have squandered nearly a fecking billion since 2013, and what do we have to show for it? Pogba?

Despite lack of funds, Tottenham has a really good squad and i feel like Poch should have won something in his time there, even if it just was a Micky Mouse trophy
 

Yagami

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Shows how far we have fallen.
To be fair, I wanted Poch to succeed Fergie (assuming Pep was unattainable). Regardless of us being at the top in 2013, or where we are currently, I've always felt Poch would be a great choice to manage Manchester United, personally.
 

Halftrack

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Yea because finished 2nd on multiple occasions doesn’t equate to being a top team. If Spurs finished like that pre-Poch then you would have an argument. Regardless, the Norwegian league is different than the premier league. Comparing the capabilities of a manager in that league is not even worth the time as Ole is showcasing right now.
In the eight seasons before Ole's appointment, Molde finished outside the lower half of the table once, I've explained this to you before. But just like with Spur's finishes before Poch's appointment, you ignore it because it doesn't suit your narrative.

Besides, I wasn't comparing anything, I was highlighting your double-standards. One second place finish in a sea of lower-half finishes (including a relegation): top team. Consistently finishing between 4th and 6th: Mid-table. To anyone with even half a brain, that's broken logic.
 

Amadaeus

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In the eight seasons before Ole's appointment, Molde finished outside the lower half of the table once, I've explained this to you before. But just like with Spur's finishes before Poch's appointment, you ignore it because it doesn't suit your narrative.

Besides, I wasn't comparing anything, I was highlighting your double-standards. One second place finish in a sea of lower-half finishes (including a relegation): top team. Consistently finishing between 4th and 6th: Mid-table. To anyone with even half a brain, that's broken logic.
Just because a team finish in the lower half of the table, doesn’t make them no longer a top team, in particular if that team has finished 2nd before. It is like saying that Manchester United is no longer a top team because we have finished mid table in Europa League position similar to Spurs pre Poch. Or Chelsea is no longer a top team with that said criteria as well. That applies to Molde. They just had appointed wrong manager and things were not going there way. No double standard here.
 

Halftrack

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Just because a team finish in the lower half of the table, doesn’t make them no longer a top team, in particular if that team has finished 2nd before. It is like saying that Manchester United is no longer a top team because we have finished mid table in Europa League position similar to Spurs pre Poch. Or Chelsea is no longer a top team with that said criteria as well. That applies to Molde. They just had appointed wrong manager and things were not going there way. No double standard here.
You literally don't know what you're talking about, and I suggest you stop pretending to. Claiming they were a top side is akin to claiming Newcastle is a top side because they had some good finishes in the 90s. Actually, it isn't akin to, it's exactly the same as.

What's extra hilarious is that you made the original claim thinking Ole's two title wins weren't his, and that his second stint was his only stint. When corrected, instead of doing what a normal person would do and admitting to your mistake, you doubled down. Luckily for you, you found a second place finish a couple of seasons before Ole's appointment, and a string of decent results from a decade or more before. Despite Norwegians who follow the league telling you that Molde were never a top side, you now knew more than them about the league they've been following for years. It actually baffles me that you're able to sit there and tell me, a Norwegian with knowledge of the league, that you know better than me based on having looked at a couple of league tables from years ago. Your arrogance is as astounding as it is off-putting, and it's no wonder you've become a laughingstock.
 

Amadaeus

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You literally don't know what you're talking about, and I suggest you stop pretending to. Claiming they were a top side is akin to claiming Newcastle is a top side because they had some good finishes in the 90s. Actually, it isn't akin to, it's exactly the same as.

What's extra hilarious is that you made the original claim thinking Ole's two title wins weren't his, and that his second stint was his only stint. When corrected, instead of doing what a normal person would do and admitting to your mistake, you doubled down. Luckily for you, you found a second place finish a couple of seasons before Ole's appointment, and a string of decent results from a decade or more before. Despite Norwegians who follow the league telling you that Molde were never a top side, you now knew more than them about the league they've been following for years. It actually baffles me that you're able to sit there and tell me, a Norwegian with knowledge of the league, that you know better than me based on having looked at a couple of league tables from years ago. Your arrogance is as astounding as it is off-putting, and it's no wonder you've become a laughingstock.
Not really, Molde didn’t finish second that far ago, so it is nothing a like. That argument seems to have really affected you, where I was proven right about Ole’s capability as a manager. As is the norm, I was proven right and things Ole accomplished in that league is irrelevant to how well he will be able to do in a more competitive league. For a person who doesn’t watch the Norwegian league, I corrected myself and used the factual data at my disposal to make you understand that Ole managerial capabilities can not be accurately judge in that league. It was never a case of my perception changing, I remained consistent and the fact that you still bring up that old argument means you are trying to find justification in being wrong.
 

dwd

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How? It’s just like Klopp and Dortmund. Both have gone as far as they can and it’s got stale. Would you have rejected Klopp then?
Pochettino isn’t Klopp. He’s won feck all.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Pochettino isn’t Klopp. He’s won feck all.
He’s not, but I don’t think the situations are too different. Both are good managers (albeit klopp is clearly better) but their situation had become a little stale at their respective clubs.
 

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Klopp would have not done that in the premier league. I had this argument before and I made several key points towards how Bayern poor form contributed to Klopp accomplishments in that league. One point of many was how Dortmund went out in the group stage and all they had to do was fight for the league title, while Bayern was more focused on the champions league. I would be more impressed if Klopp did what he did with Dortmund with a club like Spurs in the premier league. Only example of this was leceister fairy tail season(or Pochettino champions league final run) and many believed that that season was a lucky one(moreover Poch champions league final).
You do know that it wasn't just Bayern that Dortmund where competing with those years right? Bayer Leverkusen, Schalke, VFL.. where all teams who they had to compete with to win those titles. It wasn't a straight fight with Bayern. BVB won those leagues with a team that cost a pittance to put together, while they where being outspent by many teams, not just Bayern, it was a fantastic achievement.

To try and downplay what he did with Dortmund in those years is churlish. Although I know why you do it. Fight Poch's corner all you want, that's cool. But don't downplay what Klopp did to suit your agenda (and yep, I'll fight his corner as well).
 

RooneyLegend

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This man has won nothing. He couldn't even win against Leicester when they had more quality than them. He has one great league season in the middle of seasons where what he's done was previously par for the course(look at the points totals).

He doesnt really have a defined attacking system. Really, all he does is get his team to press which alot of coaches do, what separates those from the Peps and Klopps is how defined their teams are attacking. He's just not the guy we need.
 

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As I said couple of weeks ago. People are overrating what Pochettino has done for Spurs. He has been good for Spurs and he took them a step further but that step was not that big. Look at the squad he had when he first arrived. Look at table couple of years before he came. Spurs were not a bad team. They were very good and finished 4-6 in table. Not bad considering strenght of other top teams. Good manager? Absolutly. But I'll stop there before saying world class or top manager. 0 trophies.
this is something overlooked a lot with Pochettino.

People love to make a big deal of his lack of spending (although he has actually spent a fair bit!), but what is glossed over, is that he already had a lot of the pieces needed for his team, so the rebuild was far less than it would be at a lot of clubs. Imagine the job he'd have had on without some of the major pieces aleady being in place. He already had Lloris, Vertonghen, Rose, Eriksen, Dembele and Walker, players who'd play significant roles for him, as well as Ali and Kane already being at the club, with Kane having broken into the first team late the previous season. Plus they added Dier and Davies that summer. The biggest transfer work he had to do those first couple windows was actually clearing out players surplus to requirements from a bloated squad.

Yes, I am sure Poch helped improve many of these players, but these where already good players, and yes, he is a good coach, goes without saying, but sometimes I get the feeling the hype is slightly larger than is should be.

IF he went to United, my question would be - would you be confident he could master a rebuild of the squad? I know you have good pieces in place, but most United fans here seem to be of the opinion that to compete with City and Liverpool and in the CL they need to strengthen significantly.
 

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Albeit I do think Ole is a promising manager and his United side had a visible style (especially in some of his first matches at the club), I simply cannot fathom him succeeding due to the fact that there has been very little trust in his abilities as a coach and that everyone expects him to fail. United is still in a better situation that Pool was 4 years ago, but there is significantly more pressure to compete and even with 200-300m, you'd need 2 seasons at the very least to rebuild the squad to be competitive. Poch is obviously a very good manager, but he also has been extremely fortunate to inherit someone like Kane who is a 200m striker. I think United would do better with someone with a bolder philosophy like Tuchel or Nagelsmann. I don't even necessarily think they'd be more successful in terms of points/trophies than Poch, but they are very good managers to instill a certain style to a club on which their successors can build on.
 
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Che Guevara

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I wouldn't be surprised if Mourinho joins Spurs and Poch goes to United. Stranger things have happened in football. But it would be interesting to hear the views of the respective supporters on that possibility. Jose would most likely have considered returning to United, but his nemesis Pogba is still there and United have no intention to let him go, and the structures and personnel who kicked Jose out are still firmly in place.
 

dwd

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He’s not, but I don’t think the situations are too different. Both are good managers (albeit klopp is clearly better) but their situation had become a little stale at their respective clubs.
I'm still scarred from the last manager we brought in went stale at his previous club, and he was a proven winner too.
 

USREDEVIL

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I really doubt Spurs will go after Mourinho considering his style and his antics. And I also doubt Mourinho will go to Spurs. He probably thinks he's above them. PSG maybe.
 

jeff gurr

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I really doubt Spurs will go after Mourinho considering his style and his antics. And I also doubt Mourinho will go to Spurs. He probably thinks he's above them. PSG maybe.
Levy and Mourinho would be a train wreck, i would love to watch it unfold but can't see it happening. Jose has limited the clubs he will grace with his presence but I would love for him to give it a go at Everton.
 

buckooo1978

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can you imagine the fireworks between Daniel Levy and Mourinho over transfer budget

it would be war played out in the media

I cant see Mourinho at Spurs but then again maybe Jose will need to concede that he needs to change to get a job. The chances of him getting another job where he is backed to the hilt are slim.
 

always_hoping

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Spurs on their longest run without an away league win since a club-record 14 games under George Graham between 2000-01.

Level on 13 points with United after 11 games also highlights how far they have regressed under Poch.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Spurs on their longest run without an away league win since a club-record 14 games under George Graham between 2000-01.

Level on 13 points with United after 11 games also highlights how far they have regressed under Poch.
:lol:

But we must be careful what we wish for! What would we do without this managerial genius.
 

RuudTom83

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Poch is getting into his "united-form" before he's even joined the club! What a Pro!
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Latest poll on the fighting cock (our forum) has 84.3% of people voting that they want him out.
 

cjj

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Latest poll on the fighting cock (our forum) has 84.3% of people voting that they want him out.
Meanwhile, on a non-volatile forum that isn't purely for people that have been banned from every other spurs forum, it's 60% stay vs 40% go (Spurs Community)
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Meanwhile, on a non-volatile forum that isn't purely for people that have been banned from every other spurs forum, it's 60% stay vs 40% go (Spurs Community)

When was it last updated? Because everywhere I’ve seen was heavily Poch in until very recently (including fighting cock) but since the last couple of results the tide has turned.

Seems to me the penny is dropping..
 

SATA

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Do we still want him looking at his struggles at Spurs now? To be fair, i’m still convinced he’ll turn it around as long as he selects the right players in his XI. He’s too a good coach not to
 

Suvvernmanc

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My dad, my brother and 2 of my closest friends who are all match going Spurs fans all want Poch out. Their gripes are that his matchday squad selections are always heavily rotated and not the best available for the game at hand. Also that his substitutions are sometimes negative and not one that would obviously change the game plus the best performing players get benched for his 'favourites'.

I feel very conflicted about him as he has obviously got spurs playing good football and is a great coach but his flaws seems to be coming to a head now. Many of the players want out and they are playing well below there normal standards. I would be very disappointed to see him him come to UTD.